Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2020/21- Mod Notes OP [17/10/20]

adox

False Prophet wrote: »

Don't disagree with you but in fairness if in the next game ole draws against arsenal you have posts from the usual suspects looking for ole out.

So that’s a no then...

DM_7

MattS1 wrote: »

We can enjoy it and we can also say Ole did a brilliant job tonight. Simple enough.

Interesting use of word simple.

Hopefully if Ole's positions is up for debate posters will look at reasons provided for views, respect people's right to an opinion and not categorise people or simplify their views as Ole out or Ole in.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

StringerBell wrote: »

Why didn't you say that then? Its simple enough?

Did it need to be said? Anyway can't be arsed arguing after a class result.

StringerBell

MattS1 wrote: »

Did it need to be said? Anyway can't be arsed arguing after a class result.

Do you forget what you posted?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115089666&postcount=9477

Anyway - Can argue another time, grand. Great result

adox

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fred involved in the 4 of the goals as well.

I still think he struggles with passing out of a press, but did well tonight when had the time to spot a pass. I think he isn't good enough to play the deep role on his own. Needs the freedom to run and press.

Agree with all that. He just helps set the tempo for the team as well as stops them slowing down. Not through his creative play but through pure endeavour and winning the ball back. Covers the ground brilliantly as well. Drives the rest of the team on.

DM_7

False Prophet wrote: »

Don't disagree with you but in fairness if in the next game ole draws against arsenal you have posts from the usual suspects looking for ole out.

Mod: cut that out. You are welcome to make a point but make it about Man Utd not your observations or predictions about the thread or what other users will post :

adox

DM_7 wrote: »

Interesting use of word simple.

Hopefully if Ole's positions is up for debate posters will look at reasons provided for views, respect people's right to an opinion and not categorise people or simplify their views as Ole out or Ole in.

Edit: actually not for tonight so deleting.

False Prophet

adox wrote: »

Delighted. Not only with the result but the performance.

Subs mostly good although I would have hooked Martial instead of Greenwood. Moot now anyway.
.

Nah , ole made the right call both for result and player management
Martial scored and created assist and created pen.
Big help for his confidence.
Taking him off when he is suspended would have been a poor man and squad management thing to do.
Plus Greenwood is fresher to start the next game.

adox

False Prophet wrote: »

Nah , ole made the right call both for result and player management
Martial scored and created assist and created pen.
Big help for his confidence.
Taking him off when he is suspended would have been a poor man and squad management thing to do.
Plus Greenwood is fresher to start the next game.

Obviously I disagree. I didn’t think Martial played well and thought Greenwood was good overall.


The game was still tight at that stage and chances were scarce for Utd. If one came I’d have preferred someone there who I would trust most to convert.

Greenwood has had plenty of rest so don’t buy that.

As I said in my op a moot point at this stage.

The_Kew_Tour

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fred involved in the 4 of the goals as well.

I still think he struggles with passing out of a press, but did well tonight when had the time to spot a pass. I think he isn't good enough to play the deep role on his own. Needs the freedom to run and press.

Even though I like Fred a lot I do think your spot on about his passing when under the cosh.

His touch at times can be touch heavy too but otherwise I like what he gives us and allows us to do too.. every good team has these players.

beakerjoe

Drumpot wrote: »

Highlights starting soon on virgin ... Gonna watch it again. Hopefully Ole starts with the same team.

This place would be ****e without you Drumstick.

adox

adox wrote: »

Obviously I disagree. I didn’t think Martial played well and thought Greenwood was good overall.


The game was still tight at that stage and chances were scarce for Utd. If one came I’d have preferred someone there who I would trust most to convert.

Greenwood has had plenty of rest so don’t buy that.

As I said in my op a moot point at this stage.

Was immense in the second half running in from the left, and assisted the fúck out of Rashford's final goal. I think you're being harsh.

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/ManUnitedZone_/status/1321580921120821248?s=20

Great to see.

False Prophet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Was immense in the second half running in from the left, and assisted the fúck out of Rashford's final goal. I think you're being harsh.

In fairness i persume he means at time of sub that he wasn't good.

beakerjoe

Father Hernandez wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUnitedZone_/status/1321580921120821248?s=20

Great to see.

He really is a work horse. Hes not the best player, but his effort during last season and this season has won me over.

Reminds me of Alan Smith in that regard. Makes up for what he lacks with hard work.

Man with broke phone

Great game, great use of the squad, tactics spot on and Donny played 60 minutes or so to let his legend die down a bit and make people realise ge is but a man.

Good game in fairness to him. Bissaka is an animal. Pogba moved the ball fast and tackled. Good all round. Shaw stands off too much allows the cross or shot.

beakerjoe

beakerjoe wrote: »

He really is a work horse. Hes not the best player, but his effort during last season and this season has won me over.

Reminds me of Alan Smith in that regard. Makes up for what he lacks with hard work.

what does he lack. technically he is very good on the ball, great presser and tackler.

he is prone to some silly mistakes but they seem to be becoming less and less

chips1234

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Great game, great use of the squad, tactics spot on and Donny played 60 minutes or so to let his legend die down a bit and make people realise ge is but a man.

Good game in fairness to him. Bissaka is an animal. Pogba moved the ball fast and tackled. Good all round. Shaw stands off too much allows the cross or shot.

actually thought shaw had a pretty good game tonight, highlight being him almost knocking poulsen out early on think i remember him putting some decent deliveries into the box as well, i still dont want him in the team but cant fault him tonight.

False Prophet

Shaw had a good game for me. Good freekicks and open play crosses as well as very comfortable on the ball and beating the press.

Man with broke phone

False Prophet wrote: »

Shaw had a good game for me. Good freekicks and open play crosses as well as very comfortable on the ball and beating the press.

At one stage he stood off a fella who was about to shoot from 8 yards out, when deGea saved he fist bumped him like it was a tactic all along. He is the complete opposite of Bissaka. If they cross it or shoot its fine so long as they dont beat him one on one. They cant do that if he stands a metre off them at all times.
Watch out for it, its not a new thing.

S.M.B.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what does he lack. technically he is very good on the ball, great presser and tackler

A consistent first touch and a real good sense of spatial awareness. Probably the main reasons behind the odd error when put under pressure in a press.

I thought he did great today though.

S.M.B.

S.M.B. wrote: »

A consistent first touch and a real good sense of spatial awareness. Probably the main reasons behind the odd error when put under pressure in a press.

I thought he did great today though.

Ya thats fair, I do wonder are those things down to concentration though or what, cause its not like he is always getting caught when players blind side him when pressing.

Like he certainly seems to have cleaned up his game a lot but its by no means perfect.

But he is certainly much better then just a work house, like he is technically bery very good, but inconsistent i guess.

beakerjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

what does he lack. technically he is very good on the ball, great presser and tackler.

he is prone to some silly mistakes but they seem to be becoming less and less

I feel his passing is basic. Fine playing a sideways 10 yard pass, but he plays very few creative passes going forward. His shooting is a abysmal, Id love to see him add some goals to his game as he usually finds himself in hood positions on 18 yard boxes.

beakerjoe

beakerjoe wrote: »

He really is a work horse. Hes not the best player, but his effort during last season and this season has won me over.

Reminds me of Alan Smith in that regard. Makes up for what he lacks with hard work.

I suppose the real issue with the above is the cost.

A work horse with poor passing should never have been bought for circa 50 million or whatever it was exactly.

His price will always make his criticism more profound.

PARlance

beakerjoe wrote: »

I feel his passing is basic. Fine playing a sideways 10 yard pass, but he plays very few creative passes going forward. His shooting is a abysmal, Id love to see him add some goals to his game as he usually finds himself in hood positions on 18 yard boxes.

Think your expectations may be unrealistic. He's a high energy DM who breaks up and intercepts play very well. Playing the simple ball to the more creative players ahead of him is pretty much the DM role... he played a few great forward passes tonight all the same.

There's not many DMs out there spraying balls all over the pitch and banging them in from outside the box. He had one chance today, made the keeper work with his weaker foot.

StringerBell

Fred looks more comfortable all the time, like he is fully settled in and feels like he is worthy himself of his place in the team. He needs to play consistently to keep that I feel which ultimately will lead to his moving on but when he is on he is great to watch, covers every blade and helps with tempo and mentality.

He looks like he belongs now is the best way I can describe it rather than the guy trying to show that he belongs. Make sense? I dunno, I'm tired at this stage! Anyway, been a defender of his and a fan of his since the very beginning of his time at the club so my opinion is nothing new on him but I'm really happy he looks like he is enjoying his football and is performing at a high level for the team. Every team needs these players

Zeek12

On Fred. He was super tonight. His selfless work ethic brings to mind guys like Park and Fletcher. And no manager can have too many of those in his squad.

I do agree as a few others have mentioned that he needs regular games. If he has some weaknesses, his passing has been pretty loose at times (though not tonight). And he’s not always comfortable receiving the ball deep from defenders against a high press.
But hopefully these are areas the coaches will work on.

As a disruptor of attacks he’s very effective. It’s no coincidence our defence is so much better since he returned to the first XI.

Dozyart

Seemingly Ole shouted for Martial to take the peno,i like that he didnt care about Rashfords hattrick and wanted to get a goal and some confidence into Martial!

Also fair play to Rashford for not telling both to get fcuked :pac:

Mantis Toboggan

Some performance from Rashers and still only 22, it's only a few years ago that Jose was telling us he's no good and was playing him left back.

S.M.B.

Dozyart wrote: »

Seemingly Ole shouted for Martial to take the peno,i like that he didnt care about Rashfords hattrick and wanted to get a goal and some confidence into Martial!

Also fair play to Rashford for not telling both to get fcuked :pac:

They showed the full clip of the lead up to the penalty on BT and it certainly made it clear that Marcus didn't offer it to Martial. He placed it on the spot with the aim of taking it but walked away, a call from the touch line makes sense. His after game interview also is more along the lines of "I was confident Anthony would score and not I wanted him to take it as he won it and could do with the goal".

To be honest I think I'm a bit happier with this narrative. Rashford wanted the goal but had no issue stepping aside when asked.

The_Kew_Tour

Fair play to Ole for actually getting structure right at the back again after the horror v Spurs.

Nipped it in the bud straight away and hopefully its him starting to react to poor situations much faster, somthing Ole been poor at in past.

That compacted formation last night worked well from offensive and defending point of view.

Now all we need is strong 11 more often starting on Sunday when take on Arsenal.

Cant wait for it now.

malinheader

S.M.B. wrote: »

They showed the full clip of the lead up to the penalty on BT and it certainly made it clear that Marcus didn't offer it to Martial. He placed it on the spot with the aim of taking it but walked away, a call from the touch line makes sense. His after game interview also is more along the lines of "I was confident Anthony would score and not I wanted him to take it as he won it and could do with the goal".

To be honest I think I'm a bit happier with this narrative. Rashford wanted the goal but had no issue stepping aside when asked.

100%.showed hes a team player and that means alot. Some players might have sulked about not being given the chance for the hat trick, but he tried even harder and was rewarded with his third. The kind of players we want.
Really looking forward to the next game, something I haven't for a while.

paulbok

jayo26 wrote: »

Or he trusts the players he has on the bench?? Big difference in having bruno, cavani, mctominay on the bench in comparison to jessie lingard, periera, chong, jones...

There is that too, but even when he had decent options previously, we wasn't using them until the game was nearly over.

S.M.B.

I was also a little gutted that Rashford was on track to join the select few of 50 PL goals before turning 23 but a pretty bad injury combined with Covid made that beyond his reach. Instead of hitting that milestone he's done fantastic work off the pitch and now has a CL hat trick to add to his list of achievements instead.

It wasn't too long ago that some thought he'd never fully recover from that double back injury and his career at the very highest level was in jeopardy.

PARlance

Will be interesting to see if or when we try 1 DM again! While formations are fairly fluid, it looked like we played 4-3-3 last night with Donny as the false 9. Very little difference between that and a 4-4-2 diamond or a few others tbh.

I expect we'll use 2 defensive minded players vs Arsenal and Everton. Would like to think that we may try 1 again vs West Brom. That could allow Pogba and Bruno either side of Fred (Matic or McTominay) with Donny playing ahead of them and 2 of Rashford, Greenwood or Martial as wide forwards.

Bruno Fred Pogba
Greenwood VDB Rashford

Would love to see how that team would do against a defensive setup. I'd love to see Bruno and VDB get time to gel, if Pogba is tuned in (which he seems to be at present) then it's a very exciting trio.

y0ssar1an22

great game last night. not a lot to say that hasn't been already said!

came across this clip last night (from march 2020). and I think its fair to say AWB is only after getting better:

Rock77

Just on Fred, in my opinion the issue is concentration.. I get very frustrated with him because he gives it away needlessly sometimes. It’s the 10 yard easy pass he misplaced that bothers me or when he has all the time in the world and still manages to give it away.

One poster already mentioned though, these things are happening less and less so hopefully he can sort out the issue because he is certainly miles better than he was in his first season.

KH25

Rock77 wrote: »

Just on Fred, in my opinion the issue is concentration.. I get very frustrated with him because he gives it away needlessly sometimes. It’s the 10 yard easy pass he misplaced that bothers me or when he has all the time in the world and still manages to give it away.

One poster already mentioned though, these things are happening less and less so hopefully he can sort out the issue because he is certainly miles better than he was in his first season.

He just lacks composure at times. He has a bit of a tendency to win the ball back and try to launch the counter, but he rushes it a bit and misplaces the pass. That’s something that can be worked on though.

yourdeadwright

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fair play to Ole for actually getting structure right at the back again after the horror v Spurs.

Nipped it in the bud straight away and hopefully its him starting to react to poor situations much faster, somthing Ole been poor at in past.

That compacted formation last night worked well from offensive and defending point of view.

Now all we need is strong 11 more often starting on Sunday when take on Arsenal.

Cant wait for it now.

Great result last night for United I think the champions league suits them better than the Prem at the moment,

PSG & Leipzeg didn't give United the respect they deserved and paid for it ,
Ole has been brilliant at setting up his team for side who will play open attacking football against them , His record against City & his two wins in Paris are great examples ,

For all the talk about Nagelsmann he was very naïve last night ,

I think Saturday is more of a test for Ole's management
Arsenal will sit in and be far more pragmatic and you'll see something similar to the Chelsea game

It'll be very interesting to see what Ole does ,

Backstreet Moyes

I have been very critical of Ole because I feel for too long he has not used the bench or been making tactical adjustments for games

Having said that I have been very impressed with PSG and last night that he has started to do it

But the league is the bread and butter it is no good winning these big games and then struggling in the league

I really hope we win the weekend and go on a good run

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

I have been very critical of Ole because I feel for too long he has not used the bench or been making tactical adjustments for games

Having said that I have been very impressed with PSG and last night that he has started to do it

But the league is the bread and butter it is no good winning these big games and then struggling in the league

I really hope we win the weekend and go on a good run

I thought vs Chelsea, while the performance was not great, it wasn't down to tactical mistakes. I thought he set up well vs chelsea starting - and I also thought he made changes, at the right time, to try win the game as well - both by subs and by formation. It didn't work out, but I personally felt United finished the stronger of the two sides and a win would have been deserved. A couple of chances at the end could have been goals another day.

kerplun k

I’d say Rashford woke up this morning feeling pretty good about himself.

Weepsie

Zeek12 wrote: »

On Fred. He was super tonight. His selfless work ethic brings to mind guys like Park and Fletcher. And no manager can have too many of those in his squad.

I do agree as a few others have mentioned that he needs regular games. If he has some weaknesses, his passing has been pretty loose at times (though not tonight). And he’s not always comfortable receiving the ball deep from defenders against a high press.
But hopefully these are areas the coaches will work on.

As a disruptor of attacks he’s very effective. It’s no coincidence our defence is so much better since he returned to the first XI.

Rock77 wrote: »

Just on Fred, in my opinion the issue is concentration.. I get very frustrated with him because he gives it away needlessly sometimes. It’s the 10 yard easy pass he misplaced that bothers me or when he has all the time in the world and still manages to give it away.

Fred is consistently one our best and most accurate passers of the ball and has been whenever he has player.

Last night was one of his worst passing performances displays in a united shirt as it happens

People have it stuck in their head that he's a bad passer and he gives it away a lot but it's untrue mostly

Mantis Toboggan

Fred is probably the player who's improved the most since Ole took over.

Whatsisname

:pac:

https://twitter.com/NoraUtd/status/1321605172976668672?s=20

yourdeadwright

kerplun k wrote: »

I’d say Rashford woke up this morning feeling pretty good about himself.

Got to say even as a Liverpool fan its impossible not to like him ,
Seems a fantastic young man and if there fans allowed at Anfield when Liverpool play United I think Rashford will get a standing ovation and rightly so ,

I see footage has emerged of the penalty and it was in fact Ole that put Marital on it
,Martial was down as the peno taker but can be seen handing it over to Rashford who thanks him but as Martial is walking off Ole screams at him to take it ,
Shows good team spirit Marital had no issues handing it over even when he needed a goal himself

Zeek12

Weepsie wrote: »

Fred is consistently one our best and most accurate passers of the ball and has been whenever he has player.

Last night was one of his worst passing performances displays in a united shirt as it happens

People have it stuck in their head that he's a bad passer and he gives it away a lot but it's untrue mostly

Pretty sure I read a stat recently he had over 200 misplaced passes last season. One of the highest in the PL for a midfielder.

I don't agree he's one of our best passers.

But his all round game last night was hugely effective. And his work rate and disruptive influence to opposition attacks are a huge addition to our midfield.

Your Airbag

Fred is a hard worker, he doesn't have great skill or vision, his passing is average enough, the odd time he pulls off a really good pass. He doesn't create through his passing but its his break up off play that starts counter attacks or stops opposition ones.


But that stuff can be invaluable, last night he was involved in four of our goals, winning the ball and then assisting the assist-er. As some have said he's in the Fletch/Park mould. He definitely deserves his place in the squad, having grafters and creators is a good balance for a midfield. He works his socks off and I can't fault him for that. Its games where we struggle to create and the opposition park the bus is where he can look poor.

Mitch Connor

Zeek12 wrote: »

Pretty sure I read a stat recently he had over 200 misplaced passes last season. One of the highest in the PL for a midfielder.

I don't agree he's one of our best passers.

But his all round game last night was hugely effective. And his work rate and disruptive influence to opposition attacks are a huge addition to our midfield.

THe last sentence is the key bit for me (and it is the same with McTominay). To get the best out of them requires allowing them to chase and press. A number of our goals were the direct result of Fred doing this.

But that also isn't a role of a DM, at least not a sole DM (with Bruno and VDB or Pogba in a 3).

Where we see issues with Fred are (imo) when he is tasked with being the primary out ball of the cbs and the conduite into midfield. When he is facing the midfield his progressive passes are very good. But when he is recieving the ball facing his own goal, I don't think he has the awareness or speed on the ball to effectively beat the press and I think his passing can let him down in those situations too.

Fred and McT are an effective duo because they share the defensive load and their workrate allows them to get about the place, but neither are effective tempo setters collecting from the defence.

IMO we need to replace Matic, and I don't think Fred of McT have the skill sets to do so - we need to buy in, imo, and we needed to do it in the summer.

Rock77

Weepsie wrote: »

Fred is consistently one our best and most accurate passers of the ball and has been whenever he has player.

Last night was one of his worst passing performances displays in a united shirt as it happens

People have it stuck in their head that he's a bad passer and he gives it away a lot but it's untrue mostly

Again it’s his concentration.. if he has 50 passes per game most will be simple say 45 of them... of those 45 simple passes he will give away 3-5 of them. These are very, very simple passes that we can’t afford to give away. So although his stats might be ok it’s infuriating to watch him do it.

He will lose the ball when he receives it from the defence in a very dangerous area at least once per game. Again not something stats will show u.