Opinion on billionaires.

IAMAMORON

Akrasia wrote: »

I also studied economics at 3rd level and supernormal profits are a market failure

Billionaires very often earn and grow/maintain their fortune by extracting economic rent from the trading and ownership of resources rather than from generating any new value from their own labour or enterprise and as people get richer and dominate their sector, they gain monopolies and can distort the markets they are trading in so they can profit further even by reducing the productivity of the sector overall

Oh and by the way, child labour absolutely still exists, it has been outsourced to countries with lower regulations on labour or to suppliers who operate on the fringes between the official and black economy

Cmere, enough with the diatribe. I will believe you if you say you studied. I did too and I never wanna hear it again, the most boring shight I ever learnt, graphs and all. Garbage.

By the time I left college they were still discussing Maynard Keynes and probably still are.

If you don't like child labour go and do something about it. All our ancestors did it and it probably didn't do them any harm either. Most children waste their youth on Ipads these days, an afternoon washing linen mightn't do them any harm.

I will start ranting about my paper round next and I would prefer to not go there if I am honest with you.

flazio

IAMAMORON wrote: »

.

If you don't like child labour go and do something about it. All our ancestors did it and it probably didn't do them any harm either. Most children waste their youth on Ipads these days, an afternoon washing linen mightn't do them any harm.

I'd argue that the best thing to do is put better things on that ipad than tiktok or whatever meme generator is trendy.
It's an excellent education resource if used properly. (sadly it mostly isn't)

seamus

Akrasia wrote: »

Do they work a thousand times harder than a self made millionaire?

A million times harder than a working class father/mother who struggles to maintain a thousand euros in their savings account?

This.

Nobody earns a billion euro. There aren't enough seconds in the day for a single individual to put in enough effort to justify a return of a billion euro. Not even over an entire lifetime.

Cyrus

seamus wrote: »

This.

Nobody earns a billion euro. There aren't enough seconds in the day for a single individual to put in enough effort to justify a return of a billion euro. Not even over an entire lifetime.

They have and they do, just because it doesn’t conform with your definition of earn doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Amazon has changed the face of e-commerce , bezos did that, so to him goes the spoils

IAMAMORON

flazio wrote: »

I'd argue that the best thing to do is put better things on that ipad than tiktok or whatever meme generator is trendy.
It's an excellent education resource if used properly. (sadly it mostly isn't)

Very progressive. I would argue that they should have child training regimes ( I know I think it sounds sinister too) on their Ipads. Get those nippers off the couch and out on the street playing tip the can where they belong.

Geuze

Brittany Large Bartender wrote: »

Not much to say, other than they should be paying real, proper taxes, and have a moral duty not to abuse tax efficency schemes including inheritance tax evasion using trust funds.

What extra taxes would you like them to pay?

Higher income tax?

Or a wealth tax?

Wanderer78

begbysback wrote: »

How many people does your broke ass employ?

how many people have these wealthy companies made unemployed?

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I wouldn't waste your time blaming things on the wealthy. Just because you have read a few books does not mean you are in a position to take their power away, or their wealth. When the mob comes for their heads they will just jump in their choppers and be in the Caribbean in an hour. Wealthy people are too busy making money to be worried about tribesmen in Namibia hunting tree lizards and barbecuing them with wild honey.

Agreed and I think they need to get modern tech in their also, it is game changing after all.

this is far more complex than just wealthy individuals, the modern plutocratic class is highly complex involving, wealthy individuals, wealthy families, wealthy businesses, including wealthy corporations, wealthy institutions, including wealthy financial institutions........

we have manged to convince ourselves, by creating and allowing this concentration of wealth, that everybody effectively wins, we ve been playing this game for many decades now, and our reality is, this thinking is causing severe instabilities in all human needs, including for the wealthy, in terms of socially, politically, economically and environmentally, im sure other instabilities are also occurring, of which i havent noticed yet. all humans need some elements of stability is these categories, in order to survive on this planet, the wealthy can of course jump in their helicopters, but if this trend continues, they ll eventually have no where safe to go, and their wealth sources could eventually dry up, i.e. theres a possibility, they ll end up on the titanic with us, they might just remain on the upper decks, for a little while longer.

interesting analogy about the tribes people, maybe some americans are currently experiencing something similar to their Namibia counterparts, and are expressing this in anger!

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Cmere, enough with the diatribe. I will believe you if you say you studied. I did too and I never wanna hear it again, the most boring shight I ever learnt, graphs and all. Garbage.

yup, neoclassical is largely nonsense, it has little or no relation to human behavior, its a mathematical mythical world, that simply doesnt exist on this planet, with its equilibriums, its supplies and demands, its rationally expecting humans that are only self interested, yada yada yada.....

By the time I left college they were still discussing Maynard Keynes and probably still are.

If you don't like child labour go and do something about it. All our ancestors did it and it probably didn't do them any harm either. Most children waste their youth on Ipads these days, an afternoon washing linen mightn't do them any harm.

I will start ranting about my paper round next and I would prefer to not go there if I am honest with you.

we have figured out how to create large amounts of wealthy, with relative ease, and relatively quickly to, its probably a good idea we share it a little more, before we do something really really stupid such as completely wrecking the planet environmentally or worse, from acts of war! theres no need for child labour, anywhere on this planet!

i would be interested to hear about your paper, seriously, i would!

Cyrus wrote: »

They have and they do, just because it doesn’t conform with your definition of earn doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Amazon has changed the face of e-commerce , bezos did that, so to him goes the spoils

i suspect its not that hard having to switch on a computer device, to view the value of your assets growing, it certainly isnt for me! have they worked hard, of course they have, as have i, but i suspect not as hard as you may think!

again, amazon makes little or nothing from its delivery service, they are in fact a monopoly in the sector, preventing competitors from existing, and crushing anyone that did previously exist, in both the public and private sectors, out of existance. bezos was greatly helped by both internal helpers(employees), and external elements, he alone has not created his entire wealth.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Very progressive. I would argue that they should have child training regimes ( I know I think it sounds sinister too) on their Ipads. Get those nippers off the couch and out on the street playing tip the can where they belong.

'child training regimes'! you ll have to explain that one??

Geuze wrote: »

What extra taxes would you like them to pay?

Higher income tax?

Or a wealth tax?

maybe, but sharing the spoils of the wealth created, is now becoming critical, before we really do something stupid! sharing the wealth created by the value of the assets created, is probably a good idea, and quickly to! rising asset prices is a wealth stream, a few more tributaries could easily be created, to supply wealth towards more individuals, without having serious negative effects on these businesses, it could in fact be an overall positive experience for all, i suspect it would be.

Cyrus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i suspect its not that hard having to switch on a computer device, to view the value of your assets growing, it certainly isnt for me!

If that’s your take on things it’s not worth responding any further

Wanderer78

Cyrus wrote: »

If that’s your take on things it’s not worth responding any further

i personally dont work all that hard when i switch on my computer device to view the value of my assets, in fact i kinna find it somewhat boring sometimes, i certainly dont feel like im burning too many calories

Cyrus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i personally dont work all that hard when i switch on my computer device to view the value of my assets, in fact i kinna find it somewhat boring sometimes, i certainly dont feel like im burning too many calories

Good for you, I’m sure you are just growing them to the point where you can give them all away to those more needing of them that you

IAMAMORON

I never get the concept of " sharing" wealth. Such bullshít.

Put it this way, entrepreneurs are only in it for the money, hence the exploitation of labour. Please get over it.

Wanderer78

Cyrus wrote: »

Good for you, I’m sure you are just growing them to the point where you can give them all away to those more needing of them that you

Cyrus wrote: »

Good for you, I’m sure you are just growing them to the point where you can give them all away to those more needing of them that you

im not asking people such as bezos or musk to give away their wealth, im advocating that they share more of the overall wealth thats created from their enterprises with their employees and with the rest of society, these are wealth streams, and it would be relatively easily to do so, without having any serious effect on these individuals overall wealth. the value of assets, including my own, could easily go towards zero, and relatively quickly, i have worked hard to gain access to these assets, but im not working hard with regards their overall rate of growth in value, this in similar for the likes of the wealthy. many humans struggle to gain access to these assets, and the wealth created from them, and for some, it will simply never happen, therefore its important that everything is done to try resolve it, even some respected financiers agree with this, including irish hedge fund manager eric lonergan.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I never get the concept of " sharing" wealth. Such bullshít.

Put it this way, entrepreneurs are only in it for the money, hence the exploitation of labour. Please get over it.

people that are struggling in all of this are doing just that, by turning to anger, and anger lead activities such as rioting etc, is this what we want?

BBDBB

I read something on the internet (so it must be true!) recently that made me stop and start to pay more heed to the billionaires in the world and what they do with their money

For a bit of perspective

A million seconds takes about 11 days to pass

A billion seconds takes over 31 years to pass

11 days versus 31 years!

Most of us have occasionally dreamed about winning the lottery and how much we'd need to change our lives, how many million we'd need and how we'd start to spread around a bit amongst family and friends and how we'd support a few charitable works. Even then you'd be living off the interest for the rest of your life. But billionaires is just off the scale of comprehension

IAMAMORON

Wanderer78 wrote: »

people that are struggling in all of this are doing just that, by turning to anger, and anger lead activities such as rioting etc, is this what we want?

It has been the part time occupation of the disenfranchised for centuries, there really is nothing to see here.

Most rioters are in it for the riot rather than the protest which they are supposed to be there for. People do be into throwing stuff around and burning a few bins. In France protest is like a cultural pastime, it has become perennial rather than a catalyst for radical change. In fact if it is radical change you are after you should be asking the billionaires, they are the ones ahead of the game. Most French businesses factor in industrial disputes as a cost in their annual budgets, it just gets dumped and indexed linked into inflation, they expect it to happen.

"Déficit éventuel des conflits industriels" - You see French billionaires are proactive about getting it done, they need to be.

Wanderer78

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It has been the part time occupation of the disenfranchised for centuries, there really is nothing to see here.

Most rioters are in it for the riot rather than the protest which they are supposed to be there for. People do be into throwing stuff around and burning a few bins. In France protest is like a cultural pastime, it has become perennial rather than a catalyst for radical change. In fact if it is radical change you are after you should be asking the billionaires, they are the ones ahead of the game. Most French businesses factor in industrial disputes as a cost in their annual budgets, it just gets dumped and indexed linked into inflation, they expect it to happen.

"Déficit éventuel des conflits industriels" - You see French billionaires are proactive about getting it done, they need to be.

these could be famous last words, something similar happened in the 30's/40's, and we all know what happened next! be careful what you wish for! we again, have pushed wealth inequalities to dangerous limits, do we really wanna repeat history!

speaking of inflation, where is it???? has all these bailouts worked, has activities such as qe worked???

some billionaires dont seem to be ahead of things such as wealth inequality at all, we of course need them innovating, but less so in financial activities such as share buy backs etc, as they truly only benefit the few, and further endanger the many.

then theres radical election and voting outcomes such as trump, brexit and the rise of the right, and even radical election outcomes such as our own recent ge's, are these radical outcomes truly beneficially to all, including the wealthy???

4068ac1elhodqr

Geuze wrote: »

What extra taxes would you like them to pay?
Higher income tax? Or a wealth tax?

Well you'd have to start at closing loopholes, schemes, immoral fiscal tools and 'creative' accounting*, before even a tiny 0.5% wealth tax type increase. It would also have to be a unified effort across the EU and/or OECD(x37 that own 80% of global wealth).

*Remember the Panama Papers fiasco?

e.g. (Saint) Bono used a company (minority investor) in the Channel Islands, which then used low-tax Malta, to then invest in a shopping centre in Eastern Europe, using a Holding Company. Then broke Lithuanian laws using excessive paper losses (revaluation) to avoid paying any tax at all. on the centres profits.

Meanwhile celebs in the uk are still laughing about their *K2 tax 'whoopsie', Jimmy Carr has lols about this regularly, having been caught out twice.

The (aggressive) tax avoidance scheme was considered somewhat legal, but scrapped soon after after public exposure and abuse by the wealthy, particularly the celeb rolemodels of success.

Worth repeating:
- The world’s 2,153 billionaires have more wealth than the 4,600,000,000 people who make up 60% of the planet’s population.

- Getting the richest 1% to pay just 0.5 percent extra tax on their wealth over the next 10 years would equal the investment needed to create 117 million jobs in sectors such as elderly and childcare, education and health.

IAMAMORON

Wanderer78 wrote: »

these could be famous last words, something similar happened in the 30's/40's, and we all know what happened next! be careful what you wish for! we again, have pushed wealth inequalities to dangerous limits, do we really wanna repeat history!

You may have a degree in economics but you are not Nostradamus either.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

speaking of inflation, where is it???? has all these bailouts worked, has activities such as qe worked???

Inflation is around here ((B - A)/A)*100, you can make graphs and everything, knock yourself out.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

some billionaires dont seem to be ahead of things such as wealth inequality at all, we of course need them innovating, but less so in financial activities such as share buy backs etc, as they truly only benefit the few, and further endanger the many.

Steady on there pal. Get real on this, billionaires don't have a conscience about making money unless it means making more. Their PR teams will handle any bad press, but they are over internet ramblings from nobodies long ago, no fox given.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

then theres radical election and voting outcomes such as trump, brexit and the rise of the right, and even radical election outcomes such as our own recent ge's, are these radical outcomes truly beneficially to all, including the wealthy???

Donald Trump is a leg. The middle east love him. The hawks hate him because arms sales are down. Anyone who spends 5 years complaining about Donald Trump, not only deserves to, but is also a victim of an American liberal agenda who cannot handle newbies, he shook them up and they don't like it, locker room talk is ignored by billionaires as well. He is only controversial so his PR team can analyse the meta data, get ready for 4 more years.

Wanderer78

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You may have a degree in economics but you are not Nostradamus either.

Inflation is around here ((B - A)/A)*100, you can make graphs and everything, knock yourself out.

Steady on there pal. Get real on this, billionaires don't have a conscience about making money unless it means making more. Their PR teams will handle any bad press, but they are over internet ramblings from nobodies long ago, no fox given.

Donald Trump is a leg. The middle east love him. The hawks hate him because arms sales are down. Anyone who spends 5 years complaining about Donald Trump, not only deserves to, but is also a victim of an American liberal agenda who cannot handle newbies, he shook them up and they don't like it, locker room talk is ignored by billionaires as well. He is only controversial so his PR team can analyse the meta data, get ready for 4 more years.

wouldnt touch educational economics with a barge pole, its all largely neoclassical, which again, has little or no meaning in the real world, theres no such thing as equilibrium, particularly at the macro level, and rationally expecting humans etc etc

is inflation really that simple mathematically, and where is this inflation?

according to stiglitz, some wealthy Brazilians are deeply concerned about growing wealth inequalities in their own country, and are actively getting involved in reducing it, im also aware of a group of american millionaires that are also doing something similar in their country, so id have to somewhat disagree there. have you spoken directly to all of these wealthy individuals, to confirm your opinion?

oh, we ve gone down this road!:rolleyes: id say biden will just about get in, just about, but wont be able to change much, as american problems are a lot more complex than just changing the chap at the top, or perceived to be at the top!

Cienciano

Ireland isn't too bad. America is ****ed. I mean, billionaires and big companies are literally the people making the laws, making the tax loopholes. Donate x to a particular party or politician and get 10x in return through tax breaks. Lobbying companies exist to do it for them, it's that easy. Finance a "think tank" to help change public opinion. When money is no object, this is easy and powerful people are more than willing to help.

And the people are conditioned for it. Speak out about helping the little guy and you're called communist but ignore the trillion dollar bailouts. They're fine. The market will work itself (except when a big company needs a bailout). Capitalism should mean a company that fails, fails.

Wanderer78

Cienciano wrote: »

Ireland isn't too bad. America is ****ed. I mean, billionaires and big companies are literally the people making the laws, making the tax loopholes. Donate x to a particular party or politician and get 10x in return through tax breaks. Lobbying companies exist to do it for them, it's that easy. Finance a "think tank" to help change public opinion. When money is no object, this is easy and powerful people are more than willing to help.

And the people are conditioned for it. Speak out about helping the little guy and you're called communist but ignore the trillion dollar bailouts. They're fine. The market will work itself (except when a big company needs a bailout). Capitalism should mean a company that fails, fails.

but what should be done if these companies are 'systemically important'!!

Cienciano

Let them fail. What will happen if they do? Someone else will take their place if there's a demand for them. The way it is at the moment, they know they're "too big to fail" so where's the incentive to act properly?

Wanderer78

Cienciano wrote: »

Let them fail. What will happen if they do? Someone else will take their place if there's a demand for them. The way it is at the moment, they know they're "too big to fail" so where's the incentive to act properly?

but the real world economy isnt that simple, and simply cannot be simplified, it is possible, by not bailing out these systemically important businesses, could lead to catastrophic outcomes, for example, theres a very high chance if the banks were not bailed out, we could potentially still be experiencing a global depression, thankfully that was prevented, or maybe delayed, who knows. but we decided not to attach strict conditions with these bailouts, this imho, was a lethal move, thankfully, some bailouts occurring now, have some attachments with them, that will probably benefit all.

IAMAMORON

Wanderer78 wrote: »

according to stiglitz, some wealthy Brazilians are deeply concerned about growing wealth inequalities in their own country, and are actively getting involved in reducing it, im also aware of a group of american millionaires that are also doing something similar in their country, so id have to somewhat disagree there. have you spoken directly to all of these wealthy individuals, to confirm your opinion?

Forgive me for being rude ( or blaze ) but i reckon Brazilians are more concerned about the carnival being cancelled than a few billionaires. I mean ever since I watched Citadel de Deus my jaw has never stopped dropping. It kind of puts things in perspective when you see Irish commies bitching about the standard of living, ffs we have it very handy ( apart from the weather ).

I loved it when the Brazilian president told the EU to grow their own forest, sublime comeback.

seamus

Cienciano wrote: »

Let them fail. What will happen if they do?

The next biggest company will consume them and become the biggest company. Repeat ad nauseum until there's nobody left but the biggest.

Capitalism produces monopolies by default. When the goal is the acquisition of wealth, it is inevitable that this wealth becomes concentrated in the individuals who are most efficient at acquiring that wealth.

"Too big to fail" companies should never exist, not because they present a risk to an economy, but because they're a big red flag that your country is at risk of oligarchy.

Wanderer78

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Forgive me for being rude ( or blaze ) but i reckon Brazilians are more concerned about the carnival being cancelled than a few billionaires. I mean ever since I watched Citadel de Deus my jaw has never stopped dropping. It kind of puts things in perspective when you see Irish commies bitching about the standard of living, ffs we have it very handy ( apart from the weather ).

I loved it when the Brazilian president told the EU to grow their own forest, sublime comeback.

jesus, we really have gone down this road!:rolleyes:

yea, amazing, err emm, 'come back'! fcuking hell!

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

The tax system should prevent billionaires from existing.)

What a ridiculous and idiotic suggestion. If people make billions they deserve it and should not have it stolen from then by idiotic tax systems suggested by some. Communist Russia would be a pleasure compared to some of the suggestion I see people here make.

How about you think about the combined tax paid by everyone employed by a billionaire who would not be paying it was it not for them starting the company, the hundreds of thousands of people who live good lives and spend money in their communities all because the company they work for was founded and made a success by the founder. Billionaires pay millions in income tax and many more millions in other taxes such as vat or the equivalent etc. Wanting to take their money is just pure rotten begrudgery.

Cyrus

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It kind of puts things in perspective when you see Irish commies bitching about the standard of living, ffs we have it very handy ( apart from the weather ).

.

Absolutely

Wanderer78

Javon Young Harvester wrote: »

What a ridiculous and idiotic suggestion. If people make billions they deserve it and should not have it stolen from then by idiotic tax systems suggested by some. Communist Russia would be a pleasure compared to some of the suggestion I see people here make.

How about you think about the combined tax paid by everyone employed by a billionaire who would not be paying it was it not for them starting the company, the hundreds of thousands of people who live good lives and spend money in their communities all because the company they work for was founded and made a success by the founder. Billionaires pay millions in income tax and many more millions in other taxes such as vat or the equivalent etc. Wanting to take their money is just pure rotten begrudgery.

its interesting that somebody such as warren would say that his secretary pays more tax than him, is kinna stupid!

do they really?

im neither communist nor Russian! i certainly dont want the ideologies of either in our societies!

ChikiChiki

There's no excuse for people not to do well for themselves here. A wealth of opportunities and schemes for personal growth all within accessible reach. I think anyone who is born here is by default in the lucky 1%.

Perspective is an invaluable thing. Imagine being born in South Sudan or somewhere.

Ush1

It's great when people who haven't a clue tell wealthy people their should be some cap on the money they can make.

Bezos the son of a 17 year old single mother, who was then adopted by a first generation Cuban immigrant.

Wanderer78

ChikiChiki wrote: »

There's no excuse for people not to do well for themselves here. A wealth of opportunities and schemes for personal growth all within accessible reach. I think anyone who is born here is by default in the lucky 1%.

Perspective is an invaluable thing. Imagine being born in South Sudan or somewhere.

unfortunately, this problem also exists here, we dont all have the same opportunities in life, hence our current social problems in relation to housing etc

Wanderer78

Ush1 wrote: »

It's great when people who haven't a clue tell wealthy people their should be some cap on the money they can make.

Bezos the son of a 17 year old single mother, who was then adopted by a first generation Cuban immigrant.

i dont

IAMAMORON

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately, this problem also exists here, we dont all have the same opportunities in life, hence our current social problems in relation to housing etc

Ah here come out of that.

This country is brimming with opportunity. You get educated for free. Free medical care. I have said enough.

Go and talk to the proletariat in downtown Lagos or Kinshasa if you want to hear about "opportunities".

Get real please.

ChikiChiki

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately, this problem also exists here, we dont all have the same opportunities in life, hence our current social problems in relation to housing etc

In many of these cases, its poor life choices or upbringing however if any person is driven enough the support structures are there to hoist out of the problem via back to education schemes etc.

The turnaround can be surprisingly quick. I think the problem is too many people use the fall back options as an excuse.

Wanderer78

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Ah here come out of that.

This country is brimming with opportunity. You get educated for free. Free medical care. I have said enough.

Go and talk to the proletariat in downtown Lagos or Kinshasa if you want to hear about "opportunities".

Get real please.

no we dont, a friend of mine just spent 50k getting one of his kids through 3rd level, and thats just 3rd level, god knows how much he spent through previous levels, then of course theres all the taxes he, his wife and kids have paid!

all citizens pay some form of taxation, including the unemployed!

yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country

Ash.J.Williams

mick087 wrote: »

It be good if they was to share this fortune with the people who make them there fortune there staff.

a ha ha ha hah ha ha ha
staff are nothing

Wanderer78

ChikiChiki wrote: »

In many of these cases, its poor life choices or upbringing however if any person is driven enough the support structures are there to hoist out of the problem via back to education schemes etc.

The turnaround can be surprisingly quick. I think the problem is too many people use the fall back options as an excuse.

again, when system failure occurs, one of the most common defaults is 'personal responsibility', we dont live on the planet of equal opportunities, we also dont live in a country of equal opportunities ,we may never do so

Cyrus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no we dont, a friend of mine just spent 50k getting one of his kids through 3rd level, and thats just 3rd level, god knows how much he spent through previous levels, then of course theres all the taxes he, his wife and kids have paid!

all citizens pay some form of taxation, including the unemployed!

yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country

What was the make up of the 50k?

Presume no entitlement to a grant and his or her kids went away to college ?

Wanderer78

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

a ha ha ha hah ha ha ha
staff are nothing

staff are a critical component of the wealth created, without them, little or no wealth is created

Cyrus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

staff are a critical component of the wealth created, without them, little or no wealth is created

They are easily replaceable as a cohort in the main

Cienciano

Wanderer78 wrote: »

but the real world economy isnt that simple, and simply cannot be simplified, it is possible, by not bailing out these systemically important businesses, could lead to catastrophic outcomes, for example, theres a very high chance if the banks were not bailed out, we could potentially still be experiencing a global depression, thankfully that was prevented, or maybe delayed, who knows. but we decided not to attach strict conditions with these bailouts, this imho, was a lethal move, thankfully, some bailouts occurring now, have some attachments with them, that will probably benefit all.

Don't call it capitalism then. Don't call them private companies. Because when it comes to helping normal people with something like healthcare, half the country think it's socialism/communism.

This is america I'm talking about, we are a lot better here. We weren't brainwashed for the last 100 years to thinking the government doing anything makes us USSR, americans were. Partly through big business/think tanks too, god forbid they lose a dollar somewhere when they can pay someone so little they have to rely on food stamps.

Wanderer78

Cyrus wrote: »

What was the make up of the 50k?

Presume no entitlement to a grant and his or her kids went away to college ?

yup, mainly living costs, baring in mind, the chap was also working throughout college, most parents need to subsidies their kids to some degree, while in our educational system, both directly and indirectly

IAMAMORON

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no we dont, a friend of mine just spent 50k getting one of his kids through 3rd level, and thats just 3rd level, god knows how much he spent through previous levels, then of course theres all the taxes he, his wife and kids have paid!

all citizens pay some form of taxation, including the unemployed!

yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country

Come on, please stop with the hard luck fairytales.

Any garbage about crack babies and I walk, all things considered.

Greyfox

Ush1 wrote: »

It's great when people who haven't a clue tell wealthy people their should be some cap on the money they can make.

Sounds like you havent actually been reading the posts on here. The fact is most billionaires do more bad for humanity than good. Yes they employ a lot of taxpayers but they also put other companies with taxpayers out of business

Cyrus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yup, mainly living costs, baring in mind, the chap was also working throughout college, most parents need to subsidies their kids to some degree, while in our educational system, both directly and indirectly

Yes but he could obviously afford to, if you can’t you can get a grant and kids can goto a local 3rd level.

Wanderer78

Cyrus wrote: »

They are easily replaceable as a cohort in the main

is this easibility of turnover truly working, is it by any chance leading to critical instabilities, as previously mentioned?

Cienciano wrote: »

Don't call it capitalism then. Don't call them private companies. Because when it comes to helping normal people with something like healthcare, half the country think it's socialism/communism.

This is america I'm talking about, we are a lot better here. We weren't brainwashed for the last 100 years to thinking the government doing anything makes us USSR, americans were. Partly through big business/think tanks too, god forbid they lose a dollar somewhere when they can pay someone so little they have to rely on food stamps.

disturbingly, many humans have come to believe, our current form of capitalism, encompasses all forms of capitalism, it doesnt. our current form, free market libertarianism is actually only truly a few decades old, while capitalism itself is actually a few centuries old, go figure!

IAMAMORON

Greyfox wrote: »

Sounds like you havent actually been reading the posts on here. The fact is most billionaires do more bad for humanity than good. Yes they employ a lot of taxpayers but they also put other companies with taxpayers out of business

Elaborate on these "facts" please.

Greyfox wrote: »

they also put other companies with taxpayers out of business[/B]

Congratulations and welcome to Chinatown , home of the real world.

Strumms

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Ah here come out of that.

This country is brimming with opportunity. You get educated for free. Free medical care. I have said enough.

Go and talk to the proletariat in downtown Lagos or Kinshasa if you want to hear about "opportunities".

Get real please.

Free medical care is disappearing, slowly but surely. My parents in their late 70’s early 80’s both lost their medical cards last year or year before. Both are ex state employees, paid tax all their lives. My father has a long term heart issue as well as worsening arthritis. My mother has one or two complaints including arthritis herself which although manageable need medication and physiotherapy to keep on top of.. Both meds and physio are privately paid for by her.

Yet, you can have people who land on our own shores to improve their own quality of life and economic wellbeing and get accommodation, cash, legal advice, medical treatment and a host of benefits having never contributed a red cent to the running and upkeep of the country...

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country

Sounds too much like equality of outcome.

I went to AIT which, by any measure, is not a wonderful college. Got my diploma from there, came back later to finish my degree. Paid, for the most part, by the State, although there were some fees. Later as a mature student, I received welfare support to help me further study, again in AIT. I got my MBA in Oz, which I paid for myself, and a further Bachelor, again in OZ, which I paid for myself.

Education is mostly free in this country. Some people want the prestige of a "better" institution, and they pay for it.. but for the vast majority of people out there in Ireland, they can get a decent level of education without investing in it, as they do in other countries. Barring the requirements on the LC points (which wasn't much), anyone could have done the course I did originally.

Equal opportunities abound. There were a wide range of students in my course 22 years ago, from all walks of life, including two Travellers. So.. nah.. equal Opportunities do exist. It's just that some people want to go to Trinity, and so, there are extra conditions to be met.

I've known self-made millionaires, and most of them started at the bottom. The difference is that most people don't have the courage to commit themselves to an idea, and turn it into a profitable business. I've been involved in two startups both of which were reasonably successful, although there were hard times. I find that few people want to commit themselves to the dedicated lifestyle that's generally required to transform a startup into being a success.

Equal opportunity is there. The issue is choice. Most people simply choose not to live that way.... unless it's handed to them tied together with a nice silver bow.

Wanderer78

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Come on, please stop with the hard luck fairytales.

Any garbage about crack babies and I walk, all things considered.

so the data and research proving that those born into wealthier families, have far better opportunities in life, and those that are born into relative poverty, do not, including in this country, must be wrong then! you re opportunities in life can regularly come down to your choice of parents and date of birth, just sometimes, so chose wisely!

Cyrus wrote: »

Yes but he could obviously afford to, if you can’t you can get a grant and kids can goto a local 3rd level.

but sometimes you cant, and sometimes some can struggle at the earlier stages in our educational system, and fail to meet the criteria to gain access to our third level systems, some of these individuals, are 'lucky' to gain employment at minimum wage!