The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't a competition blanch. A few months ago NI was better than the Britain and here.

Focus is required here and the silly political games need to stop or 'there go we' too.

It is not about a contest. It is about learning from other's mistakes. Northern Ireland is in deep trouble from Covid-19, far deeper trouble than either us or the rest of the UK. We need to know why, so we don't make the same mistakes. Is it government incompetence, as I suspect, or is it some other reason? It can't be blamed on London, because as bad as they are, Northern Ireland is worse.

Ignoring it is not the answer. I could be wrong, but there is no evidence to contradict me.

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

If any troops were rocking up to Derry or Newry, they probably would have been from Northern Europe, Australian or NZ. Only a nut case would have either US or UK soldiers peacekeeping because they have aggressive armies and are untrained in peacekeeping. Ireland had sent peacekeeping troops to the Congo in 1961, so the concept was around a while.

Armies from countries in northern Europe.... most of those countries would have been in NATO. (By the way, the UK was a founding member of NATO)

NZ or Australian armies... so armies from Commonwealth countries. (Queen Elizabeth II is the head of the Commonwealth)

Do you really think the militant republicans would have accepted peacekeepers from military forces with such close ties to the UK? You haven't really thought this through have you.

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

No, it was Francie and I am calling him out on it.
You supported the idea, now it seems you have gone cold on the idea?
Why?

go away with your crap please. you make bogie men and then insist people react to it.

The irish government DID NOTHING. you are proud of that. Im not. end of story

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not about a contest. It is about learning from other's mistakes. Northern Ireland is in deep trouble from Covid-19, far deeper trouble than either us or the rest of the UK. We need to know why, so we don't make the same mistakes. Is it government incompetence, as I suspect, or is it some other reason? It can't be blamed on London, because as bad as they are, Northern Ireland is worse.

Ignoring it is not the answer. I could be wrong, but there is no evidence to contradict me.

It's because it is a failed state. Because of the divisions caused by partitions there is a pull between an all island approach and following the approach of a separate island.

That is always going to imperil the health of this island.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Meanwhile it is reported than 10 counties here are now above the incidence rate of 100...it was four a week ago.

Our Tanaiste and Minister for Health currently stand accused of playing political games and trying to undermine the CMO and NPHET.

But Northern Ireland....:rolleyes:

We are in the Sinn Fein thread. Sinn Fein govern in Northern Ireland. They have made a huge mess of Covid-19 up there. Why are you trying to stop debate and discussion about that?

Why are you trying to control the narrative once again and ban certain topics?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's because it is a failed state. Because of the divisions caused by partitions there is a pull between an all island approach and following the approach of a separate island.

That is always going to imperil the health of this island.

Sorry Francie, that doesn't stock up, when Cyprus, on a divided partitioned island is doing much much better.

You are looking at the issue through your green-tinted glasses again and allowing your fear of Northern Ireland dealing itself with its own problems to take over.

blanch152

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Armies from countries in northern Europe.... most of those countries would have been in NATO. (By the way, the UK was a founding member of NATO)

NZ or Australian armies... so armies from Commonwealth countries. (Queen Elizabeth II is the head of the Commonwealth)

Do you really think the militant republicans would have accepted peacekeepers from military forces with such close ties to the UK? You haven't really thought this through have you.

Did he really think that UK's allies in Nato and the Commonwealth would agree to invade a part of the UK? It is so laughable, it is beyond belief.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

We are in the Sinn Fein thread. Sinn Fein govern in Northern Ireland. They have made a huge mess of Covid-19 up there. Why are you trying to stop debate and discussion about that?

Why are you trying to control the narrative once again and ban certain topics?

sf run the north on their own now? i thought it was an assembly of parties

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

sf run the north on their own now? i thought it was an assembly of parties

Never said they governed on their own. I would say that they take no responsiblity for governing.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry Francie, that doesn't stock up, when Cyprus, on a divided partitioned island is doing much much better.

You are looking at the issue through your green-tinted glasses again and allowing your fear of Northern Ireland dealing itself with its own problems to take over.

We are Ireland blanch...looking at themuns is not an answer. Our issues are specific to us.

FrancieBrady

maccored wrote: »

sf run the north on their own now? i thought it was an assembly of parties

The north is run by an 'executive' and a 5 way coalition under an international agreement between two sovereign countries.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are Ireland blanch...looking at themuns is not an answer. Our issues are specific to us.

So we are not to look at Northern Ireland because it is not our country. You partitionist!!!!

Nobotty

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry Francie, that doesn't stock up, when Cyprus, on a divided partitioned island is doing much much better.

You are looking at the issue through your green-tinted glasses again and allowing your fear of Northern Ireland dealing itself with its own problems to take over.

You require a clear test crossing the Cyprus border
So no comparison at all

The issue in the North of Ireland is the same as In Liverpool
Poor UK compensation meaning people decide to break guidelines to keep their rents and mortgages paid
Plus an open border with GB

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So we are not to look at Northern Ireland because it is not our country. You partitionist!!!!

What?

You want to look at Cyprus which has issues specific to it.

This is Ireland blanch, which includes all of its parts, north south east and west.

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

You require a clear test crossing the Cyprus border
So no comparison at all

The issue in the North of Ireland is the same as In Liverpool
Poor UK compensation meaning people decide to break guidelines to keep their rents and mortgages paid
Plus an open border with GB

I have addressed that already elsewhere, and it doesn't stack up.

Common Travel Area means we have an open border with GB, actual travel to the South from Great Britain is greater than travel to Northern Ireland, so that is a complete fallacy.

If you are right on the poor UK compensation, that is 100% on Sinn Fein, who gave away the power to set social welfare rates in Northern Ireland a couple of years ago.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

You want to look at Cyprus which has issues specific to it.

This is Ireland blanch, which includes all of its parts, north south east and west.

Francie, your insular viewpoint means that you don't want to compare the two sectarian parties in the North with other countries and how they manage their problems. You want to give Sinn Fein a free pass because of something that happened 100 years ago.

Latvia wasn't even a country until a few decades ago and it is managing Covid-19 fairly well. Ditto Estonia, Lithuania, Moldova, Croatia, Bosnia and many many others. Blaming some historical event for the current failure of the leaders of Northern Ireland is a pathetic cop-out.

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

You require a clear test crossing the Cyprus border
So no comparison at all

The issue in the North of Ireland is the same as In Liverpool
Poor UK compensation meaning people decide to break guidelines to keep their rents and mortgages paid
Plus an open border with GB

We did exactly the same thing last night...the vote against restoring the PUP payment. People will have no choice.

Nobotty

blanch152 wrote: »

I have addressed that already elsewhere, and it doesn't stack up.

Common Travel Area means we have an open border with GB, actual travel to the South from Great Britain is greater than travel to Northern Ireland, so that is a complete fallacy.

If you are right on the poor UK compensation, that is 100% on Sinn Fein, who gave away the power to set social welfare rates in Northern Ireland a couple of years ago.

Its not really on SF because they'd still be dependent on the UK treasury grant
There are no checks whatsoever on people going from GB to the north
They can just walk in unlike gb to the south
So there's no measure up north only wild guesses

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Never said they governed on their own. I would say that they take no responsiblity for governing.

youre acting like its solely their fault

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

Its not really on SF because they'd still be dependent on the UK treasury grant
There are no checks whatsoever on people going from GB to the north
They can just walk in unlike gb to the south
So there's no measure up north only wild guesses

There are no checks on people from GB coming into the South either.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Francie, your insular viewpoint means that you don't want to compare the two sectarian parties in the North with other countries and how they manage their problems. You want to give Sinn Fein a free pass because of something that happened 100 years ago.

Latvia wasn't even a country until a few decades ago and it is managing Covid-19 fairly well. Ditto Estonia, Lithuania, Moldova, Croatia, Bosnia and many many others. Blaming some historical event for the current failure of the leaders of Northern Ireland is a pathetic cop-out.

Wrong blanch, like here, those who govern are responsible. SF govern as part of a 5 way coalition not a 2 way one.

I have not sought to give any government or executive a 'free pass'.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wrong blanch, like here, those who govern are responsible. SF govern as part of a 5 way coalition not a 2 way one.

I have not sought to give any government or executive a 'free pass'.

From what I have seen, it is the two main sectarian parties who are causing all of the problems up North.

Nobotty

blanch152 wrote: »

There are no checks on people from GB coming into the South either.

Thats untrue
You have to show a passport or drivers licence which is swiped
So there is a count and an accurate count on nationality too
There's no such details on GB NI
Its a free for all

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

From what I have seen, it is the two main sectarian parties who are causing all of the problems up North.

we all know how much you know about the north

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

From what I have seen, it is the two main sectarian parties who are causing all of the problems up North.

You have a penchant for this. Singling out one or two parties of a coalition for blame or praise.

The government or executive are ultimately responsible. The executive in NI are having a difficult time after doing better than us for a month or two.
As others have pointed out, there are reasons for that. some of them external and uncontrollable.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have a penchant for this. Singling out one or two parties of a coalition for blame or praise.

The government or executive are ultimately responsible. The executive in NI are having a difficult time after doing better than us for a month or two.
As others have pointed out, there are reasons for that. some of them external and uncontrollable.

They weren't doing better than us for a month or two.

I pointed out at the time the low levels of testing taking place in Northern Ireland due to the failure of the NI government. That gave a false picture of doing better while the virus ran wild in the community. The implications are there now with the much higher rate, it didn't just come from nowhere.

From the start of this crisis, the SF/DUP government has been particularly inept.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

They weren't doing better than us for a month or two.

I pointed out at the time the low levels of testing taking place in Northern Ireland due to the failure of the NI government. That gave a false picture of doing better while the virus ran wild in the community. The implications are there now with the much higher rate, it didn't just come from nowhere.

From the start of this crisis, the SF/DUP government has been particularly inept.

where is this place that only SF and the DUP govern?

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

where is this place that only SF and the DUP govern?

You and Francie have been at this a couple of times. Are you saying that one party in a coalition can avoid responsibility for the actions of the coalition as a whole?

I would like this cleared up, because it has ramifications beyond this thread.

Or is it a rule that once again only applies to Sinn Fein, because they are special?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

They weren't doing better than us for a month or two.

I pointed out at the time the low levels of testing taking place in Northern Ireland due to the failure of the NI government. That gave a false picture of doing better while the virus ran wild in the community. The implications are there now with the much higher rate, it didn't just come from nowhere.

From the start of this crisis, the SF/DUP government has been particularly inept.

It isn't a SF/DUP government blanch...you cannot stamp your foot insisting on that in ordet to take potshots at your boogeymen.

NI is govern by an 'executive' with limited powers and answerable to an external government.

It is the failure of that system AGAIN here that brings a threat to the people of NI and the rest of the island.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't a SF/DUP government blanch...you cannot stamp your foot insisting on that in ordet to take potshots at your boogeymen.

NI is govern by an 'executive' with limited powers and answerable to an external government.

It is the failure of that system AGAIN here that brings a threat to the people of NI and the rest of the island.

Francie, I am criticising them for things that are well within their power or that should be well within their power.

You are making excuses that don't stand up.

I have argued for a long time that the sectarian parties are derelict in their refusal to govern in areas such as education, health, social welfare (sorry, they voluntarily gave that away, creating the situation they are now in), where they have a load of scope. They have more powers than Scotland, but are making a bigger mess.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/northern-ireland-assembly#:~:text=The%20Northern%20Ireland%20Assembly%20is,meets%20at%20Parliament%20Buildings%2C%20Belfast.

"The Northern Ireland Assembly is the devolved legislature for Northern Ireland. It has the power to make laws in a wide range of areas, including housing, employment, education, health, agriculture and the environment. It meets at Parliament Buildings, Belfast."