Boomer Wealth

Wanderer78

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Surely your choice of career is something that was within your control? I mean you could have chosen to go into an area that paid better.

a person only has an element of control of choice of career, many factors are out of their control, remembering such choices can come down to your choice of parents, and date of birth, so chose both, wisely!

lainey_d_123

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Surely your choice of career is something that was within your control? I mean you could have chosen to go into an area that paid better.

I mean, I did pick something that normally would have worked out really well. I had a good grad scheme lined up at a major bank. I didn't know there would be a huge global financial crash the year I graduated, did I? You know how you studied Comp Sci and graduated into the dot com bubble? Well, imagine that times about a thousand, and imagine if it was almost every industry.

lainey_d_123

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a person only has an element of control of choice of career, many factors are out of their control, remembering such choices can come down to your choice of parents, and date of birth, so chose both, wisely!

But even within career choices, you only have so much control. A degree takes 3 or 4 years. What seemed like an amazing choice when you started might be a disaster by the time you've graduated, for a number of reasons.

I know a few people who spent years and lots of money training as pilots and got into major airlines, thinking they were set for life with well-paid jobs. Who ever could have predicted a global pandemic which grounded flights for months and will reduce flight numbers for years to come?

Has this pandemic not shown us that the idea of having personal control over your situation is mostly total fantasy? You can try your best, and plan, and have back-up plans, but ultimately there's only so much you can do.

HerrKuehn

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I mean, I did pick something that normally would have worked out really well. I had a good grad scheme lined up at a major bank. I didn't know there would be a huge global financial crash the year I graduated, did I? You know how you studied Comp Sci and graduated into the dot com bubble? Well, imagine that times about a thousand, and imagine if it was almost every industry.

Well you are making out as if you have had a uniquely disadvantaged situation. It is up to you to better your situation, no one else. As I mentioned previously, I grew up in a rough working class estate, none of my friends went to college, my parents have no formal education. I had very little money going to college, had to work to pay for it. For 3 years I had a brutal commute as I couldn't afford to live there. For the final year I had saved up enough to live on campus. I was used to saving every penny I had because I didn't have many of them. I knew I had to focus on a career that would pay out. I knew there would be no one who would be able help, no connections at all. I never complained about any of it. I always just thought, this is the situation, what can I do to make it better?

Former Former

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

the value of your house dropping only matters if you want to sell it. you were happy to pay the price at the time. you still have a house.

id love to have a house to complain about depreciation.

So, you're unemployed, pondering emigration and still think a large mortgage would be a good thing. I'm sorry to be so blunt but that is mental.

But you've summed up this thread beautifully.

You've shrugged off the property crash and the ensuing misery it caused for hundreds of thousands of people because it didn't affect YOU. This whole thread is based on the idea that baby boomers got a free ride, which anyone who lived through the 80s would tell you is complete nonsense. That might be true in middle class America but not in Ireland. No one even acknowledges the emigration and poverty because it didn't happen to THEM.

The idea that this generation are uniquely disadvantaged is a fantasy. But social media has created an echo chamber for them to convince each other that it's true. That's the only difference.

lainey_d_123

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Well you are making out as if you have had a uniquely disadvantaged situation. It is up to you to better your situation, no one else. As I mentioned previously, I grew up in a rough working class estate, none of my friends went to college, my parents have no formal education. I had very little money going to college, had to work to pay for it. For 3 years I had a brutal commute as I couldn't afford to live there. For the final year I had saved up enough to live on campus. I was used to saving every penny I had because I didn't have many of them. I knew I had to focus on a career that would pay out. I knew there would be no one who would be able help, no connections at all. I never complained about any of it. I always just thought, this is the situation, what can I do to make it better?

No, I'm not. I'm saying people who graduated in or around 2008 had the most brutal job market in decades. I too grew up in a poor family on an estate and was the first in my family to go to college - who cares about your sob story? What's your point? You're the one who thinks you had it hard because you graduated into the 'dot com crash', which as another poster correctly pointed out, was barely a ripple compared to what happened in 2008.

If you thought you had it tough, just as well you didn't graduate when I did. You would have had a meltdown. I didn't 'just complain', I worked the minimum wage jobs that were available, emigrated, retrained twice and kept going, but if you think graduating into that mess didn't have a huge impact on my career opportunities or you think what you experienced was anything like as bad, you're a bit deluded. You graduated during the bloody boom times!

lainey_d_123

Former Former wrote: »

So, you're unemployed, pondering emigration and still think a large mortgage would be a good thing. I'm sorry to be so blunt but that is mental.

But you've summed up this thread beautifully.

You've shrugged off the property crash and the ensuing misery it caused for hundreds of thousands of people because it didn't affect YOU. This whole thread is based on the idea that baby boomers got a free ride, which anyone who lived through the 80s would tell you is complete nonsense. That might be true in middle class America but not in Ireland. No one even acknowledges the emigration and poverty because it didn't happen to THEM.

The idea that this generation are uniquely disadvantaged is a fantasy. But social media has created an echo chamber for them to convince each other that it's true. That's the only difference.

I don't think it is all that mental. He's right - you have a house and it's yours. He still can't afford one, despite slogging away for years on end. Yes, you might have been in negative equity, but is that worse than throwing away thousands of euro on rent month after month, year after year?

You're criticising him for thinking he has it worse, yet you're telling him you have it worse. You think your house being worth less than when you bought it (probably not even true now) and not being the big investment you hoped it would be is comparable to being nearly 40 and still not owning a home at all. Why do you think he's in such a better position than you?

HerrKuehn

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

No, I'm not. I'm saying people who graduated in or around 2008 had the most brutal job market in decades. I too grew up in a poor family on an estate and was the first in my family to go to college - who cares about your sob story? What's your point? You're the one who thinks you had it hard because you graduated into the 'dot com crash', which as another poster correctly pointed out, was barely a ripple compared to what happened in 2008.

If you thought you had it tough, just as well you didn't graduate when I did. You would have had a meltdown. I didn't 'just complain', I worked the minimum wage jobs that were available, emigrated, retrained twice and kept going, but if you think graduating into that mess didn't have a huge impact on my career opportunities or you think what you experienced was anything like as bad, you're a bit deluded. You graduated during the bloody boom times!

I don't think I had it tough, my parents valued education so I had a huge advantage over the other kids. Having to be careful with money is a great education as well. I nearly think that was the best education I had. You are the one complaining about your situation. You can either be bitter about it or you can try and do something about it.

Chudwick Boseman

Millennials: why can't I own a house, I have an MA in intersectional feminism! It's sooo unfair!!

theteal

Chudwick Boseman wrote: »

Millennials: why can't I own a house, I have an MA in intersectional feminism! It's sooo unfair!!

The "joke" doesn't really land when just a handful of posts above, the poster mentions that their chosen discipline is the normally solid and potentially lucrative avenue of finance.

Chudwick Boseman

theteal wrote: »

The "joke" doesn't really land when just a handful of posts above, the poster mentions that their chosen discipline is the normally solid and potentially lucrative avenue of finance.

And? You telling me the boomers didn't experience recessions?

The J Stands for Jay

Former Former wrote: »

On the other hand, if you'd graduated a few years earlier (like I did), chances are you'd have bought a house on a 100% mortgage (like I did) and then watched as it plummeted in value while your salary was cut and your tax bill rocketed (like I did).

We all have our own sh*t to deal with, I don't think any generation is particularly worse off than another.

You're still both millennials though.

The J Stands for Jay

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

the value of your house dropping only matters if you want to sell it. you were happy to pay the price at the time. you still have a house.

id love to have a house to complain about depreciation.

Houses are essentially depreciating assets. Money is required for maintenance to keep them from deteriorating, but eventually this won't be enough.

Geuze

Wanderer78 wrote: »

please clarify this for me, are all those banks partially state owned, not 100%? thank you

We did own 100% of AIB, having re-capitalised and nationalised that bank.

EBS is part of AIB.

We sold 25% of AIB in an IPO:

https://aib.ie/content/dam/aib/investorrelations/docs/protected/AIB-ITF-Announcement-FINAL-30052017.pdf


PTSB is 99% State-owned

Geuze

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'm not just suggesting the possibility of changing the ownership of our banks, as I suspect it could be problematic and difficult, but possibly the creation of new banks altogether, this might be easier and less complicated, debatable of course, these do seem to work very well in other countries such as germany and the states.

I do understand your concerns, and you could be more right than me, as you understand this far better than me. we don't necessarily need to put this newly created money into things such as housing, it could be used for other critical public infrastructure needs, I. E. A public infrastructure bank etc, as you know yourself, it's critical a serious attempt must be made to pay back the loan, even to ourselves, as the system as a whole has limited buffering capacity for things such as defaults and none performing loans etc. If this is allowed to occur, it possibly could cause a collapse of the bank, and further contagion.

There is a public infrastructure bank at the European level, the EIB.

It lends to Irish local councils, for example, and also to third-level colleges.

Geuze

Chudwick Boseman wrote: »

Millennials: why can't I own a house, I have an MA in intersectional feminism! It's sooo unfair!!

Funny.

But I do have loads of empathy with people aged 20-35 now, it is so much harder to pay urban rents and save a deposit at the same time.

Residential rents in Dolphin's Barn exceed rents near the Champs Elysees!!!

lainey_d_123

HerrKuehn wrote: »

I don't think I had it tough, my parents valued education so I had a huge advantage over the other kids. Having to be careful with money is a great education as well. I nearly think that was the best education I had. You are the one complaining about your situation. You can either be bitter about it or you can try and do something about it.

So? This is just noise.

I'm not complaining about my situation, I'm stating that my generation had it bloody tough, and that I've done absolutely everything I can do improve things for myself, including retraining multiple times at my own expense, and making a career change into tech. Funny how you think you were disadvantaged by graduating when you did because of some mostly irrelevant dot com crash when in actual fact you graduated into a mostly booming economy, but I'm not allowed to state that graduating in 2008 had a big impact on my career.

You're the one who keeps coming back with irrelevant 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' rubbish like some kind of bot.

lainey_d_123

theteal wrote: »

The "joke" doesn't really land when just a handful of posts above, the poster mentions that their chosen discipline is the normally solid and potentially lucrative avenue of finance.

Yeah, funny how the Daily Mail reading idiots spout some variation of that 'you must have studied mEdIa sTudIes at some crap polytechnic!' line as if they're following some kind of script, then upon being corrected and informed that the person they are talking to actually made good choices and did a solid degree, they change tack and go 'well all generations had problems'.

It's really quite amazing.

HerrKuehn

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So? This is just noise.

I'm not complaining about my situation, I'm stating that my generation had it bloody tough, and that I've done absolutely everything I can do improve things for myself, including retraining multiple times at my own expense, and making a career change into tech. Funny how you think you were disadvantaged by graduating when you did because of some mostly irrelevant dot com crash when in actual fact you graduated into a mostly booming economy, but I'm not allowed to state that graduating in 2008 had a big impact on my career.

You're the one who keeps coming back with irrelevant 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' rubbish like some kind of bot.

Listen, I hope things work out for you and eventually you move on.

lainey_d_123

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Listen, I hope things work out for you and eventually you move on.

They have, and I am. I have never, ever given up despite endless serious health problems, bad luck with job markets and other setbacks. I have never stopped trying to move forward and do my best. I have never given up on my goal of owning a home. I have a full-time job and I often work a lot of the weekend as well on side projects to try to make and save as much as I possibly can.

You are just posting noise. Nothing of value. Just noise, to try to convince yourself that you experienced hardship by graduating at a bad time when, as has been pointed out to you, you graduated at a great time. I'm sure you have worked hard and I'm not downplaying your achievements in any way, but spouting these meaningless bootstraps platitudes helps nobody and contributes nothing. Maybe actually listen and believe those of us posting here who graduated into the financial crisis and have been struggling ever since. It's easy to do the whole 'just work hard' thing when you didn't graduate at a time where hundreds of graduates were queuing up to work at Centra. I would have loved to have been born a few years earlier - why not just be glad you missed the worst of it?

HerrKuehn

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

They have, and I am. I have never, ever given up despite endless serious health problems, bad luck with job markets and other setbacks. I have never stopped trying to move forward and do my best. I have never given up on my goal of owning a home. I have a full-time job and I often work a lot of the weekend as well on side projects to try to make and save as much as I possibly can.

You are just posting noise. Nothing of value. Just noise, to try to convince yourself that you experienced hardship by graduating at a bad time when, as has been pointed out to you, you graduated at a great time. I'm sure you have worked hard and I'm not downplaying your achievements in any way, but spouting these meaningless bootstraps platitudes helps nobody and contributes nothing. Maybe actually listen and believe those of us posting here who graduated into the financial crisis and have been struggling ever since. It's easy to do the whole 'just work hard' thing when you didn't graduate at a time where hundreds of graduates were queuing up to work at Centra. I would have loved to have been born a few years earlier - why not just be glad you missed the worst of it?

Ok, so I think my point is maybe misunderstood. You can focus on the disadvantages that you have had, graduating at a bad time, having to retrain etc. Or, you can focus on the advantages you have. So, if you are working in tech, you can probably work from home easily enough now? Maybe your industry is not going to be affected too badly by the covid situation? There will always be others who have it worse. No good comes from focusing on the negatives.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things and I sincerely hope you achieve your goals.

Former Former

McGaggs wrote: »

You're still both millennials though.

I was born in 1979 so I'm not a millennial.

I've never even had avocado toast!

Tony EH

This site really needs to sort out their re-reg troll problem.

lainey_d_123

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Ok, so I think my point is maybe misunderstood. You can focus on the disadvantages that you have had, graduating at a bad time, having to retrain etc. Or, you can focus on the advantages you have. So, if you are working in tech, you can probably work from home easily enough now? Maybe your industry is not going to be affected too badly by the covid situation? There will always be others who have it worse. No good comes from focusing on the negatives.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things and I sincerely hope you achieve your goals.

I still don't think you get it.

Yes, my job seems OK for now, and I am hugely grateful I've been able to work from home. I'm well aware that many people have it worse. I'm thankful every day that I'm not among the crowds standing at the bus stop opposite my flat, going to work inside a coronavirus petri dish and risking their health to do low paid, thankless jobs.

What I'm not doing is taking full credit for how amazing and brilliant I am for making the 'right' choice and saying that people who just qualified as pilots were stupid because they should have picked a better career choice. That's essentially what you're doing.

For the first time in my life, I seem to be having some good luck career-wise. Did I work very hard for this new career? Yes. Did the fella working in aviation make a bad choice? No. He was unlucky. He chose something which has been a lucrative option for decades and now suddenly the entire industry is in the toilet because of a pandemic. Trying to pretend that we all have full control over our lives is pointless.

SusieBlue

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Surely your choice of career is something that was within your control? I mean you could have chosen to go into an area that paid better.

This argument drives me insane. For society to work, some people must work in low paid jobs and careers, or we couldn’t function. It just simply isn’t possible for everyone to earn the big bucks.
Are these people not worthy of a fairly priced rental or the opportunity to purchase a property just because they don’t have high flying careers?

Where is the logic in telling someone on 25k they should have chosen better, and as punishment, they must spend €1800 per month of their already very modest income on renting an overpriced sh*thole that they’ll never own?

Fair housing at a fair price should be accessible to everyone in a modern functioning society, and is in everyone’s best interests.
I’m not saying that someone working as a waitress or barista should be entitled to the same kind of lifestyle as an accountant and solicitor, but they should still have access to reasonably priced accommodation.

It’s a sad state of affairs when those on the average wage can’t get a mortgage for the price of the average house, and they can barely afford the cost of the average rental.

The truth is that it was easier to get approved for mortgages in the past, especially for a low earner. I’m not denying that the interest costs were high but at least there was an opportunity to own your own home, for those on similar wages now this opportunity has been completely taken away.
Which might be ok if secure rentals for a fair price were available, but that isn’t an option either.

To me there is no logic in denying someone a mortgage that would cost €700 a month in repayments because ‘they can’t afford it’ and then sending them off to the private rental market where they can expect to pay upwards of €1600+ pm with no security of tenure.

PokeHerKing

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I still don't think you get it.

Yes, my job seems OK for now, and I am hugely grateful I've been able to work from home. I'm well aware that many people have it worse. I'm thankful every day that I'm not among the crowds standing at the bus stop opposite my flat, going to work inside a coronavirus petri dish and risking their health to do low paid, thankless jobs.

What I'm not doing is taking full credit for how amazing and brilliant I am for making the 'right' choice and saying that people who just qualified as pilots were stupid because they should have picked a better career choice. That's essentially what you're doing.

For the first time in my life, I seem to be having some good luck career-wise. Did I work very hard for this new career? Yes. Did the fella working in aviation make a bad choice? No. He was unlucky. He chose something which has been a lucrative option for decades and now suddenly the entire industry is in the toilet because of a pandemic. Trying to pretend that we all have full control over our lives is pointless.

I'd have to say that a 37yo pilot earning 109k who doesn't have their own house either made some poor choices or prioritised other areas of life. Simple as imo.

I have a fairly diverse crowd of people that I'm friendly with for varying reasons and none of them have these Charles dickensesque tales of misery.

The J Stands for Jay

Former Former wrote: »

I was born in 1979 so I'm not a millennial.

I've never even had avocado toast!

Sorry, I think you said you graduated in 2002 so I assumed you were born in 1981.

El Tarangu

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

No, I'm not. I'm saying people who graduated in or around 2008 had the most brutal job market in decades.

Two decades, to be precise. Guess who was entering the workforce then.

Former Former

PokeHerKing wrote: »

I'd have to say that a 37yo pilot earning 109k who doesn't have their own house either made some poor choices or prioritised other areas of life. Simple as imo.

I have a fairly diverse crowd of people that I'm friendly with for varying reasons and none of them have these Charles dickensesque tales of misery.

In fairness to that poster, I think he/she had retrained as a pilot having done something else initially so perhaps was not on that sort of wedge for long.

And unless things have changed, training as a pilot off your own steam is very expensive so would probably drain your savings.

arccosh

Former Former wrote: »

In fairness to that poster, I think he/she had retrained as a pilot having done something else initially so perhaps was not on that sort of wedge for long.

And unless things have changed, training as a pilot off your own steam is very expensive so would probably drain your savings.

looking at close to 100k for private licence alone.... that's not including the money you have to pay on a subsidised training scheme...


you could get banking financial backing with preferential loan rates, but that depended on getting accepted to schemes, medicals etc... (more from your own pocket)..



after that, I think you have to wait a few years before any big loans (i.e. a mortgage)


some Ryanair pilots were on 35-40k their first year (some companies less, some more, depending on where you trained)



to be on circa 100k, you're looking at a pilot who is taking every hour given to them, has paid all their loans for training, and has about 5 years experience minimum