The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

CrazyFather1

tipptom wrote: »

All anyone wants is that they pay some sort of a fair tax in this country,you object to that?

Well that is not true if you read the thread because according to some people on here we should be throwing away these companies and the jobs they bring because they are the wrong sort of job
Also the 0.05% which is quoted is from 2015. What have these companies paid since then?

I object to Europe telling Ireland what our tax rates have to be, do you think Europe should be allowed to dictate to Ireland?

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats a bit of a rude and unnecessarly sneering reply.....the lad is simply pointing out,that our over relience on FDI has potential to end in diaster


The truth is ffg are in-tow to these corporations,(rightly or wrongy depending on ones viewpoint).....gdp went up in ireland last year,despite whole sections of the econmy shutdown,on the back of FDI .......

surely this is an indictator,if needed,that our gdp is not closely related to whats happening in the econmy in vast areas of the country.....and that any large scale correction etc in the balance by europe,could wipe us out nearly overnight??


We will end up like the uk,where a v.healthy finicial services sector papered over huge cracks and faults in its econmy and unfolding social issues caused by it....if we persue and continue to shout down people pointing out our over relience on FDI.

Unfortunately it’s correct ,dude.

RandomViewer

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I find it strange the hatred some people have over the American companies and the people who work for them. All the comments online about jumped up people working for google etc.

I don't work for any of them and probably never will but I have friends and family who work for them and make good money. I also have farmer friends who make decent money supplying companies that run canteens etc.

People complain because they can't get a job, now you are complaining because according to you people don't have the right job? what is that about?

I think one of the issues is that if you count up all the grant aid and tax breaks, the free buildings and zero rates it probably would be cheaper just to pay the staff dole,

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont have any hatred for them,indifference really....feel we are over dependant on FDI,and long term,this is unsustainble,and personally dont feel its apirational either


I know people working for some,that place in kildare,like its undoubted they pay top dollar,google makes circa 1.4m profit per employee afaik.....but what yous are doing whether intentional or not is identical to whats gone on in uk over last 30 or so years,pointing at a sucessful area which is ultimately papering over cracks in rest of economy......

the us stock exchange is still rising,despite record levels of homelessness,and food bank usage,something has gone badly amiss,for this to be both ok,and regarded as a success.



I am not complaining anywhere about people getting a job in multinationals,nowhere is this even implied,its the government/liberials pretending all is rosy here due to rising gdp,while entire area of econmy and society in ruins.....i dont think econmic success at expense of social conditions and ethics should be regarded as success

Sorry but you are all over the place. Homelessness in the US and the US stock exchange have what to do with Europe dictating to Ireland our tax rate?

I don't see anyone saying it is all rosy here, but I don't see why you would think having mass unemployment is some sort of fix? what do you think it was great in the 70/80s when nobody had a job or any money? the only option was to travel to US/UK and look for work?
As someone else pointed out Ireland is not a manufacturing country and we will never be able to compete with China, we do not have natural resources like Norway. We are not connected to Europe at the moment(unless we build a tunnel which we can't afford), we are an island. So please explain to me what jobs are going to replace the ones you want to dump into Europe?

CrazyFather1

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think one of the issues is that if you count up all the grant aid and tax breaks, the free buildings and zero rates it probably would be cheaper just to pay the staff dole,

Would love some data to back this statement up please.

CrazyFather1

From what I can find the loop hole is more or less closed: https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40197759.html

So all this talk of 0.05% tax is 6 years out of date, unless someone can confirm otherwise?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

Where anywhere have i proposed mass unemployment?

Where anywhere have i proposed dumping jobs to europe??


Yous are just sulking as your not liking,what you seeing here....we are too relient on FDI,this could be eventually wiped out and noone in irish establishment is allowed to speak up,or point this out....otherewise they are met with childish hysterical nonsense and accused of wanting to send jobs to europe :pac: ....

and the conversation is shut down and everyone pretends this can continue indefinetly (it cant btw)




Do you think our level of relience on FDI is good,aspirational or should we begin the process of building up.the local econmy to protect from what are obvious medium term risks to us??

According to everything I can see the loop holes are now shut. The companies are paying tax as they are supposed to.

So do you still support Sinn Fein in letting Europe dictate to Ireland what our taxes should be?

If you can come up with an alternative to multi nationals which will generate over 21% of our income tax I am all ears, I am sure the whole of Ireland would be interested as well.

FrancieBrady

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Well that is not true if you read the thread because according to some people on here we should be throwing away these companies and the jobs they bring because they are the wrong sort of job
Also the 0.05% which is quoted is from 2015. What have these companies paid since then?

I object to Europe telling Ireland what our tax rates have to be, do you think Europe should be allowed to dictate to Ireland?

IF you mean the EU perhaps you should elect an MEP to object?
SF MEPs are elected, they are doing their jobs as elected reps, if they aren't they won't be elected. Simple.

CrazyFather1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

IF you mean the EU perhaps you should elect an MEP to object?
SF MEPs are elected, they are doing their jobs as elected reps, if they aren't they won't be elected. Simple.

So you agree that Europe should be allowed to dictate to Ireland what our tax should be?

FrancieBrady

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

So you agree that Europe should be allowed to dictate to Ireland what our tax should be?

I am refusing to engage with somebody who won't call it what it is - The EU.

Which doesn't 'dictate' anything, if it did we would not be choosing our own tax rate.

CrazyFather1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am refusing to engage with somebody who won't call it what it is - The EU.

Which doesn't 'dictate' anything, if it did we would not be choosing our own tax rate.

No problem, I was posting to Blaaz_

James Brown

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Councils do have tradesmen doing renovations...i know people doing it


Anywhoo,some much deserved critism,as opposed to mindless complaining about funerals

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmurphy_TD/status/1352907068240494593

I know a council depot have one admin lad and a few inspectors. The inspectors would be qualified tradesmen.

My point was they don't have tradesmen sitting around waiting on the bat signal. It was just a distraction anyway. Some people play the fool rather than discuss.
The concept of the state/a council paying a developer to build houses cant seriously be beyond their comprehension.

Brendan Bendar

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

According to everything I can see the loop holes are now shut. The companies are paying tax as they are supposed to.

So do you still support Sinn Fein in letting Europe dictate to Ireland what our taxes should be?

If you can come up with an alternative to multi nationals which will generate over 21% of our income tax I am all ears, I am sure the whole of Ireland would be interested as well.

You have gone over these lads heads CF, the citizen army on the scratcher have no interest in the real picture, just ramble down and collect the giro and bobs yer uncle.

Then just whine and oppose everyone else as of course it means nothing to them whether the multis come or go.

Marching around with placards is about the most strenuous work they would ever do.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

My point was they don't have tradesmen sitting around waiting on the bat signal. It was just a distraction anyway. Some people play the fool rather than discuss.
The concept of the state/a council paying a developer to build houses cant seriously be beyond their comprehension.

i think the state should build em themselves,hire the extra workers



This bollixing around hiring developers etc is just a method ffg use to funnel money to their supporters/backers (some might say corruption)


Public-private parthnership,while great in theory etc,in practice in ireland it results in taxpayer getting fleeced,such as the childrens hospiteal

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

Theres always loopholes :pac:
I used em to reduce CGT on land from 6 to 1%


Europe setting our corp.tax rate/methods is likely on

This is liberialism.and irishpol through and through....its too difficult to tackle,so we just pretend it will last forever and cry when it blows up in our face and get snotty at those who highlight flaws....ive literally suggested building up.the local econmy to reduce the over relience on FDI,....

whereas from what i can see,ffg plan is to keep leaning on it,creating a bigger and bigger mess to untangle....its understandable why they do it....but its piss poor political leadership,and we as a country need better

I have zero interest in the government, as I already said after the pandemic we should have an election.
This whole point is about Multinationals paying the tax they are supposed to which according to the information I can find online this is now in place. So if that is the case why would anyone agree to Europe changing our tax rates?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

i think the state should build em themselves,hire the extra workers



This bollixing around hiring developers etc is just a method ffg use to funnel money to their supporters/backers (some might say corruption)


Public-private parthnership,while great in theory etc,in practice in ireland it results in taxpayer getting fleeced,such as the childrens hospiteal

If you go to hire thousands of people then you have to give them all the benefits of working for the government, which means they get government pensions etc, so the cost of a house would go through the roof. Plus after you build the house what do you do with all these people? you would then have to hand out large redundancy payments.

The current process is wrong but the government is not a building contractor and it would end up costing billions to do what you are suggesting. What is Sinn Fein's policy on building houses? are they saying they want to hire thousands of builders/electrician etc?

CrazyFather1

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I have zero interest in the government, as I already said after the pandemic we should have an election.
This whole point is about Multinationals paying the tax they are supposed to which according to the information I can find online this is now in place. So if that is the case why would anyone agree to Europe changing our tax rates?

This pandemic is looking like another 18 months in it


Jesus wept,the tax they are paying right rate or not is irrelveant,we are too relient on it at expense of local econmy,the EU ultimately is going to change the tax rate in medium to long term anyway
.

Shinners voting this through,wont change the tax rate here,as thats ultimately a european commission issue (hence why they were negociating brexit,and not MEPs)

McMurphy

I didn't realise we had so many Farage wannabes in Ireland, Are we all to be Irexiteers now, or what?

I see FGers annoyed because the Shinners abstained, and I see Paul Murphy's also annoyed too.


Seems the blueshirts and the socialists aren't as far apart as they thought.

CrazyFather1

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

If you go to hire thousands of people then you have to give them all the benefits of working for the government, which means they get government pensions etc, so the cost of a house would go through the roof. Plus after you build the house what do you do with all these people? you would then have to hand out large redundancy payments.

The current process is wrong but the government is not a building contractor and it would end up costing billions to do what you are suggesting. What is Sinn Fein's policy on building houses? are they saying they want to hire thousands of builders/electrician etc?

the state will be building houses annually for a generation,the population is projected to rise by a million by 2050....this is why its imperarive to tackle the housing crisis asap as many of these will also likely need social housing (get ahead of obvious problems,same as tackling over relience on FDI)


Its costing billions to build a single hospiteal in the getting developers to build for us....seems obvious to me,this is a failure and not worth trying again

Have sisk already looked for extra on top of the 200 million for dunkettle interchange in cork??

James Brown

[Deleted User] wrote: »

i think the state should build em themselves,hire the extra workers



This bollixing around hiring developers etc is just a method ffg use to funnel money to their supporters/backers (some might say corruption)


Public-private parthnership,while great in theory etc,in practice in ireland it results in taxpayer getting fleeced,such as the childrens hospiteal

Either way leasing luxury apartments for 25 years isnt something im happy to pay for.

McMurphy

Just reading up on the tax haven vote there.

I'm guessing their won't be a peep out of our resident green, as their MEPs abstained with the Shinners.

And lordo, lordo a FFer voted with the EU, but what about the shinners.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

I know a council depot have one admin lad and a few inspectors. The inspectors would be qualified tradesmen.

My point was they don't have tradesmen sitting around waiting on the bat signal. It was just a distraction anyway. Some people play the fool rather than discuss.
The concept of the state/a council paying a developer to build houses cant seriously be beyond their comprehension.

The point is, they do have tradesmen sitting around on standby for maintenance repairs. That is a fact, which you choose to deny.

Furthermore, those tradesmen have industrial relations agreements with the local authorities in respect of restrictions on contracting out, and permanent jobs, which makes in many cases the cost of building houses much more for local authorities than for private sector builders.

These are realities and facts, you can choose to ignore them, and maintain a fantasy that it is very easy for local authorities to build housing on the cheap.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/craft-union-calls-for-rejection-of-17-offer-1.383608

I can't find something more up-to-date, but there were 4,000 craft workers employed in 2003, I am sure it is more now.

CrazyFather1

McMurphy wrote: »

Just reading up on the tax haven vote there.

I'm guessing their won't be a peep out of our resident green, as their MEPs abstained with the Shinners.

And lordo, lordo a FFer voted with the EU, but what about the shinners.

So do you agree with them voting with the EU?

McMurphy

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

So do you agree with them voting with the EU?

FF?

I'm not an FF voter, they will be irrelevant next election anyway.

The question you need to answer is if you agree with the FFer voting with the EU.

You are an FF voter are you not?

CrazyFather1

McMurphy wrote: »

FF?

I'm not an FF voter, they will be irrelevant next election anyway.

The question you need to answer is if you agree with the FFer voting with the EU.

You are an FF voter are you not?

When did I say I was a FF voter? I don't care which party they come from they should not be voting against Ireland and with Europe, do you not agree?

FrancieBrady

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

When did I say I was a FF voter? I don't care which party they come from they should not be voting against Ireland and with Europe, do you not agree?

They are Ireland, they where elected to represent Ireland in the EU...not Europe.

McMurphy

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

When did I say I was a FF voter?

You didn't have to. If you think I don't know who I'm exchanging posts with, you're very naive.

I don't care which party they come from they should not be voting against Ireland and with Europe, do you not agree?

The only MEP I'm aware of that voted "against Ireland with Europe" was a FF MEP, do you even know what you're talking about?

And no I don't agree, MEPs can vote how they see fit themselves, they've got brains - if the people who put them there aren't happy, they know what they can do when they put themselves forward in the next election, because that, is how a democracy operates.

Do you not agree?

CrazyFather1

McMurphy wrote: »

You didn't have to. If you think I don't know who I'm exchanging posts with, you're very naive.




The only MEP I'm aware of that voted "against Ireland with Europe" was a FF MEP, do you even know what you're talking about?

And no I don't agree, MEPs can vote how they see fit themselves, they've got brains - if the people who put them there aren't happy, they know what they can do when they put themselves forward in the next election, because that, is how a democracy operates.

Do you not agree?

MEP's should vote for the country they are representing and it shouldn't matter what party they are from.

FrancieBrady

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

MEP's should vote for the country they are representing and it shouldn't matter what party they are from.

:D:D

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The point is, they do have tradesmen sitting around on standby for maintenance repairs. That is a fact, which you choose to deny.

Furthermore, those tradesmen have industrial relations agreements with the local authorities in respect of restrictions on contracting out, and permanent jobs, which makes in many cases the cost of building houses much more for local authorities than for private sector builders.

These are realities and facts, you can choose to ignore them, and maintain a fantasy that it is very easy for local authorities to build housing on the cheap.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/craft-union-calls-for-rejection-of-17-offer-1.383608

I can't find something more up-to-date, but there were 4,000 craft workers employed in 2003, I am sure it is more now.

Not in the council I know they don't.That's a fact. I've nothing to gain either way.
And no the topic was building houses. If the council build houses they are not going to be using in house staff. Do you believe council employees have ever built a house?
You are making up road blocks here. We could say no as they'd own the land in some circumstances.

You just made up 'on the cheap'. Never said such a thing.
Building is cheaper than buying especially in large numbers. You've been shown this.
Just because FF/FG want to line the pockets of cronies doesn't make it a good deal for the tax payer.