The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

What's your line, "this thread isn't about me"?

When you insist on talking about yourself as somebody above everyone else then you open yourself to criticism.
You say you respect others choices but you do nothing but promote your choice while denigrating the choice of others.
You are perfectly entitled to do it, but don't pretend it is something it ain't.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When you insist on talking about yourself as somebody above everyone else then you open yourself to criticism.
You say you respect others choices but you do nothing but promote your choice while denigrating the choice of others.
You are perfectly entitled to do it, but don't pretend it is something it ain't.

Exactly, yet you use that line anyway.

Yes I promote my choice, depressing and all as it is because I so strongly disagree with those who have chosen to vote for SF. Maybe saying I respect their choice is a bit far to cut you some slack but I do definitely understand it.

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Exactly, yet you use that line anyway.

Yes I promote my choice, depressing and all as it is because I so strongly disagree with those who have chosen to vote for SF. Maybe saying I respect their choice is a bit far to cut you some slack but I do definitely understand it.

QED

jm08

christy c wrote: »

Speaking of propaganda, we had Pearse (to be fair just probably badly informed) saying Ireland was bottom of the table for vaccines. It was pointed out to him and on this thread that he was wrong yet we still had people saying he was right. Minor I know but same as Kevin Spacey, not likely to swing any votes.

My view would be that we go for the same until we see a better alternative, and at the moment I do not see that in SF. And if it is bad change, I certainly do not want to "bring it on".

Do you have a link to where and when Doherty said that. We may be doing well now, but Ireland was very slow out of the blocks to start off with.

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We also had highest infection rates in world and the vaccine rollout is decending into a bigger and bigger farce everyday.....its no wonder no senior government member is attaching their reputation to it

I was referring to Pearse saying blatantly false information about being bottom of the list, yet the propaganda here was that he was right. I'm not getting in to debating the vaccine rollout (aside from saying we were definitely not bottom of the list), but there is some good information on the COVID vaccine thread. Better discuss there than here

christy c

jm08 wrote: »

Do you have a link to where and when Doherty said that. We may be doing well now, but Ireland was very slow out of the blocks to start off with.

To be clear, he said bottom of the EU list. Around the 17 minute mark:

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21891935

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

why arent we top of the list??

We had 80K doses at one stage and only 15K vaccinated....can you gauramtee ffg wont fcuk up and see us miss the 21 & 28 day intervals,like is happening in the north.....but covered up the BBC?

Its disappointing the vaccine rollout is so slow,hopefully they can meet their augest target of anyone,who wants one,will have one

We are top of the list, or at least were a couple of days ago. Happy? Take it to the COVID thread would be my recommendation.

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Honestly didnt know this ,credit where its due.....now to keep it up.....and try and stretch out in front and be first to finish line

Yep, would honestly recommend the COVID vaccine thread. In general you get good discussion and not much of the politically motivated stuff we get here (including from myself).

Good night

jm08

christy c wrote: »

To be clear, he said bottom of the EU list. Around the 17 minute mark:

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21891935

And when he said that, he was right (according to what he said there in early January).


He was actually corrected by the woman who provided the latest figures which had not been published up to then which put Ireland around the middle of the EU League.


So in short, you are probably a poor listener or you deliberately tried to spin it hoping no one would ask you for a link to what he actually said.

Bubbaclaus

jm08 wrote: »

And when he said that, he was right (according to what he said there in early January).


He was actually corrected by the woman who provided the latest figures which had not been published up to then which put Ireland around the middle of the EU League.


So in short, you are probably a poor listener or you deliberately tried to spin it hoping no one would ask you for a link to what he actually said.

I haven't listened to the interview, but if he actually said we were bottom then he was never right. The Netherlands didn't even do their first vaccination until 9 days after our first one (so literally impossible for us to be bottom) and we had more vaccinations done than our 3 nearest EU neighbours France, Netherlands and Belgium combined early on at the time when everyone was mouth foaming.

As someone mentioned above, the vaccination thread in the coronavirus forum is a good place for all the facts, as it is away from all the political point scoring (in all directions).

jm08

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I haven't listened to the interview, but if he actually said we were bottom then he was never right. The Netherlands didn't even do their first vaccination until 9 days after our first one (so literally impossible for us to be bottom) and we had more vaccinations done than our 3 nearest EU neighbours France, Netherlands and Belgium combined early on at the time when everyone was mouth foaming.

As someone mentioned above, the vaccination thread in the coronavirus forum is a good place for all the facts, as it is away from all the political point scoring (in all directions).

I think you should actually listen to what and how he said it. The discussion was really around how Ireland was so poorly prepared to start the vaccination which meant we were in the bottom of the EU League where upon he was immediately corrected that in fact we were now in the middle of the league. It wasn't a big scoring point, the discussion was more about the administration of the vaccine and how prepared we were to do vaccination. The comments he made have been taken out of context and spun into a much bigger deal than they actually were. Just remember the initial claim was that Doherty claimed that Ireland had the worst vaccination rate in the world and it was only corrected when I asked for a link to where he said that.

christy c

jm08 wrote: »

I think you should actually listen to what and how he said it. The discussion was really around how Ireland was so poorly prepared to start the vaccination which meant we were in the bottom of the EU League where upon he was immediately corrected that in fact we were now in the middle of the league. It wasn't a big scoring point, the discussion was more about the administration of the vaccine and how prepared we were to do vaccination. The comments he made have been taken out of context and spun into a much bigger deal than they actually were. Just remember the initial claim was that Doherty claimed that Ireland had the worst vaccination rate in the world and it was only corrected when I asked for a link to where he said that.

"When we do measure ourselves against our European partners, unfortunately we are at the bottom of the list in relation to the amount of the population that has been vaccinated". He even accepted the correction himself yet I am the one that is spinning?

piplip87

The absolute hypocrisy by SF and their supporters is clear for all to see again. Letting ideology get in the of homes getting built time & time again. Themselves and PBP shoukd hang their heads in shame.

The number of times the majority of each party's councillors voted against a motion for housing development since June 2019.

PBP 19
Sinn Fein 16,
Social Democrats 12
Fianna Fail 2
Greens 2
Labour 2
Fine Geal 1

We have a serious crisis regarding homes getting built. The fact that they are not the right type of homes for the misery merchants is irrelevant at this stage. Its fairly clear to see the left are against home ownership and will object to any development thay will see people owning homes.

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Whats point in building homes,if people cant afford them,or are un suitable for families to live in.......seems commonsense to me?


Its long since time to cop on and put families first and not line the pockets of establishment landlords and builders,the market wont sort itself,as evident here with unsitable housing being proposed,let state finally step up and build what needed......liberialism is a failure,stop pretending its ever going to work

These lads like holding up developments and for political gain so they can go on TV and Dail and spout about the Govts housing failures.
Absolute hypocrites as the prior post said.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

These lads like holding up developments and for political gain so they can go on TV and Dail and spout about the Govts housing failures.
Absolute hypocrites as the prior post said.

Or there are those who are trying to force through unsuitable housing for financial gain.

Given our history and given the amount of vested interests in this field in our Dáil and local politics I wonder what the chances are?

Until we have detailed breakdown of why developments are being objected to, we won't know. I'll keep an open mind on it myself.

Building to cause even bigger problems down the line or to line pockets is not the answer either.

piplip87

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Whats point in building homes,if people cant afford them,or are un suitable for families to live in.......seems commonsense to me?


Its long since time to cop on and put families first and not line the pockets of establishment landlords and builders,the market wont sort itself,as evident here with unsitable housing being proposed,let state finally step up and build what needed......liberialism is a failure,stop pretending its ever going to work

Increasing supply of homes been built is the best way to lower prices. May I also add all these developments will have to compulsory social housing attached too.

We have a housing crisis which affects every person in this state who is trying to buy a home. What SF & PBP want is only for the social housing crisis to be solved. Which is a joke.

Let developers build private homes. In doing this more people will buy, which means more people will leave rental accommodation and it will free up units for those who wish to rent.

Let the state provide social houses to those in need.

SF and PBP are objecting based on ideology alone which is wrong

jm08

christy c wrote: »

"When we do measure ourselves against our European partners, unfortunately we are at the bottom of the list in relation to the amount of the population that has been vaccinated". He even accepted the correction himself yet I am the one that is spinning?

What spinning? I said he was corrected at the time he made the comment that Ireland was in the middle of the league. He accepted the correction (saying that it wasn't good enough to be at the middle of the league either). The thrust of the debate was that Ireland could have been better prepared to start vaccination than it was.

christy c

jm08 wrote: »

What spinning? I said he was corrected at the time he made the comment that Ireland was in the middle of the league. He accepted the correction (saying that it wasn't good enough to be at the middle of the league either). The thrust of the debate was that Ireland could have been better prepared to start vaccination than it was.

You said i was a poor listener or that I was trying to spin .

If you are acknowledging that Pearse incorrectly said (twice) that we were bottom of the EU table then fine. He was 100% wrong in that and acknowledged it himself.

FreudianSlippers

Deleted User wrote: »

This is agreed,it was the other ffg brainfart,to bail out banks,another brainfart,which ultimately proved liberialism deosnt work,and markets dont solve emself....but ffg persisit with this dogma in relation to housing situation here....why??

I'll agree to disagree,the social collaspe and fall in living standreds,werent enough to me,to justify nama and its 100K a year wages to failed FFG linked property developers....surely the fact they went broke,should raise qs on their management skills and make em getting 100K a year a disgrace

Deleted User wrote: »

They said austrity would delay recovery and was destroying the society aspect of the country...this is near universairly accepted internationally?

To my eyes,short of developing a time machine,this is as close to been proven right as it can be

How much extra econmic activity was raised/improved by slashing the minimum.wage??

The poorest 20% suffered 80% of cuts/drops in living standred during last recession iirc

FFG have sold yous a lie about what.they got upto,in last recession(and you admit they will cause another)...the imf even admit many of the bailout austrity was too much,but yet noone in irish media,nor establishment holds em to account or asks any basic qs on this

,plan from establishment for next deep recession is to just bury heads in sand,repeat old mistakes and sneer at shinners for daring to point out the obvious....

Deleted User wrote: »

Eire is ireland?

The imf man,overseeing it here admitted the level of austrity was a mistake, (google tells me,there is 47 mins read time in those links,you reply in less than 10...tells me all i need on supplying links here)

Liberialism deosnt stand up to real world scurtiny,nor challenges,its a failure and the continued obsession with irish political and media with it,will again in diaster,and they'll still sneer at anyone who points this out......how many times has there been a "crash" in eire since 1960....surely at this point,its time to stop making excuses,and admit it,same as communism, deosnt work in practice

Can you gauramtee us 100% FFG policies and the eurozone will not suffer another collaspe,or recession in next 20 years???

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/we-were-wrong-imf-report-details-the-damage-of-austerity-11533

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/27/austerity-policies-do-more-harm-than-good-imf-study-concludes

In relation to eire
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/austerity-only-policy-for-ireland-was-a-mistake-admits-former-imf-chief-866012-Apr2013/%3famp=1

In sound,for those unwilling to read (i think its the man,that headed up the imf "mission" here,hope he is offial enough!!)
https://m.soundcloud.com/morning-ireland/austerity-was-a-mistake-says/reposts

Greece (generally regarded as worst case)

https://www.bruegel.org/2015/04/the-imfs-big-greek-mistake/

www.economics.utoronto.ca › ...PDF
IMF admits: We failed to realise the damage austerity would do to Greece

Admission to needing debt restructuring (remember syriza being laughed at for pointing this out years previously)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22791248

Will i continue,remember rte and irish media and political establishment still sneer at those who pointed out the obvious at the time

Deleted User wrote: »

Was under impression thomas pringle was agreeing with em?

Thing about avoiding austrity is....im old enough to remember everyone in irish establishment sneering at doherty and the shinners for being a lone voice and saying it was wrong move and wouldnt work (called econmic illterates iirc).........the imf years later admitted it was a flawed and ultimately failed policy in the post 08 "crash".......austrity isnt coming iiregardless of who is taoiseach

SF voter demographic is indicator,they havnt missed anything and will only grow/harden imo.....its time to consolidate what they have and agitate on local/parish pump issues to flow votes towards soc dems,pbp etc

You can buy gold too dear,any rise in percentage above 32% will lead to fall off in outside transfers and tbh there is no irish political party with the abundance of talent to capitalise on such figures as in theory that should return upto 3 seats in a 4 seater.......enda kenny and FG managed similar outcome in mayo at one stage,but FG vote is collasping in the west now afaik

Deleted User wrote: »

The imf literally said fiscal austrity post 08 was a mistake :pac:

Its been shown time and again in studies to been so??

Looks to me,like rest of liberialism,once it comes under scrutiny,it deosnt stand up to examination.....100 odd billion between banks and NAMA and it was u23 people on the dole was the real issue which ffg tackled

We remain the only country in the world,who slashed the minimum wage to try and reactivate the econmy......we're doing same easy soft measures on low paid workers to reopen with covid,with diastorous results,only this time resulting in deaths

Just because you keep repeating the same nonsense doesn't make it true. It's funny you mention "econmic illterates" [sic] because your posts on the subject are, and I'm being generous here, the guy in the pub with a rake of pints in him. At its very best you have a complete revisionist history of the bank bailout and Ireland's options at the time, at worst no grasp of economics let alone government funding and market economies.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or there are those who are trying to force through unsuitable housing for financial gain.

Given our history and given the amount of vested interests in this field in our Dáil and local politics I wonder what the chances are?

Until we have detailed breakdown of why developments are being objected to, we won't know. I'll keep an open mind on it myself.

Building to cause even bigger problems down the line or to line pockets is not the answer either.

Spurious conspiracy theories alleging criminal behaviour without a shred of evidence.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Spurious conspiracy theories alleging criminal behaviour without a shred of evidence.

Yes...never happened before in this country did it? 'Gimme loads of Sterling!'.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...never happened before in this country did it? 'Gimme loads of Sterling!'.

If you have evidence, please present to the Gardai, otherwise you are besmirching the good name of people. Those are the standards you claim to expect of others, apply them to yourself.

FreudianSlippers

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...never happened before in this country did it? 'Gimme loads of Sterling!'.

I can't decide whether this is correlative fallacy or affirming the consequent.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If you have evidence, please present to the Gardai, otherwise you are besmirching the good name of people. Those are the standards you claim to expect of others, apply them to yourself.

If I have evidence it happened before and MAY be the case here?

Can certainly fulfil that criteria...where do you wish to start?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If I have evidence it happened before and MAY be the case here?

Can certainly fulfil that criteria...where do you wish to start?

Nearest Police Station would be good.

FreudianSlippers

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If I have evidence it happened before and MAY be the case here?

Can certainly fulfil that criteria...where do you wish to start?

So it's pure unfounded speculation. Got it.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nearest Police Station would be good.

It's full of guys and gals wondering why there has been no hangings on foot of their allegations.

Whenever you guys and gals get together the reasons why these developments were objected to and we can study them, hit us up.
Until them I will continue to keep a open mind and wonder the reasons why based on past experience.

FrancieBrady

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So it's pure unfounded speculation. Got it.

No, FS, speculation based on past facts.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's full of guys and gals wondering why there has been no hangings on foot of their allegations.

Whenever you guys and gals get together the reasons why these developments were objected to and we can study them, hit us up.
Until them I will continue to keep a open mind and wonder the reasons why based on past experience.

Well maybe you could keep an open mind on Gerry Adams being a member of the Army Council then, because there is a lot more evidence of that, than of the nonsense you are peddling.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Well maybe you could keep an open mind on Gerry Adams being a member of the Army Council then, because there is a lot more evidence of that, than of the nonsense you are peddling.

Not sure how many times I have told you 'I don't know whether he was or not'.

The very model of a major open mind blanch.

FG councillors caught red handed taking money for planning favours, numerous cases of planning abuses in the history of the state etc etc etc trumps unproved allegations of membership of the IRA.