The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

europe are in the right here as regards us being a tax haven imo

And if they can’t prove this claim, or we defend it properly, you still be anti us on it and pro them?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

europe are in the right here as regards us being a tax haven imo

So you want to see thousands of Irish people out of jobs?

walshb

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely, and have said so on more than one occaision.

So you’re even more anti everything govt than SF. They only abstained😅

FrancieBrady

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

We have our rate set. Europe want to change our rates without our agreement. What else would you call it?
Do you agree that Europe should not be allowed change our tax rates?

Please call it by it's proper name - The EU.

We are the EU, there is no overarching sinister poer wihin it that 'dictates' to anyone. There are however differing opinions and some want us to harmonise our rate in line with the rest of the EU. They als don't want us to be a haven for corporations to avoid paying their fair share.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

And if they can’t prove this claim, or we defend it properly, you still be anti us on it and pro them?

Im not anti/pro anyone,relax....companies are using our laws/country to avoid paying tax elsewhere

To my eyes,this is a tax haven anyway...be it legal to do so or not,is irrelevant,its still a tax haven.....quite why this comes as suprise to.anyone is beyond me,seems like a commonsense conclusion

CrazyFather1

This is interesting.
As I said on the government thread after the pandemic the people of Ireland should go to election. If this is the stance Sinn Fein and supporters are taking then I don't expect them to get into government.
Sinn Fein if anything I would have said are mildly anti-Europe but to actually go and side with Europe against the people of Ireland is a disgrace.

FrancieBrady

walshb wrote: »

So you’re even more anti everything govt than SF. They only abstained😅

I am not anti-everthing walshb, please stop ranting.
I am against us being a tax haven, I am for everyone paying a fair share.

walshb

They only sided with Europe (by abstaining and not backing us) here because it was against us/elected govt.

Same with the treaties. They didn’t side with Europe then, because Ireland were with Europe on Lisbon..

Troublemakers..

FrancieBrady

walshb wrote: »

They only sided with Europe (by abstaining and not backing us) here because it was against us/elected govt.

Same with the treaties. They didn’t side with Europe then, because Ireland were with Europe on Lisbon..

Troublemakers..

Do you think, everyne who profits from business in Ireland/EU should pay their fair share?

If not, can you provide us with a list of those who should be given a pass?

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

where anywhere have i said or implied this??

Nearly sure,ive pointed this plot hole out to yous already,

But in siding here with Europe, these are the potential ramifications..so you are pretty much okay with this prospect..

FrancieBrady

walshb wrote: »

But in siding here with Europe, these are the potential ramifications..so you are pretty much okay with this prospect..

It's the EU, and they didn't side with the EU, they sided with those of the same opinion in the EU.

Jesus, the rants.

walshb

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you think, everyne who profits from business in Ireland/EU should pay their fair share?

If not, can you provide us with a list of those who should be given a pass?

Fair share?

And what is that? Some agreed figure among everyone..

Utter nonsense. You’re anti everything govt are. Plain and simple..

And will defend those who are the same...

walshb

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's the EU, and they didn't side with the EU, they sided with those of the same opinion in the EU.

Jesus, the rants.

The ramifications for Ireland here..

Not sure what your post is on about..

CrazyFather1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you think, everyne who profits from business in Ireland/EU should pay their fair share?

If not, can you provide us with a list of those who should be given a pass?

I don't care what the EU does. It can have a tax rate of whatever. I am only concerned about Ireland and what Ireland does.
Europe should never have the ability to tell us what our tax rate is
Do you agree or disagree?

FrancieBrady

walshb wrote: »

Fair share?

And what is that? Some agreed figure among everyone..

Utter nonsense. You’re anti everything govt are. Plain and simple..

And will defend those who are the same...

I'm not actually, there is a whole raft of things the 'government' do I have zero issue with.

Don't let that stop your rants though.


DO YOU believe that anyone in business should pay their fair share?...simple yes or no answer.

FrancieBrady

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I don't care what the EU does. It can have a tax rate of whatever. I am only concerned about Ireland and what Ireland does.
Europe should never have the ability to tell us what our tax rate is
Do you agree or disagree?

The EU patently don't have the 'ability' to tell us what our tax rate should be. Stop please.

walshb

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm not actually, there is a whole raft of things the 'government' do I have zero issue with.

Don't let that stop your rants though.


DO YOU believe that anyone in business should pay their fair share?...simple yes or no answer.

Everyone should pay and contribute to society fairly

Now, let’s see your detailed breakdown on those not abiding by “fair.”

Another thing: do you think incentives have any place anywhere in society? Even if for a potential greater good..

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

europe in this instance is correct as regards us being a tax haven??
Little point in shouting into the dark,critising something i inherently agree with as a commonsense read of situation


Nowhere have i said im ok with this prospect,but realistically we as a state,do need to move away from over relience on FDI as eventually this harmonisation will come to pass,be that 15,20 years time it will happen (same as wealth taxes,will happen in our lifetimes)..

Its mind-boggling that the irish establishment would scream abuse and accuse others of wanting mass unemployment,while making from i can ascertain zero preparations for this eventuality

Do you think Europe should be able to dictate to Ireland what our tax rates are?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont,but what i think is irrelevant really..

its eventually going to come to pass anyway (along with wealth taxes,this wealth inequality wont last/be accepted forever)...

...its a one-way road,lads thinking it isnt,are same as lads railing againest immigration,

Undoubtfully believe in their position,but are going to be left behind.....this harmonisation of the corp tax,also represents oppurtunities to us....the fact noone in any party has any interest in grasping this nettle as regards the obvious risk to the econmy is an indictment of what emerges to the top in irish politics

What are you talking about? its a huge difference if we vote in different taxes as the people of Ireland and Europe telling us what tax we have to introduce. Do you not think?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

Im being obtuse or anything,but im genuinely not sure,what your asking here


My view,is that ultimately long term,this corp tax harmonisation is going to happen anyway

Europe already tells us about tax rate,afaik VRT is fined on a weekly/monthly basis for being illegal.......not 100% sure,but nearly sure the imputus for the carbon tax also come from europe??





Should all the parties of ireland come together to work ahead of obvious upcoming risks to our econmy and reduce our relience upon FDI??

Or will we do,as always,wait until it blows up in our face,and then blame someone else for failing the 6 P's(in this case likely be the eu)

Why is the corporate tax harmonisation going to happen? Please explain because at the moment Ireland & Apple are fighting hard in court to stop this happening.

FrancieBrady

walshb wrote: »

Everyone should pay and contribute to society fairly

Now, let’s see your detailed breakdown on those not abiding by “fair.”

Another thing: do you think incentives have any place anywhere in society? Even if for a potential greater good..

Yes I do think incentives have a place but not ones that can be abused and I believe these have.
Which covers your question on those 'not abiding by fair'

jm08

Tax harmonisation isn't the real challenge (it won't happen other than maybe there will be a lower rate of CT like about 8% that member states won't be allowed go below). The real challenge is the digital tax and where it is going to be taxed. That could kill us.


For the record, the issue with the Apple Tax is about illegal State Aid, not corporate tax. Apple effectively were paying about 2% tax rather than the declared 12.5%. Funnily enough, if everyone was levied the same, the EU wouldn't have a problem.

RandomViewer

jm08 wrote: »

Tax harmonisation isn't the real challenge (it won't happen other than maybe there will be a lower rate of CT like about 8% that member states won't be allowed go below). The real challenge is the digital tax and where it is going to be taxed. That could kill us.


For the record, the issue with the Apple Tax is about illegal State Aid, not corporate tax. Apple effectively were paying about 2% tax rather than the declared 12.5%. Funnily enough, if everyone was levied the same, the EU wouldn't have a problem.

More likely be18%, we are an outlier compared to most of Europe
https://taxfoundation.org/2020-corporate-tax-rates-in-europe/#:~:text=Portugal%20and%20Germany%20follow%2C%20at,tax%20rate%20of%2021.9%20percent.

tipptom

All these FDIs and our government are involved in is legalised corruption.

Ireland needs a brave government to start slowly weaning Ireland of the teat of these leech corporations and prepare for alternative investments if they decide to desert to another tax haven or are forced back to their homeland

This is going to happen anyway and Ireland will not be prepared for it.

Its embarrassing all the incentives these obscenely wealthy companies are given at the expense of Irish SMEs and ministers running to airports to genuflect to directors when they arrive here and laws of the land thrown out the window for them.
They are then allowed to hive off their tax free money while the government of the day lies through their teeth about what they are letting them away with,all to ensure that government get that valuable tranche of votes at the next election.
The workers that are precariously employed by these companies who could do a runner at any time if they get better incentive and tax avoidance by some other bananna republic are the pawns in this for power,greed,tax avoidence and votes

Dont agree with a lot of EU rules and interference but in this case they are spot on

jm08

RandomViewer wrote: »

More likely be18%, we are an outlier compared to most of Europe
https://taxfoundation.org/2020-corporate-tax-rates-in-europe/#:~:text=Portugal%20and%20Germany%20follow%2C%20at,tax%20rate%20of%2021.9%20percent.

Look, the Netherlands have a CT rate of 25%. That doesn't seem to stop them attracting a whole lot of companies (like Netflix etc) to be tax resident there. If you think any EU country is going to transfer that competence to the EU of setting tax rates, you are in dream land. Hungary has a tax rate of 9%. They sure are not going to be told by the EU Commission what their tax rate should be.

Brendan Bendar

tipptom wrote: »

All these FDIs and our government are involved in is legalised corruption.

Ireland needs a brave government to start slowly weaning Ireland of the teat of these leech corporations and prepare for alternative investments if they decide to desert to another tax haven or are forced back to their homeland

This is going to happen anyway and Ireland will not be prepared for it.

Its embarrassing all the incentives these obscenely wealthy companies are given at the expense of Irish SMEs and ministers running to airports to genuflect to directors when they arrive here and laws of the land thrown out the window for them.
They are then allowed to hive off their tax free money while the government of the day lies through their teeth about what they are letting them away with,all to ensure that government get that valuable tranche of votes at the next election.
The workers that are precariously employed by these companies who could do a runner at any time if they get better incentive and tax avoidance by some other bananna republic are the pawns in this for power,greed,tax avoidence and votes

Dont agree with a lot of EU rules and interference but in this case they are spot on

Yes, spot on.

Then we can concentrate on our car manufacturing industry, our aircraft building industry, our development of the huge natural reserves of oil, gas,copper, uranium and other precious metals we have.

We can expand and market the value added goods we produce that other countries are eager to buy and our weapons and armaments industry is surely going to expand expedentionally.

We of course can tell those multis to take a hike as the advantage of having a well educated, intelligent workforce is no use to us, we have all the other advantages that other countries have and we don’t need hundreds of thousands of our citizens in well paid secure jobs.

We are well able to take care of ourselves.........:rolleyes:

tipptom

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Yes, spot on.

Then we can concentrate on our car manufacturing industry, our aircraft building industry, our development of the huge natural reserves of oil, gas,copper, uranium and other precious metals we have.

We can expand and market the value added goods we produce that other countries are eager to buy and our weapons and armaments industry is surely going to expand expedentionally.

We of course can tell those multis to take a hike as the advantage of having a well educated, intelligent workforce is no use to us, we have all the other advantages that other countries have and we don’t need hundreds of thousands of our citizens in well paid secure jobs.

We are well able to take care of ourselves.........:rolleyes:

No Bender,let them just pay some sort of a half fair tax like the rest of us or is that to much to ask?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats a bit of a rude and unnecessarly sneering reply.....the lad is simply pointing out,that our over relience on FDI has potential to end in diaster


The truth is ffg are in-tow to these corporations,(rightly or wrongy depending on ones viewpoint).....gdp went up in ireland last year,despite whole sections of the econmy shutdown,on the back of FDI .......

surely this is an indictator,if needed,that our gdp is not closely related to whats happening in the econmy in vast areas of the country.....and that any large scale correction etc in the balance by europe,could wipe us out nearly overnight??


We will end up like the uk,where a v.healthy finicial services sector papered over huge cracks and faults in its econmy and unfolding social issues caused by it....if we persue and continue to shout down people pointing out our over relience on FDI.

I find it strange the hatred some people have over the American companies and the people who work for them. All the comments online about jumped up people working for google etc.

I don't work for any of them and probably never will but I have friends and family who work for them and make good money. I also have farmer friends who make decent money supplying companies that run canteens etc.

People complain because they can't get a job, now you are complaining because according to you people don't have the right job? what is that about?

tipptom

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I find it strange the hatred some people have over the American companies and the people who work for them. All the comments online about jumped up people working for google etc.

I don't work for any of them and probably never will but I have friends and family who work for them and make good money. I also have farmer friends who make decent money supplying companies that run canteens etc.

People complain because they can't get a job, now you are complaining because according to you people don't have the right job? what is that about?

All anyone wants is that they pay some sort of a fair tax in this country,you object to that?

Brendan Bendar

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I find it strange the hatred some people have over the American companies and the people who work for them. All the comments online about jumped up people working for google etc.

I don't work for any of them and probably never will but I have friends and family who work for them and make good money. I also have farmer friends who make decent money supplying companies that run canteens etc.

People complain because they can't get a job, now you are complaining because according to you people don't have the right job? what is that about?

Coooooorect and right.