The PGA Tour Thread

waynescales1

Wombatman wrote: »

Ball won't plug after a small hop. Think about it.

Yeah the replay shows his ball was unlikely to have been plugged, but, consider this... his ball hopped into somebody else’s plug mark, mystery solved?

Wombatman

waynescales1 wrote: »

Yeah the replay shows his ball was unlikely to have been plugged, but, consider this... his ball hopped into somebody else’s plug mark, mystery solved?

You can only get relief from your own plug mark.

CSWS101

waynescales1 wrote: »

Yeah the replay shows his ball was unlikely to have been plugged, but, consider this... his ball hopped into somebody else’s plug mark, mystery solved?

Maybe he was a bit forceful when he was picking the ball up from the plug. Wouldn't be like him

eagle eye

Hard to watch Reid winning a golf tournament.

Deeper Blue

Interesting quotes from Xander on Reed

"Obviously the talk amongst the boys isn't great, I guess, but he's protected by the Tour and that's all that matters, I guess."

Innish_Rebel

CSWS101 wrote: »

Maybe he was a bit forceful when he was picking the ball up from the plug. Wouldn't be like him

That's the thing that's annoying me - how does the ball after a bounce somehow produce enough indentation into the ground through thick rough to allow a referee feel with the tips of his fingers and agree that yes he can feel the indentation where Reeds ball was plugged/embedded.


Lets be honest that is virtually impossible...

spacecoyote

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

That's the thing that's annoying me - how does the ball after a bounce somehow produce enough indentation into the ground through thick rough to allow a referee feel with the tips of his fingers and agree that yes he can feel the indentation where Reeds ball was plugged/embedded.


Lets be honest that is virtually impossible...

Well its partly what's great about golf, the honour code. You're expected to be honest and not take advantage of the fact people expect you to be honourable.

If someone is a bit "generous" with themselves, then without it being extremely blatant and indisputable, the assumption is innocence

monkeybutter

Wombatman wrote: »

You can only get relief from your own plug mark.

how do you know its not your plug mark


i think people are making a mountain out of a molehill

Innish_Rebel

monkeybutter wrote: »

how do you know its not your plug mark


i think people are making a mountain out of a molehill

Fair enough mountain out of a molehill - but I've just been listening to a really good golf podcast (NoLayingUp) that I really rate where one guy made a great point on Reed:


"
Fool me once - shame on you,
Fool me twice - shame on me,
Fool me half a dozen times - come on PGA tour punish this guy...
"
or something like that, I may have edited a few curse words...

DuckSlice

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Fair enough mountain out of a molehill - but I've just been listening to a really good golf podcast that I really rate where one guy made a great point on Reed:


"
Fool me once - shame on you,
Fool me twice - shame on me,
Fool me half a dozen times - come on PGA tour punish this guy...
"
or something like that, I may have edited a few curse words...

What's the podcast?

Innish_Rebel

etxp wrote: »

What's the podcast?

Sorry meant to quote it - I will edit the post as well:
Nolayingup - they call themselves 5 golf "fanalists" & have gone from a simple podcast to a pretty good business model.

They do some excellent interviews & have a class youTube channel, their tourist sauce of Ireland should just be rebranded by Failte Ireland. I have spent the last 6 months listening back to some of their old interviews but their weekly Monday review of the weekends golf is really good too.

LuckyGent88

etxp wrote: »

What's the podcast?

Nolayingup is the name of it. Excellent content in my opinion. Good mix of views, knowledge and have really good contacts in the game.

As a previous poster said; Xander came out pretty strongly on the topic in his interview but also a few others voiced their displeasure. Lanto griffen was another one.

monkeybutter

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Sorry meant to quote it - I will edit the post as well:
Nolayingup - they call themselves 5 golf "fanalists" & have gone from a simple podcast to a pretty good business model.

They do some excellent interviews & have a class youTube channel, their tourist sauce of Ireland should just be rebranded by Failte Ireland. I have spent the last 6 months listening back to some of their old interviews but their weekly Monday review of the weekends golf is really good too.

Some of their golf trip YouTube videos are decent

Oz Ireland Scotland, the more recent ones not so good, could be due to covid etc restrictions, who knows

On the podcast to be honest they are basically winging it, the odd good guest, McGinley was especially good, but it was all on him

But a lot of chaff on it too, they do previews and reviews of tournaments and they add nothing to it really

FixdePitchmark

monkeybutter wrote: »

how do you know its not your plug mark


i think people are making a mountain out of a molehill

I think Reed has been hard done by. (And probably deserved). Rory had a plug from a ball that bounced. Apparently a road has collapsed and all in California due to rain. I think there is this bizarre narrative that a ball can not embed after a bounce. I've played a good bit of golf - and in very soft conditions , of course a ball can embed from a bounce. In fact I'd be very confident I could replicate it. Anyway, on top of all that, there are so many other ground conditions that would give the impression the ball was embedded , old divot, ground crack , old pitch mark.

The guy doesn't deserve a 2nd chance - but this idea , he forced the ball into the ground , with a camera 4 foot away is nuts. Rory is saying a ball plugged under similar circumstances.

Innish_Rebel

monkeybutter wrote: »

Some of their golf trip YouTube videos are decent

Oz Ireland Scotland, the more recent ones not so good, could be due to covid etc restrictions, who knows

On the podcast to be honest they are basically winging it, the odd good guest, McGinley was especially good, but it was all on him

But a lot of chaff on it too, they do previews and reviews of tournaments and they add nothing to it really

I guess that's what I like about the podcast - no agenda just having a chat about what they've seen/watched - example is they've had Justin Thomas on a few times but they did not hold back on their discussion of his comments picked up on mic recently.


It can be tricky to just drop in and follow some of their banter as they can sometimes use nicknames etc... They are also doing some decent promotion of the LPGA - follow the European tour, now they're sponsoring a few "young hitters" on Korn Ferry & LPGA tours - also normally do a few minutes on the most recent F1 races which is very unusual for American podcast.



On their interviews we will have to agree to disagree, yes the McGinley chat was excellent - Paul came across very well. But if you're into course design they've some great ones. Maybe because it is relevant to the current Reed situation their 2 part interview with Peter Kostis is a good listen on the difficulties of live golf broadcasting/coverage. I did a google of their top 20 interviews and listened back over the last few months, I though there were some great ones mainly because you can get so much more of a feel for a person over an hour or so rather than the usual 5 minutes TV slots...

Miley Byrne

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I think Reed has been hard done by. (And probably deserved). Rory had a plug from a ball that bounced. Apparently a road has collapsed and all in California due to rain. I think there is this bizarre narrative that a ball can not embed after a bounce. I've played a good bit of golf - and in very soft conditions , of course a ball can embed from a bounce. In fact I'd be very confident I could replicate it. Anyway, on top of all that, there are so many other ground conditions that would give the impression the ball was embedded , old divot, ground crack , old pitch mark.

The guy doesn't deserve a 2nd chance - but this idea , he forced the ball into the ground , with a camera 4 foot away is nuts. Rory is saying a ball plugged under similar circumstances.

If the ground is that soft that the ball will become embedded after hopping forward by a foot or two then there is no chance it actually bounces in the first place. I can safely say I have never seen a ball embed after bouncing a couple of feet. I have seen a ball land, then hop up and land in its own pitchmark but never seen one create it's own plugmark on a small bounce like Reed is claiming to have happened. Either he pushed the ball into the ground to create a plug mark or he convinced/intimidated the rules official into believing there was a lip when there actually wasn't.

CalamariFritti

I'm not into the Patrick Reed bashing, but when I saw it my first thought was wtf is he doing? I wouldnt do it that way myself, it wouldn't feel right.

I'd call playing partner over and go 'here look at this, embedded ball right?'

I wouldnt just end up with the ball in my hand and expect everyone to take my word for it. Sure then you could do anything. Why bother calling the ref when you have the ball in your hand already? Makes little sense.

monkeybutter

Miley Byrne wrote: »

If the ground is that soft that the ball will become embedded after hopping forward by a foot or two then there is no chance it actually bounces in the first place. I can safely say I have never seen a ball embed after bouncing a couple of feet. I have seen a ball land, then hop up and land in its own pitchmark but never seen one create it's own plugmark on a small bounce like Reed is claiming to have happened. Either he pushed the ball into the ground to create a plug mark or he convinced/intimidated the rules official into believing there was a lip when there actually wasn't.

So Rory was lying too

Innish_Rebel

monkeybutter wrote: »

So Rory was lying too

Rory has said in his case his only explanation is the ball bounced straight up and back into his own pitchmark - camera angle isn't clear. And he has come back and said categorically the ball wall embedded. For me I'm inclined to give Rory the benefit of the doubt as I cannot recall any incidents where he was called into question - I have a vague recollection of him replacing a dropped ball because his new lie was too good relative to the original a few years back???
EDIT: yes I remember now - PGA championship ball was in rough near green - on course announcer accidentally stepped on Rory's ball so Rory got to replace - rules official told him where to replace, after placing his comment was along the lines of no the lie couldn't have been that good and pushed it deeper into the rough to eventually take a bogey.



Reed unfortunately for me has burned up all his benefit of the doubt cards - and had done so a long time before the sand incident last year.



But that's just me - I love the game of golf and I love the fact that these guys out there playing for millions of $$$ are prepared to call a penalty on themselves - just as the vast majority of amateur golfers out on the course do week in week out

Miley Byrne

monkeybutter wrote: »

So Rory was lying too

We have no evidence that confirms either way. Either his ball popped up and settles in its original pitchmark or he cheated. As Innish_Rebel says, I would give Rory the benefit of doubt as he has in the past punished himself when he didn't have to. The footage isn't damning because the viewer cannot see how far the ball bounces.

Reed's situation on the other hand is clearer. His ball definitely didn't come to rest in its original pitchmark and he has a multitude of shady goings on where rules are concerned.

gypsy79

Who are the players that we think are the most willing to cheat

Two spring to mind immediately

Bryson
Reed

Will Bryson and Reed be paired together for Ryder Cup? Cant see anyone willing play with Reed

GreeBo

gypsy79 wrote: »

Who are the players that we think are the most willing to cheat

Is this really a direction we want to go in?

gypsy79

GreeBo wrote: »

Is this really a direction we want to go in?

Well we have loads of evidence of Bryson and Reed either cheating or trying to cheat

But maybe not. Phrasing might be too open to wild speculation

Roger_007

gypsy79 wrote: »

Who are the players that we think are the most willing to cheat

Two spring to mind immediately

Bryson
Reed

Will Bryson and Reed be paired together for Ryder Cup? Cant see anyone willing play with Reed

I wouldn’t think there is too much downright cheating but I think that some of favourable rulings that they get from officials are very generous.
The incident that took place at the 10th hole at Torry Pines is the one that everyone is talking about but there was another one at the 12th. Rich Beem was the on-course commentator and he seemed to call into question relief that Reed got from a sprinkler head. He said that Reed took an abnormal stance to ensure his foot was touching the sprinkler head and the official gave him a free drop. I don’t think the incident wasn’t seen clearly on camera.
I don’t blame Reed particularly for this kind of thing. All the players do it now and again. They may be getting away with it by the letter of the law but I do not think it’s in the spirit of the game.
I think there is a loophole in the rules in relation to free drops. You should not be able to dramatically improve your lie by getting a free drop . I have seen balls being dropped on the fairway when a free drop is given for a ball in deep rough just off the fairway. I have seen balls being dropped on the fringe of the green that originally came to rest in the rough near the green.
For a free drop you should be required to drop the ball onto similar ground conditions, within reason, as where the ball came to rest originally. The only exception to this would be a drop from GUR.

waynescales1

Only a rules official can declare a ball embedded, problem solved.

spacecoyote

Reed has some serious form though. Was a great read posted previously somewhere on here about his history going back to his college days, etc...

Worth digging up

I would have thought that Bryson abuses the rules, whereas Reed has been caught cheating

Bill Ponderosa

spacecoyote wrote: »

Reed has some serious form though. Was a great read posted previously somewhere on here about his history going back to his college days, etc...

Worth digging up

I would have thought that Bryson abuses the rules, whereas Reed has been caught cheating

Only 1 violation of the rules in 8 years on tour, did you not read the burner account

LuckyGent88

So this Reed and Mcilroy embedded ball story ain’t going away anytime soon.

Reed said everything he did was correct once again today in his press conference in Saudi Arabia. He would do the same process over again. He wasn’t fully pushed on how he went about the drop and the various other little questions surrounding it though.

Anyway the bigger bombshell has just happened in Rory’s press conference in Phoenix. Turns out a Marshall had walked on his ball and he got an email on Monday from the tour telling him this. This opens up a massive hole.

So Reed and his wife on the burner twitter account threw Rory under the bus and then even the PGA tour did by stating they did everything correct and then released the video of Rory’s ball.

Quotes here; “Rory McIlroy said the Tour told him Monday a volunteer had stepped on his ball on 18 on Saturday when he took embedded ball relief.

He says the email made him feel better; he'd been questioning what he'd seen.

"Did I see something that wasn't there? I started to doubt myself."

And also was asked about the Reed tweet; Rory isn't sure that Patrick Reed dragged him into the situation on Saturday.

"I don't think it was Patrick. Could have been someone from the Reed family, but I don't think it was Patrick."

That was a very tasty response from Rory. Love it

Although didn’t exactly like his thoughts on the RandA usga decision yesterday. Completely dismissed it as a load of rubbish. Yes he is an employee of a manufacturer of course. But then went on to say “ If they want to try to make the game more difficult for (pro golfers) or try to incorporate more skill into the game, I would be all for that because I think it only benefits the better player, which I feel like I am.”

spacecoyote

Pretty sure this is the article from a couple of years ago

https://tobaccoroadblues.com/2015/01/30/the-villain-patrick-reed/

UnknownSpecies

The plot thickens

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/55927724#:~:text=Rory%20McIlroy%20says%20his%20embedded,after%20he%20hit%20a%20shot.