Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2020/21- Mod Notes OP [17/10/20]

Drumpot

54and56 wrote: »

Police corruption is a form of misconduct in which law enforcement officers abuse their power for personal gain.

What was or could have been the personal gain? If the police were indeed performing a corrupt act why didn't they close the deal when Harry offered them cash to make it go away? Why would corrupt police prefer to prosecute instead of taking the cash?

Corruption can also be dishonest conduct by those in power. I agree the Greek authorities potential motives to stitch him up are a bit of a mystery but it’s possible there was officers on power trips (we will show this guy who is boss) after the scuffle earlier on. Maybe the scuffle involved a police officer and they were looking to cover it up!

It’s not clear what is going on here, but what is clear is that Maguire is not taking this lieing down and if he loses the case he could lose more then he would of with a suspended sentance. He could of taken the suspended sentence and this time 3 months nobody would of rememebered. He’s chosen to drag this out for maybe years. Does a guilty person do that? Maybe one who thinks they can win the case but it’s a very bold move. If he’s innocent I think he’s absolutely correct to do what he’s doing. They’ve tried to destroy his reputation and ruin his career, why should he shut up and take it?

dave_o_brien

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever it is, its not a storm in a teacup.

A united captain had been convicted and given a conviction with suspended jail time.

And then he in turn is going national in his home country saying its all lies.

Even as I said a few days ago its going to weigh on his mind innocent or not.

So its going to effect him and the club until we get a outright conclusion.

Its a complete mess not world ending, nothing people will take into there daily lives but in footballing terms it is 100%,

While I agree with most of your post, his conviction has been quashed and he is again presumed innocent until the next hearing. The Greek legal system operates a bit differently to our own.

PARlance

PR over common sense, it's as simple as that. In most other cases you stay quiet, get your name cleared and then tell your story if you feel the need to do so.

On the day your teammate is confirmed to have Covid-19, the Club captain comes out to clear his current clear name. Priorities. Leadership.

Would be interesting to see how much say the Club had in it... I suspect a fair bit unfortunately but not surprisingly.

Drumpot

PARlance wrote: »

PR over common sense, it's as simple as that. In most other cases you stay quiet, get your name cleared and then tell your story if you feel the need to do so.

On the day your teammate is confirmed to have Covid-19, the Club captain comes out to clear his current clear name. Priorities. Leadership.

Would be interesting to see how much say the Club had in it... I suspect a fair bit unfortunately but not surprisingly.

Genuinely curious if there are examples of footballers with issues with authorities who kept their mouths shut until after their cases?

Messi/Ronaldo tax fraud? Did they profess their innocence before being found guilty? Didn’t they want their clubs to pay the bill?

Cantonas famous “when the seagulls go the the trawler” wasn’t exactly the wisest PR choice when we all saw him kung fu kick that bollox in the stands. Maybe he wasn’t professing innocence but it didn’t help the situation.I think some here are more worried about getting slagged by rival fans or how they think it looks to others (I said it before I couldn’t care less). This is the mans career, why should he shut up if he genuinely believes he is being stitched up ?

bangkok

one thing i find really strange about this, (and it might be just a boards thing) is the seemingly lack of support from some united supporters on here to maguire.

when suarez was found guilty of using racial language to evra, the liverpool fans backed him to the hilt or when he bit Ivanovic same thing, when john terry had the affair with wayne bridges missus, the chelsea fans backed him to the hilt, fans stand by their player, back him no matter what happens almost feels like some are hoping that maguire gets jail time here.

the man as it stands right now is innocent, he has zero convictions, he is free to do as he pleases, if he thinks an interview on BBC is the right thing to do, then let him do it. He has obviously been backed by the club to do it and i say fair play to him

StringerBell

I support Maguire, I also think him doing an interview like that at this point in time was a mistake.

Both positions can be held.

Using Liverpool fans defending a player when they shouldn't have is a poor example. The Terry one doesn't fit either because that would cause a dressing room issue whereas this with Harry won't cause any problems inside the dressing room presumably.

People are annoyed that the captain of the club has embarrassed himself and the club by extension. I don't hope he gets jail time, I hope he is exonerated and doesn't put himself in a position like that again.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

one thing i find really strange about this, (and it might be just a boards thing) is the seemingly lack of support from some united supporters on here to maguire.

when suarez was found guilty of using racial language to evra, the liverpool fans backed him to the hilt or when he bit Ivanovic same thing, when john terry had the affair with wayne bridges missus, the chelsea fans backed him to the hilt, fans stand by their player, back him no matter what happens almost feels like some are hoping that maguire gets jail time here.

the man as it stands right now is innocent, he has zero convictions, he is free to do as he pleases, if he thinks an interview on BBC is the right thing to do, then let him do it. He has obviously been backed by the club to do it and i say fair play to him

Agreed.

Do you know what, I have many issues with the owners and how they have been running the football side of the club. But they know how to market the club and are exceptional at PR. If they cleared him to do the interview, they are behind him (whether guilty or not) but think the interview is better then no interview. That’s a pretty good endorsement.

Drumpot

StringerBell wrote: »

I support Maguire, I also think him doing an interview like that at this point in time was a mistake.

Both positions can be held.

Why do you believe it is a mistake?

Unless he’s found guilty , what does he lose by professing his innocence and telling his side of events ?

S.M.B.

bangkok wrote: »

one thing i find really strange about this, (and it might be just a boards thing) is the seemingly lack of support from some united supporters on here to maguire.

when suarez was found guilty of using racial language to evra, the liverpool fans backed him to the hilt or when he bit Ivanovic same thing, when john terry had the affair with wayne bridges missus, the chelsea fans backed him to the hilt, fans stand by their player, back him no matter what happens almost feels like some are hoping that maguire gets jail time here.

I, and a few others probably, always took issue with that level of tribalism. "Back him no matter what happens" is certainly not a position I'll be taking and I think the game would be better off if less people had these type attitudes.

Drumpot

S.M.B. wrote: »

I, and a few others probably, always took issue with that level of tribalism. "Back him no matter what happens" is certainly not a position I'll be taking and I think the game would be better off if less people had this attitude.

I agree but these fans backed players who obviously did what they did (racist, biting, cheating). It’s not clear with Maguire and yet some fans are taking issue with him (a potentially innocent person) defending themselves in the court of public opinion. Some of our fans are refusing to support our club captain defending himself , that’s not right.

adox

S.M.B. wrote: »

I, and a few others probably, always took issue with that level of tribalism. "Back him no matter what happens" is certainly not a position I'll be taking and I think the game would be better off if less people had these type attitudes.

Absolutely.

Using Suarez and the support he got as a reason Utd supporters should back their players no matter what is a nonsense.

Also a nonsense imo is the narrative that some supporters want him to be guilty.

Its an utterly bizarre case with some very strange stories on both sides. Maguire had been convicted of some pretty serious things before the appeal and people, rightly imo, called for the captaincy to be taken off him as a result. Others didnt think so.

The whole thing is very strange. The interview was ill advised.

StringerBell

Drumpot wrote: »

Why do you believe it is a mistake?

Unless he’s found guilty , what does he lose by professing his innocence and telling his side of events ?

The timing and the content. It's already been laid out by someone else in an earlier post who put it far better than I'll be able on my phone.

El Gato De Negocios

Drumpot wrote: »

Why do you believe it is a mistake?

Unless he’s found guilty , what does he lose by professing his innocence and telling his side of events ?

He has gone on national television and given an interview that will be broadcast across the world saying the police force of a hugely popular tourist area brutalised him and tried to end his career.

This has potentially huge ramifications. Assume the retrial will be a trial by judge? One would also assume said judge will be Greek. In most countries law enforcement and the legal system go hand in hand. Maguire publicly makes accusations about misconduct by a countries police force which potentially damages the popularity of this country for tourism if his statements are found to be true. Or, the judge decides this lad is just a typical lairy English tourist who was full of beer and tried to throw his weight around because he has money and the police force had no choice but to deal with him in the manner they did.

Regardless of whether his version is 100% accurate, why risk prejudicing your position by making public accusations like that?

One has to hope that he just took a flyer and did the interview off his own back, if someone in the club sanctioned it then they are just as idiotic as he is.

adox

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree but these fans backed players who obviously did what they did (racist, biting, cheating). It’s not clear with Maguire and yet some fans are taking issue with him (a potentially innocent person) defending themselves in the court of public opinion. Some of our fans are refusing to support our club captain defending himself , that’s not right.

He is to defend himself in court.

Questioning his TV interview is not not supporting the club captain. Its questioning his judgement and the cubs judgement in allowing to happen.


There wasnt a word from him or the club before the trial other than to say he was denying all the charges.

Drumpot

Statutory Ape wrote: »

He has gone on national television and given an interview that will be broadcast across the world saying the police force of a hugely popular tourist area brutalised him and tried to end his career.

This has potentially huge ramifications. Assume the retrial will be a trial by judge? One would also assume said judge will be Greek. In most countries law enforcement and the legal system go hand in hand. Maguire publicly makes accusations about misconduct by a countries police force which potentially damages the popularity of this country for tourism if his statements are found to be true. Or, the judge decides this lad is just a typical lairy English tourist who was full of beer and tried to throw his weight around because he has money and the police force had no choice but to deal with him in the manner they did.

Regardless of whether his version is 100% accurate, why risk prejudicing your position by making public accusations like that?

One has to hope that he just took a flyer and did the interview off his own back, if someone in the club sanctioned it then they are just as idiotic as he is.

Think this is an emotive rationalising of it. He either wins his case or he doesn’t, all the other stuff doesn’t matter.

The Greek police have been pandering to the media themselves. This is not a normal case, it’s a publicly dragged out case on front of everybody.

Again , I think some of you are more concerned with the optics (the shame!!), then the reasoning for him try to clear his name publicly and through the courts.

Drumpot

adox wrote: »

He is to defend himself in court.

Questioning his TV interview is not not supporting the club captain. Its questioning his judgement and the cubs judgement in allowing to happen.


There wasnt a word from him or the club before the trial other than to say he was denying all the charges.

You are questioning the prudency Of him defending himself publicly. That’s none of any of our concern unless we are worried about what others think.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

Think this is an emotive rationalising of it. He either wins his case or he doesn’t, all the other stuff doesn’t matter.

The Greek police have been pandering to the media themselves. This is not a normal case, it’s a publicly dragged out case on front of everybody.

Again , I think some of you are more concerned with the optics (the shame!!), then the reasoning for him try to clear his name publicly and through the courts.

nail on the head right there

S.M.B.

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree but these fans backed players who obviously did what they did (racist, biting, cheating). It’s not clear with Maguire and yet some fans are taking issue with him (a potentially innocent person) defending themselves in the court of public opinion. Some of our fans are refusing to support our club captain defending himself , that’s not right.

Fair enough, but that's very different to the level of loyal support Bangkok was demanding from fans.

Personally, I'll sit right here on the fence when it comes to my thoughts on whether that interview was a smart move or not. I simply don't have enough information and don't know Harry Maguire beyond him being a player for the team I support.

adox

Drumpot wrote: »

You are questioning the prudency Of him defending himself publicly. That’s none of any of our concern unless we are worried about what others think.

Im questioning him doing a TV interview on the national broadcaster.

He has claimed his innocence from the start so he has defended himself publicly.

Adamcp898

Drumpot wrote: »

You are questioning the prudency Of him defending himself publicly. That’s none of any of our concern unless we are worried about what others think.

That’s not it at all.

It’s about whether going to the national media as soon as you get back in the country is really the most effective way of defending yourself, publicly or otherwise?

All while an appeal is pending.


A more cynical person might construe it as a person simply attempting to gain control of the national narrative of the story.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

He's absolutely right to do an interview. He probably wants to set the record straight. Why should he have everyone talking ****e about him when he knows what happened. Probably good for him and his family to set the record straight and not let the crappy tabloids make up crazy stories about it.

Drumpot

S.M.B. wrote: »

Fair enough, but that's very different to the level of loyal support Bangkok was demanding from fans.

Personally, I'll sit right here on the fence when it comes to my thoughts on whether that interview was a smart move or not. I simply don't have enough information and don't know Harry Maguire beyond him being a player for the team I support.

That’s exactly where I am at. I don’t know if he’s done wrong or been wronged, but I don’t blame him for doing what he feels he needs to do to set the record straight.

I was thinking about it there. I can imagine a situation where it happened as he said but it wasn’t necessarily police corruption or him being totally out of order. A scuffle happens and it breaks up. He sets off home in the bus with friends. Bus driver stops in middle of nowhere and there’s a group of people (plain clothed police) standing outside (almost like a vigilante group). You are a bit drunk and prob still shaken, in a foreign country and don’t know what’s going on.

Police get heavy handed and you resist. You really don’t know what’s going on or disoriented (genuinely think you are being obducted) and offer money and resist arrest. You bang an officer out of fear. That’s not a criminal, that’s a poorly organised police stop that went pear shaped.

Also, I’ve asked this before but Maguires personality and history deserves respect when trying to work out what happened. If he was a footballer who got in trouble regularly you could argue he deserves less benenfit of doubt. But there are no stories I have read that suggest maguire has this sort of temperament. I think that’s a good barometer of how trustworthy his own reports of events should be received.

If he’s found guilty , it’s going to potentially be far worse for him. I personally think his interview is fine.

sky88

united fans have rightly ridiculed the support suarez got from liverpool fans/club i dont get just cause he plays for united we support him on this no matter what

there is some strange stuff on this that makes me question if harry is telling the truth on this

adox

You cant "put the record straight" when the trial hasnt taken place yet.

Liam O

sky88 wrote: »

united fans have rightly ridiculed the support suarez got from liverpool fans/club i dont get just cause he plays for united we support him on this no matter what

there is some strange stuff on this that makes me question if harry is telling the truth on this

I don't know really. Stuff on both sides sounds off. It's perfectly possible that both sides are exaggerating and it's somewhere in the middle imo.

Drumpot

adox wrote: »

You cant "put the record straight" when you the trial hasnt taken place yet.

Why is it bothering United fans?

If he’s potentially doing more damage to his case then that’s his problem.

He feels he needs to balance out the narrative been put out by rag media and the Greek police. He’s clearing up why he feels he has nothing to apologize about. (Didn’t Greek police publicly say he should apologize? Or something like that).

In an ideal world his court case was private and his privacy in the matter is respected. But this isn’t an ideal world or a normal case. PR and public opinion does make a difference. He’s got family and friends who will also be listening to people call him a thug or criminal until the court case.

I suppose I think there is more to this then just how it reflects on United. I think some of you are being unfair and expecting Maguire to act like a robot.

In a few days time this will be a nothing story. For the sake of a few extra days in papers he’s said what he feels he needs to say.

adox

This is a Utd forum where we give our opinions on all things Utd.

It's gonna be discussed. There will always be people with opposing opinions on most subjects.

sky88

This story is going to run till whenever the appeal trail is over i dont think this is a nothing story

and just watch us get drawn against a greek team in the champions league group stage and the media frenzy that would happen after

Drumpot

adox wrote: »

This is a Utd forum where we give our options in all things Utd.

It's gonna be discussed. There will always be people with opposing opinions on most subjects.

Im Ok discussing it. I’m Openly questioning people’s motives for reacting with negativity to Maguire's interview by asking why they care.

And I’m saying that I think it bothers them, not because they are concerned with Maguires defence in court, but because of how (in their eyes) it’s drawing negative attention to the club.

Rival fans (I only just saw the other thread on this there) appear to be just using it as an opportunity to rub it in and take a moral high ground they are in no position to take.

Cypher_sounds

Does it really matter if he’s right or wrong to do the damn interview. It’s no concern of mine.

I just hope he can improve on his performances last season. If he’s found guilty at retrial I think we can all agree that he should be sold or sacked. Any indication of when the retrial will take place?

Dave0301

MattS1 wrote: »

He's absolutely right to do an interview. He probably wants to set the record straight. Why should he have everyone talking ****e about him when he knows what happened. Probably good for him and his family to set the record straight and not let the crappy tabloids make up crazy stories about it.

Have you seen the ****é tabloids produce on mass? That interview last night won't stop them doing that.

Can appreciate him wanting to speak out if he believes he is innocent, but just let it go through the courts instead.

xtal191

Any signings? :pac:

El Gato De Negocios

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know really. Stuff on both sides sounds off. It's perfectly possible that both sides are exaggerating and it's somewhere in the middle imo.

As the saying goes, there's three sides to every story, his version, their version and the truth.

Least he didn't claim there was a one armed man on a grassy knoll.

bangkok

xtal191 wrote: »

Any signings? :pac:

loads, chelsea signed 5 already

adox

Drumpot wrote: »

Im Ok discussing it. I’m Openly questioning people’s motives for reacting with negativity to Maguire's interview by asking why they care.

And I’m saying that I think it bothers them, not because they are concerned with Maguires defence in court, but because of how (in their eyes) it’s drawing negative attention to the club.

Rival fans (I only just saw the other thread on this there) appear to be just using it as an opportunity to rub it in and take a moral high ground they are in no position to take.

Look this is just going back and forth ad nauseam. I and others have explained why we think it was a bad idea but you seem intent on finding your own reasons why we think it was.

You and others have explained why they though it was a good idea.

Cypher_sounds

xtal191 wrote: »

Any signings? :pac:

Is Ighalo staying with us or is he going back to China?

Presume we are waiting till the league starts to announce Sancho and Kane :pac:

bangkok

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Is Ighalo staying with us or is he going back to China?

Presume we are waiting till the league starts to announce Sancho and Kane :pac:

he is here until End of Jan..

Drumpot

adox wrote: »

Look this is just going back and forth ad nauseam. I and others have explained why we think it was a bad idea but you seem intent on finding your own reasons why we think it was.

You and others have explained why they though it was a good idea.

I am neutral (I dont know if it was a good or bad decision TBH) with regards as to whether it was a good idea or not but I understand why he's done it.

If he is innocent, I don't see the problem. Hes gotten legal advice and permission from the club to do the interview. Maybe if it comes out that the club/solicitors didn't want him to do it, I might see this differently, but as it stands, it looks like the professionals on his side don't think it harms his case. That's good enough for me.

Beechwoodspark

Just listening to RTÉ. Ffs ole needs to grow a pair and drop Maguire like a hot potato and sell him on - he sounds like a right gormless Rodney

We don’t need these types of distractions

bangkok

Harry Maguire when he puts England 1-0 up against Greece at Euro 2021


https://www.instagram.com/p/CEXN9ikgt37/

:pac::pac::pac:

KH25

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Is Ighalo staying with us or is he going back to China?

Presume we are waiting till the league starts to announce Sancho and Kane :pac:

Ighalo’s loan is up until January 2021 I believe.

The_Kew_Tour

Carlsberg dont do **** pre seasons but if they did......

Julez

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just listening to RTÉ. Ffs ole needs to grow a pair and drop Maguire like a hot potato and sell him on - he sounds like a right gormless Rodney

We don’t need these types of distractions

Yes he should grow a pair and throw the innocent 80m pound asset out the door.... :rolleyes:

Drumpot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Carlsberg dont do **** pre seasons but if they did......

Maybe Ole can use the Maguire thing to galvanise the squad around him ?!

When is our season starting ? I know first game was postponed, but wasnt it supposed to be scheduled for midweek (instead of League cup).

Also, just looked at the fixtures on BBC there, October in nuts, 3 out of 4 league games at home and they are against Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal!

Beechwoodspark

Julez wrote: »

Yes he should grow a pair and throw the innocent 80m pound asset out the door.... :rolleyes:

Just listen to his interview and see what you think

I’m pretty taken aback at it. Not the sharpest tool in the box, our Harry...

bangkok

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just listening to RTÉ. Ffs ole needs to grow a pair and drop Maguire like a hot potato and sell him on - he sounds like a right gormless Rodney

We don’t need these types of distractions

so you think Alex Ferguson should have sold in their prime, Roy Keane, Eric Cantona, Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Wayne Rooney, Patrice Evra etc etc as they were distractions as well?

54and56

Drumpot wrote: »

Think this is an emotive rationalising of it. He either wins his case or he doesn’t, all the other stuff doesn’t matter.

The Greek police have been pandering to the media themselves. This is not a normal case, it’s a publicly dragged out case on front of everybody.

Again , I think some of you are more concerned with the optics (the shame!!), then the reasoning for him try to clear his name publicly and through the courts.

It's the total opposite of a dragged out case, there was less than a week from arrest to being found guilty in court.

If anything not enough time was allowed for Maguire to gather whatever evidence he may have to corroborate his version of events e.g. photo's and doctors report substantiating his claim that the Greek undercover police beat him on the legs whilst shouting he'd never play again, photo's and toxicology report from his sister showing where she was injected and what with, statements from others who were in the bar/club when it all kicked off, copies of CCTV footage inside and outside the bar, witnesses from outside the Greek police station who can corroborate the events as Maguire describes them etc etc.

Magure / Utd can afford to hire the best lawyers, forensic scientists, expert witnesses etc to make as strong a defence case as possible but even with all the money and resources in the world it's hard to do so in 3-4 days.

Dave0301

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just listen to his interview and see what you think

I’m pretty taken aback at it. Not the sharpest tool in the box, our Harry...

If clubs start sacking players based on how intelligent they come across in interviews, there will be a sharp drop in squad numbers.

Weepsie

bangkok wrote: »

so you think Alex Ferguson should have sold in their prime, Roy Keane, Eric Cantona, Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Wayne Rooney, Patrice Evra etc etc as they were distractions as well?

Ehm beckham was turfed out, Keane eventually too, and they were all dropped at points too. Lee Sharpe sent in his way, Yorke and stam. Not all for footballing reasons.


Every single one of them are/were significantly better players too, and all with the exception of maybe Evra more important to the team than Maguire is and will be.

Club came first. Without exception..only Rooney towards the end seemed to get some sort of leeway as I think Ferguson thought he could protect him or something the way people said he would have Gascoigne

bangkok

Weepsie wrote: »

Ehm beckham was turfed out, Keane eventually too, and they were all dropped at points too. Lee Sharpe sent in his way, Yorke and stam. Not all for footballing reasons.


Every single one of them are/were significantly better players too, and all with the exception of maybe Evra more important to the team than Maguire is and will be.

Club came first. Without exception..only Rooney towards the end seemed to get some sort of leeway as I think Ferguson thought he could protect him or something the way people said he would have Gascoigne

my point to the OP was that fergie never got rid of them for doing something bad, was only when there were past their prime that he got rid of them. Majority of the players bar probably Beckham were past their prime and on there way down