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Boomer Wealth
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Save 20 years to buy your dream home I hope your being facetious. GTFO if all you have is trite rhetoric. The situation for young people is dire with respect to homeownership. The sooner we generate the public will to change things the better. They will wake up one day with SF in power plundering them from all angles wondering where it all went wrong.
In the very unlikely event that crowd of crack pots in SF ever do get into power they will change nothing as what they claim they will do is impossible. They will ruin the county though through cluelessness.
FG will be back at the top after the next election anyway.0 -
Save 20 years to buy your dream home I hope your being facetious. GTFO if all you have is trite rhetoric
Note what I actually said. 20 years if you rely entirely on your salary. The other poster doesn't want to buy and resell that property, in order to prepare for getting her dream home.The situation for young people is dire with respect to homeownership.
Not really. It comes down to two things. Are they expecting to get their final home the first time, and whether they're expecting to buy in an expensive area.
Many parts of Dublin are expensive. That's not going to change, and will likely become more expensive as time goes by. Same with Cork, or large population center.
If young people are looking to buy an affordable home within their means, there are options in the countryside, like the midlands, where there are affordable houses on offer. However, if they're looking to buy in Dublin, on low salaries and without real savings, then they're being unrealistic.The sooner we generate the public will to change things the better. They will wake up one day with SF in power plundering them from all angles wondering where it all went wrong.
The public will to change what though? I get the strong feeling you're wanting the state to step in to solve these problems, which will simply result in costs being thrown to the taxpayer... just because people don't want to live outside the city.
The truth is that the best change to Irish housing would be the construction of sky rise apartment blocks, similar to what can be found in Asia, because it would lower demand on residential housing areas. They'd still be expensive, but you'd see a clear difference happening, with single people buying nice apartments, and couples expecting a family, buying houses. Instead, we have single people wanting to buy houses, because there's few other options apart from renting one.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Because you've skipped my point completely. You're relying entirely on your salary as a way to buy a property. Your ability to gain a mortgage is limited by your credit rating, which won't increase much until banks recognise you as a reasonably safe bet... and the best way to do that, is to invest in a property for resale. Not only does it increase your credit rating, it will [hopefully] provide a profit which you can put towards your deposit, or towards paying off a chunk of the mortgage early..
You're priced out because you don't want to climb the ladder. You want your last home to be your first home. It's a nice dream but it's not realistic, and was never realistic, except for people with wealthy parents, or those lucky enough to land an early incredible job.
You will not be able to afford a decent home based entirely on your salary, unless you're willing to wait and seriously save for a long time. Which is possible. I know people who did just that... but I get the feeling that you're not prepared to wait the time needed for that to happen. (think waiting 20 years)
Significantly lower your expectations from a 300k or 200k property, which is apparently an average house?
for a single person relying entirely on her salary and savings? Good lord. You have to be joking.
Or you could do what I said earlier. Rent, save, invest, and work towards obtaining the funds needed to secure a mortgage. Not secure to buy the house outright. The funds needed to get the mortgage for thirty plus years.
Except I didn't. The problem is that you don't want to compromise.
This is about dealing with reality. You're single.. You have a single salary. That decreases your buying power (and also increases your risk to a bank, and your insurance will be higher in costs). If you were a couple, you would have two salaries.
It's not discrimination. It's basic economics.
Now you're just repeating yourself and not dealing with what I directed your way.
No, I’m priced out because the only properties available to me are dilapidated glorified sheds nearly 2 hours away from where I currently live, which isn’t a sustainable commute long term and would put me many years back in my plans to get a mortgage for a house that’s actually a commutable distance.
And you can say that I should just accept this if I want to own a home all you want, but that doesn’t mean it’s an acceptable standard of living or a lifestyle we as a society should be aspiring to.
I was talking about the average house in relation to the average salary, not in regards to my own salary or situation. I at no point said I should be entitled to such a house or that I expect one, it was more of a general commentary.
I know that the average priced home won’t ever be possible for me and I’m ok with that.
I am more than willing to compromise, I am compromising right now in my current living situation and I have accepted if I am ever lucky enough to get approved for a mortgage I will be moving a considerable distance away from where my family are.
What I actually said is that there’s is a serious problem when the people earning the average salary in my county can’t get approval for a mortgage for the average house, by about a significant margin.
There is something very wrong about that and I won’t change my mind on it.
I have rented for most of my 20’s, at one point spending over 1k of my monthly salary on my portion of our 2k rent, which was a tight squeeze but I managed.
I paid that for many years and yet I wouldn’t be approved for a mortgage for a house with a monthly repayment of half that. I am quite capable yet banks don’t care, it didn’t count towards a mortgage application and they just sent me back to the private rental market where I was paying off someone else’s mortgage.
I’m quite aware of how economics work, and obviously a couple are going to have increased buying power. Not disputing it, no issue with it.
That doesn’t negate from the fact that single people on lower incomes are still deserving and worthy of owning homes and secure rentals.
Economics also tells me it’s absolutely insane to expect people who can’t get approval for a €700pm mortgage to come up with €1800pm to pay a landlord.
The resounding attitude seems to continuously go back to ‘get a better job’ or ‘make a joint application’. And I don’t disagree that this makes sense. But there does need to be options for those who can’t get a better job and those who remain single.
And by options, I mean choices other than pay extortionate rent or move hours away from your job and family.
We can surely do better than that, and we should do better than that. Give it 30 years when all the long term renters start retiring and are trying to pay their four figure rent out of their pensions, and people will see how badly we fcucked up with this stupid system then.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »The truth is that the best change to Irish housing would be the construction of sky rise apartment blocks, similar to what can be found in Asia, because it would lower demand on residential housing areas. They'd still be expensive, but you'd see a clear difference happening, with single people buying nice apartments, and couples expecting a family, buying houses. Instead, we have single people wanting to buy houses, because there's few other options apart from renting one.
Agree with this. They don't even have to be skyrise either, they just have to be something that people can live in long-term.
In Ireland we have this idea that apartments are something you live in while you're younger and working towards a house, and as a result they are poky with no facilities and not a place to raise a family in.
Yet in many other parts of the world, raising a family in an apartment is completely standard, and apartments are built with that expectation, and are not shoeboxes in which you can't even swing a cat. They are often built in complexes with communal green areas and little playgrounds.
I just did a search of Daft for 3-bedroom apartments in Limerick and found 15 for sale. Just 15, in Ireland's 3rd biggest city, and 5 of those were designated student accomodation that could only be bought to let. Any family with 2 kids is forced to look for a house instead.
But it's not just a case of building them, it's also a case of changing the mentality about living in them long-term.0 -
After Wanderer78's post with the UK figures decided to see how Ireland measured up.
The average salary in Ireland is €39,000 (2018 CSO figure). Average house price is €250,766. 6.5 times average earnings (last 3 months 2018). A mortgage gives you 3.5 times earnings leaving you having to save 3 times your yearly income to afford a house. So on average salary of 40k that person needs to save 120k to buy a house! All while paying the 2nd most expensive rent in Europe!
Using averages here doesn't quite make sense. There 39k represents younger and older workers. Many older workers already have homes/mortgages, while their salary may be above average. Many younger workers (think early 20s) have lower salaries, but they are not in the home buying phase of life. It's only the first time buyer cohort who are really relevant surely?
Then there's the 'average buyer', which is probably a two income couple. In that scenario, a single income buyer is always going to struggle, on average.0 -
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No, I’m priced out because the only properties available to me are dilapidated glorified sheds nearly 2 hours away from where I currently live, which isn’t a sustainable commute long term and would put me many years back in my plans to get a mortgage for a house that’s actually a commutable distance.
2 hours isn't sustainable long term? That'll come as a surprise to many people working in London, who often do more than 2 hours each way, every day. In any case, I suspect you're exaggerating the time required, or simply aren't thinking about other methods of commuting.
And I don't get the logic of how it would put back your plans for a mortgage.And you can say that I should just accept this if I want to own a home all you want, but that doesn’t mean it’s an acceptable standard of living or a lifestyle we as a society should be aspiring to.
It is an acceptable standard of living if you want to live in the capital of a nation, which has a high cost of living, etc etc etc. Dublin is still one of the most expensive places to live in Europe, and yet, you seem to expect the way it was 20 or 30 years ago.I was talking about the average house in relation to the average salary, not in regards to my own salary or situation. I at no point said I should be entitled to such a house or that I expect one, it was more of a general commentary.
I know that the average priced home won’t ever be possible for me and I’m ok with that.
Well, in that case, of 300k for someone on a 32k salary. Yup. Impossible.
Your idea of average is vastly different from my idea of average. But then, I don't expect to live in the more expensive areas, or buy a house so far beyond my means.I am more than willing to compromise, I am compromising right now in my current living situation and I have accepted if I am ever lucky enough to get approved for a mortgage I will be moving a considerable distance away from where my family are.
What I actually said is that there’s is a serious problem when the people earning the average salary in my county can’t get approval for a mortgage for the average house, by about a significant margin.
There is something very wrong about that and I won’t change my mind on it.
Fine. Don't change your mind. Life is so unfair. Yup. Run with that.The resounding attitude seems to continuously go back to ‘get a better job’ or ‘make a joint application’. And I don’t disagree that this makes sense. But there does need to be options for those who can’t get a better job and those who remain single.
Well, here's the thing. You can get a better job. Upskill. Diversify your skills, and network. Get out of your comfort zone. Use that ambition to buy a wonderful house as motivation to work 50 hours as a manager, or some position that awards wonderful commissions.
And I wouldn't recommend a joint application because you want ownership to be completely clear... but then, I'm single, and don't have to worry about that.And by options, I mean choices other than pay extortionate rent or move hours away from your job and family.
We can surely do better than that, and we should do better than that. Give it 30 years when all the long term renters start retiring and are trying to pay their four figure rent out of their pensions, and people will see how badly we fcucked up with this stupid system then.
Irish people need to give up this love affair with houses. It's really that simple. Our population is rising, costs are increasing, along with the burden for taxpayers. The belief that having a city that is primarily populated by housing estates is incredibly impractical.
As for the future... nah. I'm hoping people get over this belief that commuting for an hour or two is difficult. It's not. I live in a city of 9 million people, and I do commute two hours every morning/evening. My girlfriend lives/works in the south of the city, and I work in the North. Subway, and two bus journeys. Ireland just needs better transportation links... but that won't come either while houses rule the cities.0 -
But it's not just a case of building them, it's also a case of changing the mentality about living in them long-term.
The problem is that the Irish/UK are stuck on the idea of apartments being like they were in the past. Badly managed, ugly blocks, with squalid little rooms.
I live in an apartment block with 26 floors, each floor having two apartments. My apartment is comparable with the space for a traditional bungalow style house. Bay windows, heated floors, etc. Private garage. Private security on the grounds, and there's shops within the block area, along with a visiting doctor/dentist. [I live most of the time in Xi'an, PRC]
Irish people need to stop thinking of the past, or the crappy badly built apartments in Spain, and understand that apartments around the world, can be pretty damn awesome. TBH once I sell my house in Ireland, I'll be looking for an apartment to buy instead. They're just so damn convenient when properly managed.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »2 hours isn't sustainable long term? That'll come as a surprise to many people working in London, who often do more than 2 hours each way, every day. In any case, I suspect you're exaggerating the time required, or simply aren't thinking about other methods of commuting.
And I don't get the logic of how it would put back your plans for a mortgage.
It is an acceptable standard of living if you want to live in the capital of a nation, which has a high cost of living, etc etc etc. Dublin is still one of the most expensive places to live in Europe, and yet, you seem to expect the way it was 20 or 30 years ago.
Well, in that case, of 300k for someone on a 32k salary. Yup. Impossible.
Your idea of average is vastly different from my idea of average. But then, I don't expect to live in the more expensive areas, or buy a house so far beyond my means.
Fine. Don't change your mind. Life is so unfair. Yup. Run with that.
Well, here's the thing. You can get a better job. Upskill. Diversify your skills, and network. Get out of your comfort zone. Use that ambition to buy a wonderful house as motivation to work 50 hours as a manager, or some position that awards wonderful commissions.
And I wouldn't recommend a joint application because you want ownership to be completely clear... but then, I'm single, and don't have to worry about that.
Irish people need to give up this love affair with houses. It's really that simple. Our population is rising, costs are increasing, along with the burden for taxpayers. The belief that having a city that is primarily populated by housing estates is incredibly impractical.
As for the future... nah. I'm hoping people get over this belief that commuting for an hour or two is difficult. It's not. I live in a city of 9 million people, and I do commute two hours every morning/evening. My girlfriend lives/works in the south of the city, and I work in the North. Subway, and two bus journeys. Ireland just needs better transportation links... but that won't come either while houses rule the cities.
No it’s not sustainable long term, studies have shown that a long commute can have detrimental effects on mental and physical health. It can make for a poor work life balance. If others choose to do that of their own accord then that’s their own business, but I’m not signing up for it.
Of course it would slow down my plans, and it’s also a huge financial risk.
What if I don’t sell it for profit, what if it sells at a loss? What if I can’t sell it at all? What if it all goes wrong and I can’t come up with the 20% deposit needed to buy the next property?
Do you not think it’s a bit reckless to be advising a person on a low income to take a huge gamble like that, when it’s very likely they’d never financially recover if it all went tits up? Particularly with the current borrowing rules in place?
I don’t live in Dublin, nor do I ever want to live in Dublin. I live in another city with much poorer public transport, no DART or Luas and a very limited rural bus service. In some areas it’s non existent.
That’s why everyone here drives and why a commute would take me at least 2 hours each way on a good day.
And it’s not my idea of average either, google the average salary and then google the cost of the average house. Those are the statistics I’m referring to, not my own notions and ideas.
The reality is that the system is broken and it doesn’t work.
It excludes the many and caters to the few.
People will want to live within reasonable distance of areas where there is access to gainful employment. It’s being made out like this is a lot to ask for, or that beggars are being choosers, but that isn’t the case.
I don’t disagree that a complete overhaul of the public transport system would improve the situation but that’s just another example of how broken the system is overall. None of it is working.
I don’t believe that this is the best the government can do for us, I just think the issue has grown and grown into such a massive problem that they don’t even know where to start with it.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »2 hours isn't sustainable long term? That'll come as a surprise to many people working in London, who often do more than 2 hours each way, every day. In any case, ...
You can do it. You can do it for years. But its takes a toll.0 -
3.5 times my income, which I believe to be only slightly lower than the median, is still a lot less than 150k. It’s significantly less than 230k.
To be entitled to a mortgage for either of those houses I’d have to be earning 42k/65k respectively, which is a lot more than average.
The idea that there should be options for all incomes is total nonsense. Rent is for low incomes (granted something badly needs to be done to increase supply of apartments and reduce rents) and ownership is for high incomes. The harsh reality is that if 3.5x your income doesn’t even add up to €150k you have no business buying a major asset like a house.
People seem to think that they can tip along in low level jobs like administration, retail, childminding etc. making €30-35k per year with no commitment to increasing their income and still be able to buy a house.
My advice (and I am mid 30’s BTW) is forget about “fair”, forget about the fact that people could buy an amazing house in Dublin for half nothing 30 years ago. That ship has sailed. This notion of “why should I have to earn more” or “why should I have to be in a couple to afford a house” is just nonsense. Of course its not fair, but its reality. Higher incomes will always have the advantage. 2 incomes will always be better than 1. Get over it.
All this talk of an “average“ salary is also total shyte. Ok, it’s difficult and time consuming to get a job in the €100k+ range. But anyone with a bit of drive and determination should be able to get to €60-65k with bonus and benefits by mid to late 30’s. Of course everyone wants the desired outcome (house) without all the grind it takes to increase their income.0 -
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If its so expensive here, and unsustainable here. Why not move somewhere else, like another country.0
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The idea that there should be options for all incomes is total nonsense. Rent is for low incomes (granted something badly needs to be done to increase supply of apartments and reduce rents) and ownership is for high incomes. The harsh reality is that if 3.5x your income doesn’t even add up to €150k you have no business buying a major asset like a house.
People seem to think that they can tip along in low level jobs like administration, retail, childminding etc. making €30-35k per year with no commitment to increasing their income and still be able to buy a house.
My advice (and I am mid 30’s BTW) is forget about “fair”, forget about the fact that people could buy an amazing house in Dublin for half nothing 30 years ago. That ship has sailed. This notion of “why should I have to earn more” or “why should I have to be in a couple to afford a house” is just nonsense. Of course its not fair, but its reality. Higher incomes will always have the advantage. 2 incomes will always be better than 1. Get over it.
All this talk of an “average“ salary is also total shyte. Ok, it’s difficult and time consuming to get a job in the €100k+ range. But anyone with a bit of drive and determination should be able to get to €60-65k with bonus and benefits by mid to late 30’s. Of course everyone wants the desired outcome (house) without all the grind it takes to get to increase their income.
How on earth is it nonsense? How do you think it’s acceptable that a large portion of society are completely excluded from home ownership and are stuck paying monumental rising rent costs indefinitely?
Society needs people of all incomes, skills and abilities to tick over. These people are just as deserving of accessing reasonably priced accommodation as high earners. It’s very classist to suggest otherwise, and it’s also denying reality. Because the reality is that these people exist. So what of them?
They’re just resigned to a sh*t cycle of paying extortionate rent to a landlord?
We wouldn’t even be having this conversation if secure long term tenancies were available for a fair price but that option isn’t there either. That’s what the issue is, there are very few options and it should be fairer.
Excluding them would be fine if we gave them another sustainable option, but we don’t do that either.
Instead we just shrug our shoulders and tell low earners they should have made better choices, as if every single person is capable of earning 70k a year if they choose to.
Its a complete cop out.0 -
How on earth is it nonsense? How do you think it’s acceptable that a large portion of society are completely excluded from home ownership and are stuck paying monumental rising rent costs indefinitely?
Society needs people of all incomes, skills and abilities to tick over. These people are just as deserving of accessing reasonably priced accommodation as high earners. It’s very classist to suggest otherwise, and it’s also denying reality. Because the reality is that these people exist. So what of them?
They’re just resigned to a sh*t cycle of paying extortionate rent to a landlord?
We wouldn’t even be having this conversation if secure long term tenancies were available for a fair price but that option isn’t there either. That’s what the issue is, there are very few options and it should be fairer.
Excluding them would be fine if we gave them another sustainable option, but we don’t do that either.
Instead we just shrug our shoulders and tell low earners they should have made better choices, as if every single person is capable of earning 70k a year if they choose to.
Its a complete cop out.
I completely agree with you that there should be affordable and secure rental arrangements available to all workers - ideally linked to your salary like they do in some European countries. The fact that people have to pay crazy rents of 1500+ per month in Ireland is a huge failing of successive governments and I don’t hold out much hope of things changing in the short - medium term.
That being said, I don’t think it’s classist to suggest that only high earners should own homes. If someone on 30k per year could rent a decent apartment for €350 per month there would be no issue. But the idea that a low earner has some divine right to own a house is not correct. Everyone has a right to a home, to have a roof over their head - but that doesn’t mean that they should be able to buy major assets on low incomes.
Its also not a cop out to tell people on low incomes to make better choices. Its a cop out to be happy with the workload that comes with a low paying job while also expecting the benefits of a high paying job.0 -
I completely agree with you that there should be affordable and secure rental arrangements available to all workers - ideally linked to your salary like they do in some European countries. The fact that people have to pay crazy rents of 1500+ per month in Ireland is a huge failing of successive governments and I don’t hold out much hope of things changing in the short - medium term.
That being said, I don’t think it’s classist to suggest that only high earners should own homes. If someone on 30k per year could rent a decent apartment for €350 per month there would be no issue. But the idea that a low earner has some divine right to own a house is not correct. Everyone has a right to a home, to have a roof over their head - but that doesn’t mean that they should be able to buy major assets on low incomes.
Its also not a cop out to tell people on low incomes to make better choices. Its a cop out to be happy with the workload that comes with a low paying job while also expecting the benefits of a high paying job.
The notion that housing is an asset class is a very recent phenomenon, and is one that has been encouraged and stoked over the last two and a half decades by the financial sector and to a large extent the poltical class as it made people feel artificially wealthy. Even characterising housing as a 'major asset' displays the color by which some people view things. It was always a modest thing to expect to buy for the vast majority of the population irrespective of income level.
Even the Tories in the UK realise the jig is up with the buy-to-let housing boom over the last couple of decades and how deeply destabilising it is.
Your suggestion that people should be able to rent for more modest sums per month would even draw extremely hostile posters on you if you started sketching out how one would make that happen.
The dye is cast and housing has become socially and politically toxic. As I said, we're reaching a point where a reckoning day is coming on this issue, and I'd ask posters not to get surprised when the day arrives.
(And on your last point, I think you'd be surprised how hard a lot of lower income people work for declining returns on housing and people further up the ladder essentially giving them the middle finger talking about fuzzy choices).0 -
Deleted User wrote: »2 hours isn't sustainable long term? That'll come as a surprise to many people working in London, who often do more than 2 hours each way, every day. In any case, I suspect you're exaggerating the time required, or simply aren't thinking about other methods of commuting.
And I don't get the logic of how it would put back your plans for a mortgage.
This is horse sh1t. I live in London and I have never met anyone who does that commute every day. I've met people who only do a day a week in the office, and commute down from Sheffield or wherever they live, but not everyone can do that, can they? It doesn't work for teachers or nurses or any number of the professions most likely to be average or low earners in the first place.It is an acceptable standard of living if you want to live in the capital of a nation, which has a high cost of living, etc etc etc. Dublin is still one of the most expensive places to live in Europe, and yet, you seem to expect the way it was 20 or 30 years ago.
No, it isn't. We have a case of an average earner who doesn't even want the average home. She's already accepted she can't do that. She's looking for something below that and she's willing to compromise to get it, but a 'reasonable compromise' would be maybe buying a very small flat in a less desirable and/or further out suburb, not moving across the bleeding country to have a 4-hour round trip of a commute.Well, in that case, of 300k for someone on a 32k salary. Yup. Impossible.
Your idea of average is vastly different from my idea of average. But then, I don't expect to live in the more expensive areas, or buy a house so far beyond my means.
You're going on as if she wants to buy a mansion in Dalkey. She simply wants a modest home within reasonable commuting distance of her job.Fine. Don't change your mind. Life is so unfair. Yup. Run with that.
Your ideas are not doable. They're so beyond what would ever be considered reasonable that it's almost comical. You might as well tell her to buy a house in Bulgaria and fly over every day for work - sure it's only a few hours.Well, here's the thing. You can get a better job. Upskill. Diversify your skills, and network. Get out of your comfort zone. Use that ambition to buy a wonderful house as motivation to work 50 hours as a manager, or some position that awards wonderful commissions.
You're completely missing the point. She's not talking just about herself as an individual. She's talking about society as a whole. She's absolutely right that there's a problem when someone on an average salary can't buy a below average house because they won't get mortgage approval, when they're paying out far more than that in rent.
The 'get a better job' argument is ridiculous because there are always going to be people who earn average or below average money. What are those people supposed to do? Cities need teachers, nurses, street cleaners and many other professions which don't pay very well. You don't think these people deserve a modest, secure roof over their heads?And I wouldn't recommend a joint application because you want ownership to be completely clear... but then, I'm single, and don't have to worry about that.
But then it's almost impossible to get mortgage approval.Irish people need to give up this love affair with houses. It's really that simple. Our population is rising, costs are increasing, along with the burden for taxpayers. The belief that having a city that is primarily populated by housing estates is incredibly impractical.
I don't think there is a love affair with houses. The problem is that there aren't enough flats and those that exist are substandard shoeboxes with no storage space. We have so much capacity for building new homes in Ireland and yet it isn't being done.As for the future... nah. I'm hoping people get over this belief that commuting for an hour or two is difficult. It's not. I live in a city of 9 million people, and I do commute two hours every morning/evening. My girlfriend lives/works in the south of the city, and I work in the North. Subway, and two bus journeys. Ireland just needs better transportation links... but that won't come either while houses rule the cities.
Well, I don't believe that is a reasonable commute. It would destroy most people's mental and physical health, it's terrible for the environment if you do it by car and it's just not sustainable.0 -
I don’t live in Dublin, nor do I ever want to live in Dublin. I live in another city with much poorer public transport, no DART or Luas and a very limited rural bus service. In some areas it’s non existent.
That’s why everyone here drives and why a commute would take me at least 2 hours each way on a good day.
I think you mentioned before that it’s cork city, I’m very familiar with cork and I’m sorry I don’t know where you are talking about commuting from thats 2 hours each way. You would commute from parts of co. Clare to cork in 2 hours or at the very least further than limerick.
I know people living well outside the city in places like clon and it’s only around an hours commute each way and realistically why would you even need to go that far there is plenty of places in between.
Also you can get decent places (apartments) in cork city for under 200k and there is lots of options in the suburbs from around 180 to 250kish range.
Aside from Dublin which I wouldn’t dream of living or working in there is nowhere in Ireland that your family could be living that you couldn’t get a house/apartment for at the absolute most 200k that was in a decent area within 20 mins or so if your home area.
I really don’t want to come across like I’m saying it’s easy to buy or get a mortgage but I do think people also exaggerate the difficulty of finding places, how far they would live away etc and I fully fully appreciate wanting to live close to family, I am building* next door to home and it’s something I have always wanted to do but im willing to have a commute of about 40 mins each way (current job) or anything up to a bit over an hour each way would be acceptable if it came to it. 2 hours each way is certainly not sustainable (if it’s every day of the week, Ok if it’s a mix of wfh and office) that I fully agree with you on.
*just to say that building isn’t cheap, far from it. So it’s not a cheap option or doesn’t mean we won’t need a big mortgage and a deposit but you get a lot more for your money.0 -
Leilani Fast Windbreak wrote: »I think you mentioned before that it’s cork city, I’m very familiar with cork and I’m sorry I don’t know where you are talking about commuting from thats 2 hours each way. You would commute from parts of co. Clare to cork in 2 hours.
I know people living well outside the city in places like clon and it’s only around an hours commute each way and realistically why would you even need to go that far there is plenty of places in between.
Also you can get decent places (apartments) in cork city for under 200k and there is lots of options in the suburbs from around 180 to 250kish range.
Aside from Dublin which I wouldn’t dream of living or working in there is nowhere in Ireland that your family could be living that you couldn’t get a house/apartment for at the absolute most 200k that was in a decent area within 20 mins or so if your home area.
I really don’t want to come across like I’m saying it’s easy to buy or get a mortgage but I do think people also exaggerate the difficulty of finding places, how far they would live away etc and I fully fully appreciate wanting to live close to family, I am building next door to home and it’s something I have always wanted to do but im willing to have a commute of about 40 mins each way (current job) or anything up to a bit over an hour each way would be acceptable if it came to it.
Ding! ding! ding! We have it, the chape site from the relatives. I knew something was up.
Look, I don't begrudge you your sweetheart site for your one-off in the slightest, but your situation is not everyone's situation, and patronising them when you don't have to go to the well like they do to secure their future just isn't helpful.0 -
Ding! ding! ding! We have it, the chape site from the relatives. I knew something was up.
Look, I don't begrudge you your sweetheart site for your one-off in the slightest, but your situation is not everyone's situation, and patronising them when you don't have to go to the well like they do to secure their future just isn't helpful.
It's always the way, isn't it?
Person who has the privilege of being able to stay at home for years within commuting distance of a good job, paying nothing towards rent or food for any of that time and then building on cheap or free family land lecturing other people on what they should do to afford a house. :pac:0 -
I completely agree with you that there should be affordable and secure rental arrangements available to all workers - ideally linked to your salary like they do in some European countries. The fact that people have to pay crazy rents of 1500+ per month in Ireland is a huge failing of successive governments and I don’t hold out much hope of things changing in the short - medium term.
That being said, I don’t think it’s classist to suggest that only high earners should own homes. If someone on 30k per year could rent a decent apartment for €350 per month there would be no issue. But the idea that a low earner has some divine right to own a house is not correct. Everyone has a right to a home, to have a roof over their head - but that doesn’t mean that they should be able to buy major assets on low incomes.
Its also not a cop out to tell people on low incomes to make better choices. Its a cop out to be happy with the workload that comes with a low paying job while also expecting the benefits of a high paying job.
The hardest working people in the world are not the richest. The notion that low income equals low workload is comically false.
I always find myself flip flopping between which side I'm on in these arguments, people's attitudes always seem to be one extreme or the other. The answer as usual is somewhere in the middle imo.
The system has always been "broken", there's advantages and disadvantages in life, always has been always will be.
If you're single yes it's harder to buy now than it was 40 years ago, tough. Get over it or get hitched.
Dublin is a major European city now and there's investors in the market, tough. Get over it. You can move to cheaper cities now in a way you couldn't do 40 years ago.
If you weren't born into absolute squalor or or with severe handicaps than consider yourself absolutely blessed and make the most of your situation. Life owes you nothing more really.0 -
Hope the shoulder shruggers and the 'tough sh*t' crew are prepared for the spectre of hundreds of thousands (who knows how many really) of pensioners living in functional poverty in the not so distant future. Maybe most of them will be pushing up daisies by then so they've shut down the part of their brain that knows this is coming our way. Because on the current track, that's really where we're heading.0
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Hope the shoulder shruggers and the 'tough sh*t' crew are prepared for the spectre of hundreds of thousands (who knows how many really) of pensioners living in functional poverty in the not so distant future. Maybe most of them will be pushing up daisies by then so they've shut down the part of their brain that knows this is coming our way. Because on the current track, that's really where we're heading.
Home ownership rates are at very similar rates now that they were in the 80s. The highest in EU. Your doomsday thoughts are the tip of your nose and nothing more.0 -
PokeHerKing wrote: »The hardest working people in the world are not the richest. The notion that low income equals low workload is comically false.
I always find myself flip flopping between which side I'm on in these arguments, people's attitudes always seem to be one extreme or the other. The answer as usual is somewhere in the middle imo.
The system has always been "broken", there's advantages and disadvantages in life, always has been always will be.
If you're single yes it's harder to buy now than it was 40 years ago, tough. Get over it or get hitched.
Dublin is a major European city now and there's investors in the market, tough. Get over it. You can move to cheaper cities now in a way you couldn't do 40 years ago.
If you weren't born into absolute squalor or or with severe handicaps than consider yourself absolutely blessed and make the most of your situation. Life owes you nothing more really.
This is silly. People should not be forced into relationships they don't want just so they can have a roof over their head! This kind of situation just helps abuse thrive because people feel they can't leave.
Plenty of European cities have lots of affordable accommodation for single people. Go to Paris, or Brussels and you'll find loads of studio flats and small one-beds at prices single professionals can comfortably afford, and you can rent them for a number of years on a secure tenancy and even do stuff like paint the walls and make it your own home. It's considered completely normal to live alone if you don't have a partner. 30-somethings in Brussels aren't forced to live in houseshares like students.
Why can this not also happen in Ireland? Why can't they build purpose-built blocks of studios and one-beds so that adults can actually live like adults and have their own space? Even stuff like the Abito apartments in Manchester https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/52955669?search_identifier=9726fe7359804d454113c9940d525faa would be better than house sharing or renting some badly converted shoddy studio with no soundproofing.0 -
PokeHerKing wrote: »Home ownership rates are at very similar rates now that they were in the 80s. The highest in EU. Your doomsday thoughts are the tip of your nose and nothing more.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ireland-has-lowest-rate-of-home-ownership-in-almost-50-years-dail-told-38278560.html
Lowest home ownership rates in 50 years (since '71)
The prospect of hundreds of thousands of pensioners in poverty, even if ownership rates don't decline further, is a real one.
We are now below the EU average for ownership and heading south, with few of the mechanisms for secure tenancy and affordability of the much vaunted 'rental culture' of the continent.
This will probably prompt another shoulder shrug but those on the sharp end of this know what's coming.0 -
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ireland-has-lowest-rate-of-home-ownership-in-almost-50-years-dail-told-38278560.html
Lowest home ownership rates in 50 years (since '71)
The prospect of hundreds of thousands of pensioners in poverty, even if ownership rates don't decline further, is a real one.
A couple of percent drop with a once in 100 year recession in the mix, no indication that they won't recover and completely flatten or even increase.
Even with the sensationalist headline it's still a far cry from your mad max predictions.0 -
PokeHerKing wrote: »A couple of percent drop with a once in 100 year recession in the mix, no indication that they won't recover and completely flatten or even increase.
Even with the sensationalist headline it's still a far cry from your mad max predictions.
Ownership peaked at 80 percent. That's not a couple of percent drop.0 -
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Ding! ding! ding! We have it, the chape site from the relatives. I knew something was up.
.
Not sure the relevance your dig here? The site is obviously free but it’s value is only a fraction of the build costs of the house so even if I had to buy it at market rate for the area it would add about a few % to the build cost. Per acre farm land without planning does not cost very much.
A lot of my free time since I was a child is spent working on the farm for free so it’s not like something for nothing. There will also be a large sacrifice of free time in the coming two years as we will be managing the build, organising everything and a lot of evenings on site doing things ourselves too. I can guarantee you plenty wouldn’t be up for that.0 -
PokeHerKing wrote: »In the 90s, not the 70s. Either way peaks and troughs etc. On a flatline over 50 years we're pretty static.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/tr/
Fig. 3.2
Trend is most definitively not static and is heading downward.0 -
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/tr/
Fig. 3.2
Trend is most definitively not static and is heading downward.
It literally states, back to level's last seen in 1971. So 50 years = static imo. As they say lies, damned lies, and statistics. Maybe I just have a sunnier disposition than you.0 -
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lainey_d_123 wrote: »This is silly. People should not be forced into relationships they don't want just so they can have a roof over their head! This kind of situation just helps abuse thrive because people feel they can't leave.
Plenty of European cities have lots of affordable accommodation for single people. Go to Paris, or Brussels and you'll find loads of studio flats and small one-beds at prices single professionals can comfortably afford, and you can rent them for a number of years on a secure tenancy and even do stuff like paint the walls and make it your own home. It's considered completely normal to live alone if you don't have a partner. 30-somethings in Brussels aren't forced to live in houseshares like students.
Why can this not also happen in Ireland? Why can't they build purpose-built blocks of studios and one-beds so that adults can actually live like adults and have their own space? Even stuff like the Abito apartments in Manchester https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/52955669?search_identifier=9726fe7359804d454113c9940d525faa would be better than house sharing or renting some badly converted shoddy studio with no soundproofing.
People are not being forced into relationships. You really do have a love of the extremes. It's harder for a single person to buy because their single salary is usually up against x2 salaries.
I know single people who live alone, in house shares and none of them have felt the need to shack up with an abuser instead.
There's plenty of options out there, move to Paris/Brussels if you feel your hard earned dollar would work better for you. The extremes you so often spew is just rhetoric, it's not reality for the overwhelming majority of Irish people.0
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