How is China getting on?

DaSilva

DaSilva wrote: »

First off, it's not my first contribution to the thread, I have multiple posts in this thread.

Grand

Second my point was just that so much pandemic related discussion is really just people using the pandemic as a talking point for their underlying beliefs, and as a result often their opinions on what should or shouldn't be done is tainted by their support or opposition for states or politics.

By that metric every opinion that a person expresses is "tainted" by their support or opposition for states or politics. So, why should people be allowed to discuss anything at all? Although then again, many people are neither interested in politics nor have any kind of allegiance to the states being discussed, so, their opinions, are simply... their opinions.

Everyone has their own biases. Even you.

Considering that the topic concerns China, all manner of opinions will come out, because the nature of China on the world stage. Now.. There are many opinions here that I disagree with, and some I agree with.. but everyone should have a place to discuss such matters without needing a dedicated thread for that particular subject matter. This thread provides such a space.

Unhappy with the direction of the thread, contribute, and steer it in the direction of your own bias...

DaSilva

Deleted User wrote: »

So, why should people be allowed to discuss anything at all?

I haven't told anyone their opinion is allowed or not, nor have I said what should be discussed in this thread or not, I simply gave my opinion on how discussion seems to be so often more concerned with underlying politics than the pandemic itself. Sorry that this has triggered you.

Deleted User wrote: »

Unhappy with the direction of the thread, contribute, and steer it in the direction of your own bias...

I'm only unhappy that I am still discussing this weird meta-argument with you, where you unironically seem to be opposed to me sharing my opinion in this thread. I'm done with this little side track now personally.

DaSilva

DaSilva wrote: »

I haven't told anyone their opinion is allowed or not, nor have I said what should be discussed in this thread or not, I simply gave my opinion on how discussion seems to be so often more concerned with underlying politics than the pandemic itself. Sorry that this has triggered you.

I'm only unhappy that I am still discussing this weird meta-argument with you, where you unironically seem to be opposed to me sharing my opinion in this thread. I'm done with this little side track now personally.

Really? Where have I suggested that you not voice an opinion with regards to China? If anything, I've done the opposite and encouraged you to contribute further... as opposed to passing judgement over the posters on the thread, and their motivations in posting.

Your own words: "The thread title suggests the topic is about China and the pandemic, but its really just an opportunity for people to spout heir naive underlying political beliefs and biases with the appearance that its some commentary on the pandemic."

As for leaving it as it is... I'm fine with that.:D

Hodger

I just finished watching this sky news Australia report on China in relation to covid its an interesting watch.

Hodger

Hodger wrote: »

I just finished watching this sky news Australia report on China in relation to covid its an interesting watch.

SkyNews Australia, and most of the other Australian media stations are incredibly anti-China... going out of their way to post every kind of story that relates to China headed towards war. Australia has been engaging in a propaganda wave for the last two years... So, I'd take any report from them with a hefty pinch of salt.

archer22

Deleted User wrote: »

SkyNews Australia, and most of the other Australian media stations are incredibly anti-China... going out of their way to post every kind of story that relates to China headed towards war. Australia has been engaging in a propaganda wave for the last two years... So, I'd take any report from them with a hefty pinch of salt.

Australia for some strange reason considers itself to be the Pacific superpower :pac:

caoty

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https://twitter.com/wallacemick/status/1391304926438072321[/url]"][/url]

https://twitter.com/wallacemick/status/1391304926438072321

https://twitter.com/wallacemick/status/1389920479033577472

archer22

archer22 wrote: »

Australia for some strange reason considers itself to be the Pacific superpower :pac:

Oh, I think they're justified somewhat. China has tried to interfere in Australian politics on more than one occasion, and there's been a range of other issues. Nothing particularly "terrible", but still, reason enough to distrust China and to want to find allies... and better yet, encourage those allies to become even more hostile to China.

It's a strange one. Oz is very vulnerable considering it's geographical location, but is hell bent on increasing tensions between their two nations.

Hodger

Hodger wrote: »

I just finished watching this sky news Australia report on China in relation to covid its an interesting watch.

Sky News Australia news readers obviously undergo training from Tucker Carlsson. All about presenting a polemic direct to camera. But this comes from people who's job is to read an autocue. Would have some credibility if they at least interviewed someone qualified to speak on the matter

nc6000

I thought this was interesting in relation to claims China may not be telling us the whole story re the origins of Covid.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/anger-as-chinese-safari-park-kept-leopard-breakout-from-the-public-for-nearly-a-week

nc6000

nc6000 wrote: »

I thought this was interesting in relation to claims China may not be telling us the whole story re the origins of Covid.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/anger-as-chinese-safari-park-kept-leopard-breakout-from-the-public-for-nearly-a-week

You're almost certainly alone in thinking that is related to anything.

daydorunrun

nc6000 wrote: »

I thought this was interesting in relation to claims China may not be telling us the whole story re the origins of Covid.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/anger-as-chinese-safari-park-kept-leopard-breakout-from-the-public-for-nearly-a-week

You're stretching a bit to join the spots dot there I think!

archer22

nc6000 wrote: »

I thought this was interesting in relation to claims China may not be telling us the whole story re the origins of Covid.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/anger-as-chinese-safari-park-kept-leopard-breakout-from-the-public-for-nearly-a-week

Now that's what you call desperation!

nc6000

archer22 wrote: »

Now that's what you call desperation!

Desperation? I'm just making an observation that Chinese authorities mightn't be the most forthcoming with information.

nc6000

nc6000 wrote: »

Desperation? I'm just making an observation that Chinese authorities mightn't be the most forthcoming with information.

The article says it was Zoo staff who hid it.

It's such a bizarre stretch, it's hard to know where to start. Like imagine using something that happened at SeaWorld in San Diego as indicative of America's foreign policy.

MikeSoys

will be interesting if CCP makes a move against its next weakpoint (or beachead) that is Taiwan,

MikeSoys

MikeSoys wrote: »

will be interesting if CCP makes a move against its next weakpoint (or beachead) that is Taiwan,

I suspect we'll see an attempt within the next decade. Dunno how serious an attempt it'll be, but Xi needs to keep his promises to the military.

archer22

The issues between PRC, Taiwan and Hong Kong are an internal Chinese family dispute, I can't see any logical reason for outsiders to involve themselves in it..except of course to stir up trouble for all the participants in the dispute.

Which means of course they care not about the well being of any of them, but are simply following their own sinister agenda.

thebaz

havn't posted or read a Covid thread for a good while - has ther been any further update on how the virus started in Wuhan ??

Is it still considered an accident from the wet-market or an accident from virus centre or what ?

Am actually surprised the media are not asking similar questions, I find it so hard to understand also how China did not get a second wave, given what happened in Europe, India and U.S. and Brazil.

nc6000

thebaz wrote: »

havn't posted or read a Covid thread for a good while - has ther been any further update on how the virus started in Wuhan ??

Is it still considered an accident from the wet-market or an accident from virus centre or what ?

Am actually surprised the media are not asking similar questions, I find it so hard to understand also how China did not get a second wave, given what happened in Europe, India and U.S. and Brazil.

I haven't seen any recent update or further investigation into the origin of Covid.

You're probably asking in the wrong place too with the number of pro- China posters in here.

MikeSoys

it was a big blow to CCP when western countries said they would not use their 5G,

nc6000

nc6000 wrote: »

I haven't seen any recent update or further investigation into the origin of Covid.

You're probably asking in the wrong place too with the number of pro- China posters in here.

I wouldn't say pro-China. I'd say anti-hysteria. At the moment, the thread is wading through a putrid pond of escaped zoo animals, geopolitical tensions with Taiwan, and 5G networks.

And there is a conspiracy forum if you want to discuss Covid-19 made in a lab. This thread is about how China is getting on, and the poster you were responding to can't even get their heads around why they haven't experienced the same waves, when it's primary level stuff.

thebaz

Deleted User wrote: »

And there is a conspiracy forum if you want to discuss Covid-19 made in a lab. This thread is about how China is getting on, and the poster you were responding to can't even get their heads around why they haven't experienced the same waves, when it's primary level stuff.

I am that poster , is it so far fetched that it escaped from a lab in Wuhan , given ther is such a lab ther ???
and given the CCP were so slow and not exactlty transperent to the WHO fact finding mission into virus origins.

And no I cant get my head around the fact that the virus only really effected one city in China, and that ther have been only 91,000 cases in China and 4,600 deaths from Covid, given virus originated in China, and the massive number of cases in most other country's . Not so ****ing Primary.

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

I am that poster , is it so far fetched that it escaped from a lab in Wuhan , given ther is such a lab ther ???

It is when there is zero evidence, beyond a variety of opinion pieces. When you can produce some solid evidence that it happened, then, it steps out of the conspiracy theory category.

and given the CCP were so slow and not exactlty transperent to the WHO fact finding mission into virus origins.

So what? CCP/Chinese culture has always been opposed to the sharing of information with external organisations, especially organisations with links to the US. Anyone who thought they would be transparent with the WHO, knows nothing about China, and is simply looking for reasons to be outraged.

As for being slow.. yes, they were. Very slow. Now, compare that with western nations who knew what covid was, and still did almost nothing to stop the spread of it. Just as politicians throughout the west dismissed the risks of covid for months, until they decided to do a U-turn, and embrace the fear...

Double standards. Expecting China to behave in a manner that western nations wouldn't/didn't behave themselves.

And no I cant get my head around the fact that the virus only really effected one city in China, and that ther have been only 91,000 cases in China and 4,600 deaths from Covid, given virus originated in China, and the massive number of cases in most other country's . Not so ****ing Primary.

Here we can agree. I know that covid was present in other cities. It was reported on Chinese news stations, and again, on social media. It spread beyond Wuhan, and considering the huge aging population, low availability of modern medicine, and low standards of hygiene, I would imagine the cases to be in the tens, if not hundreds of millions. As for deaths, no idea.

All the same, it seems to have quietened considerably over the last few months, and in spite of the supreme belief by many on boards about the CCPs ability to control information, there would be a lot of references on social media if it was still widespread. Which there isn't. There are still outbreaks, but they're contained quickly, and efficiently. I suspect, at this stage, Chinese services are far more practiced at responding to an outbreak than western authorities.

DaSilva

thebaz wrote: »

I am that poster , is it so far fetched that it escaped from a lab in Wuhan , given ther is such a lab ther ???
and given the CCP were so slow and not exactlty transperent to the WHO fact finding mission into virus origins.

And no I cant get my head around the fact that the virus only really effected one city in China, and that ther have been only 91,000 cases in China and 4,600 deaths from Covid, given virus originated in China, and the massive number of cases in most other country's . Not so ****ing Primary.

Best guess on how they controlled it is that similar to NZ they locked down their borders and had mandatory quarantine for all arrivals. On top of that they did have other outbreaks apart from Wuhan where they locked down millions of people but they then tested everybody in a very short space of time and isolated all the infected cases. I think their last weapon against covid is one that nobody has anywhere else in the world is their surveillance state, I imagine if you randomly turn up sick to a doctor and subsequently test positive, they have an extremely accurate picture of who you have been in contact with, and I imagine they will have no hesitation in forcing all those people to quarantine until they can determine the exact spread.

Maybe its a big hoax and they have fooled us and really its spreading like crazy, but I don't think so. I think they demonstrated that rapid action in locking down large numbers of people, coupled with rapid mass testing and an extensive surveillance state can crush an epidemic.

DaSilva

DaSilva wrote: »

I think their last weapon against covid is one that nobody has anywhere else in the world is their surveillance state,

Their installation and operation of surveillance is limited to particular cities (1st tier).. not the whole country. In the 2nd tier, installation and monitoring is far behind that of the primary cities, and even then, considering the sheer sizes of Beijing and Guangzhou, actual coverage would be limited to particular districts.

Most of China doesn't have that kind of technological focus. It's still very much done by the police on the ground, and even then, there's never going to be enough to provide the coverage that many here seem to think is common.

No.. China's advantage is that it's still very much a community driven society, where gossip and passing of information is commonplace. Word spreads on issues... very quickly if you're in the loop, so people would know quickly if someone was sick. Considering how dense Chinese cities/towns tend to be, communities know each others business quite well, and a word to the local police would be easily done.

DaSilva

Deleted User wrote: »

Their installation and operation of surveillance is limited to particular cities (1st tier).. not the whole country. In the 2nd tier, installation and monitoring is far behind that of the primary cities, and even then, considering the sheer sizes of Beijing and Guangzhou, actual coverage would be limited to particular districts.

Most of China doesn't have that kind of technological focus. It's still very much done by the police on the ground, and even then, there's never going to be enough to provide the coverage that many here seem to think is common.

No.. China's advantage is that it's still very much a community driven society, where gossip and passing of information is commonplace. Word spreads on issues... very quickly if you're in the loop, so people would know quickly if someone was sick. Considering how dense Chinese cities/towns tend to be, communities know each others business quite well, and a word to the local police would be easily done.

I never mentioned technological surveillance, I just said surveillance. Surveillance can be carried out by "community driven passing of information" etc

caoty

May day holiday week, China 2021

Beijing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vycSbNGWcVE

Shanghai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XRmYTQ2Qek&t=240s

Xian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=859PuZ-fte4

Covid update
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

BTW it's all fake, Chinese CCP brainwashing, as usual.

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

I am that poster , is it so far fetched that it escaped from a lab in Wuhan , given ther is such a lab ther ???
and given the CCP were so slow and not exactlty transperent to the WHO fact finding mission into virus origins.

And no I cant get my head around the fact that the virus only really effected one city in China, and that ther have been only 91,000 cases in China and 4,600 deaths from Covid, given virus originated in China, and the massive number of cases in most other country's . Not so ****ing Primary.

It is, though. The measures countries like China, Vietnam, or New Zealand have taken are well-known and are clearly better for containing a pandemic than what "most other countries" did.

Expecting countries that successfully achieve zero-Covid for decently long periods of time to follow other countries' waves doesn't make sense. If it isn't in the community, and it isn't being introduced by regular international travel, how can it spread. It is incredibly basic. Your argument is akin to wondering why Ireland didn't have a Covid-19 outbreak in 1995.

I've spent the majority of this living life completely normally, but because some cases popped up again two weeks ago, schools and universities, along with restaurants etc. are closed. I was off work at the end of last January when Irish people were wondering if it just affected Asian people. Me, oranage, and Klaz were the only people affected by this virus for literally months, but then you call China slow. The West, or America anyway, had full notice since 2019 that this was coming, and just sat and waited. I doubt a country like Ireland would have even discovered this was a new virus if it sprang up there, and I really doubt they would locked down Dublin a la Wuhan when the rest of the world was still normal.

Flinty997

New Zealand had the advantage of remoteness and being an Island and a small population.

It makes no sense that countries with large populations and land borders could achieve the same lockdown. That they are police states and rigidly control their populations accounts for some of it, but also means they censor and control most of what you hear anyway. It's also means the population isn't subservient otherwise you wouldn't need police state.

Also controlling international travel doesn't help if it originated internally and spreads internally. Also if international travel was successfully controlled how did it get out of the country and spread all over the planet.

China is the classic boy who cried wolf. Even if it's true that that they managed to beat all the odds here. They would never tell us the truth anyway.

So what you're really asking people is to believe that China is taking the truth. When China never tells the truth about anything.