Munster vs CONNACHT match thread

Brief_Lives

Poorside wrote: »

It's a shoulder to the head, spin it however you want, that's a red card

with force....
with that much force you need to execute the tackle lower, but i'm sure richie knows that....

Poorside

thomond2006 wrote: »

6-2 split with POM/JOD/CJ starting and Holland/Cloete/JOS on the bench.

I'd start Cloete, he had a bloody good game today and has the bit of mongrel we need.
Only change I'd make is to start Killer if he's fit.

Richie_Rich89

Poorside wrote: »

It's a shoulder to the head, spin it however you want, that's a red card

To me it looks more like pectoral muscle to shoulder than shoulder to head. There might be some incidental head contact subsequently. It's all a bit unclear.

Poorside

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

To me it looks more like pectoral muscle to shoulder than shoulder to head. There might be some incidental head contact subsequently. It's all a bit unclear.

To me it looks like you're talking out your gluteus maximus.

Burkie1203

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

To me it looks more like pectoral muscle to shoulder than shoulder to head. There might be some incidental head contact subsequently. It's all a bit unclear.

It's not even debatable. He will get 4 weeks minimum.

Superfoods

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Looks like incidental contact to me. Murray's head would be tilted the other way if it was direct to the head. As it is his head has come forward and potentially hit Papali'i because his body is being driven backwards. Papali'i's playing with fire trying such a dominant upright tackle, but it's not a red card, for me.

It was a clear red card.

Squidgy Black

Always impresses me that no matter what, someone always bites. You've got it down to a tee Richie.

Buer

Poorside wrote: »

I'd start Cloete, he had a bloody good game today and has the bit of mongrel we need.
Only change I'd make is to start Killer if he's fit.

As a Leinster fan, I'd be delighted if Munster started Cloete. He doesn't have the power for the better teams and is worth a moment of terrible discipline in most games. Classic case of small man syndrome.

Poorside

Buer wrote: »

As a Leinster fan, I'd be delighted if Munster started Cloete. He doesn't have the power for the better teams and is worth a moment of terrible discipline in most games. Classic case of small man syndrome.

He's an absolute menace at the breakdown and that is clearly very important with the new focus, being a bit shorter than most 7's is an advantage right now, lower centre of gravity is a bonus for him.
And to say he doesn't have the power is miles off the mark.

budhabob

Buer wrote: »

As a Leinster fan, I'd be delighted if Munster started Cloete. He doesn't have the power for the better teams and is worth a moment of terrible discipline in most games. Classic case of small man syndrome.

Cloete wrecks my head as a munster fan, and to be honest I wouldnt have him anywhere near the starting 15. He's definitely not underpowered though, his "beast" lift today was case in point.

I'd start JOD next week for sure.

Akrasia

Poorside wrote: »

I'd start Cloete, he had a bloody good game today and has the bit of mongrel we need.
Only change I'd make is to start Killer if he's fit.

Colete does give a few penalties away per match but he’s such a tenacious and disruptive player when his head is in the game And with the new interpretation of the breakdown he has the potential to win a lot more turnovers than he concedes


I’d start him on Friday if we have the same aggressive game plan we had against Leinster last week

Akrasia

VANG1 wrote: »

Aki. He gave it to a player from the losing team last week?

Aki deserved to be man of the match. If it wasn’t for him I think Munster would have put 60+ points on the board

He was incredibly powerful and dynamic and was involved in almost every positive move Connacht made since he came on. And I say all this as a massive Tadhg Beirne fan

b.gud

b.gud wrote: »

Reckon this Connacht side are going to put in a better performance than some are expecting. Still think that given the strength of the side and the fact they have something to play for means it will be a Munster win. I reckon Munster by 6

Look at this idiot suggesting it would be a close game, what was he thinking

I, thankfully as it turns out, didn't get a chance to watch the full game as I had a family occasion. But in the 25 minutes I saw, through a very dodgy stream, here's a few thoughts I had.

Munster really came out of the blocks and showed that they meant business today and that they wanted to guarantee that semi final spot. The red card really put a halt to any chances of it being a good contest as it just got scrappy after that. On the red card there was 1 angle where it looked like the initial contact was to the shoulder but the angle that the TMO said was best definitely looked like initial contact to the head, all things considered I think it's fair to say that it was a red. Didn't see the Delahunt one so can't comment on that one.

I thought Blade looked quite lively in the bits I saw of him, will be good to see him and Marion push each other on. De Buitler looked very dodgy in defence in the couple of attempts I saw him make. Connacht really need to work on their discipline at the breakdown between this week and last week their penalty count has been too high around the breakdown.

I don't know how Toland keeps getting work he is just so bad as a commentators half the time he hasn't a clue who is doing what on the pitch and gets it totally wrong. The way the commentators were determined to talk about how impressive Papali'i was no matter what I think they must have been talking to connachta for their prep work on Connacht


Also after reading through the thread its good to see that everyone has used the break provided by covid to do some soul searching and come back to interpro threads with a a newfound sense of zen and reasoned thinking in their posts

Superfoods

Why didn’t Munster give some of the younger players a chance?

The Lost Sheep

Superfoods wrote: »

Why didn’t Munster give some of the younger players a chance?

which younger players and Munster were only province with something to play for over the weekend .....

Yeah_Right

Poorside wrote: »

It's a shoulder to the head, spin it however you want, that's a red card

How come Murray didn't go for an HIA? If it was a clear shoulder to the head, surely he should have been checked out.

Bazzo

I presume any bans can run over the next 4 weeks like they did during covid? :pac:

mun1 wrote: »

Job done . pretty handy training run in the end .
Not great preparation for next week though and couldn’t get over the 50 point mark, which should have been the target based on the team they put out.

pity Connaught could make a game of it, second red settled the contest.
No injuries hopefully , Roll on next week where a much tougher challenge awaits.
Ireland should make sure aki gets a decent rest for a bit.

Hopefully Mounstar make more of a game if it next week than Connacht did this week.

phog

Poor enough fare from both teams but Connacht's discipline was awful, the worst I've seen from them. I thought they'd have the benifit of playing under Frank last week but they couldn't cope, a team YC within minutes of kickoff is almost unheardof. I think their discipline got worse when Aki arrived on, he seemed to bring in a niggle to the game that wasn't there before he was subbed on. No issue with any of the cards but if Beirne's was yellow then Aki should have followed him later on, lying across a ruck, hand on ball and Connacht win a penalty. I suppose it goes to show that the ref has far too much to be watching and has to make fast calls.

Very happy with the result and that we seemed to come through this game without the sort of injuries we picked up against Leinster but it's hardly a game that you'd keep to rewatch on a rainy day.

connachta

b.gud wrote: »

determined to talk about how impressive Papali'i was no matter what I think they must have been talking to connachta for their prep work on Connacht

Papali'i did look good. Carries, ball stripped off, impressive power.

We always knew he'd struggle for tackling technique and lasting fresh.

He's the perfect n°20, so

Zzippy

On reflection, I think the Pro14 should hold a hearing and award Connacht that game yesterday. James Cronin came on when he should have been serving his one month ban. A 20-0 bp win will do... :pac:

On a serious note, though, how was he allowed to serve a ban while Munster had no games? They will need to give Papali'i and Delahunt min 6 week bans to ensure they miss any games if that's the case.

thomond2006

There was a player banned recently where his weeks were converted to a number of 'material games' or similar. I can't remember where/who.

aloooof

Zzippy wrote: »

On reflection, I think the Pro14 should hold a hearing and award Connacht that game yesterday. James Cronin came on when he should have been serving his one month ban. A 20-0 bp win will do... :pac:

On a serious note, though, how was he allowed to serve a ban while Munster had no games? They will need to give Papali'i and Delahunt min 6 week bans to ensure they miss any games if that's the case.

Marler was the same iirc, all matches were postponed during his 10 week ban for his, er, interference with AWJ. It's a bit ridiculous tbh.

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

There was a player banned recently where his weeks were converted to a number of 'material games' or similar. I can't remember where/who.

What does that even mean, though?

theboss80

Game was pretty much over after the second red card. Aki did bring a huge amount of passion to his side which wasn't replicated y the rest of the team.

Hanrahan had another solid game I thought as did Conway who is on fire with 4 tries in two games now. Would have liked to see Munster take the ball to the line a bit more when numbers were up as we fell into old ways for a bit there when it wasn't needed.

Very much looking forward to next Friday now, think they showed how the CAN beat Leinster last week but need to push that on now. Think Kelliher will be under pressure at lineout again and scrum will be interesting.

Lowe vs Conway
Henshaw/Ringrose vs DDA/Farrell again

Leinster rightly favorites but....

thomond2006

Zzippy wrote: »

What does that even mean, though?

Well it means Munster players can come back immediately while Connacht players have to sit the next X number of Pro14 games out.

Do keep up Zzippy!

aloooof

Zzippy wrote: »

What does that even mean, though?

I think that's the difficulty and likely why bans in weeks are handed out, rather than matches? Sonny Bill Williams previously got around a 4 match ban by including some warm-up games.

Superfoods

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

which younger players and Munster were only province with something to play for over the weekend .....

Yes what young players, says it all really

The Lost Sheep

Superfoods wrote: »

Yes what young players, says it all really

:rolleyes:
What players should have been involved then? None of the other provinces had anything to play for over the weekend so could play lot more younger players. Munster did so had to play more first choice...

molloyjh

I've seen the young player malarkey re Munster elsewhere too. I find it really odd. Yesterday's game was eefectively a knock out game. Thats not the time to blood players. Theres a season ahead that will be pretty demanding on internationals so there's going to be a lot of opportunities for young players then.

Superfoods

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

:rolleyes:
What players should have been involved then? None of the other provinces had anything to play for over the weekend so could play lot more younger players. Munster did so had to play more first choice...

Are you really say that Munster couldn't put in a few younger player and not beat a second-string Connacht side? all they required was a win or 2 points. Hardly a huge task to require the full team.

Did they need JJ and Murray at 10/9? Could they have tried either McCarthy or Casey at 9 with JJ? or maybe rest the only senior fit 10 and give some of the other guys a run? Did they need Earls and Conway on the wing? POM starting in back row with Stander?

It wasn't as if this was a shock that Connacht would play the second team, they said it ages ago if I remember correctly.

aloooof

molloyjh wrote: »

I've seen the young player malarkey re Munster elsewhere too. I find it really odd. Yesterday's game was eefectively a knock out game. Thats not the time to blood players. Theres a season ahead that will be pretty demanding on internationals so there's going to be a lot of opportunities for young players then.

Exactly this. The time to blood players might be, for example, in the game against Connacht earlier in the season. Daly, Nash, Goggin, Liam Coombes, Casey and Gavin Coombes all started.

thomond2006

Superfoods wrote: »

Are you really say that Munster couldn't put in a few younger player and not beat a second-string Connacht side? all they required was a win or 2 points. Hardly a huge task to require the full team.

Did they need JJ and Murray at 10/9? Could they have tried either McCarthy or Casey at 9 with JJ? or maybe rest the only senior fit 10 and give some of the other guys a run? Did they need Earls and Conway on the wing? POM starting in back row with Stander?

It wasn't as if this was a shock that Connacht would play the second team, they said it ages ago if I remember correctly.

The scenario of resting players and losing this game was not an acceptable one.

Due to fixture congestion the likes of Murray, Conway and Earls are going to be away with Ireland a lot. Casey will probably start at least half of the Pro14 regular season. JJ will be with Munster but as you say he's the only fit senior 10 so will need to be rotated out.

The Lost Sheep

Superfoods wrote: »

Are you really say that Munster couldn't put in a few younger player and not beat a second-string Connacht side? all they required was a win or 2 points. Hardly a huge task to require the full team.

Did they need JJ and Murray at 10/9? Could they have tried either McCarthy or Casey at 9 with JJ? or maybe rest the only senior fit 10 and give some of the other guys a run? Did they need Earls and Conway on the wing? POM starting in back row with Stander?

It wasn't as if this was a shock that Connacht would play the second team, they said it ages ago if I remember correctly.

It was a must win. Why run the risk of not getting into the playoffs.
We are going straight into a new season. McCarthy and Casey will get plenty of game time in the 20-21 season.

Zzippy

aloooof wrote: »

I think that's the difficulty and likely why bans in weeks are handed out, rather than matches? Sonny Bill Williams previously got around a 4 match ban by including some warm-up games.

I know bans are still reported in terms of weeks, but I thought in recent years they had been very clear that x number of weeks = x number of competitive games e.g. a provincial player could no longer get around a ban by "not playing" an AIL game. Look, its not relevant to yesterday's game really, just interesting going forward if that has changed and that's why Cronin didn't actually miss any games.

Zzippy

phog wrote: »

Poor enough fare from both teams but Connacht's discipline was awful, the worst I've seen from them. I thought they'd have the benifit of playing under Frank last week but they couldn't cope, a team YC within minutes of kickoff is almost unheardof. I think their discipline got worse when Aki arrived on, he seemed to bring in a niggle to the game that wasn't there before he was subbed on. No issue with any of the cards but if Beirne's was yellow then Aki should have followed him later on, lying across a ruck, hand on ball and Connacht win a penalty. I suppose it goes to show that the ref has far too much to be watching and has to make fast calls.

Very happy with the result and that we seemed to come through this game without the sort of injuries we picked up against Leinster but it's hardly a game that you'd keep to rewatch on a rainy day.

Pretty sure Beirne went for a team yellow. Despite POM going for the same reason a couple of minutes earlier, they kept infringing and he was just the one that Frank picked. Poor enough defence that they couldn't keep out 13 men without giving away so many penalties. Leinster will relish that. Something they need to work on for Friday.
Can't really blame Aki for Delahunt's moment of madness, the other cards came before he was even on the pitch IIRC, and Connacht came into the game more when he came on. If anything he brought the bit of aggression and energy that was needed. Yeah he had a few verbal exchanges but that was Cloete getting involved too, the two of them didn't seem to like each other.

Henry Ford III

2 moments of madness resulted in 2 deserved red cards. Ref had no options.

Connacht are a bit of a shambles tbh. The new No.8 looks useful but needs to remain on the pitch.

The Lost Sheep

Henry Ford III wrote: »

2 moments of madness resulted in 2 deserved red cards. Ref had no options.

Connacht are a bit of a shambles tbh. The new No.8 looks useful but needs to remain on the pitch.

I dont see how theyre a shambles
They treated the games like pre season as they had nothing to play for and are now finished games for a while while the rest were all playing for potential trophies. The results dont mean theyre a shambles.

Zzippy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

2 moments of madness resulted in 2 deserved red cards. Ref had no options.

Connacht are a bit of a shambles tbh. The new No.8 looks useful but needs to remain on the pitch.

A full strength Munster team couldn't keep out 13 men without conceding two deserved yellow cards. Ref had no options.

Munster are a bit of a shambles tbh. Up two men and concede two yellows. Up two men and kick repeatedly rather than exploit the space. Should have scored 3/4 more tries. The new No. 12 looks useful but needs some brains around him on the pitch.

arsebiscuits1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

2 moments of madness resulted in 2 deserved red cards. Ref had no options.

Connacht are a bit of a shambles tbh. The new No.8 looks useful but needs to remain on the pitch.

Are they?

2 reds is extremely unlucky. Even though they were both merited.

They looked excellent against Ulster.

Connacht fronted up reasonably well despite playing for so long with 13 men. And this would have been a good chunk of the starting teams first game in 6 months

phog

tit for tat

Cookiemunster

Zzippy wrote: »

A full strength Munster team couldn't keep out 13 men without conceding two deserved yellow cards. Ref had no options.

Munster are a bit of a shambles tbh. Up two men and concede two yellows. Up two men and kick repeatedly rather than exploit the space. Should have scored 3/4 more tries. The new No. 12 looks useful but needs some brains around him on the pitch.

That full strength Munster team was 14 nil up before the red cards. 7 trys scored will do in my book. And what was the final score again?

Cookiemunster

Zzippy wrote: »

I know bans are still reported in terms of weeks, but I thought in recent years they had been very clear that x number of weeks = x number of competitive games e.g. a provincial player could no longer get around a ban by "not playing" an AIL game. Look, its not relevant to yesterday's game really, just interesting going forward if that has changed and that's why Cronin didn't actually miss any games.

I'm assuming it's because Cronin wasn't banned for an on the field incident so the disciplinary process and outcome are different. It wasn't a citing commission that gave out his ban.

Zzippy

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That full strength Munster team was 14 nil up before the red cards. 7 trys scored will do in my book. And what was the final score again?

Munster were always going to win with a bp against Connacht's second string. I find it objectionable a team being described as a shambles for two individual errors. If that's the bar, then it's easy to pick poor discipline from any team and call them a shambles. That was the point.

But if I was a Munster fan, I would be worried about the close-in defence just before half time against 13 men. A full strength Leinster team will be licking their lips watching that.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm assuming it's because Cronin wasn't banned for an on the field incident so the disciplinary process and outcome are different. It wasn't a citing commission that gave out his ban.

Interesting, and you may be spot on. Still a weird one. Good to see him back fit and playing anyway.

Bazzo

Henry Ford III wrote: »

2 moments of madness resulted in 2 deserved red cards. Ref had no options.

Connacht are a bit of a shambles tbh. The new No.8 looks useful but needs to remain on the pitch.

Shambles? Explain please

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That full strength Munster team was 14 nil up before the red cards. 7 trys scored will do in my book. And what was the final score again?

You're getting a bit wound up there, he turned the post around to make a point. Calling Connacht a shambles is ridiculous

aloooof

Zzippy wrote: »

I know bans are still reported in terms of weeks, but I thought in recent years they had been very clear that x number of weeks = x number of competitive games e.g. a provincial player could no longer get around a ban by "not playing" an AIL game. Look, its not relevant to yesterday's game really, just interesting going forward if that has changed and that's why Cronin didn't actually miss any games.

Agreed, whatever way bans are handed out, you'd have to imagine that in the spirit of the law / game, Cronin (and Marler) both should have missed game time requisite to the bans. It's weird to me that they didn't.

aloooof

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm assuming it's because Cronin wasn't banned for an on the field incident so the disciplinary process and outcome are different. It wasn't a citing commission that gave out his ban.

I don't think Marler missed any of his 10 game ban either tho?

connemara man

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That full strength Munster team was 14 nil up before the red cards. 7 trys scored will do in my book. And what was the final score again?

That full strength Munster team needed Connacht to have someone in the bin before scoring a point so ya know

aloooof

connemara man wrote: »

That full strength Munster team needed Connacht to have someone in the bin before scoring a point so ya know

You're basically criticising Munster for not scoring a point before the 7th minute here, which seems a bit... silly.

connachta

aloooof wrote: »

You're basically criticising Munster for not scoring a point before the 7th minute here, which seems a bit... silly.

Taking reds apart:

Except discipline, mauls, and partly scrum (which is a lot) Connacht didn't look dominated in contact, and defence in open play (which is good)

molloyjh

aloooof wrote: »

You're basically criticising Munster for not scoring a point before the 7th minute here, which seems a bit... silly.

Hes not really.