Boomer Wealth

beauf

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's hardly bloody Manhattan or Chelsea, is it? It's a reasonably nice, normal, leafy bit of Dublin a good bit outside the city centre. Why should someone on average money not be able to live in a tiny little flat there?

You are totally backtracking now. One minute you're saying single people on average money expect 3 bed houses in the city and now you're saying that a studio flat in Dublin 6 is unrealistic and that they can actually only expect a one-bed in Tallaght or East Wall.

Which is it?

Basic truth is people are priced out of Dublin.

Do a search for properties of a max of 150k around the country and go from there.

If the prices are the same Manhattan or Chelsea and the wages are higher there, then if you moved there you'd be better off.

Wanderer78

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I agree with you and I think banks should allow and even encourage this for some but sometimes they won't grant a mortgage without such a renovation fund.

we ve given our private sector financial institutions, too much control of our monetary systems, we need to move it back towards a more democratic existence, even though we still need functioning private sector institutions

lainey_d_123

beauf wrote: »

The point is not to renovate. Live in like its the 80s. If you look at people who decide to live in tiny houses, or on a boat, or in a van. They generally getting out of the rat race. Its deciding to stay in the rat race thats causing these issues.

if i was starting out I wouldn't be in Dublin and probably not Ireland. Ignoring Covid etc.

Right, so on one hand you're criticising millennials for being spoiled and on the other you're looking at people forced to live in vans or boats because they can't afford actual homes and holding them up as some kind of example. When millennials live in tiny houses and vans, it's held up as being some sort of bougie life choice for hipsters instead of what it actually is - young people who are poor and homeless and desperately trying to do anything they can to avoid the rent trap.

Boats and vans aren't even the answer, by the way. I was seriously considering a house boat to live on the canals, and they're tens of thousands to buy, even if they're in poor condition, and then mooring fees on top if you actually want to 'live' anywhere.

Remind me again how tough our parents had it?

Wanderer78

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Right, so on one hand you're criticising millennials for being spoiled and on the other you're looking at people forced to live in vans or boats because they can't afford actual homes and holding them up as some kind of example. When millennials live in tiny houses and vans, it's held up as being some sort of bougie life choice for hipsters instead of what it actually is - young people who are poor and homeless and desperately trying to do anything they can to avoid the rent trap.

Boats and vans aren't even the answer, by the way. I was seriously considering a house boat to live on the canals, and they're tens of thousands to buy, even if they're in poor condition, and then mooring fees on top if you actually want to 'live' anywhere.

Remind me again how tough our parents had it?

not 100% true, we d only know if we surveyed every single one of them, but there is an element of truth to your statement

Yyhhuuu

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

No, they're not, though. That's the point. Any 'luxuries' I allow myself are a tiny, tiny proportion of my take-home pay. I'm spending over 50% of it on rent and bills alone, then my next biggest expense is food, and then transport. So something like 70% of my post tax earnings are gone on basic survival alone, before I even get into trying to save, or having any disposable income.

As I've said on this thread, I've had no life at all for the last six months due to covid and it's barely made any difference. That's how few 'luxuries' I have, that even a global pandemic, lockdown and staying in the four walls of my home for six months haven't really made a massive difference to what I can save. If I could live rent-free, I'd have a deposit together in 2 years just from the rent savings alone. Why are people babbling on about lattes and Netflix and ignoring the elephant in the room?

I am frugal. I already do cut back on almost everything, because I dislike spending my hard earned money on frivolous things. But the difference it makes is really minimal.

That's a terrible situation to be in Lainet d. I think it's so terribly important to be able to save for ones future.

The J Stands for Jay

Charles Babbage wrote: »

It was different than now. People's wages increase because of experience and because of inflation. Back when inflation was 10%+, so your wages would double over a few years for inflation reasons alone and that made the mortgage affordable. The first couple of years were tough, but there was light at end of the tunnel.

Everyone seems to be missing that high interest rates are accompanied by high inflation, which means that the outstanding amount of the loan is reducing in real terms as well as through repayment.

Wanderer78

McGaggs wrote: »

Everyone seems to be missing that high interest rates are accompanied by high inflation, which means that the outstanding amount of the loan is reducing in real terms as well as through repayment.

doesnt look like inflation, as we commonly know it, may not be a concern for some time, deflation could be the problem now, which brings its own set of problems

beauf

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Right, so on one hand you're criticising millennials for being spoiled and on the other you're looking at people forced to live in vans or boats because they can't afford actual homes and holding them up as some kind of example. When millennials live in tiny houses and vans, it's held up as being some sort of bougie life choice for hipsters instead of what it actually is - young people who are poor and homeless and desperately trying to do anything they can to avoid the rent trap.

Boats and vans aren't even the answer, by the way. I was seriously considering a house boat to live on the canals, and they're tens of thousands to buy, even if they're in poor condition, and then mooring fees on top if you actually want to 'live' anywhere.

Remind me again how tough our parents had it?

Actually I didn't but hyperbole is a unconvincing way to make an argument.

A lot of parents didn't stay in Ireland. They left. They were jammed into all sorts of housing much like the economic migrants into Ireland are doing today. its also a repeat of what happened before that in the 50's etc.

The alternative housing is what it is. There are many ways to do that.

But the fact remains people are chasing something thats not affordable.

Wanderer78

beauf wrote: »

Actually I didn't but hyperbole is a unconvincing way to make an argument.

A lot of parents didn't stay in Ireland. They left. They were jammed into all sorts of housing much like the economic migrants into Ireland are doing today. its also a repeat of what happened before that in the 50's etc.

The alternative housing is what it is. There are many ways to do that.

But the fact remains people are chasing something thats not affordable.

just build the fecken things!

Pkiernan

Millennials seem to want it all, but want previous generations to pay for it.

I lived in SF in the lates 90s.
Rent was $900 for one room.
More than snowflakes pay now.
I saved and worked as much OT as I could get.
I didnt blow my money on shyte like so many people of all ages do now.

Younger folks should try this concept out.

beauf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

just build the fecken things!

Build what and where though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefabs_in_the_United_Kingdom

HerrKuehn

What is meant by average income by the way? I mean a single person on 40k would get about €2600 after tax per month. If they stay in a house share (say a room in a 4 bed house), should be what 6-700 a month. I know a room in a 2 bed apartment would be a lot more than that. Surely you should be able to save about 1k per month in this situation?

beauf

Pkiernan wrote: »

Millennials seem to want it all, but want previous generations to pay for it.

I lived in SF in the lates 90s.
Rent was $900 for one room.
More than snowflakes pay now.
I saved and worked as much OT as I could get.
I didnt blow my money on shyte like so many people of all ages do now.

Younger folks should try this concept out.

Went I went to Germany some of us started out by camping in woods.
Not me I had a nice cosy prefab dorm in a factory carpark.
The down side was working hazardous chemicals and materials.

BattleCorp

HerrKuehn wrote: »

What is meant by average income by the way? I mean a single person on 40k would get about €2600 after tax per month. If they stay in a house share (say a room in a 4 bed house), should be what 6-700 a month. I know a room in a 2 bed apartment would be a lot more than that. Surely you should be able to save about 1k per month in this situation?

While I'm all for saving, the issue seems to be that property is going up quicker than people can save.

HerrKuehn

BattleCorp wrote: »

While I'm all for saving, the issue seems to be that property is going up quicker than people can save.

They aren't rising much if at all anymore though. If you saved 1k per month for 5 years you would have 60k and be in a great position to buy. Especially if there is a good opportunity where prices drop.

Ush1

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's hardly bloody Manhattan or Chelsea, is it? It's a reasonably nice, normal, leafy bit of Dublin a good bit outside the city centre. Why should someone on average money not be able to live in a tiny little flat there?

You are totally backtracking now. One minute you're saying single people on average money expect 3 bed houses in the city and now you're saying that a studio flat in Dublin 6 is unrealistic and that they can actually only expect a one-bed in Tallaght or East Wall.

Which is it?

I'm not back tracking on anything. To answer your first question about Dublin 6, because they can't afford it obviously.

I never said you should be able to buy a one bed anywhere in Dublin city, but you can in East Wall or Tallaght.

You moaning about not being able to buy in Dublin 6 perfectly illustrates my point actually.

Hoboo

BattleCorp wrote: »

While I'm all for saving, the issue seems to be that property is going up quicker than people can save.

I'd like to see their weekly spend v save. Eating out and buying new clothes shouldn't be a quarterly spend let alone weekly when trying to save.

Wanderer78

beauf wrote: »

Build what and where though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefabs_in_the_United_Kingdom

build proper accommodation, we can easily get whats needed to do it, the will just isnt there

BattleCorp

HerrKuehn wrote: »

They aren't rising much if at all anymore though. If you saved 1k per month for 5 years you would have 60k and be in a great position to buy. Especially if there is a good opportunity where prices drop.

Yep, €60k is a great deposit now. And will be in 5 years time because of the poxy recession on the way (actually, it's here already).

Tis very hard to have the discipline to save €1k per month for 5 years though.

The J Stands for Jay

blanch152 wrote: »

The people growing up in the 1980s didn't have foreign holidays, many families didn't own even one car, they didn't have gym memberships, they didn't get a latte on the way to work in the morning, they had hand-me-down clothes and certainly didn't have NIKEs etc. and lost more besides. A meal in a restaurant, even a chipper was a once a year occasion.

To buy that three up/two down house, a lot of sacrifices therefore had to made and they were often in their early 30s before they could afford it. The same sacrifices today would make it possible, it's just that people aren't prepared to make them. And that's ok, them's the choices, I don't have a problem with them making those choices, it's the whinging about it afterwards that's the problem.

Grew up in the 1980s, weren't well off. First foreign holiday was in 1990 when the parents realised it was as cheap as a holiday in Ireland. Parents had a car since before I was born. May have been rust buckets, but that was acceptable in the 80s. There wasn't a gym to be a member of in most places. Latés hadn't been invented in Ireland at that stage, but people still had coffee available in cafés; there was no such thing as takeaway hot drinks. Kids still to this day get hand me down clothes. Nike only started expanding outside the US in the 80s. Meals in chippers were common enough, either weekly or fortnightly in some families. Meals in hotels (very few restaurants outside of hotels back then) would be a few times a year, usually for events like christenings etc.

The main difference between then and now was the availability of things and their cost.

beauf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

build proper accommodation, we can easily get whats needed to do it, the will just isnt there

That no-one is willing to do it suggests it's not easy.

I suspect it's what people consider "proper" is partly the issue.

HerrKuehn

BattleCorp wrote: »

Yep, €60k is a great deposit now. And will be in 5 years time because of the poxy recession on the way (actually, it's here already).

Tis very hard to have the discipline to save €1k per month for 5 years though.

It is for some people and not for others. It really depends on how you are with money. I didn't have very much when I was in college, I was trying to support myself by working the summer. So I was used to being frugal. I was saving up after college during the property bubble(~2007), watching prices move away from me all the time. But, if you get yourself into a good position savings wise, you can take advantage of any drop in prices.

Wanderer78

beauf wrote: »

That no-one is willing to do it suggests it's not easy.

I suspect it's what people consider "proper" is partly the issue.

go way outta that, its largely based in flawed ideological thinking, tis time to move on from all this 'the market' nonsense!

BattleCorp

Wanderer78 wrote: »

go way outta that, its largely based in flawed ideological thinking, tis time to move on from all this 'the market' nonsense!

Where would you build?
What would you build?
How would you pay for it?

Wanderer78

BattleCorp wrote: »

Where would you build?
What would you build?
How would you pay for it?

seriously!

some sort of new accommodation is needed in most of our cities, and their surrounding suburbs, and by the looks of it, theres still plenty of vacant property also around the place

a mixture of adequate apartments and housing

as how we always do, via financial institutions in both the public and private sectors!

Feisar

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

The problem isn't lattes and Netflix. The problem is spending 50% of your income on substandard, crappy accommodation (often just a room in a shared flat) just to have a roof over your head.

Agreed, the way I got my feet under me was working abroad with my employer paying for my accommodation etc.

At the same time the Lattés and Netflix add up.

Wanderer78

Feisar wrote: »

Agreed, the way I got my feet under me was working abroad with my employer paying for my accommodation etc.

At the same time the Lattés and Netflix add up.

again, if younger generations gave up literally everything, including eating and clothing, theyd probably still struggle to get access to the housing and accommodation markets. theres a limit to what the individuals can do, to do so, as more external factors are actually at play in causing our current situation regarding the matter

beauf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

go way outta that, its largely based in flawed ideological thinking, tis time to move on from all this 'the market' nonsense!

I never mentioned the market.

But your expectations are misaligned with reality.

Wanderer78

beauf wrote: »

I never mentioned the market.

But your expectations are misaligned with reality.

meaning?

osarusan

beauf wrote: »

But your expectations are misaligned with reality.

Again I agree with you, but again, I think that equally applies to people who just think it's a matter of saving and sacrificing more.



Their understanding of just how far that will take you is misaligned with reality.