Boomer Wealth

Limpy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Jesus, some really got hammered, it does happen, unfortunately

They didnt have much anyway to begin with. Worked hard all there lives. The son fecked off to Germany to work and his wife calls to the boomer house on kids birthdays, some neck on them.

Ush1

People aren't being honest about what they want either. Single people on average salary looking to buy a 3 bed in Dublin city. Expectations need to be changed.

If you're single and on not great money, a 1 bed apartment should be your aim unless you want to live further out somewhere.

Wanderer78

Limpy wrote:

They didnt have much anyway to begin with. Worked hard all there lives. The son fecked off to Germany to work and his wife calls to the boomer house on kids birthdays, some neck on them.

Pricks, but they exist in all generations

lainey_d_123

Feisar wrote: »

I'm sort of tossing this debate back and forth in my head. I remember growing up and there was nothing extra in the house. A Vienetta was a big treat as a birthday cake. XMas prezzies were small, hand-me-downs the norm. I don't know if bottled water was a thing, I certainly don't remember it. Meals out? Never happened. I don't remember it but talking to my parents, interest rates were mental. We used to rent the VCR along with tapes. I remember Dad buying one second hand one time, it was a big deal. Steak for dinner was a big treat.

Now on the other hand the basics seam to be much higher. One needs Netflix/broadband/whatever. Chai Lattés the norm. It seems there are far more avenues to spend money these days and also when one looks around everyone else is at it. I remember a few years ago a lad crying about a deposit in one breath and talking about his skiing trip in the next.
The thing is though, who is buying these houses, only so many power couples about.

I grew up in a similar way in the 80s and 90s. But the point is that all these new 'luxuries' are dirt cheap in comparison with the cost of basic essentials like a secure roof over your head.

Bottle of water - about 60p
Meals out - can be cheap enough
Netflix - under a tenner a month and most people split that so it's even cheaper
Broadband - essential, and can be had very cheaply
Chai latte - alright, yes, a luxury and overpriced, but hardly stopping someone buying a house

You don't even need to rent VCRs or videos today - you can download or stream almost anything you might want to watch totally free. Our parents' generation spent money on records and CDs - we get all that for free or for the price of a Spotify subscription. You're forgetting the many things that are cheaper than they were.

Even more 'extravagant' things like a ski trip are still relatively cheap compared to a house deposit. You could forego your ski trip every year and not go anywhere and still not have a deposit in ten years.

The problem isn't lattes and Netflix. The problem is spending 50% of your income on substandard, crappy accommodation (often just a room in a shared flat) just to have a roof over your head.

Wanderer78

Ush1 wrote:

People aren't being honest about what they want either. Single people on average salary looking to buy a 3 bed in Dublin city. Expectations need to be changed.

So thinking of possible future wants and needs is not good?

Wanderer78

lainey_d_123 wrote:

The problem isn't lattes and Netflix. The problem is spending 50% of your income on substandard, crappy accommodation (often just a room in a shared flat) just to have a roof over your head.

The fire (finance, insurance and real estate) sectors are killing us!

Ush1

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So thinking of possible future wants and needs is not good?

You can think all you want but you house yourself to your current needs. If you get a working partner, obviously your spending power will be increased and can buy a bigger place.

Or do you think everyone should live in 3 bed semis in the city?

lainey_d_123

Ush1 wrote: »

People aren't being honest about what they want either. Single people on average salary looking to buy a 3 bed in Dublin city. Expectations need to be changed.

If you're single and on not great money, a 1 bed apartment should be your aim unless you want to live further out somewhere.

I don't know anyone who expects that. Not a single person.

I'm a single person living in London on an above average salary. Already 35 and would still need to save for a few years even to buy a one-bed flat in a not-great part of London. Would be a similar story in Dublin.

Someone on 'not great money' can't afford to buy anything at all, let alone a one-bed flat in Dublin city. You seem very out of touch.

osarusan

Feisar wrote: »

The thing is though, who is buying these houses, only so many power couples about.

Cuckoo funds, for one thing. They bought between €1.5 and €2billion of property in Ireland in 2019. That's up to 2 billion worth of property that's off the purchasing market for the foreseeable future.

This assumption persists that the housing market is the same as before, and if people sacrifice the same as before, they'll be ok.

But there have been some fundamental changes to the market, and the 'If we could do it then, anybody can do it now' argument doesn't hold much water when taking these changes into account.

Wanderer78

Ush1 wrote:

You can think all you want but you house yourself to your current needs. If you get a working partner, obviously your spending power will be increased and can buy a bigger place.

Not all can do this, obviously, what if you don't get a working partner?

Ush1 wrote:

Or do you think everyone should live in 3 bed semis in the city?

Of course not, just build more apartments, particularly for transitional people

Ush1

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I don't know anyone who expects that. Not a single person.

I'm a single person living in London on an above average salary. Already 35 and would still need to save for a few years even to buy a one-bed flat in a not-great part of London. Would be a similar story in Dublin.

Someone on 'not great money' can't afford to buy anything at all, let alone a one-bed flat in Dublin city. You seem very out of touch.

150k for some in Dublin city, 125k further out in Clondalkin.

Someone on 38k with 10 percent deposit can afford that. If you're working and saving you should be able to afford something like that, depending on other expenses of course.

Ush1

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Not all can do this, obviously, what if you don't get a working partner?

Buy a one bed?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Of course not, just build more apartments, particularly for transitional people

Easier said than done of course but my point remains the same.

PokeHerKing

osarusan wrote: »

Cuckoo funds, for one thing. They bought between €1.5 and €2billion of property in Ireland in 2019. That's up to 2 billion worth of property that's off the purchasing market for the foreseeable future.

This assumption persists that the housing market is the same as before, and if people sacrifice the same as before, they'll be ok.

But there have been some fundamental changes to the market, and the 'If we could do it then, anybody can do it now' argument doesn't hold much water when taking these changes into account.

But 1000s do buy homes. I bought, 75% of my close friends have bought. The ones that haven't, I'm sorry to say were the vagabonds, always living paycheck to paycheck even on good wages.

Granted my close circle are mostly from similar backgrounds but only 1 in 4 have failed to do what all our parents managed to do.

Yellow_Fern

beauf wrote: »

If you were to look at some of these houses that are now unaffordable.

They were probably built with one bathroom, no Central heating, single glazing, basic kitchen. Basic materials and finishes. Often in the middle of nowhere with no facilities near them.

Could you buy something similar today at a reasonable price. Then upgrade it over 20 yrs and gamble that it's a good investment? Probably.

I think a bank will only give you a mortgage of such a property if you could afford to shell out another 50 k or to renovate.

beauf

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I grew up in a similar way in the 80s and 90s. But the point is that all these new 'luxuries' are dirt cheap in comparison with the cost of basic essentials like a secure roof over your head.

Bottle of water - about 60p
Meals out - can be cheap enough
Netflix - under a tenner a month and most people split that so it's even cheaper
Broadband - essential, and can be had very cheaply
Chai latte - alright, yes, a luxury and overpriced, but hardly stopping someone buying a house

You don't even need to rent VCRs or videos today - you can download or stream almost anything you might want to watch totally free. Our parents' generation spent money on records and CDs - we get all that for free or for the price of a Spotify subscription. You're forgetting the many things that are cheaper than they were.

Even more 'extravagant' things like a ski trip are still relatively cheap compared to a house deposit. You could forego your ski trip every year and not go anywhere and still not have a deposit in ten years.

The problem isn't lattes and Netflix. The problem is spending 50% of your income on substandard, crappy accommodation (often just a room in a shared flat) just to have a roof over your head.

All these "modern essentials" added together are substantial. They are not nothing. How much of someones income are they, 25%, 33%?

Housing is a higher % of income sure. But then in the 80's Dublin really wasn't the modern European city and business hub it is now. Its like you've moved to a major european city and are still expecting the costs to be same as some backwater town in the middle of nowhere.

This is what happened in London and similar. People were priced out of the areas they grew up and had to move out.

People just haven't realized it yet but they've become Economic migrants.

beauf

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I think a bank will only give you a mortgage of such a property if you could afford to shell out another 50 k or to renovate.

The point is not to renovate. Live in like its the 80s. If you look at people who decide to live in tiny houses, or on a boat, or in a van. They generally getting out of the rat race. Its deciding to stay in the rat race thats causing these issues.

if i was starting out I wouldn't be in Dublin and probably not Ireland. Ignoring Covid etc.

JimmyVik

s1ippy wrote: »

Inspired by this Washington Post article and another recent one I can't find now, that said only one fifth of those in America with fortunes to pass on actually intend to do so.

I know it's a very America-centric title, but people born circa 1950 in this country also hold a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power.

Many in Ireland will pass wealth on to their children; possibly more than across the pond. I know a fair few people set to inherit dynasties and debts their parents accrued and incurred.

Ireland has always been renowned as being governed by nepotism and "the land of jobs for the boys" but I never felt any of that. My parents didn't have the right connections. I also envisage that whatever my parents leave in their will, there'll be one particular person who will definitely engage at least me, but possibly all the other beneficiaries in legal action and create a huge mire of sh!t, thus making what's set to be the worst tragedy of my life even more traumatic. Hopefully it's decades away.

Are you set to benefit from your parents wealth? Are you supporting them financially, like so many? Are you self-made or do you owe your success to your background?

Exact same position as me. I already said I will not fight over my parents grave, so anyone who wants to fight this particular person can. Im out. And I dont care if I get nothing. Saying that upset some people because they expect me to fight their battle for them and I will not get involved.

osarusan

beauf wrote: »

But then in the 80's Dublin really wasn't the modern European city and business hub it is now. Its like you've moved to a major european city and are still expecting the costs to be same as some backwater town in the middle of nowhere.

This is what happened in London and similar. People were priced out of the areas they grew up and had to move out.

People just haven't realized it yet but they've become Economic migrants.

I agree with this, but there is the opposite perspective to it also.


Older generations who were able to afford a decent house in a decent part of Dublin by scrimping and saving may still have the idea that anybody should be able to afford a decent house in a decent part of Dublin by doing the same scrimping and saving, and by extention, that people lamenting not being able to afford a decent house in a decent part of Dublin are just not scrimping and saving enough.


Which ignores the fact that Dublin is now a modern European city and business hub that it wasn't back then, and the costs reflect what is is now.

Yellow_Fern

beauf wrote: »

The point is not to renovate. Live in like its the 80s. If you look at people who decide to live in tiny houses, or on a boat, or in a van. They generally getting out of the rat race. Its deciding to stay in the rat race thats causing these issues.

if i was starting out I wouldn't be in Dublin and probably not Ireland. Ignoring Covid etc.

I agree with you and I think banks should allow and even encourage this for some but sometimes they won't grant a mortgage without such a renovation fund.

beauf

osarusan wrote: »

I agree with this, but there is the opposite perspective to it also.


Older generations who were able to afford a decent house in a decent part of Dublin by scrimping and saving may still have the idea that anybody should be able to afford a decent house in a decent part of Dublin by doing the same scrimping and saving, and by extention, that people lamenting not being able to afford a decent house in a decent part of Dublin are just not scrimping and saving enough.


Which ignores the fact that Dublin is now a modern European city and business hub that it wasn't back then, and the costs reflect what is is now.

I think the issue is their idea of scrimping is very different to what people here think scrimping is.

This is apparent in the accommodation forum. People look at perfectly habitable house and won't consider them unless completely modernized.

beauf

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I agree with you and I think banks should allow and even encourage this for some but sometimes they won't grant a mortgage without such a renovation fund.

Many of these properties and ideas don't need a mortgage. Which is why people are going that route. They don't want to to feed that monster.

The J Stands for Jay

OwlsZat wrote: »

Retirement villages? Come on we only build offices and student residences. David McWilliams is re-imagining them thought so have no fear. Perhaps they can turn some of the offices into Retirement villages.

All those offices in Georgian buildings in Dublin lying empty. We could put loads of old people in those. Each person/family has a room in the house. What could go wrong?

lainey_d_123

Ush1 wrote: »

150k for some in Dublin city, 125k further out in Clondalkin.

Someone on 38k with 10 percent deposit can afford that. If you're working and saving you should be able to afford something like that, depending on other expenses of course.

Had a quick look on Daft. There's barely anything in that price range at all, and what there is is mostly out in Finglas, Tallaght and Clondalkin - hardly 'Dublin city', is it'? Even one-beds in those areas are mostly more expensive than that. More towards 200K.

So we've already gone from 'single people want to buy a 3-bed terrace in a nice part of Dublin city centre' to 'single people have to scrimp and save a 20K deposit to rent a one-bed flat in a crap suburb'.

This is a studio flat in a 'nice' bit of Dublin 6, where you could just about walk to work in the centre if you were prepared for a bit of a trek, selling for 200K https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-sale/rathgar/apt-5-20-highfield-rathgar-dublin-2708535/

How do you not see how much of a problem this is?

beauf

See the price of them in 20-30 years.

But you don't want to wait that long. You want the ideal location, ideal property, ideal cost and you want it now..

beauf

You also buy something in the North of England and come back in 20 yrs.

lainey_d_123

beauf wrote: »

All these "modern essentials" added together are substantial. They are not nothing. How much of someones income are they, 25%, 33%?

Housing is a higher % of income sure. But then in the 80's Dublin really wasn't the modern European city and business hub it is now. Its like you've moved to a major european city and are still expecting the costs to be same as some backwater town in the middle of nowhere.

This is what happened in London and similar. People were priced out of the areas they grew up and had to move out.

People just haven't realized it yet but they've become Economic migrants.

No, they're not, though. That's the point. Any 'luxuries' I allow myself are a tiny, tiny proportion of my take-home pay. I'm spending over 50% of it on rent and bills alone, then my next biggest expense is food, and then transport. So something like 70% of my post tax earnings are gone on basic survival alone, before I even get into trying to save, or having any disposable income.

As I've said on this thread, I've had no life at all for the last six months due to covid and it's barely made any difference. That's how few 'luxuries' I have, that even a global pandemic, lockdown and staying in the four walls of my home for six months haven't really made a massive difference to what I can save. If I could live rent-free, I'd have a deposit together in 2 years just from the rent savings alone. Why are people babbling on about lattes and Netflix and ignoring the elephant in the room?

I am frugal. I already do cut back on almost everything, because I dislike spending my hard earned money on frivolous things. But the difference it makes is really minimal.

Ush1

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Had a quick look on Daft. There's barely anything in that price range at all, and what there is is mostly out in Finglas, Tallaght and Clondalkin - hardly 'Dublin city', is it'? Even one-beds in those areas are mostly more expensive than that. More towards 200K.

So we've already gone from 'single people want to buy a 3-bed terrace in a nice part of Dublin city centre' to 'single people have to scrimp and save a 20K deposit to rent a one-bed flat in a crap suburb'.

This is a studio flat in a 'nice' bit of Dublin 6, where you could just about walk to work in the centre if you were prepared for a bit of a trek, selling for 200K https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-sale/rathgar/apt-5-20-highfield-rathgar-dublin-2708535/

How do you not see how much of a problem this is?

No we haven't, I've given you the examples and how its workable. Dublin 6 is one of the most expensive postcodes in the country, why should someone on average money be able to afford to live there?

There is some small properties in East wall in or around that price range.

I'm not out of touch, I graduated from college just before the recession and my ambition was a 1 bed apartment in Tallaght. How many of these young people complaining would be happy with that? And yes I scrimped and saved, why shouldn't you have to?

lainey_d_123

Ush1 wrote: »

No we haven't, I've given you the examples and how its workable. Dublin 6 is one of the most expensive postcodes in the country, why should someone on average money be able to afford to live there?

There is some small properties in East wall in or around that price range.

I'm not out of touch, I graduated from college just before the recession and my ambition was a 1 bed apartment in Tallaght. How many of these young people complaining would be happy with that? And yes I scrimped and saved, why shouldn't you have to?

It's hardly bloody Manhattan or Chelsea, is it? It's a reasonably nice, normal, leafy bit of Dublin a good bit outside the city centre. Why should someone on average money not be able to live in a tiny little flat there?

You are totally backtracking now. One minute you're saying single people on average money expect 3 bed houses in the city and now you're saying that a studio flat in Dublin 6 is unrealistic and that they can actually only expect a one-bed in Tallaght or East Wall.

Which is it?

The J Stands for Jay

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

Just further to the above.

I regularly take loans from my parents. I currently am paying back 10k to my mother, it was a car loan and totally interest free. If I miss a payment here or there it won't matter and my asset is not at risk, but it's all written down and properly accounted for. If I have extra money (the last few months for example where I've not had travel/commute expenses) I pay more off without penalty.

I'm fairly sure my 2 siblings have similar arrangements, and probably got help with their mortgage desposits (I didn't need that help myself).

Are you paying the appropriate tax on that arrangement? I don't believe in that one myself, but it is in the rules...

beauf

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

No, they're not, though. That's the point. Any 'luxuries' I allow myself are a tiny, tiny proportion of my take-home pay. I'm spending over 50% of it on rent and bills alone, then my next biggest expense is food, and then transport. So something like 70% of my post tax earnings are gone on basic survival alone, before I even get into trying to save, or having any disposable income.

As I've said on this thread, I've had no life at all for the last six months due to covid and it's barely made any difference. That's how few 'luxuries' I have, that even a global pandemic, lockdown and staying in the four walls of my home for six months haven't really made a massive difference to what I can save. If I could live rent-free, I'd have a deposit together in 2 years just from the rent savings alone. Why are people babbling on about lattes and Netflix and ignoring the elephant in the room?

I am frugal. I already do cut back on almost everything, because I dislike spending my hard earned money on frivolous things. But the difference it makes is really minimal.

Is changing where you live, area, city or country with lower cost of living not an option?