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The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)
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So, yea, lets get the UN on board, even though we are advocating taking over parts of the UK, who are permanent members of the Security Council and can veto any and all plans.....
Yes, you plan falls at the very first hurdle... so now what?
I think you are confusing NATO and the UN. UN Peacekeeping actually means keeping the peace between two warring parties.No EU, no UN... we just go it alone. Do you still think we should invade the North, because it will make some people feel good that we are actually doing something, even though will lose, and lose badly and could end up with the British occupying parts of the Republic again....
Actually, I think Frank Aiken was making quite a name for himself at the UN at that time. Dev knew how to win influence in the US. And thats where John Hume found it. Bloody Sunday hit the headlines all over the world and the British did not look good. Thats why Ted Kennedy contacted John Hume (and not the Irish Government). Ireland had the support of the US (even Reagan who got on famiously with Maggie Thacher used his influence on her over Ireland).
Just for the record, if you knew anything about Ireland's Constitution, you would know that Ireland had a claim on Northern Ireland. Maybe it would have sorted everything out if Britain had invaded the south (it actually did with the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, but a cowardly Fine Gael ran away from it). I really can't fathom Fine Gael and why they are so supportive of partition. It must be because they realise that they are the ones who divided Ireland.0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »If you tolerate cowardly governments, constitutionally mandated to protect Irish people, then most certainly your children might be next.
Sounds like a song from the Manic Street Preachers.
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FrancieBrady wrote: »Do you even know what an invasion is? I am seriously beginning to wonder.
You need the word 'invasion' to demean the argument that we should have done something.
I have stated several times that an invasion would have been ceazy and the wrong thing to do.
So what do you call an army willing to cross an international border without the consent of the opposing foreign power?
You can call it whatever you want, a peace mission, a peace core, a peach dance..... it will be looked at as an illegal incursion into another countries territory. i.e an invasion.
Francie, just because you put the word 'peace' before it doesn't negate these facts.
But yes, scramble away.0 -
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I think you are confusing NATO and the UN. UN Peacekeeping actually means keeping the peace between two warring parties.
No, I know that. But how on earth could the Irish state get the backing of the UN to create a peacekeeping force to enter the UK, when the UK is a permanent member of the Security Council.
The answer of course, is that it would have never happened or been allowed. So the UN option is out.
That leaves not many other options to build an international coalition. Ireland would have been very very much on its own.Actually, I think Frank Aiken was making quite a name for himself at the UN at that time. Dev knew how to win influence in the US. And thats where John Hume found it. Bloody Sunday hit the headlines all over the world and the British did not look good. Thats why Ted Kennedy contacted John Hume (and not the Irish Government). Ireland had the support of the US (even Reagan who got on famiously with Maggie Thacher used his influence on her over Ireland).
Yes, but its another galaxy of thinking to advocate that the US would have backed Ireland militarily here in any shape or form.
Delusional thinking tbh if you think the US military was going to be rocking up the Derry and Newry on behest of Ireland.Just for the record, if you knew anything about Ireland's Constitution, you would know that Ireland had a claim on Northern Ireland.
Yes, I know that too, it was taken out as part of the GFA.
You can claim all you want, but in reality, it means nothing.
Sure, the Irish army could try to make good of its claim, but we all know that would have been a disaster. Then what? Keep something in writing to make its people feel good about itself?
You know there was a reason why we took that claim out as part of the GFA.Maybe it would have sorted everything out if Britain had invaded the south (it actually did with the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, but a cowardly Fine Gael ran away from it). I really can't fathom Fine Gael and why they are so supportive of partition. It must be because they realise that they are the ones who divided Ireland.
The treaty divided Ireland, as it was voted on and accepted by the Dail via the democratic mandate of the people at the time. If you had another way please tell us.
I have gone through this many many times, but the partition was inevitable.
No amount of hand ringing, tut-tutting, jabs at FG, and SF green willy-waving would have changed that most basic, salient fact......
It is why we have Irish Republicans giving it large on the net, because they are so bitter on being on the wrong side of history the past 100 years, as Collins and Co. at the time were correct and Dev. and the rest of the Anti-Treaty brigade were wrong. History has proven the Pro-Treaty voices to be the correct ones.
But lemons... so many lemons.0 -
No, I know that. But how on earth could the Irish state get the backing of the UN to create a peacekeeping force to enter the UK, when the UK is a permanent member of the Security Council.
The answer of course, is that it would have never happened or been allowed. So the UN option is out.
That leaves not many other options to build an international coalition. Ireland would have been very very much on its own.
You seem to think that UN Peacekeeping force is like an invasion. It isn't. They basically police. The world was shocked with what happened on Bloody Sunday. It got a lot of publicity in the US in particular. How the heck do you think the PIRA raised so much money there if they were not supportive? If the Irish Gov. put the same effort into it as John Hume did, they could have at least highlighted what was going on. Jack Lynch didn't and from those transcripts we know know that they didn't give two ****s about what was happening to nationalists on this island.Yes, but its another galaxy of thinking to advocate that the US would have backed Ireland militarily here in any shape or form.
Delusional thinking tbh if you think the US military was going to be rocking up the Derry and Newry on behest of Ireland.
I have never advocated invasion (and I don't think anyone else has here). The Irish Gov. should have tapped its soft power which is exactly what John Hume did.
If any troops were rocking up to Derry or Newry, they probably would have been from Northern Europe, Australian or NZ. Only a nut case would have either US or UK soldiers peacekeeping because they have aggressive armies and are untrained in peacekeeping. Ireland had sent peacekeeping troops to the Congo in 1961, so the concept was around a while.Yes, I know that too, it was taken out as part of the GFA.
You can claim all you want, but in reality, it means nothing.
Sure, the Irish army could try to make good of its claim, but we all know that would have been a disaster. Then what? Keep something in writing to make its people feel good about itself?
You know there was a reason why we took that claim out as part of the GFA.
No one has said the south should have invaded the north, so please stop repeating that line.The treaty divided Ireland, as it was voted on and accepted by the Dail via the democratic mandate of the people at the time. If you had another way please tell us.
It wasn't accepted in the Constitution.I have gone through this many many times, but the partition was inevitable.
No amount of hand ringing, tut-tutting, jabs at FG, and SF green willy-waving would have changed that most basic, salient fact......
I'm not tut-tutting FFG about partition. I'm tut-tutting how FFG abandoning nationalists in Northern Ireland in a sectarian state that discriminated against them.It is why we have Irish Republicans giving it large on the net, because they are so bitter on being on the wrong side of history the past 100 years, as Collins and Co. at the time were correct and Dev. and the rest of the Anti-Treaty brigade were wrong. History has proven the Pro-Treaty voices to be the correct ones.
But lemons... so many lemons.
I couldn't give two tosses about a UI. I was very happy with the GFA at the time and if the people of NI want to remain in the UK, I would be happy for them. What I have a huge problem with is the problems that partitition create for the whole island of Ireland and I have come to the conclusion that unionists don't want to share NI with nationalists and are willing to pay any price for that. They will drag the whole island down with them.0 -
You seem to think that UN Peacekeeping force is like an invasion. It isn't. They basically police.
Tell that to the North Koreans and Chinese.
You didn't answer the question I put.
How can we get the UK to accept a UN resolution that would age UN peacekeeping troops in its own country?I have never advocated invasion (and I don't think anyone else has here).
Francie has. Even if the UK told them no, the Irish military should have gone in and taken over parts of NI.If any troops were rocking up to Derry or Newry, they probably would have been from Northern Europe, Australian or NZ.
So again, some UN peace keeping core.
How would the UK agree to this?Only a nut case would have either US or UK soldiers peacekeeping because they have aggressive armies and are untrained in peacekeeping.
Yes, and the Australians (who were fighting in Vietnam), Kiwis and those from NATO countries are just lovely and smell of roses.No one has said the south should have invaded the north, so please stop repeating that line.
That is what is being put forward, send in the Irish Army to Derry and other places, just to be seen to be doing something.
We all know it would have been a disaster.It wasn't accepted in the Constitution.
What do you mean it wasn't accepted?I'm not tut-tutting FFG about partition. I'm tut-tutting how FFG abandoning nationalists in Northern Ireland in a sectarian state that discriminated against them.
Ah yes, Charlie Haughey, Garret Fitzgerald Albert Reynolds, John Bruton, Bertie Ahern did nothing for nationalists, am I right? Even though they signed and were party to many peace talks and agreements.....
One can do plenty without violence, but it seems the defacto state of play is that one has be all guns blazing and to be seen to have a big green willy to wave about the place to appease some populists.I couldn't give two tosses about a UI. I was very happy with the GFA at the time and if the people of NI want to remain in the UK, I would be happy for them.
You said something else in the other thread but anyway.What I have a huge problem with is the problems that partitition create for the whole island of Ireland and I have come to the conclusion that unionists don't want to share NI with nationalists and are willing to pay any price for that. They will drag the whole island down with them.
They are in a powersharing agreement are they not?
Who was the last party to collapse Stormont, oh yea... that was SF....
Take your myth making elsewhere.0 -
Tell that to the North Koreans and Chinese.
You didn't answer the question I put.
How can we get the UK to accept a UN resolution that would age UN peacekeeping troops in its own country?
Francie has. Even if the UK told them no, the Irish military should have gone in and taken over parts of NI.
So again, some UN peace keeping core.
How would the UK agree to this?
Yes, and the Australians (who were fighting in Vietnam), Kiwis and those from NATO countries are just lovely and smell of roses.
That is what is being put forward, send in the Irish Army to Derry and other places, just to be seen to be doing something.
We all know it would have been a disaster.
What do you mean it wasn't accepted?
Ah yes, Charlie Haughey, Garret Fitzgerald Albert Reynolds, John Bruton, Bertie Ahern did nothing for nationalists, am I right? Even though they signed and were party to many peace talks and agreements.....
One can do plenty without violence, but it seems the defacto state of play is that one has be all guns blazing and to be seen to have a big green willy to wave about the place to appease some populists.
You said something else in the other thread but anyway.
They are in a powersharing agreement are they not?
Who was the last party to collapse Stormont, oh yea... that was SF....
Take your myth making elsewhere.
Hey Paul O Grady, go back loving dogs or whatever you do on channel 4 and let people who have a clue discuss things in a civil manner
P.S The UK is not a country0 -
mynamejeff wrote: »I hate to break this too you but a boarder pool would fair
the north is too much of a economic and social weight around the neck of the republic as it is to the the uk at present ,
we don't want the north and we don't need it .
If a border poll would fail, why are FFG ****ting themselves at the thoughts of it?
Why are all the wee FFG fanboys boiling their piss every time it's mentioned?
You personally don't want the north but it's going to happen whether you like it or not because there is a growing movement towards it in the north and we're now at the point where there is an overall nationalist majority and even some softline unionists are considering it after the sh*tshow served up by the Tories recently.0 -
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Bishop of hope wrote: »I take no pleasure in it dd, far from it.
I'm wondering why the fcuk there's no increase in sanctions because the good people from the north need something.
If that was here and no action being taken I'd be livid.
If there was 20 in a County with a meat plant yiz'd be all over it like a rash.
It's, in six counties just up the road from me and I'm shocked no further action has, been taken yet.
It's an average of 150 almost per county up there.
The numbers are alarming yes, something has to be done yes.
Please also bare in mind the calculation of the numbers in the north as well. If you have symptom's and book a test or you are contacted through track and trace to get a test you are automatically assumed to be a positive case until the results come back negative. If you fail to take the test you are automatically logged onto the system as a positive case and get a message telling you to self isolate for 14 days.
The numbers given are people who have actually done the test and returned a positive result and those who have sought a test but didn't show - either way something needs to be done ASAP and there's an executive meeting today which will probably decide enhanced restrictions all over the north.
People also have to take personal responsibility and follow the rules for any measures to work.0 -
I think you are confusing NATO and the UN. UN Peacekeeping actually means keeping the peace between two warring parties.
Actually, I think Frank Aiken was making quite a name for himself at the UN at that time. Dev knew how to win influence in the US. And thats where John Hume found it. Bloody Sunday hit the headlines all over the world and the British did not look good. Thats why Ted Kennedy contacted John Hume (and not the Irish Government). Ireland had the support of the US (even Reagan who got on famiously with Maggie Thacher used his influence on her over Ireland).
Just for the record, if you knew anything about Ireland's Constitution, you would know that Ireland had a claim on Northern Ireland. Maybe it would have sorted everything out if Britain had invaded the south (it actually did with the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, but a cowardly Fine Gael ran away from it). I really can't fathom Fine Gael and why they are so supportive of partition. It must be because they realise that they are the ones who divided Ireland.
I think in the context of the time and who was leading Britain (something Mark and Truth studiously ignore and have to, really have to, characterise it as an 'invasion') and the mostly, if not all sympathetic worldwide eyes on Ireland that a flagged intention to go in as a peacekeeping force would have immediately internationalised the issue and precipitated diplomatic problem solving.
I think the British would have faced down the sectarian bigoted Unionists first before they would have sparked an international incident by attacking Ireland. We were not in the 1920's, the world knew what the issue was, they could see it on the streets of the north, television and the cameras saw to that.
That world wide sympathy for the nationalist plight has lasted through the entire conflict/war actually. Just listen to Unionists moan about that if you doubt my word.
Agree with you about Aitken too. We would never have gotten official UN sanction because the UK is one of the five, but they certainly would have had something to say and back channels would have been opened.0 -
The numbers are alarming yes, something has to be done yes.
Please also bare in mind the calculation of the numbers in the north as well. If you have symptom's and book a test or you are contacted through track and trace to get a test you are automatically assumed to be a positive case until the results come back negative. If you fail to take the test you are automatically logged onto the system as a positive case and get a message telling you to self isolate for 14 days.
The numbers given are people who have actually done the test and returned a positive result and those who have sought a test but didn't show - either way something needs to be done ASAP and there's an executive meeting today which will probably decide enhanced restrictions all over the north.
People also have to take personal responsibility and follow the rules for any measures to work.
So you're saying the figures of covid in the North are just people who seek a test, not positive cases. Like there's only a few hundred tests a day?0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »
I said that when the Bogside was under siege that very clear signals should have been sent that a peacekeeping force would be sent into Derry to act as a buffer between the people and the maurading forces of the NI state.
Well, if we were only sending clear signals and were bluffing, then Francie is right that he never called for an invasion. However, bluffing wasn't a tenable situation.You seem to think that UN Peacekeeping force is like an invasion. It isn't. They basically police.
I have never advocated invasion (and I don't think anyone else has here). The Irish Gov. should have tapped its soft power which is exactly what John Hume did.
If any troops were rocking up to Derry or Newry, they probably would have been from Northern Europe, Australian or NZ. Only a nut case would have either US or UK soldiers peacekeeping because they have aggressive armies and are untrained in peacekeeping. Ireland had sent peacekeeping troops to the Congo in 1961, so the concept was around a while.
This is just fantasy, pure fantasy.
I have pointed out repeatedly that in the whole history of the UN, not one permanent member of the Security Council has allowed a UN peacekeeping force onto its soil.
When the Chinese were killing Tibetans for fun, there was protests at the UN, but nothing was done. They even vetoed membership for Taiwan.
https://isdp.eu/content/uploads/2018/03/PRC-Peacekeeping-Backgrounder.pdf
Have a read of this document for some background on the Chinese attitude to peacekeeping.
"Placing such a fundamental importance on the
pillar of state sovereignty has been a guiding
principle for Beijing. This was the primary factor
in its opposition to peacekeeping missions up
until its first engagement in Cambodia in 1992.
Not maintaining its neutrality and undermining
the principle of sovereignty was seen as a threat
to its own internal security, from the Xinjiang,
Tibet and Inner Mongolia autonomous regions,
as well as its claims over Taiwan"
When the Soviet Union was burning and falling apart, there were no peacekeeping operations in the Ukraine. Even now....
https://finabel.org/the-potential-of-an-eu-peacekeeping-force-in-ukraine/
"The deployment of UN-mandated peacekeepers to the Donbas region has been on the table for several years; however, Russia has made it clear that it will only support a mandate for UN peacekeepers when a political settlement is reached in the region"
Now rewind back to the late 1960s and the height of the cold war, the ongoing proxy war in Vietnam. It is sheer fantasy to believe that the UN would even consider a peacekeeping force in the North.
https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/no-longer-standing-idly-by-irish-army-contingency-plans-1969-70/
This is an excellent article by professional historians rather than internet fantasists which sets out the reality of the time.
"Even if the political will had existed within the Irish government, the infantry groups did not have the manpower, transport or equipment to protect the nationalist areas of Belfast. Speaking retrospectively, Lynch admitted that ‘we had no intention of moving in . . . we did not have the men or equipment even if we had the desire’"
"Consequently the Irish army was authorised to assess its capability for intervention in Northern Ireland and produced an assessment, Interim Report of Planning Board on Northern Ireland Operations (27 September 1969). Military planners viewed intervention with clear apprehension and knew that an incursion without an attainable political objective would be counter-productive to Irish interests. They recognised the difficulty of justifying an incursion and realised that internationally the Republic of Ireland might be seen as an aggressor, with negative political and public opinion influencing ‘the outcome of any operations undertaken’."
That is the assessment of the time - we would be seen as the agressors. No hope of UN intervention, save to justify a British invasion to secure its borders. Looking back through a green-tinted fog of misty-eyed nostalgia doesn't change those facts.
It is time we left this silly idea of invading the North in 1969 behind. It is distracting from more serious issues like the complete failure of the Sinn Fein government to take action in the North against Covid-19 and the very interesting court case being taken by the McConville family. You would almost think that people wanted to divert from these issues by posting nonsensical ideas.0 -
The numbers are alarming yes, something has to be done yes.
Please also bare in mind the calculation of the numbers in the north as well. If you have symptom's and book a test or you are contacted through track and trace to get a test you are automatically assumed to be a positive case until the results come back negative. If you fail to take the test you are automatically logged onto the system as a positive case and get a message telling you to self isolate for 14 days.
The numbers given are people who have actually done the test and returned a positive result and those who have sought a test but didn't show - either way something needs to be done ASAP and there's an executive meeting today which will probably decide enhanced restrictions all over the north.
People also have to take personal responsibility and follow the rules for any measures to work.
I have tried to verify this statement online but I can find no evidence to support it. It is at variance with the practice in the rest of the UK so have serious doubts about it. Can you provide a link to back it up?0 -
I have tried to verify this statement online but I can find no evidence to support it. It is at variance with the practice in the rest of the UK so have serious doubts about it. Can you provide a link to back it up?
The only reason I heard about it was a neighbour of mine was due a test on Monday morning but was taken to hospital late Sunday evening for an unrelated matter (broken leg) and got the positive test message on Monday lunchtime by default.
He was tested when he arrived in hospital Sunday night and returned a negative result on Tuesday morning. When he queried the message from Monday the doctor in Craigavon told him the system automatically returns a positive if there is a no show for the test. His negative result on Tuesday will mean his Monday default result will have to be removed manually.
It's all a bit confusing but it might bump the numbers up a wee bit but they are still very high regardless.0 -
Well, if we were only sending clear signals and were bluffing, then Francie is right that he never called for an invasion. However, bluffing wasn't a tenable situation.
This is just fantasy, pure fantasy.
I have pointed out repeatedly that in the whole history of the UN, not one permanent member of the Security Council has allowed a UN peacekeeping force onto its soil.
When the Chinese were killing Tibetans for fun, there was protests at the UN, but nothing was done. They even vetoed membership for Taiwan.
https://isdp.eu/content/uploads/2018/03/PRC-Peacekeeping-Backgrounder.pdf
Have a read of this document for some background on the Chinese attitude to peacekeeping.
"Placing such a fundamental importance on the
pillar of state sovereignty has been a guiding
principle for Beijing. This was the primary factor
in its opposition to peacekeeping missions up
until its first engagement in Cambodia in 1992.
Not maintaining its neutrality and undermining
the principle of sovereignty was seen as a threat
to its own internal security, from the Xinjiang,
Tibet and Inner Mongolia autonomous regions,
as well as its claims over Taiwan"
When the Soviet Union was burning and falling apart, there were no peacekeeping operations in the Ukraine. Even now....
https://finabel.org/the-potential-of-an-eu-peacekeeping-force-in-ukraine/
"The deployment of UN-mandated peacekeepers to the Donbas region has been on the table for several years; however, Russia has made it clear that it will only support a mandate for UN peacekeepers when a political settlement is reached in the region"
Now rewind back to the late 1960s and the height of the cold war, the ongoing proxy war in Vietnam. It is sheer fantasy to believe that the UN would even consider a peacekeeping force in the North.
https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/no-longer-standing-idly-by-irish-army-contingency-plans-1969-70/
This is an excellent article by professional historians rather than internet fantasists which sets out the reality of the time.
"Even if the political will had existed within the Irish government, the infantry groups did not have the manpower, transport or equipment to protect the nationalist areas of Belfast. Speaking retrospectively, Lynch admitted that ‘we had no intention of moving in . . . we did not have the men or equipment even if we had the desire’"
"Consequently the Irish army was authorised to assess its capability for intervention in Northern Ireland and produced an assessment, Interim Report of Planning Board on Northern Ireland Operations (27 September 1969). Military planners viewed intervention with clear apprehension and knew that an incursion without an attainable political objective would be counter-productive to Irish interests. They recognised the difficulty of justifying an incursion and realised that internationally the Republic of Ireland might be seen as an aggressor, with negative political and public opinion influencing ‘the outcome of any operations undertaken’."
That is the assessment of the time - we would be seen as the agressors. No hope of UN intervention, save to justify a British invasion to secure its borders. Looking back through a green-tinted fog of misty-eyed nostalgia doesn't change those facts.
It is time we left this silly idea of invading the North in 1969 behind. It is distracting from more serious issues like the complete failure of the Sinn Fein government to take action in the North against Covid-19 and the very interesting court case being taken by the McConville family. You would almost think that people wanted to divert from these issues by posting nonsensical ideas.
We know you hate any discussion that might lay responsibilities at the door of those who had the 'actual' power.
The 'focus' must be kept on your boogeymen and women at all times.
Some of us can take a wide view and keep an eye on 'interesting' current events too.
All of the pending cases as well as the 'cases' being avoided are 'interesting', would you agree with that?0 -
Bishop of hope wrote: »So you're saying the figures of covid in the North are just people who seek a test, not positive cases. Like there's only a few hundred tests a day?
I'm saying some of the results are default positives but the numbers are really high regardless.0 -
The only reason I heard about it was a neighbour of mine was due a test on Monday morning but was taken to hospital late Sunday evening for an unrelated matter (broken leg) and got the positive test message on Monday lunchtime by default.
He was tested when he arrived in hospital Sunday night and returned a negative result on Tuesday morning. When he queried the message from Monday the doctor in Craigavon told him the system automatically returns a positive if there is a no show for the test. His negative result on Tuesday will mean his Monday default result will have to be removed manually.
It's all a bit confusing but it might bump the numbers up a wee bit but they are still very high regardless.
They are very high and we will be as high unless the opposition and concerned parties can stop whatever childish political games the coalition are playing wth the nations health.
Hopefully the chickens will come home to roost today and the Tanaiste and Minister for Health can explain wtf they were at.0 -
The only reason I heard about it was a neighbour of mine was due a test on Monday morning but was taken to hospital late Sunday evening for an unrelated matter (broken leg) and got the positive test message on Monday lunchtime by default.
He was tested when he arrived in hospital Sunday night and returned a negative result on Tuesday morning. When he queried the message from Monday the doctor in Craigavon told him the system automatically returns a positive if there is a no show for the test. His negative result on Tuesday will mean his Monday default result will have to be removed manually.
It's all a bit confusing but it might bump the numbers up a wee bit but they are still very high regardless.
That is only hearsay though. I have looked for the basis of the statistics, and cannot find anything to back that up. I would suggest that your neighbour got it wrong.0 -
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Fixed your post thereFrancieBrady wrote: »They are very high and we will be as high unless the opposition and concerned parties can stop whatever childish political games the coalition are playing wth the nations health.
Hopefully the chickens will come home to roost today and the Tanaiste and Minister for Health can explain wtf they were at. will resign0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »We know you hate any discussion that might lay responsibilities at the door of those who had the 'actual' power.
The 'focus' must be kept on your boogeymen and women at all times.
Some of us can take a wide view and keep an eye on 'interesting' current events too.
All of the pending cases as well as the 'cases' being avoided are 'interesting', would you agree with that?
I see you didn't challenge a single bit of the analysis of the events of 1969. Can we bookmark that post for the next time some fantastical reimagining of the events occurs again?0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »They are very high and we will be as high unless the opposition and concerned parties can stop whatever childish political games the coalition are playing wth the nations health.
Hopefully the chickens will come home to roost today and the Tanaiste and Minister for Health can explain wtf they were at.
Yes, I would like to know why we are doing so much better than Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It would give some context to our own measures.0 -
That is only hearsay though. I have looked for the basis of the statistics, and cannot find anything to back that up. I would suggest that your neighbour got it wrong.
Not really hearsay when it was a doctor in Craigavon Hospital who told him this. He sent me screenshot of text message from the Monday saying he was positive and then the message from the actual test saying he was negative.
Would you really be shocked that stuff like this can happen? Look what happened in England with the 16,000 tests they didn't put into the system. The default positives may only be a fraction of the numbers but it's still there regardless.0 -
I should have used the sarcasm emoji when mentioning the €100k. Point being that politicians like Mary Lou haven't a hope of coming up with any sort of workable economic solution for the North, especially if she is stupid enough to think the demographics will look after themselves.
Apologies Christy. I missed the sarcasm. My bad
I just get pissed off when people mention increasing the income tax for workers earning over €100k. Its bad enough that nearly half my pay gets taken by the tax man, I don't see why I should pay even more.0 -
I see you didn't challenge a single bit of the analysis of the events of 1969.
Because you insist on talking about an 'invasion'.
When you do discuss peacekeeping you fall back on FF excuses to make your point.
There was plenty of resources and men to swamp and secure the border in cahoots with the British when it came to it.
As they say, 'away up the yard' with that.0 -
Not really hearsay when it was a doctor in Craigavon Hospital who told him this. He sent me screenshot of text message from the Monday saying he was positive and then the message from the actual test saying he was negative.
Would you really be shocked that stuff like this can happen? Look what happened in England with the 16,000 tests they didn't put into the system. The default positives may only be a fraction of the numbers but it's still there regardless.
https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/doh-db-071020.pdf
"There is the view that the number of confirmed cases in a country is a function of the number of tests it conducts. It is important to note
despite the focus on testing large numbers of the population we do not actually know the number of people who have coronavirus in the
population.
There may be a great many who are symptom free but nevertheless have the virus but just not ever been tested. It is for this reason that we
plot laboratory confirmed cases and not simply refer to cases, the true number of which we do not know."
The official statistics say the opposite to you - that there are more people out there who are positive and haven't been tested. They are also clear that they only plot laboratory confirmed cases.
However, what is most scary from reading that document is the doubling rate. Northern Ireland is at 15.6, far below all others, UK as a whole is only at 24.6 and Ireland is at 55.1. Even France is only at 38.1.
That is quite a scary number, and when you think it means that the cases in Northern Ireland will double every 15.6 days at current rate of growth, the government up there has wasted half of that doing nothing.0 -
Yes, I would like to know why we are doing so much better than Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It would give some context to our own measures.
It isn't a competition blanch. A few months ago NI was better than the Britain and here.
Focus is required here and the silly political games need to stop or 'there go we' too.0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »Because you insist on talking about an 'invasion'.
When you do discuss peacekeeping you fall back on FF excuses to make your point.
There was plenty of resources and men to swamp and secure the border in cahoots with the British when it came to it.
As they say, 'away up the yard' with that.
On one side of the debate: Francie and his fantasy dream-like theory of an invasion disguised as a peacekeeping force saving the North in 1969, supported by similar green-tinted dreams from other posters.
On the other side of the debate: The historical record. Professional historians. Reality.
There is no contest when you stop for 2 seconds to think about it.0 -
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https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/doh-db-071020.pdf
"There is the view that the number of confirmed cases in a country is a function of the number of tests it conducts. It is important to note
despite the focus on testing large numbers of the population we do not actually know the number of people who have coronavirus in the
population.
There may be a great many who are symptom free but nevertheless have the virus but just not ever been tested. It is for this reason that we
plot laboratory confirmed cases and not simply refer to cases, the true number of which we do not know."
The official statistics say the opposite to you - that there are more people out there who are positive and haven't been tested. They are also clear that they only plot laboratory confirmed cases.
However, what is most scary from reading that document is the doubling rate. Northern Ireland is at 15.6, far below all others, UK as a whole is only at 24.6 and Ireland is at 55.1. Even France is only at 38.1.
That is quite a scary number, and when you think it means that the cases in Northern Ireland will double every 15.6 days at current rate of growth, the government up there has wasted half of that doing nothing.
Meanwhile it is reported than 10 counties here are now above the incidence rate of 100...it was four a week ago.
Our Tanaiste and Minister for Health currently stand accused of playing political games and trying to undermine the CMO and NPHET.
But Northern Ireland....:rolleyes:0
This discussion has been closed.
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