The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2020 6:25pm

Kowerski wrote: »

Was he? the people of cavan seem to disagree

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/gaa-activity-seen-as-a-major-reason-for-cavan-covid-surge-1.4381130

Can you not even read to the byline?

Locals point to celebrations after county final

Parties are the problem...not matches.

tipptom · 17-10-2020 6:29pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have been astonished by your reaction to my post.

Firstly, I do not consider the word "refugee" to be either derogatory or racist. I welcome refugees to Ireland, I consider them equal human beings. That it might be considered an insulting term never even entered my mind - I don't understand your mindset in this regard.

Secondly, if I am talking about fellow Irish people as you state, then, by definition, the statement cannot be racist. The definition of racism is contained in the Equal Status Acts:

http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2000/act/8/revised/en/html

"that they are of different race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origins (the “ground of race”),"

Thats big of you to consider refugees equal human beings.

No one believes you to be Irish or a supporter of the Green party.

Kowerski · 17-10-2020 6:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you not even read to the byline?

Parties are the problem...not matches.

Are you from Cavan?

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2020 6:48pm

Kowerski wrote: »

Are you from Cavan?

Nope

Odhinn · 17-10-2020 6:51pm

Kowerski wrote: »

Are you from Cavan?

He can't be from Cavan, as its just a myth to frighten disobedient children.

rdwight · 17-10-2020 7:22pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So Carthy was right about matches then. There is nothng to suggest they are the problem.

The 'afters' are the same as any social gathering.

McMurphy wrote: »

To be fair to Carthy, t's not the GAA matches, it's the people who go to others homes to celebrate afterwards, Rangers beat Celtic earlier, you can bet your mortgage that there will be rangers fans congregating and partying tonight in each others homes. Should we ban Scottish football too?

Lads, lads, lads, you're doing yourselves an injustice by such a lame argument. Tellingly, Carthy didn't make that obvious distinction between matches/afters, presumably in case he might have to opine that matches should be called off because of associated superspreader events. If he had even said we should look for ways to hold matches without pre/post match mingling, then I wouldn't have a problem.

What he actually said, by the way, is

"if there is evidence that GAA matches taking place this weekend are going to lead to an increase in cases or going to pose a public health risk, then they should be cancelled. I don’t have that evidence"

.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2020 7:27pm

rdwight wrote: »

Lads, lads, lads, you're doing yourselves an injustice by such a lame argument. Tellingly, Carthy didn't make that the obvious distinction between matches/afters, presumably in case he might have to opine that matches should be called off because of associated superspreader events.

What he actually said, by the way, is

"if there is evidence that GAA matches taking place this weekend are going to lead to an increase in cases or going to pose a public health risk, then they should be cancelled. I don’t have that evidence"

???

Is he not saying they should be cancelled if there is evidence they will lead to a public health risk?

Not sure what your gripe is.

McMurphy · 17-10-2020 7:34pm

rdwight wrote: »

What he actually said, by the way, is

"if there is evidence that GAA matches taking place this weekend are going to lead to an increase in cases or going to pose a public health risk, then they should be cancelled. I don’t have that evidence"

.

Where is the evidence that they are? Is there details of a publicly announced get together in someone's gaff, or a temporary put-together shebeen?

Is there any evidence if matches were cancelled they'd not be congregating and partying for some other reason anyways?

Just like yesterday evening, I don't think you have the point you think you do.

blanch152 · 17-10-2020 7:40pm

McMurphy wrote: »

Where is the evidence that they are? Is there details of a publicly announced get together in someone's gaff, or a temporary put-together shebeen?

Is there any evidence if matches were cancelled they'd not be congregating and partying for some other reason anyways?

Just like yesterday evening, I don't think you have the point you think you do.

https://www.the42.ie/gaa-cancel-club-activity-5223953-Oct2020/

To be fair, here is the GAA themselves on the subject.

"A statement released to clubs says that the association has taken this decision following “a number of incidents” in relation to post-match celebrations and “a lack of social distancing” at recent games."

The GAA would hardly cancel matches if there wasn't a problem?

Truthvader · 17-10-2020 8:11pm

Re the "Rangers win" post above. Again as the question whether it is true that nationalist areas are 6 times as infected. Seems extraordinary if true given that nationalist are still the minority. The majority I assume are playing their own sports and celebrating etc. Why????

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2020 8:20pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Re the "Rangers win" post above. Again as the question whether it is true that nationalist areas are 6 times as infected. Seems extraordinary if true given that nationalist are still the minority. The majority I assume are playing their own sports and celebrating etc. Why????

It's a dangerous and sectatian hate comment.
Unless people are asked their religion at testing there is no way of knowing.

Ignore it, it was said to rile and inflame.

Truthvader · 17-10-2020 8:23pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a dangerous and sectatian hate comment.
Unless people dpare asked their religion at testing there is no way of knowing.

Ignore it, it was said to rile and inflame.

Yep, probably right as it defied all logic

blanch152 · 17-10-2020 8:30pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a dangerous and sectatian hate comment.
Unless people are asked their religion at testing there is no way of knowing.

Ignore it, it was said to rile and inflame.

It should be relatively easy to dismantle as an argument.

As in Ireland, the breakdown by local electoral area should be available in the North. Therefore, it should be easy for those who wish to refute the DUP guy to produce the statistics by local electoral area to show that there is little difference between nationalist-dominated and unionist-dominated areas in respect of the rate per 100,000.

rdwight · 17-10-2020 8:36pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

???

Is he not saying they should be cancelled if there is evidence they will lead to a public health risk?

Not sure what your gripe is.

McMurphy wrote: »

Where is the evidence that they are? Is there details of a publicly announced get together in someone's gaff, or a temporary put-together shebeen?

Is there any evidence if matches were cancelled they'd not be congregating and partying for some other reason anyways?

Just like yesterday evening, I don't think you have the point you think you do.

Carthy was asked if he thought this weekend's games should be called off. There were any number of ways he could have answered in a way that showed some decisiveness or leadership.

Ranging from:
"It's unfair to expect young lads still pumped on adrenaline after representing their county to quietly go their separate ways after a game so regretfully I think we should postpone the games"

to:
"The problems we know about have stemmed from club final celebrations. There will be less of a problem after national league games. Given the uplift watching games on TV can have for people at this time, I think on balance we should let the games go ahead and I implore everybody involved to be as careful as possible"

Instead he equivocated. He doesn't have evidence. Apparently he is one of the few people in Ireland who doesn't know that yes holding GAA games can cause a problem but the dangers are reduced if after match mingling is minimised.

Doing what SF do best: pucking the sliotar up and down the sideline waiting for one of the senior hurlers to make a mistake that can be commented on.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2020 8:36pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It should be relatively easy to dismantle as an argument.

As in Ireland, the breakdown by local electoral area should be available in the North. Therefore, it should be easy for those who wish to refute the DUP guy to produce the statistics by local electoral area to show that there is little difference between nationalist-dominated and unionist-dominated areas in respect of the rate per 100,000.

No you couldnt do it by looking at the electoral area unless you asked the political or religious preferences of those testing positive.

More rubbish talk to defend the sectarianising of the virus. No surprise who is at it here.

Truthvader · 17-10-2020 8:36pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It should be relatively easy to dismantle as an argument.

As in Ireland, the breakdown by local electoral area should be available in the North. Therefeore, it should be easy for those who wish to refute the DUP guy to produce the statistics by local electoral area to show that there is little difference between nationalist-dominated and unionist-dominated areas in respect of the rate per 100,000.

Still makes no sense though so very unlikely to be true - even if some wise and just DUP member said it. So evidence???

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2020 8:43pm

rdwight wrote: »

Carthy was asked if he thought this weekend's games should be called off. There were any number of ways he could have answered in a way that showed some decisiveness or leadership.

Ranging from:
"It's unfair to expect young lads still pumped on adrenaline after representing their county to quietly go their separate ways after a game so regretfully I think we should postpone the games"

to:
"The problems we know about have stemmed from club final celebrations. There will be less of a problem after national league games. Given the uplift watching games on TV can have for people at this time, I think on balance we should let the games go ahead and I implore everybody involved to be as careful as possible"

Instead he equivocated. He doesn't have evidence. Apparently he is one of the few people in Ireland who doesn't know that yes holding GAA games can cause a problem but the dangers are reduced if after match mingling is minimised.

Doing what SF do best: pucking the sliotar up and down the sideline waiting for one of the senior hurlers to make a mistake that can be commented on.

So saying they should be cancelled if the evidence shows they could lead to a problem is fence sitting?

Are you for real? Did you tlak yourself into corner and are going to insist on your point anyway?

blanch152 · 17-10-2020 9:14pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Still makes no sense though so very unlikely to be true - even if some wise and just DUP member said it. So evidence???

Well, that's the point I am making, you can make a fool of him by digging up the local electoral area data. We all know that the North is still divided along apartheid lines with many electoral areas almost completely dominated by one side or the other. If there is no difference between the rates in the different electoral areas, then there is no basis to what he says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_wards_of_Belfast

For example, take a look at this list.

Court is 92.7% Protestant and Victoria is 87% Protestant.
Lower Falls is 96.2% Catholic and Upper Falls is 95.5% Catholic.

If the numbers in those four districts from the same city are all more or less the same, then there is nothing to what the DUP guy has said. That should be easily proven, and someone more familiar than me with the NI health data should be able to dig it out and prove him wrong.

I don't understand the reluctance to look at the data.

Randy Archer · 18-10-2020 11:43am

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Reading the last couple of pages, one certain poster made a disgraceful comment and yet is allowed stand by the mods. Another keyboard warrior who would not have the backbone to go into any nationalist area and call them "refugees".
I'll leave it at that because if I say anything, I'll get a ban

The comments are supported with facts !

As for the refugee term, how hilarious that he Take “offence” To divert from the truth

These pages are full of claims from typical Shinner’s dictionary about “occupied territory””, “oppression” and “persecution” from the Brits .... all of which are connected to the term “refugees”

The term clearly refers specifically to Shinners and not Irish nationalists up North who don’t go on like they do, when they are clearly trying to justify (but Deny doing it) the post 1980 violence of the IRA .

Northern Ireland and its majority is British , something Shinners don’t like acknowledging . No amount of waffle about sizeable minorities (those who claim to be Irish, yet don’t live in Ireland) changes that fact - neither of whom even have a right to vote in ANY Irish election

NI does not do PR - a fact and something some Shinners have proven not to understand as per these very threads

Facts do not care for feelings . Sorry .

Randy Archer · 18-10-2020 11:46am

UDAWINNER wrote: »

wouldn't dare, safe behind his keyboard

Why ? Would ye round up in squads of 5 , make the “do youse know who I am , hi” and knee cap them for not agreeing with you ? Pretty much what your pals tried to do with multiple ex SF councillors (not knee capping obviously)

Why would anyone fear stating facts to you lot ?

Ye lads don’t tend to do much in person ,alone ,either !

Pathetic little threat by the way , and I wouldn’t assume anything if I were you

Truthvader · 18-10-2020 11:55am

Randy Archer wrote: »

The comments are supported with facts !

As for the refugee term, how hilarious that he Take “offence” To divert from the truth

These pages are full of claims from typical Shinner’s dictionary about “occupied territory””, “oppression” and “persecution” from the Brits .... all of which are connected to the term “refugees”

The term clearly refers specifically to Shinners and not Irish nationalists up North who don’t go on like they do, when they are clearly trying to justify (but Deny doing it) the post 1980 violence of the IRA .

Northern Ireland and its majority is British , something Shinners don’t like acknowledging . No amount of waffle about sizeable minorities (those who claim to be Irish, yet don’t live in Ireland) changes that fact - neither of whom even have a right to vote in ANY Irish election

NI does not do PR - a fact and something some Shinners have proven not to understand as per these very threads

Facts do not care for feelings . Sorry .

Indeed. The all round hero of the revolution, Bobby Storey, ended his days in hospital on the mainland being cared for by the people of a different jurisdiction he and devoted his life to killing

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2020 12:02pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

The comments are supported with facts !

As for the refugee term, how hilarious that he Take “offence” To divert from the truth

These pages are full of claims from typical Shinner’s dictionary about “occupied territory””, “oppression” and “persecution” from the Brits .... all of which are connected to the term “refugees”

The term clearly refers specifically to Shinners and not Irish nationalists up North who don’t go on like they do, when they are clearly trying to justify (but Deny doing it) the post 1980 violence of the IRA .

Northern Ireland and its majority is British , something Shinners don’t like acknowledging . No amount of waffle about sizeable minorities (those who claim to be Irish, yet don’t live in Ireland) changes that fact - neither of whom even have a right to vote in ANY Irish election

NI does not do PR - a fact and something some Shinners have proven not to understand as per these very threads

Facts do not care for feelings . Sorry .

Where does any shinner deny the choice of identity of people on this island?

Any examples or are you just having another non factual rant?

Truthvader · 18-10-2020 12:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where does any shinner deny the choice of identity of people on this island?

Any examples or are you just having another non factual rant?

Well - 30 years killing people who wanted to be British

Randy Archer · 18-10-2020 12:24pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where does any shinner deny the choice of identity of people on this island?

Any examples or are you just having another non factual rant?

Another non factual rant &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834; you have a marvellous imagination and ability in believing in fairy tales as proven in your laughable attempt to teach Constitutional law , history and business to me in the last thread and got royally exposed . Bigly . Step down lad , only so many times you can go running to the mods with your “facts”

Ah, you claiming or determining anything that is fact.. good one Francie, haven’t you not learned from the last thread how out of your depth you are .? It didn’t work out well for you then, and as far as I see with your dealings with others on this thread, it isn’t going well for you now

Now, What facts do you dispute now ?

Northern Ireland is British ? No PR in Northern Ireland? Irish in the North can’t vote in Any Irish elections ? Shinners have proven to have a woeful grasp of understanding our PR system ?

The last post specifically concerned A response the outrage (Which i believe and no doubt more educated posters here would too, was a disingenuous attempt to divert from reality - you Shinners are good at that ) to the term “refugee” which was a clear and justified dig at Shinners and no one else up North . Seriously , get an adult to help you read .

Shinners most certainly have tried to deny the choice of identity of people “on this island”

They have done so by supporting the IRA who sought by force to remove British rule, which has been in place by law and the will of the majority of the people in the Six Counties ,who see themselves as British , since 1920 . They have been up to their necks in sectarian division with the other side (and they are no better) since the creation of the North . Now a days they pretend to be all inclusive but that’s rather hard when they still have within their ranks men who did the violence against the other people eg Gerry Kelly and another guy who seems to not be aware of who he was for the past 50 years despite the rest of Belfast and the island knowing damn well who he was (Wee “Jarry”)

What about what about ? SDLP never felt the need to revert to violence when the other side tried to deny their right to exist as Catholics of the Irish Nationalist and Irish Republican persuasion and they were making ground and getting success

Randy Archer · 18-10-2020 12:29pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Well - 30 years killing people who wanted to be British

He really fell flat on his face with that one lol . Expect whataboutry in 5-4-3-2-1 . Not to mention the “ya wouldn’t say that to my face” jargon (that wouldn’t come from Francie, mind the way, he’s a Southerner too so he hasn’t being that indoctrinated on the auld subtle threats )

Sinn Fein HQ seriously have to start sending out directives to their online fan base. Less is more . They (The fan base) are so out of their depth when it comes to facts and it only hurts their party more

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2020 1:49pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

Another non factual rant �� you have a marvellous imagination and ability in believing in fairy tales as proven in your laughable attempt to teach Constitutional law , history and business to me in the last thread and got royally exposed . Bigly . Step down lad , only so many times you can go running to the mods with your “facts”

Ah, you claiming or determining anything that is fact.. good one Francie, haven’t you not learned from the last thread how out of your depth you are .? It didn’t work out well for you then, and as far as I see with your dealings with others on this thread, it isn’t going well for you now

Now, What facts do you dispute now ?

Northern Ireland is British ? No PR in Northern Ireland? Irish in the North can’t vote in Any Irish elections ? Shinners have proven to have a woeful grasp of understanding our PR system ?

The last post specifically concerned A response the outrage (Which i believe and no doubt more educated posters here would too, was a disingenuous attempt to divert from reality - you Shinners are good at that ) to the term “refugee” which was a clear and justified dig at Shinners and no one else up North . Seriously , get an adult to help you read .

Shinners most certainly have tried to deny the choice of identity of people “on this island”

They have done so by supporting the IRA who sought by force to remove British rule, which has been in place by law and the will of the majority of the people in the Six Counties ,who see themselves as British , since 1920 . They have been up to their necks in sectarian division with the other side (and they are no better) since the creation of the North . Now a days they pretend to be all inclusive but that’s rather hard when they still have within their ranks men who did the violence against the other people eg Gerry Kelly and another guy who seems to not be aware of who he was for the past 50 years despite the rest of Belfast and the island knowing damn well who he was (Wee “Jarry”)

What about what about ? SDLP never felt the need to revert to violence when the other side tried to deny their right to exist as Catholics of the Irish Nationalist and Irish Republican persuasion and they were making ground and getting success

None of what you have posted is a denial of the right to identify as British Randy, sadly for you.

Identifying as British is not the same thing as opposing British rule. You can fulminate and rant at me all you like, it won't magic a back up of what you claimed.

blanch152 · 18-10-2020 2:25pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Still makes no sense though so very unlikely to be true - even if some wise and just DUP member said it. So evidence???

I have had a look at the available evidence.

https://www.publichealth.hscni.net/sites/default/files/2020-10/Weekly%20COVID-19%20Bulletin%20week%2041.pdf

According to the weekly bulletin, "the rates of laboratory confirmed COVID-19
cases varied from 88 per 100,000 population in Mid and East Antrim council area, up to 956 per 100,000 population in Derry and Strabane council area"

This is a very crude level of measurement, unlike Ireland where statistics are available down to local electoral area, rather than local council area (another example of how Northern Ireland is managing the crisis much worse than most other places). Nevertheless, it is what it is and let's have a look.

https://www.midandeastantrim.gov.uk/council/councillors

In Mid and East Antrim, only 3 out of 40 councillors are Sinn Fein or SDLP, suggesting a very low proportion of nationalists. That council has the lowest rate.

http://meetings.derrycityandstrabanedistrict.com/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1

In Derry and Strabane, 11 out of 40 councillors are from DUP, Alliance and UUP, on the face of it a much more nationalist area.

It has to be said that the bare statistics back the DUP man up. However, there are a few caveats to that. Mid and East Antrim is more rural than Derry and Strabane, and that may explain a large amount of the discrepancy. Secondly, aross a whole council is a large area to be able to make such conclusions. As I referenced in an earlier post, data by local electoral area would be able to nail the statistics much better.

If this was a FactCheck of the DUP's assertions, it would be that there is evidence to support the argument, but it is not proven.

From an epidemiological viewpoint, it is important that we understand why this is happening. Previous investigations of different prognosis along racial lines have led to findings that Vitamin D levels and blood types may play a role in the seriousness of the illness (rather than race), and are leading to better understanding of the disease.

Getting a handle firstly on the facts around differing levels of infection in different areas and then exploring the reasons for the differences if any is vitally important to living long-term with the disease.

Truthvader · 18-10-2020 2:44pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have had a look at the available evidence.

https://www.publichealth.hscni.net/sites/default/files/2020-10/Weekly%20COVID-19%20Bulletin%20week%2041.pdf

According to the weekly bulletin, "the rates of laboratory confirmed COVID-19
cases varied from 88 per 100,000 population in Mid and East Antrim council area, up to 956 per 100,000 population in Derry and Strabane council area"

This is a very crude level of measurement, unlike Ireland where statistics are available down to local electoral area, rather than local council area (another example of how Northern Ireland is managing the crisis much worse than most other places). Nevertheless, it is what it is and let's have a look.

https://www.midandeastantrim.gov.uk/council/councillors

In Mid and East Antrim, only 3 out of 40 councillors are Sinn Fein or SDLP, suggesting a very low proportion of nationalists. That council has the lowest rate.

http://meetings.derrycityandstrabanedistrict.com/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1

In Derry and Strabane, 11 out of 40 councillors are from DUP, Alliance and UUP, on the face of it a much more nationalist area.

It has to be said that the bare statistics back the DUP man up. However, there are a few caveats to that. Mid and East Antrim is more rural than Derry and Strabane, and that may explain a large amount of the discrepancy. Secondly, aross a whole council is a large area to be able to make such conclusions. As I referenced in an earlier post, data by local electoral area would be able to nail the statistics much better.

If this was a FactCheck of the DUP's assertions, it would be that there is evidence to support the argument, but it is not proven.

From an epidemiological viewpoint, it is important that we understand why this is happening. Previous investigations of different prognosis along racial lines have led to findings that Vitamin D levels and blood types may play a role in the seriousness of the illness (rather than race), and are leading to better understanding of the disease.

Getting a handle firstly on the facts around differing levels of infection in different areas and then exploring the reasons for the differences if any is vitally important to living long-term with the disease.

Just think this is a dangerous and petty route to go down without any clear goal in mind. Imagine if, unlikely as it seems, you are right. The can of worms opens then and the reasons are because the Brits are conspiring to kill Catholics, because Catholics are subhuman and unable to take instriction, because Catholics dont wash, because Protestants have etc etc etc. Even if correct superficially there is self evidentally something more at play. And I still dont believe it.

blanch152 · 18-10-2020 2:52pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Just think this is a dangerous and petty route to go down without any clear goal in mind. Imagine if, unlikely as it seems, you are right. The can of worms opens then and the reasons are because the Brits are conspiring to kill Catholics, because Catholics are subhuman and unable to take instriction, because Catholics dont wash, because Protestants have etc etc etc. Even if correct superficially there is self evidentally something more at play. And I still dont believe it.

That would be a very dangerous road to go down, all right.

However, the rules for pubs are the same, the rules for shops are the same, the rules for schools are the same etc. We should be seeing the same rates.

The differences could be in other areas. For example, if the higher rates in nationalist areas are due to private parties in homes to celebrate communions and confirmations, then there are certain public health lessons - ban private gatherings in households, but don't close pubs and restaurants. If it is down to crowded parties in clubhouses to celebrate GAA matches, then the lesson may be to close pubs but keep open shops, hairdressers etc. and other controlled scenarios.

Ignoring the difference doesn't help anyone. Finding the reason for the difference and taking the public health lessons from it benefits everyone. Simple as.

jh79 · 18-10-2020 2:59pm

While i haven't looked into it my instinct is that the Irish and British races are not different enough in DNA terms to cause a difference.

I'd say if you added in socio economic factors the differences would be a lot smaller. The BAME community in the rest of the UK were disproportionately affected by COVID and the consensus is that it was due economic factors.

The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

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