Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Boomer Wealth
Options
Comments
-
Other countries do long term and even life time leases with the tenants rent being proportional to their income. It negates the need for a mortgage too.
That’s my idea of fair.
How do other countries (with much denser populations too) manage to have such systems in place but the best we can come up with is having low earners spend over half their income on rentals with no security. Surely we can do better than that.
Surely we should want to do better than that?
I've already brought up this point, and was told 'why don't you leave then?'
Yes, that's the solution. A normal, hardworking person should have to emigrate and leave all their friends and family behind if they want to buy a tiny little flat rather than pay out half their income in rent for their entire life for substandard properties with no security of tenure.
What a country.0 -
Not to mention buy to let landlords pricing out ftbsWanderer78 wrote: »seriously lads, we have to stop with this bollcoks! these are not laws, similar to the laws of science, there is no market equilibrium! one of the main reasons for the rising price of housing, is due to the increasing availability of credit, i.e. more credit = higher prices, its got literally fcuk all to do with supply0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »I've already brought up this point, and was told 'why don't you leave then?'
Yes, that's the solution. A normal, hardworking person should have to emigrate and leave all their friends and family behind if they want to buy a tiny little flat rather than pay out half their income in rent for their entire life for substandard properties with no security of tenure.
What a country.
not just in our own country, but a rising problem globally0 -
-
Deleted User wrote: »As for how I've approached this thread, I've suggested that people do what it takes to earn the money needed for a deposit, acquire a mortgage, and improve their credit rating... as opposed to expecting others to provide for them, or simply complaining about it. I made one comment to "man the **** up" in response to your own post, and yet, you've decided to judge all my posts based on that one comment. So... yeah, your respect isn't such a terrible loss to me.
I bought young, during the recession, to live in a home. I had already moved abroad as a result of the recession and was lucky to have a job at the time. I did consider it a luxury, but a justifiable one because I'd saved every penny I could since I started my first part time job as a teenager, and I needed to put roots down where I was. I flipped that when my family grew so was able to buy something slightly bigger but that needed some work, which I put some of my "profit" (savings really, having spent the guts of 10 years paying a mortgage) towards. I can't consider either purchase an investment, because I need somewhere to live- is not worth anything to anyone else in the meantime so it doesn't matter what the market value is right now. All of this was a combination of good timing, compromise, luck and hard work- all four, in equal measure. By the time I bought my second home, I would not have been able to afford to rent privately, there aren't many private rentals anyway, and I earn too much to qualify for social housing.
I was nearly convinced when I was living in Ireland to buy a one or two bedroom hovel in a horrible part of the city I'm from- everyone was doing the same, credit was easy and cheap and it was hard not to get carried away. I got sense though, thankfully, because I would be in massive trouble now and it's certain I wouldn't have my beautiful family if that's the route I had followed. You might have had the acumen to do a bit of work on the first property you had in order to turn a profit, but your second purchase was a mistake that you've admitted you're still paying for now. If that's the sum total of what you've got from "doing what it takes" then you mustn't be trying hard enough, right?0 -
Advertisement
-
Other countries do long term and even life time leases with the tenants rent being proportional to their income. It negates the need for a mortgage too.
That’s my idea of fair.
How do other countries (with much denser populations too) manage to have such systems in place but the best we can come up with is having low earners spend over half their income on rentals with no security. Surely we can do better than that.
Surely we should want to do better than that?
Who is providing these properties? Are you talking about social housing here?
I have a feeling that certain posters on here wouldnt take too kindly to social housing...
Which countries are you referring to? I can show you how poorer people live in the more densely populated parts of the world, but I dont thikn you are going to like it.0 -
You advised me to go into the market of renovating run down rural properties and selling them at profit in order to make the extra money needed to be able to get a mortgage, and that I need to compromise and suck it up.
Where did I tell you to suck it up? But yes, I did recommend the investing in lower properties, and reselling them to make up the difference between your savings from a salary and the overall cost... since you repeatedly made the point that you couldn't afford what you wanted based on your salary... however, you went at great lengths to describe how unfair it was that you couldn't afford your ideal house. You wanted your first house to be your only house, and I suggested how it could be done.You have now admitted that it has taken you the guts of 14 years to see any return on your latest endeavour, yet you still presented your idea to me as a reasonable, safe investment in order to earn money if I would bother only put in the effort, when your own situation is proof that it doesn’t always work, and therefore not an investment a low earner should be making with their life savings.It’s clearly a huge risk and waiting a decade and a half to have access to secure accommodation is not something I’m aspiring to do.
Except.. I did get my mortgage and a decent house, due to a prior investment. Nothing is risk free, nor did I even remotely suggest that it was.
I simply pointed out that your desire for a 300k house wouldn't be realised without going up the property ladder... which is what many people used to do. Buy something cheap, keep it for a while, resell it... rinse and repeat, until they reached the place they wanted to keep for themselves.
As for my investment, I hadn't counted on a major recession. Very few people had, and as I said earlier, posters here are far too smug with the benefit of hindsight. Still, in any case, I will make a profit from my property, I will manage to sell it, and I will be in a much better position to get what I want later. It just took longer.Also I never once stated I expect the state or anyone else to provide housing to me, and I will never agree that wanting secure rentals for a fair price and fairer access to mortgages is the equivalent of being a sponger.
Ahh yes, the system is broken, it's unfair, it needs to be fixed. Those with power don't help. Yup.0 -
You are.lainey_d_123 wrote: »Who is talking about nice properties in nice areas??
Are you saying that you dont want to live in a nice property in a nice area?
oh look, you are giving out about a property that isnt nice and isnt in a nice area. Excuse me for thinking that you wanted nice things in nice places.I linked to a one-bed in Dolphin's Barn which was an absolute hole of a place and needed extensive work done to it, on sale for 185K.
You really believe that someone on average Dublin wages should still struggle to afford a kip like that after saving for years?
It might be a kip, but its a kip in the capital city. If you want to spend less on your kip, look outside of the capital mayhaps?
You are one of the rudest.You're one of the slowest posters I've ever encountered on Boards.ie, and there's a good bit of competition.
Well, other than yourself as proven above, but carry on.Nobody is talking about 'nice' properties in 'nice' places except you.
How about *outside* of the nations capital?How much more 'modest' can you get than a one-bed flat or a studio, in the worst parts of Dublin?You think it's normal that average and below average earners (so half the city population) should not even be able to afford that?
On their own? Yes, I do think its normal, whats not normal to me is that you think everyone should be able to afford to live in the capital city.
Are you aware of things like supply/demand/competition?0 -
You might have had the acumen to do a bit of work on the first property you had in order to turn a profit, but your second purchase was a mistake that you've admitted you're still paying for now. If that's the sum total of what you've got from "doing what it takes" then you mustn't be trying hard enough, right?
Where you get all that from? I'm coming out of negative equity, rental prices are decent, I have a stable tenant with a long contract, within a few years I'll have paid off my losses, and be in a position to make a profit off the sale. It would be nice to sell sooner, but it's getting pretty damn good TBH.
As for doing what it takes, I did that. Rather than fail to make my repayments, and enter further debt, I left Ireland to get a job, lived in a much cheaper country, saved, and weathered out the period of low values. I did what it took to get past the bad times... I simply pointed out that renting out a property isn't as wonderful as some here think.. (nor did I want to rent it out originally, and was living in the property myself until the crash happened)0 -
Who is providing these properties? Are you talking about social housing here?
I have a feeling that certain posters on here wouldnt take too kindly to social housing...
Which countries are you referring to? I can show you how poorer people live in the more densely populated parts of the world, but I dont thikn you are going to like it.
I’d happily live in social housing if I could, I’m below the income threshold so would be entitled to a property but unfortunately single childless people are not prioritised, so I can’t access that option either.
The Belgian and Vienna models seem to work extremely well. Belgium in particular has a rule where the rent of a property cannot be more expensive than the mortgage repayment of an equivalent property.
And again, I’m not saying I have all the answers here. I just don’t think the current system is acceptable.
You seem determined to deny there is even a problem in the first place and shoot down any discussion of reform of change, as if this is the best we should hope for, and damn all the people the current system excludes.0 -
Advertisement
-
Renting out a property is not easy, you,ll probably pay around 50 per cent tax on any profits you make.
You can still buy a 2bed house 20-30 minutes from dublin at a reasonable price.If you buy a house on the south side of dublin you,ll pay a premium versus buying in coolock or somewhere on the northside .
Builders build apartments hoping to sell x per cent of units to investors or landlords,
otherwise they could not get finance to buy the land.
Every modern economy needs landlords to provide rental units for workers
and single people and students.
working from home will effect the property market.
Some people may decide to buy a cheap house in athlone or a rural area,
rather than buying a 1 bed apartment in dublin .
If it turns out all you need is an internet connection and a pc to work
and maybe go to an office 1 or 2 days a week.0 -
Yep, but they're too big to fail... and when they do fail, the properties will be snapped up by other "investment" (see:vulture) funds.Wanderer78 wrote: »and let me guess where theyre getting the 'money' for these properties.......
'credit'!0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Where you get all that from? I'm coming out of negative equity, rental prices are decent, I have a stable tenant with a long contract, within a few years I'll have paid off my losses, and be in a position to make a profit off the sale. It would be nice to sell sooner, but it's getting pretty damn good TBH.
As for doing what it takes, I did that. Rather than fail to make my repayments, and enter further debt, I left Ireland to get a job, lived in a much cheaper country, saved, and weathered out the period of low values. I did what it took to get past the bad times... I simply pointed out that renting out a property isn't as wonderful as some here think.. (nor did I want to rent it out originally, and was living in the property myself until the crash happened)
You got the cheap easy credit the first time around, that's not available now- it shouldn't be, and you worked hard in order to keep the house, but let's not pretend you had any other choice than to weather out the period of low values. If someone is slightly younger than you, they won't even have had the same opportunity as you to royally f**k up their finances and wait for them to return to normal so that they can boast about how clever and hard working they are for having no other option.
I would wager a guess and say we had the same choice at the same time, but I swallowed the blue pill, remaining debt and negative equity free, and you swallowed the red pill, saddling yourself with that.0 -
Yep, but they're too big to fail... and when they do fail, the properties will be snapped up by other "investment" (see:vulture) funds.
the sad reality is, they actually are too big to fail, but giving them tax payers money, with little or no conditions attached, is beyond stupid, we desperately need to create a public banking system, just to give ourselves some element of control of our financial system0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Where did I tell you to suck it up? But yes, I did recommend the investing in lower properties, and reselling them to make up the difference between your savings from a salary and the overall cost... since you repeatedly made the point that you couldn't afford what you wanted based on your salary... however, you went at great lengths to describe how unfair it was that you couldn't afford your ideal house. You wanted your first house to be your only house, and I suggested how it could be done.
This is now the second time that I’ve clarified that I never expected or wanted to own a 300 grand house. I was talking about 300 grand houses in the context of the average earner being able to access mortgages for the average priced property.
I am not the average earner so I wasn’t referring to myself in that context at all.
My problem isn’t that I can’t afford my dream house, it’s that I can’t really afford any house.
I’m not prioritised for social housing. When I was renting in the past I didn’t find a single landlord who would accept HAP. Finding a fair priced secure rental is impossible. I am excluded from pretty much every option. I’m not the only person in this position and it isn’t uncommon.Except.. I did get my mortgage and a decent house, due to a prior investment. Nothing is risk free, nor did I even remotely suggest that it was.
Which was nothing but sheer luck and a huge gamble that happened to pay off, and had very little to do with any effort or work on your part.I simply pointed out that your desire for a 300k house wouldn't be realised without going up the property ladder... which is what many people used to do. Buy something cheap, keep it for a while, resell it... rinse and repeat, until they reached the place they wanted to keep for themselves.
See aforementioned clarification that I do not, nor did I ever expect to own a 300 grand home on my single modest wage.
And as I said before this is not a sustainable or reasonable solution for a low earner, it might work some of the time, it won’t work all of the time.
It would be very, very reckless for a person (particularly a person with no experience in property renovation or development, aka most people) to spend their life savings on a gamble that may or may not pay off.
Especially when you consider that if it were to go badly wrong, they would probably never financially recover because a bank won’t entertain someone who was silly enough to blow their modest income and savings on something that had such potential to tits up.
Banks do not look kindly on people who take huge financial risks and lose it all.As for my investment, I hadn't counted on a major recession. Very few people had, and as I said earlier, posters here are far too smug with the benefit of hindsight. Still, in any case, I will make a profit from my property, I will manage to sell it, and I will be in a much better position to get what I want later. It just took longer.
Ahh yes, the system is broken, it's unfair, it needs to be fixed. Those with power don't help. Yup.
Most people don’t count on not getting their college course, or not being able to get promoted in work, or not being able to get a 70k per year job either. These things just happen and we have to deal with them as they come.
I would argue that you yourself are in the smug gang, but for a different reason. Maybe try to use your own experience to have some compassion for the difficulties others are facing.
The system is broken. Look at the data from the last election. One of the biggest issues on the doorstep across all parties was housing.
These people can’t all be lazy spongers who were too irresponsible to plan for their futures, this is a real problem that is affecting a lot of people of all circumstances.0 -
You got the cheap easy credit the first time around, that's not available now- it shouldn't be, and you worked hard in order to keep the house, but let's not pretend you had any other choice than to weather out the period of low values.
Actually, I did have another choice. I could have settled with the bank and allowed them to possess the house, whereupon they would have become the landlord, renting it out, and I'd be scot free of everything. It would have cost be a bit to do it, but not really that much. They made me that offer when I started struggling with the repayments. I didn't accept.If someone is slightly younger than you, they won't even have had the same opportunity as you to royally f**k up their finances and wait for them to return to normal so that they can boast about how clever and hard working they are for having no other option.
Who is boasting about being clever and hard working? Go on... point to my posts and quote where I said that. You were doing so well before... actually arguing the points made, but now you feel the need to go off script.
And I'm not sure how many younger people would be close to such a position since I was under 30 when all this happened... So, people younger than I was, are expecting to acquire expensive mortgages (300k house was used earlier), but rely entirely on their salary? Right. ok. Yeah.. that's realistic.I would wager a guess and say we had the same choice at the same time, but I swallowed the blue pill, remaining debt and negative equity free, and you swallowed the red pill, saddling yourself with that.
You would hazard a guess by making crap up. I told you what happened, and yet, you still want to interject a different scenario of events and outcomes. Strange.
The only debt I have is the remainder of my mortgage which I've got about 60% paid off. My property is out of negative equity, and local property prices are still rising well. I'll be in a good position to sell within a few years, and I'll likely still manage a reasonable profit. Less than I expected a decade ago, but still puts me in a good position for the future.0 -
I’d happily live in social housing if I could, I’m below the income threshold so would be entitled to a property but unfortunately single childless people are not prioritised, so I can’t access that option either.
The Belgian and Vienna models seem to work extremely well. Belgium in particular has a rule where the rent of a property cannot be more expensive than the mortgage repayment of an equivalent property.
And again, I’m not saying I have all the answers here. I just don’t think the current system is acceptable.
You seem determined to deny there is even a problem in the first place and shoot down any discussion of reform of change, as if this is the best we should hope for, and damn all the people the current system excludes.
I'm not at all shooting down changes, I'm just questioning how they are going to work (outside of creating more social housing).
I agree there isn't enough of it at the moment, which means people like you are left behind and I 100% agree that this is the governments problem to solve.
What I dont agree with, or at least cant see working, is non-social "affordable" housing unless its somehow controlled by the gov, which is effectively social housing imo.
I'll add that its galling to see people refusing social housing for non essential reasons.0 -
I would argue that you yourself are in the smug gang, but for a different reason. Maybe try to use your own experience to have some compassion for the difficulties others are facing
I do have compassion for their situation. I just know there are other options.
I'm bowing out since this discussion is going well beyond what it written, and turning into something else.
I do hope you manage to get what you want.0 -
I'm not at all shooting down changes, I'm just questioning how they are going to work (outside of creating more social housing).
I agree there isn't enough of it at the moment, which means people like you are left behind and I 100% agree that this is the governments problem to solve.
What I dont agree with, or at least cant see working, is non-social "affordable" housing unless its somehow controlled by the gov, which is effectively social housing imo.
I'll add that its galling to see people refusing social housing for non essential reasons.
I recall a thread in another forum where there was a deep dive on solutions from other jurisdictions. I don't think I'm recalling things too incorrectly where you dismissed everything out of hand and went off on tangents about socialism and spongers.
So on the bolded, I honestly don't believe you do. And affordable housing does not equate to social housing.0 -
I recall a thread in another forum where there was a deep dive on solutions from other jurisdictions. I don't think I'm recalling things too incorrectly where you dismissed everything out of hand and went off on tangents about socialism and spongers.
So on the bolded, I honestly don't believe you do. And affordable housing does not equate to social housing.
i personally believe a public banking system should be created, to fund public housing, aimed at young professionals struggling to get access to the housing and rental markets0 -
Advertisement
-
Deleted User wrote: »
And I'm not sure how many younger people would be close to such a position since I was under 30 when all this happened... So, people younger than I was, are expecting to acquire expensive mortgages (300k house was used earlier), but rely entirely on their salary? Right. ok. Yeah.. that's realistic.
I was relying on my wage, in precarious employment, when I was offered 250k at the time. I admit I was wrong about the details, I was significantly younger than you, since it was a bit later that it was offered to me. We're not talking about people in their early 20s expecting to borrow 395k here, we're talking about people in their 30s in steady and well paid employment not being able to a) save 25/30k for a deposit because it's not possible to get reasonable rent and b) not qualifying for a mortgage which is enough to buy a reasonably modest home within a reasonable commute of their work.Deleted User wrote: »The only debt I have is the remainder of my mortgage which I've got about 60% paid off. My property is out of negative equity, and local property prices are still rising well. I'll be in a good position to sell within a few years, and I'll likely still manage a reasonable profit. Less than I expected a decade ago, but still puts me in a good position for the future.
That's great, but in the meantime you're halfway around the world and aren't in a position to start a family- not saying this is what you want but a significant portion of the population would want to achieve that before they're middle aged. The "Teaching English in China while getting accommodation for free and renting out your house in Ireland to cover the mortgage because you can't afford to live there" lifestyle is one that would suit a rather niche group of people.0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »i personally believe a public banking system should be created, to fund public housing, aimed at young professionals struggling to get access to the housing and rental markets
Who controls/manages this and is it open for anyone to purchase from it?
If its not open to all, then its controlled by the government and is effectively social housing imo.0 -
You are.
Are you saying that you dont want to live in a nice property in a nice area?
oh look, you are giving out about a property that isnt nice and isnt in a nice area. Excuse me for thinking that you wanted nice things in nice places.
It might be a kip, but its a kip in the capital city. If you want to spend less on your kip, look outside of the capital mayhaps?
I'm not.
I completely understand that making average salary means you can't buy a house in Dalkey. A fcking five-year-old would understand that. I would think that a dilapidated one-bed place in a rough inner city area would be more affordable for the average Joe earning an average wage. And it isn't.You are one of the rudest.
Don't like hearing the truth, do you?Well, other than yourself as proven above, but carry on.
How about *outside* of the nations capital?
Why? How do you think it's normal that people on average wages, including essential workers like nurses, teachers and those working on essential infrastructure can't afford to live in any part of the city they work in?On their own? Yes, I do think its normal, whats not normal to me is that you think everyone should be able to afford to live in the capital city.
Are you aware of things like supply/demand/competition?
Yes, I think a worker earning an average wage should be able to afford to buy a one-bed flat in the city they work in by their mid to late thirties, after years of saving for a deposit.
Yes, I am aware of supply and demand, which is why the ENTIRE TIME I've been saying that more high rise housing needs to be built, especially small, basic apartments catering to single people! I even linked to example of such a development in Manchester.
You are SO slow, it's truly incredible.0 -
Who controls/manages this and is it open for anyone to purchase from it?
If its not open to all, then its controlled by the government and is effectively social housing imo.
Nonsense.
I'm not even necessarily speaking in favour of Wanderers proposal, as I think other measures and interventions would be effective before we got to that point. But, here's the script, you'll label any and every intervention as social housing, even if it doesn't bear any resemblance to what we understand the term to be.
(Social housing will be just one part of the solution to tackle this chronic issue, and people need to reconcile themselves to that)0 -
My boomer parents have done pretty well for themselves but I'll be inheriting it, so all good.0
-
*CAPITAL* city. There, I even put the world capital in capitals so you might notice it this time. If you think you should be able to afford something in the capital, what do you expect a similar property to go for in, lets say Laois?lainey_d_123 wrote: »I'm not.
I completely understand that making average salary means you can't buy a house in Dalkey. A fcking five-year-old would understand that. I would think that a dilapidated one-bed place in a rough inner city area would be more affordable for the average Joe earning an average wage. And it isn't.
Because, as even a 5 year old would know, no one is going to build a property for less than cost and so the price of said property in the capital is going to be significantly more than elsewhere in the country.
Don't like attacking the post and not the poster, do you?
Don't like hearing the truth, do you?
De-mand.Why? How do you think it's normal that people on average wages, including essential workers like nurses, teachers and those working on essential infrastructure can't afford to live in any part of the city they work in?
Lots of other people want to live in that same part of the city and they have more money (in many cases combined) than your essential workers.
Where do you suggest these individuals live if its not in the properties they are currently in?
How much have they saved? I could save for years and have 5K, "saving for years" is as meaningless as "working very hard".Yes, I think a worker earning an average wage should be able to afford to buy a one-bed flat in the city they work in by their mid to late thirties, after years of saving for a deposit.
So you are now ok with living in social housing in a high rise in Manchester?Yes, I am aware of supply and demand, which is why the ENTIRE TIME I've been saying that more high rise housing needs to be built, especially small, basic apartments catering to single people! I even linked to example of such a development in Manchester.
But you are too good for Dolphins Barn? I somehow doubt that a high rise is where you see yourself tbh.
Indeed, one of us truly doesn't get it. Also one of us is moaning about how unfair the world is. Wonder which is which.You are SO slow, it's truly incredible.0 -
Thomas Hudson wrote: »My boomer parents have done pretty well for themselves but I'll be inheriting it, so all good.
CGT, CAT and inheritance tax are all going to be ramped to the hilt to pay for the covid pandemic, they can't afford the mutiny of an income tax hike so they'll hit you where it hurts, your parents assets.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »CGT, CAT and inheritance tax are all going to be ramped to the hilt to pay for the covid pandemic, they can't afford the mutiny of an income tax hike so they'll hit you where it hurts, your parents assets.
Oh I know but I'm sure some smart lawyer will know a loophole or too.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
That's great, but in the meantime you're halfway around the world and aren't in a position to start a family- not saying this is what you want but a significant portion of the population would want to achieve that before they're middle aged. The "Teaching English in China while getting accommodation for free and renting out your house in Ireland to cover the mortgage because you can't afford to live there" lifestyle is one that would suit a rather niche group of people.
I lecture Business Management at a university in China .. and I'm perfectly capable of having a family, should I wish to do so. Nowhere did I say that anyone else should go/work abroad.
You keep ignoring what I've previously written, in favor of writing about crap, I didn't say. (Although, yes, I have been an English teacher a few times.. however, I worked as a Management Consultant in Beijing when I first arrived.)
Perhaps quote me, deal with the quoted piece, resist making sh1t up, and avoid arguing based on your made up sh1t. Actually, no, don't quote me, because I'm finished with the topic.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement