Boomer Wealth

Hotblack Desiato

Your article fails at the first hurdle - most non-farming families in Ireland don't have large assets to pass on, at best the family home split several ways - or what is left of it after Fair Deal chomps at it.

Geuze

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Your article fails at the first hurdle - most non-farming families in Ireland don't have large assets to pass on, at best the family home split several ways - or what is left of it after Fair Deal chomps at it.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-hfcs/householdfinanceandconsumptionsurvey2018/

See table 5.2 for household wealth by age.


Age 65+

Median gross wealth = 258k, net = 256k
Mean gross wealth = 430k, net = 420k

Dwarf.Shortage

Edgware wrote: »

Ah **** em. Any of them with a brain are in college until they are 21/22. Then they decide to **** off around the world for a few years. When they do come back they will flute away until they decide to try and buy a property with no fûcking deposit or permanent job.
I was in London 2 days after my Leaving cert and ended up in Norwich for 3 years. I came across here after 7 years working across from Norfolk to Dorset on deliveries. I got a similar job here and just got on with life

You literally haven't a clue, it's nigh on impossible to buy a house now with a stellar permanent job and a big deposit. Congrats on emigrating to the UK, you're in rarefied air achieving that.

Hotblack Desiato

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-hfcs/householdfinanceandconsumptionsurvey2018/

See table 5.2 for household wealth by age.


Age 65+

Median gross wealth = 258k, net = 256k
Mean gross wealth = 430k, net = 420k

Proves my point. It's not riches unless an only child, and if it is the Revenue will take a chunk.

Hotblack Desiato

hotmail.com wrote: »

Boomer label doesn't apply to Ireland. We didn't have our baby boom til the 1960s and 70s.

We had a non-stop baby boom, it was only in the second half of the 1970s that we started to cotton on to contraception and the notion that using it might not be a trip to hell.

Hotblack Desiato

Yurt! wrote: »

the generation born around 1950-60 were blessed from a population pyramid and historical context. Blessed from the reality that in the post-war wasteland of Europe, everything needed to be rebuilt and the demoraphics perfectly suited runway economic growth.

Not in Ireland though. Plenty of opportunties, just not here. Some did well abroad, came back here and made a good life for themselves, some did well and never came back, some didn't do so well.

coinop

Can we please stop romaticising the 1940s and 1950s? Horrible, grim, depressing times to live in, especially in Ireland. Today's millennials begrudging the older generation's ability to buy a house on one income is downright disrespectful. Maybe if you sacrificed your biannual holiday trips to Lanzarote and New York, cooked at home instead of ordering Dominos pizza, and cut out your childish videogame addiction, then maybe you could afford to buy a home too. Today's youth have a massive sense of entitlement to a life of comfort. No WiFi for a couple of hours is considered an unbearable hardship (this is becoming increasingly evident too in the Direct Provision system where ungrateful (bogus?) asylum seekers turn their noses up at food they consider inferior to five star cuisine, but we'll leave that for another thread). Our grandmothers did not have washing machines and doing the laundry was a whole day affair. Modern household appliances such as the vacuum cleaner, dishwasher, microwave etc. have made life immeasurably more convenient for today's youth and they take it all for granted because they've never known a world without it. Grow up.

Yurt2

Washing machines, Lanzarote, WiFi and Direct Provision, oh my!

Wanderer78

s1ippy wrote:

Are you set to benefit from your parents wealth? Are you supporting them financially, like so many? Are you self-made or do you owe your success to your background?

Tis a complicated one, I have benefited from inheritance myself, and may again in the future, those who gave me this inheritance, worked incredibly hard for their belongings, and looked after me and my family extremely well throughout their lives, and this continued after they were gone, I would give it back, and more, just to see them again

eviltwin

I definitely benefited from being a young worker in the Celtic Tiger years. My 20 something daughter loves to remind me that her generation will not have the same ability to buy a home that I did which is true but we had our own crap to deal with.

Tldr: every generation has its advantages and disadvantages. No point thinking one group has it better.

Wanderer78

eviltwin wrote:

Tldr: every generation has its advantages and disadvantages. No point thinking one group has it better.

Completely agree, each generation has different types of sh1t to deal with, and are incomparable, but many younger generations are struggling to have some of their most critical of needs to be met, most notably housing and accommodation etc, but I believe they will force this to change, I also believe they have already begun this act of change, and best of luck to them, but they will need our support to be successful

Mad_maxx

Yurt! wrote: »

Thomas Sowell is skilled in American partisan political rhetoric and very little else. Certainly not hard-nosed economics that stands up to scrutiny. A sad case of an African American in the Academy made into a useful idiot. It paid his mortgage a few times over I guess.

You just stopped short of labelling him an "unce Tom "

The left really don't like African Americans who vote republican

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

The left really don't like African Americans who vote republican

I'm a proud lefty, and I don't believe in your statement, I was clearly missed during your survey of all lefties, so all is forgiven

Mad_maxx

the over sixty-five segment of the population are prioritised over every other age demographic to a horribly disproportionate degree

No pension cut during the financial crisis recession despite it being extraordinarily high

Medical cards for well off pensioner's

Reduced rate of taxation on income - savings

Even the current pandemic lockdown was largely speaking about protecting the strongest voter demographic

To hell with leaving cert students

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

No pension cut during the financial crisis recession despite it being extraordinarily high

The financial element of the financial crisis was largely based in the private sector, cuts in the public sector was never gonna work, as again, it was largely financially, a private sector issue, cuts in the public sector just exasperated the situation

Yurt2

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You just stopped short of labelling him an "unce Tom "

The left really don't like African Americans who vote republican

Did no such thing.

His economic conclusions undercooked and trite, and have been debunked up and down the Academy for many decades. The right absolutely love wheeling him out because he happens to be African American. He's cleverly made quite a career out of it.

Do you ever wonder why the Trump's of this world are desparate for minorities to come out and endorse their world view? I absolutely file him alongside useful idiots like that.

OwlsZat

The Noonan led strategy of increasing the cost of housing has created a strange inter generational inequality. People shudder at the thought of a SF Government but now that successive Givernments won't choose to end the malpractice a protest vote for next Government (which could even sooner than rather than later) seems more inevitable.

Wanderer78

OwlsZat wrote: »

The Noonan led strategy of increasing the cost of housing has created a strange inter generational inequality. People shudder at the thought of a SF Government but now that successive Givernments won't choose to end the malpractice a protest vote for next Governemnt (which could even sooner than rather than later seems more inevitable.

the issues that have caused our current housing calamity, were long at play before noonan stuck his beak in, he just happened to make it worse, so its very unfair to single him out, this could be well beyond our politicians to solve, who knows

Edgware

The 25 to 35 age bracket certainly have it difficult to purchase property. The reluctance of the older generation to downsize means that funds they could release to their children are being held back while often one elderly parent toddles around a large house complaing about the cost of heating. Smaller families now mean that when the parent dies the two or three children will get a cash injection. Even an average 3 bed in Dublin will be around the high 300 thousands. Inheritance figures allow up 360000 approx to be left to a child of the deceased tax free. That can be released earlier.
Greater availability of good quality retirement villages which offered services, social companionship etc should be developed where seniors could still have their freedom and own front door access. The present emphasis of putting Mammy into a nursing home and made sit down for the day listening to Fostrr and Allen hasnt proved to be a success particularly during Covid

Wanderer78

Edgware wrote: »

The 25 to 35 age bracket certainly have it difficult to purchase property. The reluctance of the older generation to downsize means that funds they could release to their children are being held back while often one elderly parent toddles around a large house complaing about the cost of heating. Smaller families now mean that when the parent dies the two or three children will get a cash injection. Even an average 3 bed in Dublin will be around the high 300 thousands. Inheritance figures allow up 360000 approx to be left to a child of the deceased tax free. That can be released earlier.
Greater availability of good quality retirement villages which offered services, social companionship etc should be developed where seniors could still have their freedom and own front door access. The present emphasis of putting Mammy into a nursing home and made sit down for the day listening to Fostrr and Allen hasnt proved to be a success particularly during Covid

maybe these older generations are 'suffering' with what some people could call emotional connectivity of their 'home', due to their life experiences of raising a family in the lump of materials we call houses!

OwlsZat

Edgware wrote: »

Greater availability of good quality retirement villages which offered services, social companionship etc should be developed where seniors could still have their freedom and own front door access. The present emphasis of putting Mammy into a nursing home and made sit down for the day listening to Fostrr and Allen hasnt proved to be a success particularly during Covid

Retirement villages? Come on we only build offices and student residences. David McWilliams is re-imagining them thought so have no fear. Perhaps they can turn some of the offices into Retirement villages.

OwlsZat

Wanderer78 wrote: »

maybe these older generations are 'suffering' with what some people could call emotional connectivity of their 'home', due to their life experiences of raising a family in the lump of materials we call houses!

That's generally the case until one of them dies or the romantic notion of the family home is no longer compatible with the scale of cleaning that needs to be done. I'm convinced the English landlord history has led the our elderly to want to exact some sort of retribution on our youth. In the same way an abused child is more likely to go on to abuse their own children.

Edgware

Wanderer78 wrote: »

maybe these older generations are 'suffering' with what some people could call emotional connectivity of their 'home', due to their life experiences of raising a family in the lump of materials we call houses!

Of course this applies to Council tenants as well. Mammy or Daddy living in a well established area in their 3 bed house while some family with 2 kids are taking up a room in the local Plaza hotel. If the senior citizen had the option of a retirement village/ one bed apartment in his/her locality things might be different

Wanderer78

OwlsZat wrote: »

That's generally the case until one of them dies or the romantic notion of the family home is no longer compatible with the scale of cleaning that needs to be done. I'm convinced the English landlord history has led the our elderly to want to exact some sort of retribution on our youth. In the same way an abused child is more likely to go on to abuse their own children.

...or maybe that widowed person needs their neighbors and community more than ever during this stage of life!

Edgware wrote: »

Of course this applies to Council tenants as well. Mammy or Daddy living in a well established area in their 3 bed house while some family with 2 kids are taking up a room in the local Plaza hotel. If the senior citizen had the option of a retirement village/ one bed apartment in his/her locality things might be different

ah right, prejudice as well, thats fair enough i guess

myshirt

What we really need to strive for in this country is equality of opportunity. Giving each young person a fair shake. You can't do that with the amount of people (and their kids) of this generation and this socioeconomic profile patting themselves on the back that where they are and what they have... that it was all them, it was all their effort, it was all their self efficacy.

Nope. I'm afraid it wasn't.

If economies worked that way then the only difference between you and a man in the back arse of Timbuktu is that he just wasn't working hard enough. He wasn't working smart enough. He's not a genius like you.

We're quite hung up on equality of outcome at the moment, seeking to equalise the latest thing that's hot. Whether it's gender balance, the "gender pay gap", or what have you.

And it's a distraction.

The real discussion needs to be on how direct government intervention benefited one class and one group above another, and saddled that generation with the debt. This is more than your standard one generation always thinks they had to worse or better. It's much more serious than that. It takes 1.5 to 1.75 incomes today to replicate what 1 income done in the past, and often that 1.5 to 1.75 incomes is in a higher skilled job. In the same period economies have grown astronomically. Where has the wealth went? Why are you putting your hand in your pocket and feeling nothing but your leg? Who is sweating who for what they are worth?

CAT thresholds need to drop, and CAT rates need to go up. Property taxes need to go up, both to raise revenue, and to also push housing stock to where it is the most productive in the economy. It helps no one (but John and Mary) to have them living in Dublin city.

Public Service pensions for the incumbents need to go. Immediately. Bring in crisis legislation if needed. It's that serious and that outrageous given how overpaid and over penisoned certain groupings in there are, often for piss poor performance. We've a huge pensions time bomb in this country. The numbers are astronomical and no one covers it meaningfully.

Wanderer78

myshirt wrote: »

What we really need to strive for in this country is equality of opportunity. Giving each young person a fair shake. You can't do that with the amount of people (and their kids) of this generation and this socioeconomic profile patting themselves on the back that where they are and what they have... that it was all them, it was all their effort, it was all their self efficacy.

Nope. I'm afraid it wasn't.

If economies worked that way then the only difference between you and a man in the back arse of Timbuktu is that he just wasn't working hard enough. He wasn't working smart enough. He's not a genius like you.

We're quite hung up on equality of outcome at the moment, seeking to equalise the latest thing that's hot. Whether it's gender balance, the "gender pay gap", or what have you.

And it's a distraction.

The real discussion needs to be on how direct government intervention benefited one class and one group above another, and saddled that generation with the debt. This is more than your standard one generation always thinks they had to worse or better. It's much more serious than that.

CAT thresholds need to drop, and CAT rates need to go up. Property taxes need to go up, both to raise revenue, and to also push housing stock to where it is the most productive in the economy. It helps no one (but John and Mary) to have them living in Dublin city.

Public Service pensions for the incumbents need to go. Immediately. Bring in crisis legislation if needed. It's that serious and that outrageous given how overpaid and over penisoned certain groupings in there are, often for piss poor performance. We've a huge pensions time bomb in this country. The numbers are astronomical and no one covers it meaningfully.

our inequality issues are far more complex than the activities within our public sectors and political institutions, but they do play a significant part, im sure bringing down the standards of the public sector and its workers will have a positive effect overall, including in the private sector!:rolleyes:

myshirt

Wanderer78 wrote: »

our inequality issues are far more complex than the activities within our public sectors and political institutions, but they do play a significant part, im sure bringing down the standards of the public sector and its workers will have a positive effect overall, including in the private sector!:rolleyes:

It's bringing the standards up is what we need to dl. Not down. It involves a lot of culture change, but I would say to you that it is all public sector and it a stems from the public sector and everything that goes with it.

Cut those pensions, cut that pay, fight those unions, and I'm telling you, a lot will fall with it. It's simmering amongst the youth and that's why they are all gone lefty. Take young nurses and guards for example, screwed over by their older colleagues. Or young unemployed people. Unemployed during their best years so older teachers could keep their jobs at excessive wage rates, when they should have been cut and young teachers employed.

Our education system was and is set up to churn out public servants, batch after batch. You also get a few University professors. People who can follow a process. Not people who can critically think.

It pervades the private sector until it's beat out of them. I hire in young kids and they don't know their arse from their elbow if you give them unstructured work. They even try googling it.

In school you are told no cogging, yet when you work you have to work with others. You are organised by date of production, like on a factory line. All the kids the same age in the one class. They ring bells. The teacher is the master, you are the student. You are not accountable for your learning.

All this feeds into the culture we have, especially around unions and around obeying your elders. There was a time in this country you weren't allowed have an opinion until you were 40, and it persists.

People who can write a procedure in how to fill out a form in 73 easy to follow steps, they are not needed, and young people need to rise up against these fxckers.

Cut those pensions and cut that pay without delay. Raise the CAT rates, and tax their properties and passive income.

Wanderer78

myshirt wrote: »

It's bringing the standards up is what we need to dl. Not down. It involves a lot of culture change, but I would say to you that it is all public sector and it a stems from the public sector and everything that goes with it.

Cut those pensions, cut that pay, fight those unions, and I'm telling you, a lot will fall with it. It's simmering amongst the youth and that's why they are all gone lefty. Take young nurses and guards for example, screwed over by their older colleagues. Or young unemployed people. Unemployed during their best years so older teachers could keep their jobs at excessive wage rates, when they should have been cut and young teachers employed.

Our education system was and is set up to churn out public servants, batch after batch. You also get a few University professors. People who can follow a process. Not people who can critically think.

It pervades the private sector until it's beat out of them. I hire in young kids and they don't know their arse from their elbow if you give them unstructured work. They even try googling it.

In school you are told no cogging, yet when you work you have to work with others. You are organised by date of production, like on a factory line. All the kids the same age in the one class. They ring bells. The teacher is the master, you are the student. You are not accountable for your learning.

All this feeds into the culture we have, especially around unions and around obeying your elders. There was a time in this country you weren't allowed have an opinion until you were 40, and it persists.

People who can write a procedure in how to fill out a form in 73 easy to follow steps, they are not needed, and young people need to rise up against these fxckers.

Cut those pensions and cut that pay without delay. Raise the CAT rates, and tax their properties and passive income.

you do realise, you re advocating what has been happening in primary the private sector since the escalation of free market capitalism, i.e. increasing worker insecurities in their entirety? this would more than likely cause a decline in working conditions in both public and private sectors!

CrankyHaus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you do realise, you re advocating what has been happening in primary the private sector since the escalation of free market capitalism, i.e. increasing worker insecurities in their entirety? this would more than likely cause a decline in working conditions in both public and private sectors!

Your answer inadvertently highlights the cultural problem with the public sector.
It should exist to provide services to taxpayers.
Instead it sees it's role as maintaining the privileged pay and conditions of those with the connections to get a job within it.

Wanderer78

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Your answer inadvertently highlights the cultural problem with the public sector.
It should exist to provide services to taxpayers.
Instead it sees it's role as maintaining the privileged pay and conditions of those with the connections to get a job within it.

my answer is a real concern, some seem to think, if we bring the public sector down to the same level as the private sector, we ll all some how rise together, or something!