Boomer Wealth

silverharp

Its great being a Gen Xer , sit back watching the Millenials fighting it out with Boomers

Naos

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Inflation was at almost 21% in 1975. It was under 1% last year. The “wage increases” in the ‘70s didn’t make average people wealthier. You’d get your six or seven figure earnings fairly soon with inflation like that, but you’d still be no better off than you are now.

My point is that you can’t just look at that generation and say “they could all afford houses, and we can’t. Therefore it was easier for them” or “house prices were lower then” or “wages increased at a higher percentage then” You need to look at the totality of the economy at the time. But also at society at the time.

They lived differently, in very challenging economic times. They put buying a house over almost everything else, and suffered for it. That investment has paid off now, as their property is often worth good money in today’s market, but they suffered for it at the time. There’s no comparison between lifestyles in the 70s and now.

Maybe, but they were also buying houses very young. My folks for example bought when they were 20 & 21.

Dizzyblonde

Naos wrote: »

Maybe, but they were also buying houses very young. My folks for example bought when they were 20 & 21.

True - I was 22 when we bought our house. We'd been saving hard since I was 19 though. Not many 19-22 year olds nowadays would be willing to do the same, but they were different times. For most of us college wasn't an option because our parents needed us to be working and supporting ourselves, and that's another reason why we settled down so young.

Charles Babbage

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

People’s wages increase now too, and mortgages stay the same. Thats no different to now.

It was different than now. People's wages increase because of experience and because of inflation. Back when inflation was 10%+, so your wages would double over a few years for inflation reasons alone and that made the mortgage affordable. The first couple of years were tough, but there was light at end of the tunnel.

Smee_Again

Dual wheels wrote: »

Ungrateful feckers

Who?

Smee_Again

arccosh wrote: »

also, double digit barely hit 20% (20% number from a family member)..... so 25k at worst (20% full term) meant 30k to pay back..... I'd take that today:pac:


rate max mid teens in this link

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/history-of-mortgage-rates-in-ireland.html

It’s 20% per year, not 20% of the capital spread over the term.

Tony EH

silverharp wrote: »

Its great being a Gen Xer , sit back watching the Millenials fighting it out with Boomers

LOL, we're still "slackers". :pac:

Tony EH

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

True - I was 22 when we bought our house. We'd been saving hard since I was 19 though. Not many 19-22 year olds nowadays would be willing to do the same, but they were different times. For most of us college wasn't an option because our parents needed us to be working and supporting ourselves, and that's another reason why we settled down so young.

Able...not "willing".

Hodors Appletart

Great post Dizzy

I grew up in the 80s my mam and dad bought the house in 1978 and I remember there were tears in the mid to late 80s when my mam became pregnant with my sister the youngest - it was going to be an even bigger struggle. My dad left a job and took a paycut so he could get into the then Dublin Corpo, now DCC - so he could have a "job for life" and a pension

we were absolutely on the breadline and I remember wearing clothes from older cousins that came in black bags

they worked damn hard to provide for us and they continue to provide for us and their grandkids still today

I'll never be able to tell them just how much I appreciate them for all they've done and continue to do

arccosh

Bandana boy wrote: »

25K @20% over 20 years will cost you 100K not 30K

I'll take 2 please

salonfire

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There were three rounds of public sector pay cuts, which over ten years later still haven't been reversed.

That's a lie.

Taking teachers for example, Point 10 was €44,000 in '08 vs €49,978 now; as I found in this thread.

brookers

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I remember my dad going through his finances with me about 3 years ago. He was 78 at the time. Fully owned a house in Dublin, had 6 figure savings and a decent pension coming in each month - more than he needed, so even at that age his savings were growing. He said that it was the first time in his life that he felt financially secure. He spent his whole working life worrying about money, and finally in his old age he could relax - and he knew that he had the money to cover any care that he would need in the future.

Little did the two of us know that night that less than a year later, he’d be paying €1200 a week in nursing home fees, as he slowly lost his independence, health and mind. He died in May - didn’t stand a chance when Covid 19 ravaged the home.

Myself and my brother stand to inherit what he left now, which is a strange booby prize for the loss of a great dad. Both of us would have gladly seen his savings decimated, and us paying for his care, to still have him with us.

But I still remember how happy and proud and fearless he was that night, when he could say that no matter what happened to him as old age unfolded, he could cover it.

Your father sounds like a great person, he was lucky to have two caring sons.

Tony EH

There seems to be a lot of illusions about the 80's on this thread, whether thinking it was great or some doom laden apocalypse.

Well, I grew up in the 80's too and recall that people were able to buy a three up/two down house on one modest factory wage. That's not even remotely possible these days.

The issue today isn't being "willing", it isn't "college", it isn't "emigration" either. It's the cost and opportunity.

lalababa

The one & only time I asked my father for a loan he said

"a loan, ha, I'd rather hang myself!".

Of course he rowed back on that a bit . The loan was nominal and paid back the next week.

lalababa

Tony EH wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of illusions about the 80's on this thread, whether thinking it was great or some doom laden apocalypse.

Well, I grew up in the 80's too and recall that people were able to buy a three up/two down house on one modest factory wage. That's not even remotely possible these days.

The issue today isn't being "willing", it isn't "college", it isn't "emigration" either. It's the cost and opportunity.

I remember seeing an architect in I think Leitrim a few years back </> new building reg.s. That built a house for basically f**k all. He Designed it simple and used the cheapest (but not necessarily the worst!) Materials etc. If I remember it was timber frame with corrugated iron on the outside , 6inches of insulation, and a pile of chipboard /MDF /marine ply . Ah yeah just looked it up. Dominic Stevens 3 bed for 25k in 2008.

blanch152

Tony EH wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of illusions about the 80's on this thread, whether thinking it was great or some doom laden apocalypse.

Well, I grew up in the 80's too and recall that people were able to buy a three up/two down house on one modest factory wage. That's not even remotely possible these days.

The issue today isn't being "willing", it isn't "college", it isn't "emigration" either. It's the cost and opportunity.

The people growing up in the 1980s didn't have foreign holidays, many families didn't own even one car, they didn't have gym memberships, they didn't get a latte on the way to work in the morning, they had hand-me-down clothes and certainly didn't have NIKEs etc. and lost more besides. A meal in a restaurant, even a chipper was a once a year occasion.

To buy that three up/two down house, a lot of sacrifices therefore had to made and they were often in their early 30s before they could afford it. The same sacrifices today would make it possible, it's just that people aren't prepared to make them. And that's ok, them's the choices, I don't have a problem with them making those choices, it's the whinging about it afterwards that's the problem.

lalababa

Somewhat true, but not really as house prices and cost of build have jumped substantially relative to income.

Dizzyblonde

Tony EH wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of illusions about the 80's on this thread, whether thinking it was great or some doom laden apocalypse.

Well, I grew up in the 80's too and recall that people were able to buy a three up/two down house on one modest factory wage. That's not even remotely possible these days.

The issue today isn't being "willing", it isn't "college", it isn't "emigration" either. It's the cost and opportunity.

No they couldn't - I was an adult in the 80s and that wasn't possible, certainly not in Dublin. It wasn't a doom laden apocalypse but times were very hard. We lived frugally and were happy to do it in order to own our home so our children would have security growing up.

Part of it is absolutely a willingness to do without in order to buy a home, and my own kids did the same when they were saving their deposits.

Hotblack Desiato

CrankyHaus wrote: »

When I raised this issue before I had people falling over themselves to inform me that all of their family work in the PS

A lot of that is being encouraged by family to apply for the jobs. Lots of people don't consider public service careers because they hold a lot of uninformed / irraltional ideas about them - like that you need "connections" to get in... :rolleyes:

Tony EH

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

No they couldn't

Yes they COULD. I have people in MY family that did just that.

And not only could they buy their house on one modest wage in DUBLIN, they also had 3 kids throughout the decade too.

Don't try and tell me what my history is.

Hotblack Desiato

salonfire wrote: »

That's a lie.

Taking teachers for example, Point 10 was €44,000 in '08 vs €49,978 now; as I found in this thread.

Get your facts straight before making accusations of lying.

You are looking at gross figures, very conveniently ignoring the pension related deduction which was (and is) one of the major elements of the public sector pay cuts.

Your link was funny, you were rightly "schooled" on that thread! :pac:

An Ri rua

Tony EH wrote: »

Able...not "willing".

It's 'willing, not 'able'....

They're living at home for God's sake.

markodaly

Yurt! wrote: »

Thomas Sowell is skilled in American partisan political rhetoric and very little else. Certainly not hard-nosed economics that stands up to scrutiny. A sad case of an African American in the Academy made into a useful idiot. It paid his mortgage a few times over I guess.

A racist statement if I saw one, but anyway.

markodaly

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

People’s wages increase now too, and mortgages stay the same. Thats no different to now.

The deposit issue is a valid difference. Not sure what deposit he had to put up, but it most likely wasn’t the same percentage as one would have to stump up now.

Not really. At the moment, or at least for the past decade or two, there has been little inflation, which wipes away debt.
Back in the 70's and 80's there was plenty of inflation, which over time made big mortgages very manageable.
Nowadays though, there is simply too much debt to sustain high-interest rates.

salonfire

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Get your facts straight before making accusations of lying.

You are looking at gross figures, very conveniently ignoring the pension related deduction which was (and is) one of the major elements of the public sector pay cuts.

Your link was funny, you were rightly "schooled" on that thread! :pac:

I wasn't schooled by anybody. I presented the facts as they are which showed an increase in gross wage between 2008 and 2020.


Regarding the pension, your benefits remained the same. And it is only right you should contribute more. By the way, you don't contribute a cent extra on the first €34,000.

Everyone else who pays PRSI has seen their eligibility to retire on the State Pension moved from 66 to 68 with more raises to come.

Yurt2

markodaly wrote: »

A racist statement if I saw one, but anyway.

It's not really though is it?


Sowell is from the Bill Cosby 'pull up your breetches' wing of American race relations with a thin veneer of Ivy League patter. 2D, patronizing and utterly useful to the economic right in America to peddle out every now and then.

JohnnyFlash

Yurt! wrote: »

It's not really though is it?


Sowell is from the Bill Cosby 'pull up your breetches' wing of American race relations with a thin veneer of Ivy League patter. 2D, patronizing and utterly useful to the economic right in America to peddle out every now and then.

Nah, that’s racism, dude. Some white dude on an Irish message board discrediting an African American because he has different politics and views than yourself. What sort of views would you allow Sowell to hold? Is there a defined set of economic, political and social viewpoints you’d allow a black person in the US to have?

A black conservative. Imagine!! How dare he!

Yurt2

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Nah, that’s racism, dude. Some white dude on an Irish message board discrediting an African American because he has different politics and views than yourself. What sort of views would you allow Sowell to hold? Is there a defined set of economic, political and social viewpoints you’d allow a black person in the US to have?

A black conservative. Imagine!! How dare he!

Right on, duderino. Surf's-up.

JohnnyFlash

Yurt! wrote: »

Right on, duderino. Surf's-up.

You must be from the Michael O’Leary ‘pull up your britches’ school of Irish diplomacy and debate.

Gerry Hatrick

joseywhales wrote: »

I think this is more about housing costs than any other factor, I would argue we have better health which is priceless.

This generation has it easy.