Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2020/21- Mod Notes OP [17/10/20]

Nice to get the win yesterday, playing with dominance and some style. That 2nd goal, just fúcking disgusting.

We played top stuff from defence to attack, all very positive...in isolation.

As others have pointed out though, overall our season performances so far have been so poor, not even mixed. We were blessed to get the win against Brighton and not be down by a few goals in that game. Yesterday was our first deserved, convincing win out of 4 league games so far. Overall, it was merely a necessary response after the Spurs mauling.

Long season ahead and there are plenty of opportunities to make up ground for the early setbacks. Looking at yesterday's game in isolation, I would have confidence in us making up that ground and more. Overall though, 3/4 of our games have been poor to shocking, and our performances post-Lockdown have been very mixed in general.

I definitely take joy from yesterday's win, and other results elsewhere. It'll just take more for me than one game to restore any faith in Ole's project.

DM_7

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

With the form Mata is in he deserves to be starting games more often. I'd be interested to see how a lineup like this could perform:



I know the main argument against the diamond is what's required from the fullbacks to cover the wings. But any 2 from Greenwood, Rashford and Martial could be played as split strikers to help cover the wide areas up top. Also Fernandes and Van de Beek have the pace and ability to cover the space on the right and left.

In midfield Fernandes and Mata could interchange and Van de Beek would be capable of dropping back to support Matic/McTominay when required.

It would be good to see a selection like that in some games. I think it has weaknesses that would be exposed where teams expect that selection on a regular basis. I think it would be too dependant on the players doing things they see rather than a sound structure.

I think, based on previous games and yesterday that the two CMs are important for United early on and to have options to make adjustment later. It offers much more protection to defence and leaves United far less susceptible to conceding goals that undermine the attacking approach.

It should provide easier opportunities to make triangles and passing options for the CBs without the attacking players having to drop deep so often, instead they can search for spaces in between lines and attacks can progress quicker

United get a platform for the full backs to get forward and therefore a Mata to move inside into the central areas when United have the ball. This gives so many more options when passing the ball than is the RB is 20 yards behind the ball. Long before his goal we saw AWB positioned much further up the pitch in the knowledge he had a CM to cover for him directly or get into the back line is a CB moved out, delay attacks while he recovered his defensive position.

Two CMs will also give a chance to get progressive and efficient players into the side. Unlike when Greenwood and AWB play from the right, Mata makes progressive passes on a repeated basis and get his team between lines. I think all of Mata, Bruno and Donny is probably one too many while keeping one back is better for squad rotation and introducing one player later in a game also has merit in the modern game.


https://twitter.com/utdarena/status/1317573272649846784?s=20

Mata had a great game, and has been showing good in most of his appearances since earlier in the year. This is very welcome after about 2 years where he offered little.

His work and the assist for Bruno's disallowed goal was just short of perfect. He could have been onside and still made that layoff, he was just unlucky not getting back out with the Newcastle line.

Dave0301

Deleted User wrote: »

Mata had a great game, and has been showing good in most of his appearances since earlier in the year. This is very welcome after about 2 years where he offered little.

His work and the assist for Bruno's disallowed goal was just short of perfect. He could have been onside and still made that layoff, he was just unlucky not getting back out with the Newcastle line.

An upturn in form and playing more centrally is no surprise. Also, having Bruno playing means there is another intelligent footballer on the same wavelength as him.

Whatsisname

To say things like “PSG is a free hit” is an embarrassing indictment of the club right now. Yes, we’re all aware of our shortcomings over the last 7 years, and how far we’ve fallen from where we were, and now aspire to be at. But comments like that, and acceptance of that position are a credit to how well the Glazers/Woodward have managed to lower expectations for the fans. Never would you hear a Madrid/Barca or Bayern fan talk like that.

Sand

Whatsisname wrote: »

To say things like “PSG is a free hit” is an embarrassing indictment of the club right now. Yes, we’re all aware of our shortcomings over the last 7 years, and how far we’ve fallen from where we were, and now aspire to be at. But comments like that, and acceptance of that position are a credit to how well the Glazers/Woodward have managed to lower expectations for the fans. Never would you hear a Madrid/Barca or Bayern fan talk like that.

It really isnt tbf. If people are going into the PSG game thinking its a game where United are anything other than underdogs, they must perceive some alternate reality. Acknowledging where United currently are is not accepting it.

StringerBell

Sand wrote: »

It really isnt tbf. If people are going into the PSG game thinking its a game where United are anything other than underdogs, they must perceive some alternate reality. Acknowledging where United currently are is not accepting it.

Taking it as a free hit is something quite different to saying we are underdogs though.

El Gato De Negocios

StringerBell wrote: »

Taking it as a free hit is something quite different to saying we are underdogs though.

Precisely.

Ole has had a free hit for almost two years, these are the games that show what the team is made of.

I'm not expecting us to win but I damn well hope we have a go.

The first test we had in the EL last season the lines were fluffed, a bad loss could be more detrimental than a good win against a poor Newcastle team was beneficial.

Sand

StringerBell wrote: »

Taking it as a free hit is something quite different to saying we are underdogs though.

Underdogs was just me being kind. United getting anything out of the PSG away game in 2019 was seen as almost a footballing miracle. And the team is arguably weaker now.

There's no point wondering what Madrid, Barca or Bayern fans may or may not say. Despite the difficulties of Barca, they are well run football clubs that compete for domestic and European titles. United is not and does not and hasn't for 7 years. It would be good to get a result, but its not how the season is going to be judged.

StringerBell

PSG are no world beaters either I get told, French league and all that. They have players that can hurt for sure but are they any better than City? Liverpool? Are those games also free hits? Was Spurs a free hit? I don't get it I suppose. PSG are a good team, you want to be in the CL to play against good teams, you become better by competing with the best. At Manchester United there should be no such thing as a free hit, I can guarantee you Ole wouldn't say or be looking at the game as a free hit even. If United play at a high level they can trouble anybody, we have seen that.

Theres an even more bizarre angle or tangent I could go down but won't, just don't have the energy today!

Excuse after excuse for Ole

When every other manager before him was hammered for less

It's make or break for Ole this season, honeymoon period is well over

Sand

StringerBell wrote: »

PSG are no world beaters either I get told, French league and all that. They have players that can hurt for sure but are they any better than City? Liverpool? Are those games also free hits? Was Spurs a free hit? I don't get it I suppose. PSG are a good team, you want to be in the CL to play against good teams, you become better by competing with the best. At Manchester United there should be no such thing as a free hit, I can guarantee you Ole wouldn't say or be looking at the game as a free hit even. If United play at a high level they can trouble anybody, we have seen that.

Theres an even more bizarre angle or tangent I could go down but won't, just don't have the energy today!

You'd have to ask the original poster what he means by free hit, but from my perspective you don't push any players to be available if they're feeling knocks, you setup to defend and hopefully hit on the counter and you mentally prepare the players that they may get well beaten but to shrug it off. This is an ideal game for McTominay in that it plays to his strengths (winning back the ball) and likely wont demand too much of him (actually having the ball).

PSG away is not a must win game (can still easily qualify for knockout stages regardless), and so long as the team isnt humiliated as it was against Spurs, the result isnt important to the season.

I understand the attitude that winning is a habit, and you want don't want to create a scenario where its okay to lose, but I'm surprised people are making a deal out what looked like a throwaway comment. People are happy enough to write off entire competitions like the Europa League and the domestic cups to focus on top 4 in the league. But all of a sudden its heresy to say one game isnt all that important to the season and should be planned accordingly?

StringerBell

Sand wrote: »

Underdogs was just me being kind. United getting anything out of the PSG away game in 2019 was seen as almost a footballing miracle. And the team is arguably weaker now.

There's no point wondering what Madrid, Barca or Bayern fans may or may not say. Despite the difficulties of Barca, they are well run football clubs that compete for domestic and European titles. United is not and does not and hasn't for 7 years. It would be good to get a result, but its not how the season is going to be judged.

Well, the poster who I was responding to has actually argued that the team is stronger now. Your argument revolves around something else. I appreciate your opinion and all but I'm pretty narrow in the scope of what I responded to, I didn't comment on any other fans or clubs.

Your debate is probably better had with someone who argues we are not underdogs or who said any of the other things in the post I'm quoting?

StringerBell

Spurs picking up where they left off before the international break it seems, really impressive attacking they are putting together there and the little tactical adjustment with Kane looks to be a winner so far.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Spurs picking up where they left off before the international break it seems, really impressive attacking they are putting together there and the little tactical adjustment with Kane looks to be a winner so far.

Negative tactics we were told from an archaic manager.
All irrelevant now though.
Just find it so odd some don't even hold half the level of criticism towards Ole this far into his tenure.

StringerBell

I'll confess I actually meant to post that in the general thread.

secman

Rose tinted glasses come to mind......

Mantis Toboggan

LOL at Spurs

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Spurs picking up where they left off before the international break it seems, really impressive attacking they are putting together there and the little tactical adjustment with Kane looks to be a winner so far.

Hahahaha they still ****e defensively obviously

Love seeing spurs **** up

StringerBell

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

LOL at Spurs

Something we can all agree on I hope!

secman

Looking like a league this season with no consistency with any team, strange results across the board.. down to no home advantage with no supporters ?

I will cringe back into a corner now lol

Tbf worked out for us in the end haha

S.M.B.

secman wrote: »

Looking like a league this season with no consistency with any team, strange results across the board.. down to no home advantage with no supporters ?

I'm in the "the PL is a lot more competitive than people give it credit for" camp but this view seems to be held by the minority.

Lord TSC

Yet another season where all the big teams are ****ting the bed early.

It nearly frustrates me more; a properly backed United manager might actually take advantage of 5at issue one of these years.

Ordinary man

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yet another season where all the big teams are ****ting the bed early.

It nearly frustrates me more; a properly backed United manager might actually take advantage of 5at issue one of these years.

It's not just england now, this weekend real madrid were beaten by cadiz, barcelona by getafe and juve only drew with crotone. A lot of crazy results all around lately

Backstreet Moyes

If we sell Pogba I really hope we go all out for Grealish

Everytime I watch Villa he is brilliant

AidoEirE

Nuts102 wrote: »

If we sell Pogba I really hope we go all out for Grealish

Everytime I watch Villa he is brilliant

Would love Rice in our midfield. Pure workhorse and would compliment whoever is beside/ in front of him.

Backstreet Moyes

AidoEirE wrote: »

Would love Rice in our midfield. Pure workhorse and would compliment whoever is beside/ in front of him.

Great midfield pairing for ireland 🀣

AidoEirE

Nuts102 wrote: »

Great midfield pairing for ireland 🀣

Ah jaysus wish people would get over it

StringerBell

AidoEirE wrote: »

Would love Rice in our midfield. Pure workhorse and would compliment whoever is beside/ in front of him.

I just do not see the hype with Rice at all.

AidoEirE

StringerBell wrote: »

I just do not see the hype with Rice at all.

I didnt at first either, watching him recently he reminds me of a Fletcher type.

Good weekend overall lads!

Enjoy MOTD2

Some lolz in their to be had also

beno619

I'm also starting to get onboard the Grealish hype train, he'd probably cost more than we could get for Pogba though.

And not to start another Pogba debate but things could get very messy if we can't find a buying for him next summer. Will anyone even want to pay £50 million when he could be signed on a free in 2022 ?

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

I'm also starting to get onboard the Grealish hype train, he'd probably cost more than we could get for Pogba though.

And not to start another Pogba debate but things could get very messy if we can't find a buying for him next summer. Will anyone even want to pay £50 million when he could be signed on a free in 2022 ?

I think Grealish is an incredible player personally.
Have thought so about 2 years ago.
I think right now he's getting the anti hype.
Only because too many English players get hyped.
I so want Pogba gone from Utd. Honestly if Utd somehow pulled off a swap deal..Pogba for Grealish

Would be the sale of the decade

pjohnson

beno619 wrote: »

I'm also starting to get onboard the Grealish hype train, he'd probably cost more than we could get for Pogba though.

And not to start another Pogba debate but things could get very messy if we can't find a buying for him next summer. Will anyone even want to pay £50 million when he could be signed on a free in 2022 ?

He'll just get a bumper blank cheque contract to stay.

Lord TSC

Didn’t Grealish just sign a new contract with Villa? Unless there’s a release clause. I can’t see him being cheaper than the 80m quoted this summer after signing a new contract....

raze_them_all_

Deleted User wrote: »

I think Grealish is an incredible player personally.
Have thought so about 2 years ago.
I think right now he's getting the anti hype.
Only because too many English players get hyped.
I so want Pogba gone from Utd. Honestly if Utd somehow pulled off a swap deal..Pogba for Grealish

Would be the sale of the decade

Yeah pogba and his agent will go, who needs real Madrid when there's Aston villa

Rock77

Champions League week!!!!!

What do we think the line up will be?

Was there any news on why Greenwood wasn’t in the squad on Sat?

Mitch Connor

Rock77 wrote: »

Was there any news on why Greenwood wasn’t in the squad on Sat?

None that I have seen, which has me worried.

Starlord_01

Rock77 wrote: »

Champions League week!!!!!

What do we think the line up will be?

Was there any news on why Greenwood wasn’t in the squad on Sat?

https://www.goal.com/en/news/solskjaer-confirms-greenwood-wasnt-fit-enough-for-man-utd-win-at-/cjj4vz8zosmq1r1yoh1f9ewgy

Strange there wasn't more detail to it.

All_in_Flynn

Seen it reported and a quote from Ole saying Greenwood had a knock. Hoping to be fit for Tuesday. Can't remember where I read it now but I defo read it last night.

raze_them_all_

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Yeah pogba and his agent will go, who needs real Madrid when there's Aston villa

Yep, why would Madrid want him?

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

None that I have seen, which has me worried.

Are we that unused to rotation now? :pac:

I was presuming that with Pogba, Greenwood and Matic all being rested, it was just with an eye on Tuesday night. I'd like to think VDB was the same. Martial getting the forced resting via suspension.

Do you guys reckon he starts Telles soon, or is Shaw locked in for a few more games?

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Are we that unused to rotation now? :pac:

I was presuming that with Pogba, Greenwood and Matic all being rested, it was just with an eye on Tuesday night. I'd like to think VDB was the same. Martial getting the forced resting via suspension.

Do you guys reckon he starts Telles soon, or is Shaw locked in for a few more games?

I just can't or couldn't see a scenario where Martial is suspended (so back to start tuesday) and greenwood is dropped from the squad for Ighalo, just in the case of him being rested. Especially if you consider he wasn't involved with the international team so effectively had a two week break. IMO he had to be injured or dropped for some other reason (not related to fitness).

I still reckon the plan for Telles is to play Shaw and Telles, at LWB and LCB respectively.

ElChe32

https://twitter.com/ManUtdMEN/status/1318191751824367620?s=20

ElChe32

ElChe32 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtdMEN/status/1318191751824367620?s=20

Greenwood also didn't travel according to the article.

Mitch Connor

Cavani is no suprise, to me anyway. Yesterday was his first time training with a group properly (and yesterday would not have been a proper session) since February.

Maguire must have an injury. seemed to be feeling his hip in his brief appearance for england, and was a doubt for newcastle. Seemed to be feeling his hip a bit in that game too. Big blow, regardless of his form.

I predict:

---

DDG
---Bailly--Lindelof-Shaw
AWB

---

Telles

---

McT---Matic

---

Bruno
----Rashford---Martial

Though the thoughts of Bailly RCB vs PSG do not bring back fond memories.

EDIT: No greenwood again.... after training all last week (as far as we know) and again yesterday. That is... worrying.

Starlord_01

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Cavani is no suprise, to me anyway. Yesterday was his first time training with a group properly (and yesterday would not have been a proper session) since February.

Maguire must have an injury. seemed to be feeling his hip in his brief appearance for england, and was a doubt for newcastle. Seemed to be feeling his hip a bit in that game too. Big blow, regardless of his form.

I predict:

---

DDG
---Bailly--Lindelof-Shaw
AWB

---

Telles

---

McT---Matic

---

Bruno
----Rashford---Martial

Though the thoughts of Bailly RCB vs PSG do not bring back fond memories.

EDIT: No greenwood again.... after training all last week (as far as we know) and again yesterday. That is... worrying.

Didn't see Bailly on that list either?!

Mitch Connor

Starlord_01 wrote: »

Didn't see Bailly on that list either?!

Oh ffs. How do we have 20 CBs in the squad and none of them available????

Maguie - injured (?)
Bailly - injured (?)
Joines - not registed - great use of fooking wages
Rojo - not registered - great use of fooking wages.

TFM, Lindelof and Shaw in a back 3? Can't see how we could go with a flat back 4 in this circumstance.

wanderer100

If Maguire is out , it’ll be interesting to see who Ole gives the captain armband too. Obvious fan choice is Bruno but I could see Ole giving it to De Gea or maybe even Rashford