Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

gmisk

Last week tonight was excellent this week
7.25 on focussed on Kenosha
https://youtu.be/rBu0BRTx2x8

Melanchthon

FrostyJack wrote: »

Watched that clip of 1st incident about 20 times, still undecided. At first I thought Kyle was a full car length away and just out of camera when he shot but last few views I could see the guy in red head gear was either running up behind him or sneaking up. Can't tell if Kyle was being chased or was surprised by him and turned and shot. Best case he panicked and shot when he saw he coming up. Doesn't look like he just shot him randomly. Not clever trying to sneak up on or chase a guy with a rifle. The last 2 shootings were justified self defense, he didn't have much of a choice. Think the old saying better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 was used at that point. His legal team are trying to spin he was putting out fires when they took exception to it and attacked, though it is a possibility, it was definitely stupid of him to be even there.

Whats the deal with the shots, like first shot sounds different to the next three to me.

AbusesToilets

Melanchthon wrote: »

Whats the deal with the shots, like first shot sounds different to the next three to me.

One of the rioters shot a pistol in the air.

Melanchthon

AbusesToilets wrote: »

One of the rioters shot a pistol in the air.

Ah alright, had watched the video before but with only really bad headphones on so hadnt noticed it

AbusesToilets

Melanchthon wrote: »

Ah alright, had watched the video before but with only really bad headphones on so hadnt noticed it

There are some videos on YouTube that break videos down second-by-second

Brian?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

That's quite the narrative you're constructing, shows impressive creativity. Thankfully we have video to show the reality.

Tell me, what was the reason for the crowd to fire off a gun in the air; for them initially to chase Rittenhouse and attack him?

You’d have to ask the crowd.

Brian?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

One of the rioters shot a pistol in the air.

Was the Murderer defending the air?

brentanrodgers

AbusesToilets wrote: »

One of the rioters shot a pistol in the air.

Wait, a rioter fired a pistol in the air before the first shooting? That changes my perception of the incident a lot - I can understand now that he was in fear for his life.

Brian?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

There are some videos on YouTube that break videos down second-by-second

You know you should always watch videos in real time. Because that’s how events actually happen.


Otherwise you’re in danger of constructing a narrative to reinforce your own preconceptions and bias.

AbusesToilets

brentanrodgers wrote: »

Wait, a rioter fired a pistol in the air before the first shooting? That changes my perception of the incident a lot - I can understand now that he was in fear for his life.

Yes, he fired as Rittenhouse was fleeing from his attacker

Brian?

brentanrodgers wrote: »

Wait, a rioter fired a pistol in the air before the first shooting? That changes my perception of the incident a lot - I can understand now that he was in fear for his life.

There’s a massive difference between being in fear and actually being in danger. I’m afraid of heights, that doesn’t mean walking across a bridge can kill me.

AbusesToilets

Brian? wrote: »

You know you should always watch videos in real time. Because that’s how events actually happen.


Otherwise you’re in danger of constructing a narrative to reinforce your own preconceptions and bias.

Good thing I have, and everyone else here can too, rather than rely on false narratives being spun by others

brentanrodgers

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Yes, he fired as Rittenhouse was fleeing from his attacker

That changes my opinion so - I think he was justified in defending himself on all counts. He still shouldn't have been there but I know IF I was put in that situation running from a mob and heard gun shots ring out behind me it's probable I would have returned fire.

Truthvader

Two issues

First is the madness where multiple people are wandering the streets with guns. Already there is a problem but only in America is this situation not seen as absolutely insane

On Biden, I am not a Trump supporter as some seem to think but Biden bottled this. He should have addressed the atifa nonsense in his acceptance speech and made an effort to absolutely condemn and distance the democrats from it. Big mistake in my view. He could have used the occasion to point out to them that they were helping Trump and make an effort to sieze the initiative - and to sieze control. The limp wristed hand wringing makes him look weak and complicit. Trump just has to sit back and point at antifa as democrat supporters and all the secret KKK and good ol' boys will sweep him to power again

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

Otherwise you’re in danger of constructing a narrative to reinforce your own preconceptions and bias.

This is rich..

rossie1977

Brian? wrote: »

Were the party of the KKK. Until LBJ lost the south by signing the civil rights act.

It might serve you study history in a book and not from right wing twitter accounts.

Dems were never party of KKK. Support for the group was evenly split between both parties. In the south KKK back in 1920s were predominantly Democrats but in the Midwest predominantly Republican.

None of that matters anyway as the southern Democrats from back then bear no resemblance to Democrat party of today just like Republicans of Lincoln's day have nothing in common with today's Republicans.

Potatoeman

Retr0gamer wrote: »

News flash: Trump is the President, not Biden. The loot and rioting is all Trumps fault. He has done nothing to calm the situation and has in fact managed to make things worse.

All Biden can do is condemn the looting and violence which he has done consistently. Trump on the other hand is promoting vigilantism.

The rioting is happening in Democrat cities. The republican city’s asked for federal help so they where shut down early once they escalated. The president needs to be asked to intervene by city and state local officials. The Democratic leaders are refusing to ask for intervention and telling police to stand down so the situation is escalating then you have extremists like Antifa using the riots to create trouble.

This is handing the election to Trump. Most people want law and order not chaos. It’s the locals that will pay for these riots through tax and insurance increases. Over thirty people are dead, do their lives not matter too?

ancapailldorcha

Posts by troll and responses deleted. Please post in a constructive manner.

FrostyJack

Potatoeman wrote: »

The rioting is happening in Democrat cities. The republican city’s asked for federal help so they where shut down early once they escalated. The president needs to be asked to intervene by city and state local officials. The Democratic leaders are refusing to ask for intervention and telling police to stand down so the situation is escalating then you have extremists like Antifa using the riots to create trouble.

This is handing the election to Trump. Most people want law and order not chaos. It’s the locals that will pay for these riots through tax and insurance increases. Over thirty people are dead, do their lives not matter too?

What exactly did they do in these Republican cities? Places like Portland have been simmering since before Trump was elected, there is a massive rural/urban divide. Running battles have been on going. Look what happened when Federal troops arrived or when the police used force it escalated the situation. When the troops pulled back the protests died down. It isn't hard to understand but if the likes of Tucker Carlson and Trump can convince people otherwise he has a chance of election but it isn't based in reality. Beat people down and they will push back harder, this is was what Trump wants, to turn America into a quagmire to keep himself out of jail.

droidus

Potatoeman wrote: »

This is handing the election to Trump. Most people want law and order not chaos. It’s the locals that will pay for these riots through tax and insurance increases. Over thirty people are dead, do their lives not matter too?

Well how come Biden's polling has gone from +6 to +9 in Wisconsin in the latest poll then?

StringerBell

droidus wrote: »

Well how come Biden's polling has gone from +6 to +9 in Wisconsin in the latest poll then?

Which poll and when was that done?

Interested for myself, not calling you out or anything. That would be an encouraging sign if correct.

Polls are a snapshot in time, so as I said I wouldn't be overly hyped one way or the other but the GOP, well Trump, is throwing his best fearmongering and stoking the tensions "bigly" right now so a quick look at the effect that's having would be informative.

droidus

Morning consult, completed 3 days ago. 50% leap in Biden's polling after Kenosha.

https://twitter.com/AstorAaron/status/1300778622274469889

Potatoeman

FrostyJack wrote: »

What exactly did they do in these Republican cities? Places like Portland have been simmering since before Trump was elected, there is a massive rural/urban divide. Running battles have been on going. Look what happened when Federal troops arrived or when the police used force it escalated the situation. When the troops pulled back the protests died down. It isn't hard to understand but if the likes of Tucker Carlson and Trump can convince people otherwise he has a chance of election but it isn't based in reality. Beat people down and they will push back harder, this is was what Trump wants, to turn America into a quagmire to keep himself out of jail.

The republican states are charging people caught breaking the law and getting them off the streets. The protesters caught breaking the law in Democrat states are being released and not charged by the DA and judges. So it’s a revolving door system with little accountability. This is why the protests escalated in the democrat areas.

Federal troops were told they weren’t needed by local officials so they pulled out of Portland. This means Trump can turn around and say that he offered help but was told to pullout so anything that happens after this is not his responsibility.

Protests have to be peaceful to be effective, once they descend into violence any moral high ground is lost.

Potatoeman

droidus wrote: »

Well how come Biden's polling has gone from +6 to +9 in Wisconsin in the latest poll then?

According to polls Hilary was going to have a landslide win.

droidus

Potatoeman wrote: »

According to polls Hilary was going to have a landslide win.

According to polls Hillary had a 2/3 chance in winning.

everlast75

Potatoeman wrote: »

According to polls Hilary was going to have a landslide win.

*AGAIN* - this is not correct

Quin_Dub

Potatoeman wrote: »

According to polls Hilary was going to have a landslide win.

No.. Not at all..

At this same point in the Election , Clinton had a 3 point lead , Biden's lead is 8. And most crtically , he is over the 50% mark , Clinton never got above about 44%/45% which left enough votes on the table for Trump to win.

In 2016 20% of voters had not made up their minds yet , today it's only 6%

rossie1977

Potatoeman wrote: »

The rioting is happening in Democrat cities. The republican city’s asked for federal help so they where shut down early once they escalated. The president needs to be asked to intervene by city and state local officials. The Democratic leaders are refusing to ask for intervention and telling police to stand down so the situation is escalating then you have extremists like Antifa using the riots to create trouble.

This is handing the election to Trump. Most people want law and order not chaos. It’s the locals that will pay for these riots through tax and insurance increases. Over thirty people are dead, do their lives not matter too?

Trump is president, so the entire blame goes on him. He has continually incited violence and made the situation worse. The protesting has shown Trump is incapable of leading so why would this hand him the election.. if Biden was president I am sure you would be blaming Republican leaders!

A large % of the violence in Portland is due to far right groups like Proud Boys anyway.

Fort Worth a Republican run city dropped all charges of protestors so why do you think its really any different https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/09/872827789/fort-worth-police-drop-rioting-charges-against-protesters-topic-of-a-broad-debat?t=1599048873541

StringerBell

Potatoeman wrote: »

According to polls Hilary was going to have a landslide win.

If you can't be bothered to know what your talking about before posting why would you bother posting?

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Anyways, the polling is interesting to me because Wisconsin as a state is about 87% white I believe so that's who trump is trying to win over with his fear mongering. If it isn't having the desired effect that can only be a good thing. Wonder what else he will do of course between now and then. It's a state he needs really and not one he did particularly well in last time, he won the state with less votes than Romney had got like. He didn't inspire massive turnout for himself there previously.

A good morning.

droidus

This has been discussed over on the election thread, but despite the media narrative and the endless flood of insane propoganda from the consortium of hate groups calling itself the republican party and their media surrogates, Biden is generally seen as a safe, unthreatening and reasonably popular candidate. His lead is one of the most historically stable of any candidate and he's doing well in nearly all swing states. Most importantly, the number of undecideds is tiny and there's no third party candidate to siphon votes away. 'This cake is baked' as the odious James Carville has said.

I am absolutely no fan of Biden, I think he is a disastrous candidate for a wide range of reasons, but it looks, as of now, that he is likely to win decisively enough to overcome voter suppression, mail in ballot shenanigans and the GOP's electoral college advantages (of course this may change between now and November).