Cocaine etc is everywhere?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I don't need a crystal ball, when we have been "trying" the legalization method with one of the most dangerous and insidious drugs ever created for generations now - alcohol - and this method clearly hasn't worked for that particular drug.

Just look at the huge damage that alcohol has done to families and communities for generations now. And continues to do.

Now, some of you want to throw a few more highly addictive and life altering substances into that big melting pot... and sure just "see what happens". :rolleyes:

No thanks. I'm smart enough to know what happens.

It's a dumb idea. It's not woke, it's not progressive... it's just foolish.

And those who talk about places such as Portugal etc. Don't be so certain that everything is as rosy in those particular places as is being reported. It can take many years - maybe even generations - before you see the full consequences of such measures.

They are essentially carrying out a live experiment on their own populations... good luck to them, but I don't think it will end very well tbh.

We're already trying out the experiement of prohition with people's lives in the producing countries. And the result has been devestating.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Tomaldo wrote: »

I'll try, with facts instead of opinions. A small minority of drinkers die from it, just like coke. America banned it years ago and that didn't work out just like coke. It made evil people like Al Capone and Pablo Escobar wealthier and more destructive.

The violence caused by the prohibition of drugs mostly impacts poor people who live far away from Ireland, which makes it easier for people to ignore it. It's disgiusting really. They're willing to let hundreds of thousands of innocent people die so that a few less people will overdose in Ireland.

Lockheed

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Been nearly 20 years now since I had any but used to be a demon for it. An eightball of "base" mixed with enough drink would keep us going all weekend. Smelled like cats piss, tasted like melted plastic. Was definitely a better value option though. Some of the best craic was finding new ways to take it/mask the smell and taste. A spoon in a cup of tea worked well.

Never touched speed but reading this reminded me of trainspotting where mark and spud took their speed over milkshakes!

I've had a little experience with cocaine but I don't really understand whats so great about it. I take SSRIs so my serotonin levels are already altered day-to-day, probably why it had no real effect on me. I was still quiet, antisocial and honestly wishing I was at home just like any other time I go out drinking! The lack of effect, price, and the fact that it is way too dangerous for someone like me too already taking serotonin-inhibiting drugs majorly put me off it. I work in the catering industry and have seen it **** many lives up. Just gives people a reason i suppose to keep working their dull day jobs, just a bit of a kick on a weekend (which then becomes the odd weekday, and then every day, and before you know it they are thousands in debt)
Weed made me stop caring about things I just wanted to sleep.
I know and am freinds with mutiple dealers and i could get my hands on any of it if i really wanted, but from my personal experiences its just a waste of money. I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of a trip to visit a gallery, a nice meal out after with a glass of wine, which is more or less the same price as a gram of coke (80euro thereabouts).

rapul

dasdog wrote: »

Speed is 15% of the price and does the opposite and can be used as a tool - cocaine is lazy, expensive and mind numbingly boring and moar.

This is bang on

bigpink

Lockheed wrote: »

Never touched speed but reading this reminded me of trainspotting where mark and spud took their speed over milkshakes!

I've had a little experience with cocaine but I don't really understand whats so great about it. I take SSRIs so my serotonin levels are already altered day-to-day, probably why it had no real effect on me. I was still quiet, antisocial and honestly wishing I was at home just like any other time I go out drinking! The lack of effect, price, and the fact that it is way too dangerous for someone like me too already taking serotonin-inhibiting drugs majorly put me off it. I work in the catering industry and have seen it **** many lives up. Just gives people a reason i suppose to keep working their dull day jobs, just a bit of a kick on a weekend (which then becomes the odd weekday, and then every day, and before you know it they are thousands in debt)
Weed made me stop caring about things I just wanted to sleep.
I know and am freinds with mutiple dealers and i could get my hands on any of it if i really wanted, but from my personal experiences its just a waste of money. I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of a trip to visit a gallery, a nice meal out after with a glass of wine, which is more or less the same price as a gram of coke (80euro thereabouts).

How do you know so many drug dealers?

Geuze

bigdaddymac wrote: »

Ok maybe I’m just not that clued in but everyone tells me it’s so easy to get Cocaine and other drugs.

I have never been offered cocaine.

None of my friends consume cocaine.

Pre-COVID, I visited pubs weekly, and never saw or heard about cocaine.

It may be that these drugs are used among a sub-class of people, e.g. Dublin D4 rugby lads, or some other group.

That may explain you and me never meeting these individuals.

Tomaldo

kippy wrote: »

Knock yourself out with some facts here:
https://www.hrb.ie/fileadmin/publications_files/Drugnet_32_-_Draft_5_-_as_signed_off.pdf
Point being made in the post you quoted is that we can barely handle our alcohol - how are we expected to handle far more potent drugs if legalised.

You don't have to HANDLE it, if I take coke it doesn't affect u in any way, if it's good enough 4 the Beatles, Stones and Diego Maradona, it's good enough 4 me. Being legal doesn't mean it's compulsory

Wanderer78

Geuze wrote:

It may be that these drugs are used among a sub-class of people, e.g. Dublin D4 rugby lads, or some other group.

Tis virtually everywhere unfortunately, sometimes you just need to know what to look out for, the types of behaviours that occurs around its uses, sometimes

GazzaL

Tomaldo wrote: »

I don't agree that people who support the War on Drugs are smart on this topic. I'm convinced they've been brainwashed by the prohibitionist propaganda which rarely, if ever, gets challenged by a compliant and incompetent media, always talking about the misery, suffering etc while ignoring the elephant in the room ENJOYMENT, that's the reason coke exists, nobody tricks or forces u to take it, over 99% of people who take it do NOT die from it and u have to be infinitely more dumb to support prohibition, when and where has it ever worked.

I know a guy who was surrounded by drugs and found it interesting that he doesn't really believe in addiction, he says most people use drugs to escape from something. Now I don't agree with him that there's no such thing as addiction, but there's a lot of truth about using drugs to escape, even amongst people from higher socio-economic backgrounds.

Motivator wrote: »

Two young guys I work with also live together and before we started to work from home they’d come in on a Monday morning looking like death warmed up. They’d have friends over on Fridays and Saturdays to drink cans, play fifa and take coke. They wouldn’t leave the house from when they get home on Friday evening after work until they leave Monday morning to go back to work. It made absolutely no sense to me. Some weeks they were absolute shells of themselves, just drifting through the days until it hit clocking off time on Friday evening again.

That sounds ****ing depressing.

GooglePlus

dartboardio wrote: »

Yeah it's crap compared to the rest of the world. And overpriced.

Maybe if you order stuff online you'd get a bit better quality.

This isn't true at all, you'll find that some of the best stuff in the world is here and some of the best stuff around Europe is only there thanks to a well known Irish gang. You don't think they'd share it back home?

Esho

Relikk wrote: »

Cocaine, the abuse of it and mainly having to deal with insufferable people on it would be one of the many reasons why I stopped working in the music/entertainment industry. It's endemic there.

Instant arshole .... just add coke!
Never had any time for people use it.

Tomaldo

Esho wrote: »

Instant arshole .... just add coke!
Never had any time for people use it.

I don't agree, I love listening to The Beatles and Rolling Stones, they took coke, Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger both made millions from their music, 'dated' the most beautiful women on this planet and received knighthoods.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Tomaldo wrote: »

You don't have to HANDLE it, if I take coke it doesn't affect u in any way, if it's good enough 4 the Beatles, Stones and Diego Maradona, it's good enough 4 me. Being legal doesn't mean it's compulsory

People with your attitude, this whole laissez faire approach, what you don't seem to realise is that laws prohibiting certain things in society are not just there to punish people. They are mostly there to protect people. And quite often protect people from themselves in many cases!

The vast majority of people who develop damaging problems with drugs, whether it be alcohol or whatever else, usually stumble into these substances in a very naive and innocent way. You think because you or your buddies can handle it fine (which is entirely subjective btw - you may very well have a problem that you don't yet recognise) that a free for all is the answer for all of society. I'm sorry but that attitude has been proven to be wrong on so many occasions in society - our history with alcohol being the most obvious example.

We don't have speed limits on roads, because nobody is capable of safely going faster than that limit... we have them because there are lots of people who unfortunately cannot, and will kill themselves or ruin other families from their mistakes. It's the same with dangerous drugs - a free for all will result in generations of people becoming a victim of their own mistakes.

And all so that YOU can freely take your drugs - "because I'm alright boss, no bother with me". Basically screw everyone else, I don't have a problem, so what's the problem? Head in the sand type nonsense!

It's hilarious that you highlight people like Diego Maradona as some kind of shining example of free and open drug taking in society. Maradona is on record, as saying that drugs have basically destroyed his life and many of his relationships. And if drugs had been less easily available, he would have been much less fcuked up! :rolleyes:

Perhaps you are enamoured by these famous drug users... you think they're really cool and inspirational or something. But in most cases, these famous people don't see their own drug use in that way.

The lead singer of soundgarden for example - Chris Cornell - who killed himself recently. He had life-long substance abuse problems. He was appalled at the idea that people saw his drug use as being "cool" or normalized/accepted.

When you create a free for all policy, you will lose a great number people in society who will be victims of themselves. Victims of their own natural weaknesses. This will include many brilliant intelligent and highly talented people. People who might have otherwise done amazing things in life, and perhaps even changed society in great ways!

kenmm

Geuze wrote: »

I have never been offered cocaine.

None of my friends consume cocaine.

Pre-COVID, I visited pubs weekly, and never saw or heard about cocaine.

It may be that these drugs are used among a sub-class of people, e.g. Dublin D4 rugby lads, or some other group.

That may explain you and me never meeting these individuals.

If you aren't looking, it's rare that you will be randomly offered it.
If you don't take it, no one in your peer groups or their peer groups will tell you.

I have been to many different types of pub over the years, it's hard to think of a time I haven't seen evidence of it taken. It's happening, you just might not know how to identify it.

ExMachina1000

Just order it online and the postman drops it through your letter box

Potential-Monke

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Are you sure people like musk are having no negative effects on society?

I personally think he's trying to improve society. He may be creating AI, which will probably eventually take over the human race, but any film where that happens, it's usually because of a human anyway so... Nobody is perfect. But he's done a lot more than me or you for society (imo).

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

You're talking about drug dealers, I'm talking about drug users...

...They are only thinking about the short term goal of getting rid of drug dealers/gangs.

That's a lot of guess work there. And completely wrong. Punishing the end user doesn't stop the problem, it only makes life harder for the end user. Look at drink driving, up to 4 years off the road, potential jail time, yet it still happens and a lot more often than you think. The long term goal of getting rid of street drug dealers is to remove the market from them, ie: legalisation. Users will always be found, for a myriad of reasons. Make the legal option cheaper, safer, people will stop going to the street dealers, much akin to how most people will buy their alcohol and tobacco products from a shop, but some still get it from the black market. You won't ever eliminate the black market, but you can massively reduce the income gangs make (in this country) from it.

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Haha. They're a young man's game. I'd say anyone still taking drugs beyond the age of 25 or so has a bit of a want in them, probably needs to see a phsych.

You apply the same to those who drink beyond 25? Or smoke tobacco? Or drink caffeine products, even tea? They're all drugs, just so happens they are legal. Or we just talking about the illegal ones?

listermint wrote: »

Says coke is fine. Gives you a pep in your step.

In the same post says he lost the use of the left hand side of his face.

I said it's fine in small amounts, and then gave an example of what happened when I took too much one night. I didn't like it either, but one doesn't know their limits unless they test them. That night, I took a stupid amount of coke (someone brought a **** tonne of it). Another night, the €50 worth I got was still half there the following morning.

I don't agree with the exploitation of the people who farm it, but it pays these really poor people a lot more than what the government in Bolivia, etc can pay for legal crops. The people who grow the plants choose it because it makes the most money, even if they get literal pennies from the end cost. But everyone in Ireland stopping taking coke will have little to no effect on the production of it. The states are one of the biggest consumers, and Albania, Canda, Chile, Australia, Iceland, France, Italy... They're some examples from the top 20 consuming countries. I don't have an answer to this, it won't go away and people won't stop using it, so the growers are kinda stuck growing it, or go hungry.

Motivator wrote: »

Two young guys I work with also live together and before we started to work from home they’d come in on a Monday morning looking like death warmed up. They’d have friends over on Fridays and Saturdays to drink cans, play fifa and take coke. They wouldn’t leave the house from when they get home on Friday evening after work until they leave Monday morning to go back to work. It made absolutely no sense to me. Some weeks they were absolute shells of themselves, just drifting through the days until it hit clocking off time on Friday evening again.

I just removed 3 words from that paragraph, and I know hundreds of people like this. Leave those 3 words in, and I know maybe 20 who fit the bill. And still, better than going out each night, drinking hundreds worth of alcohol, falling around the place 'having the laugh', obnoxiously order food, be racist to the taxi driver, puke somewhere and repeat every weekend. At least those lads are staying in and not making it anyone elses business. I've never arrested a stoned person, but I've arrested mainly drunk people. That alone speaks volumes to me.

Wanderer78

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I personally think he's trying to improve society. He may be creating AI, which will probably eventually take over the human race, but any film where that happens, it's usually because of a human anyway so... Nobody is perfect. But he's done a lot more than me or you for society (imo).

he may in fact be doing both, at the same time!

Tomaldo

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

People with your attitude, this whole laissez faire approach, what you don't seem to realise is that laws prohibiting certain things in society are not just there to punish people. They are mostly there to protect people. And quite often protect people from themselves in many cases!

The vast majority of people who develop damaging problems with drugs, whether it be alcohol or whatever else, usually stumble into these substances in a very naive and innocent way. You think because you or your buddies can handle it fine (which is entirely subjective btw - you may very well have a problem that you don't yet recognise) that a free for all is the answer for all of society. I'm sorry but that attitude has been proven to be wrong on so many occasions in society - our history with alcohol being the most obvious example.

We don't have speed limits on roads, because nobody is capable of safely going faster than that limit... we have them because there are lots of people who unfortunately cannot, and will kill themselves or ruin other families from their mistakes. It's the same with dangerous drugs - a free for all will result in generations of people becoming a victim of their own mistakes.

And all so that YOU can freely take your drugs - "because I'm alright boss, no bother with me". Basically screw everyone else, I don't have a problem, so what's the problem? Head in the sand type nonsense!

It's hilarious that you highlight people like Diego Maradona as some kind of shining example of free and open drug taking in society. Maradona is on record, as saying that drugs have basically destroyed his life and many of his relationships. And if drugs had been less easily available, he would have been much less fcuked up! :rolleyes:

Perhaps you are enamoured by these famous drug users... you think they're really cool and inspirational or something. But in most cases, these famous people don't see their own drug use in that way.

The lead singer of soundgarden for example - Chris Cornell - who killed himself recently. He had life-long substance abuse problems. He was appalled at the idea that people saw his drug use as being "cool" or normalized/accepted.

When you create a free for all policy, you will lose a great number people in society who will be victims of themselves. Victims of their own natural weaknesses. This will include many brilliant intelligent and highly talented people. People who might have otherwise done amazing things in life, and perhaps even changed society in great ways!

I totally agree with you on speed limits but nothing else. Prohibition didn't protect Katy French or Peaches Geldof, it caused their premature deaths. It didn't prevent Maradona from taking it, he is God in Argentina and elsewhere, everywhere he goes people want a selfie or autograph and according to Off the Ball he was paid 10,000 sterling per day by FIFA to be an ambassador at the last World Cup, not bad for a drug-taking loser. He said he would have been a better player if he hadn't taken drugs, if that was possible. He shouldn't be too hard on himself, he did better than most footballers, he's now older than that other soccer legend, George Best (RIP) and it wasn't cocaine that killed him.

Esho

Tomaldo wrote: »

I don't agree, I love listening to The Beatles and Rolling Stones, they took coke, Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger both made millions from their music, 'dated' the most beautiful women on this planet and received knighthoods.

They were artists- every human experience feeds into great artists work. They also took loads of acid and other drugs probably.

I'm thinking if people who bore the earoff you with their self obsessed, boring waffle

Wanderer78

Esho wrote: »

They were artists- every human experience feeds into great artists work. They also took loads of acid and other drugs probably.

I'm thinking if people who bore the earoff you with their self obsessed, boring waffle

both of these folks could potentially have the same or similar behaviors, we might just be putting some on a pedestal!

PowerToWait

Don’t use it myself, but I find the stereotype of the arrogant dick head talking shīte all night not to be true. Some of my mates use it after a few beers. This doesn’t have a deleterious effect on their personality or my interactions with them.

These types of stereotypes are often talked about by people who have no or little experience of people on various substances.

Cocaine is definitely very dubious from an ethical standpoint however.

Potential-Monke

Esho wrote: »

I'm thinking if people who bore the earoff you with their self obsessed, boring waffle

I apply this moreso to alcohol than anything else. And tea, but that's just because it's what gossipers drink (usually, coffee if you're more modern) and I fecking hate gossip. My drug of choice for years was alcohol, as it is for the vast majority. I eventually stopped at a turning point in my life where I got out of a job that was well paid and "respected" (by some people), got rid of the crippling mortgage by selling and taking the hit, stopped drinking and moved home. I now smoke weed. Used to smoke a helluva lot more, but lockdown has got me somewhat back to a lower usage.

I don't go drinking anymore, save for 2 weddings and a concert in the last 4 years. My drug of choice, weed, I can grow at home for little to nothing. I smoke while watching films, anime or playing games. I had a small circle of actual friends with similar interests (nearly all 10 years younger minimum, because my interests wouldn't be seen as accepted by the majority of late 30-somethings). With my drug of choice and legalisation, I can continue to not interfere with anyone elses life. While it's still illegal, I'm funding criminality and I really don't know what I'm getting. I will continue to smoke because it suits me, suits my lifestyle and if legal wouldn't harm anyone else. I think it's a massive benefit to my mental health, which was ravaged by drink and social expectations.

I can't speak for coke, because of the process to make it is still horrible and I don't know if a clean, "pure" version can be made which is safer (i'm not that interested in it tbh, used to only take it when I was drinking anyway, and only a little bump every hour to keep up with the raging alcoholics other drinkers). But weed should most definitely be legalised, controlled, sold safely in shops with a tax take. It's quite a chunk of change to be removed from the criminal element in Ireland, and would allow the Gardai to focus on the far more damaging gangs who deal drugs like heroin, meth (which thankfully hasn't really taken off here), etc.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Potential-Monke wrote: »

That's a lot of guess work there. And completely wrong. Punishing the end user doesn't stop the problem, it only makes life harder for the end user. Look at drink driving, up to 4 years off the road, potential jail time, yet it still happens and a lot more often than you think. The long term goal of getting rid of street drug dealers is to remove the market from them, ie: legalisation. Users will always be found, for a myriad of reasons. Make the legal option cheaper, safer, people will stop going to the street dealers, much akin to how most people will buy their alcohol and tobacco products from a shop, but some still get it from the black market. You won't ever eliminate the black market, but you can massively reduce the income gangs make (in this country) from it.

In the short term it complicates the life of the end user, correct, but over the longer term it de-incentivizes the behaviour and causes people to make different life choices. Which will ultimately shrink demand and result in the drug gangs (who only exist because of the demand) going elsewhere or abandoning drugs completely as they are not lucrative enough.

Your solution of getting rid of the drug dealers/gangs, does nothing to address the actual bigger problem of widespread drug use in society - (in fact it potentially exasperates it). It only takes away the victims of the dealers/gangs... but leaves the much larger and more hidden problem of people who are victims of their own poor choices with drugs - drugs you now want to make more socially acceptable and more easily obtained. Just look how well that worked out with alcohol.

Your argument against drink driving laws - is a non argument. It doesn't help/stop everyone? So what? That's not an argument. Of course laws won't help/stop everyone!

But the statistics show that cracking down hard on drink driving, and other offences like speeding with penalty points etc. Has actually worked overall. It's not perfect of course, and we all get frustrated with imperfect laws. But imperfect laws are not a valid argument against having any laws.

Alcohol prohibition didn't work in the US. Getting rid of prohibition, helped to get rid of dangerous criminals and bootleggers. But ending prohibition also did nothing to solve the problem of alcohol abuse in society... in fact alcohol problems got worse after prohibition ended. Plenty of US studies have shown this!

The fact that hardline prohibition didn't work, isn't an argument against having laws. It's an argument against how you implement laws and what type of laws you introduce.

You have to de-incentivize damaging behaviours in society with significant consequences. Appropriate laws are one of the best ways to accomplish this. But badly thought out laws, can sometimes be almost just as damaging - I do not deny that.

We don't need no laws - or a free for all policy. We need well thought out intelligent laws.

a very cool kid

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I apply this moreso to alcohol than anything else. And tea, but that's just because it's what gossipers drink (usually, coffee if you're more modern) and I fecking hate gossip. My drug of choice for years was alcohol, as it is for the vast majority. I eventually stopped at a turning point in my life where I got out of a job that was well paid and "respected" (by some people), got rid of the crippling mortgage by selling and taking the hit, stopped drinking and moved home. I now smoke weed. Used to smoke a helluva lot more, but lockdown has got me somewhat back to a lower usage.

I don't go drinking anymore, save for 2 weddings and a concert in the last 4 years. My drug of choice, weed, I can grow at home for little to nothing. I smoke while watching films, anime or playing games. I had a small circle of actual friends with similar interests (nearly all 10 years younger minimum, because my interests wouldn't be seen as accepted by the majority of late 30-somethings). With my drug of choice and legalisation, I can continue to not interfere with anyone elses life. While it's still illegal, I'm funding criminality and I really don't know what I'm getting. I will continue to smoke because it suits me, suits my lifestyle and if legal wouldn't harm anyone else. I think it's a massive benefit to my mental health, which was ravaged by drink and social expectations.

I can't speak for coke, because of the process to make it is still horrible and I don't know if a clean, "pure" version can be made which is safer (i'm not that interested in it tbh, used to only take it when I was drinking anyway, and only a little bump every hour to keep up with the raging alcoholics other drinkers). But weed should most definitely be legalised, controlled, sold safely in shops with a tax take. It's quite a chunk of change to be removed from the criminal element in Ireland, and would allow the Gardai to focus on the far more damaging gangs who deal drugs like heroin, meth (which thankfully hasn't really taken off here), etc.

Jaysus you're ticking a lot of boxes on the what makes someone a creep list!

begbysback

PowerToWait wrote: »

Cocaine is definitely very dubious from an ethical standpoint however.

The only reason cocaine is ethically questionable is because it’s illegal. That’s it, no other reason, the government has deemed it illegal. If it were legal then would it be dubious from an ethical standpoint?

kenmm

begbysback wrote: »

The only reason cocaine is ethically questionable is because it’s illegal. That’s it, no other reason, the government has deemed it illegal. If it were legal then would it be dubious from an ethical standpoint?

It's a very broad topic. Is it ethical to let everyone who wants to have a go at something so harmful? Is alcohol ethical?
I know the poster probably meant the ethics involved in the current supply chain, and that would largely be reduced if cocaine was produced legally, but ethically it would open up other questions.

begbysback

a very cool kid wrote: »

Jaysus you're ticking a lot of boxes on the what makes someone a creep list!

True, but in his favour the post does have paragraphs, double quotes, opened and closed brackets, strikethrough, periods and commas.

Impressive.

begbysback

kenmm wrote: »

It's a very broad topic. Is it ethical to let everyone who wants to have a go at something so harmful? Is alcohol ethical?
I know the poster probably meant the ethics involved in the current supply chain, and that would largely be reduced if cocaine was produced legally, but ethically it would open up other questions.

I don’t think they were commenting on the supply chain, seems to me that the context in the post is clearly that of consuming cocaine.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

begbysback wrote: »

The only reason cocaine is ethically questionable is because it’s illegal. That’s it, no other reason, the government has deemed it illegal. If it were legal then would it be dubious from an ethical standpoint?

Well that depends if you want the type of society that some people seem to be in favour of around here.

Let's say you're in construction, you and your buddy like to go out at the weekend and do some drugs. Nothing crazy, you like to have a good time - you're in control of course. (Like everyone is :rolleyes:) You both turn up on the site on monday morning after a great weekend. You're a brickie, you're a bit tired and bit clumsy. Takes you awhile and a couple of coffees to get going. Your mates are slagging you "you had a good weekend, eh? etc" You drop a few things - no big deal etc.

But your buddy, he's operating the crane... he's the same as you. A bit slow getting going - couple of coffees needed etc. The only problem is, if he's a bit clumsy early on the monday morning because of a great weekend with his completely legal drug habit, and he drops something... he might kill someone. And who is piss testing him before he jumps up into his crane?

Everyone does it - it's a normal part of life now.

And while you're slogging away at work, you're kids are busy making their way to school... but the nice lollipop lady that helps them across the road, she has started going out taking some coke and other drugs at the weekend. No big deal, it's only at the weekend. She doesn't need coke to get up in the morning... she is in control. But she has a momentary lapse in judgement/concentration while all those little kids are zipping around, because she's a bit slow getting going at 8:30am on a monday morning!

And your brother needs to go under anaesthetic for a minor surgery on monday morning too. Nothing major, it's a fairly routine operation. But the anaesthetist likes to go out on the weekend and do a few lines of coke too... he's not at his best first thing on a monday morning either. Sober yes, in control of his drug taking... of course, it's only on the weekends :rolleyes:... but just needs a few coffees to get into gear.

He's not doing anything illegal. Unethical? Not really, because drug taking is perfectly fine now so long as you are in control. Just like alcohol, it's a perfectly fine pastime in moderation, right?

And who decides if you are control? Nobody! It's all about personal responsibility in this great new progressive thinking society. And of course everyone knows how to gauge their own tolerance levels and levels of dependency, right? Because we have a great track record in society with this don't we? :pac:

A brave new world! It would be funny, if it wasn't so utterly moronic and disastrous to society.

I can guarantee you, the vast majority of people who say they are in favour open and legal drug use in society... they don't want the people they rely on everyday to be taking drugs at the weekend. They don't want their kids primary school teacher or playschool teacher to be sniffing coke at the weekends. They don't want the mechanic fixing the brakes on their car to be taking drugs at the weekend.

They want to do some lines at the weekend, and take zero responsibility or accountability for their actions - and for society to codify this practice by making it legal. And they want the people they rely on in society everyday, to be the complete opposite - reliable, straight-laced and responsible. No vices and squeaky clean!

It's two faced bullsh!t. Double standards and a total fcuking copout!

Cirrus Incus

Cocaine will **** you up a lot quicker than alcohol (both are terrible longterm). Coke can cause abnormal heart rhythms, coronary artery spasms, heart attacks, brain bleeds even in young healthy people. I'm in favour of some drugs being made legal, but not this one.

GooglePlus

Cirrus Incus wrote: »

Cocaine will **** you up a lot quicker than alcohol (both are terrible longterm). Coke can cause abnormal heart rhythms, coronary artery spasms, heart attacks, brain bleeds even in young healthy people. I'm in favour of some drugs being made legal, but not this one.

You've been brought up to believe that but it's been proven that alcohol is far more harmful that most illegal drugs in terms of both physical health and the effect on society.

I know it's a hard pill to swallow but alcohol is way worse than cocaine. I'm not saying cocaine is good for you, it's not but alcohol is much worse for the heart.

It being illegal means nothing.. alcohol just got in there first and embeded itself in society but if it was only discovered today, you could bet it would be illegal.

Have a look at the chart attached that came out of David Nutts substance research.

Open your eyes.. dude

kenmm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Well that depends if you want the type of society that some people seem to be in favour of around here.

Let's say you're in construction, you and your buddy like to go out at the weekend and do some drugs. Nothing crazy, you like to have a good time - you're in control of course. (Like everyone is :rolleyes:) You both turn up on the site on monday morning after a great weekend. You're a brickie, you're a bit tired and bit clumsy. Takes you awhile and a couple of coffees to get going. Your mates are slagging you "you had a good weekend, eh? etc" You drop a few things - no big deal etc.

But your buddy, he's operating the crane... he's the same as you. A bit slow getting going - couple of coffees needed etc. The only problem is, if he's a bit clumsy early on the monday morning because of a great weekend with his completely legal drug habit, and he drops something... he might kill someone. And who is piss testing him before he jumps up into his crane?

Everyone does it - it's a normal part of life now.

And while you're slogging away at work, you're kids are busy making their way to school... but the nice lollipop lady that helps them across the road, she has started going out taking some coke and other drugs at the weekend. No big deal, it's only at the weekend. She doesn't need coke to get up in the morning... she is in control. But she has a momentary lapse in judgement/concentration while all those little kids are zipping around, because she's a bit slow getting going at 8:30am on a monday morning!

And your brother needs to go under anaesthetic for a minor surgery on monday morning too. Nothing major, it's a fairly routine operation. But the anaesthetist likes to go out on the weekend and do a few lines of coke too... he's not at his best first thing on a monday morning either. Sober yes, in control of his drug taking... of course, it's only on the weekends :rolleyes:... but just needs a few coffees to get into gear.

He's not doing anything illegal. Unethical? Not really, because drug taking is perfectly fine now so long as you are in control. Just like alcohol, it's a perfectly fine pastime in moderation, right?

And who decides if you are control? Nobody! It's all about personal responsibility in this great new progressive thinking society. And of course everyone knows how to gauge their own tolerance levels and levels of dependency, right? Because we have a great track record in society with this don't we? :pac:

A brave new world! It would be funny, if it wasn't so utterly moronic and disastrous to society.

I can guarantee you, the vast majority of people who say they are in favour open and legal drug use in society... they don't want the people they rely on everyday to be taking drugs at the weekend. They don't want their kids primary school teacher or playschool teacher to be sniffing coke at the weekends. They don't want the mechanic fixing the brakes on their car to be taking drugs at the weekend.

They want to do some lines at the weekend, and take zero responsibility or accountability for their actions - and for society to codify this practice by making it legal. And they want the people they rely on in society everyday, to be the complete opposite - reliable, straight-laced and responsible. No vices and squeaky clean!

It's two faced bullsh!t. Double standards and a total fcuking copout!

There are a lot if assumptions there to be honest, no one is arguing to make it legal and for everyone to not give a Fu(k..

I don't think if anything was legalised it would also mean turning up to any of those jobs worse for wear would be acceptable or legal.

ExMachina1000

a very cool kid wrote: »

Jaysus you're ticking a lot of boxes on the what makes someone a creep list!

A creep? How so

Cirrus Incus

GooglePlus wrote: »

I know it's a hard pill to swallow but alcohol is way worse than cocaine. I'm not saying cocaine is good for you, it's not but alcohol is much worse for the heart.

I'm referring to the serious acute effects of cocaine, not chronic: Coronary artery vasospasm, myocardial infarction, intracerebral haemorrhgage.

Acute alcohol intoxicaiton will kill from respiratory depression, positional asphyxia, aspiration, hypothermia, trauma. All of these are much easier to prevent.

Alcohol will cause dilated cardiomyopathy longterm, but not from one night of too many pints.

GooglePlus

Cirrus Incus wrote: »

I'm referring to the serious acute effects of cocaine, not chronic: Coronary artery vasospasm, myocardial infarction, intracerebral haemorrhgage.

Acute alcohol intoxicaiton will kill from respiratory depression, positional asphyxia, aspiration, hypothermia, trauma. All of these are much easier to prevent.

Alcohol will cause dilated cardiomyopathy longterm, but not from one night of too many pints.

You're referring to the effects of an overdosed amount, too much of almost anything is bad for you. Go drink a litre of spirits and tell me how your body is doing. Like for like social dosage in mind and alcohol takes the prize.

I'm not taking away from the ill effects that cocaine brings, I'm just shedding light on the fact that alcohol does way more damage.

Cirrus Incus

GooglePlus wrote: »

You're referring to the effects of an overdosed amount, too much of almost anything is bad for you. Go drink a litre of spirits and tell me how your body is doing. Like for like social dosage in mind and alcohol takes the prize.

I'm not taking away from the ill effects that cocaine brings, I'm just shedding light on the fact that alcohol does way more damage.

Read my original post. Where did I say that cocaine is worse longterm? I didn't.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

kenmm wrote: »

There are a lot if assumptions there to be honest, no one is arguing to make it legal and for everyone to not give a Fu(k..

I don't think if anything was legalised it would also mean turning up to any of those jobs worse for wear would be acceptable or legal.

But who decides what is worse for wear? I'm not talking about people turning up for work off their face or needing drugs to get out of bed in the morning.

You don't need to be that bad in order to be a liability in your job. Just taking drugs most weekends, is enough to potentially make you underperform on a monday morning. Some jobs that doesn't really matter, and you can be less than 100% and nothing bad will happen. But some jobs you could literally kill someone!

A big part of people's argument for legalizing these drugs, is that most people don't have a problem and are in control. So why criminalize their healthy pastime?

Why control their behaviour in any way. Leave them completely to their own judgement.

It's bullsh!t.

Most people who drink alcohol and/or take drugs, consider themselves to be in control. But they are very rarely the best person to judge that. And they should never be the only judge either way.

Leaving everything down to personal judgement, is a disaster waiting to happen. You need controls in society, otherwise things can get out of hand very quickly!

GooglePlus

Cirrus Incus wrote: »

Read my original post. Where did I say that cocaine is worse longterm? I didn't.

It's about dosage. You can't say cocaine is worse short term and state the effects of a severe overdose as your basis. Most people aren't hoovering the stuff, they're not that well off.

A social dosage of each and alcohol would do more harm. People think so little of the effects of alcohol that they'd happily get a load of pints and spirits into them in one sitting. The hangover the next day is clear sign of the toll taken by the body.

kenmm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But who decides what is worse for wear? I'm not talking about people turning up for work off their face or needing drugs to get out of bed in the morning.

You don't need to be that bad in order to be a liability in your job. Just taking drugs most weekends, is enough to potentially make you underperform on a monday morning. Some jobs that doesn't really matter, and you can be less than 100% and nothing bad will happen. But some jobs you could literally kill someone!

A big part of people's argument for legalizing these drugs, is that most people don't have a problem and are in control. So why criminalize their healthy pastime?

Why control their behaviour in any way. Leave them completely to their own judgement.

It's bullsh!t.

Most people who drink alcohol and/or take drugs, consider themselves to be in control. But they are very rarely the best person to judge that. And they should never be the only judge either way.

Leaving everything down to personal judgement, is a disaster waiting to happen. You need controls in society, otherwise things can get out of hand very quickly!

It's an interesting point and it's also very hypothetical, but for me if legalisation were to occur, there would need to be many items of public safety and education to be addressed.

Making cocaine or other drugs suddenly legal wouldn't work (imagine getting pure coke after years of Irish cut sh!te!). Education for all sorts including that situation would be needed. Limits for driving would need to be set. Harm reduction programs would need set up, support for those at risk, ways to classify strength of drugs so people know what they are buying etc.

There is no appetite at all to spend what is needed..

Ted_YNWA

posts deleted, re-reg trolling.

Don't engage with them.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cocaine is only everywhere if you know where to get it or think ever drug user is an addicted homeless waster outside the GPO

begbysback

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Well that depends if you want the type of society that some people seem to be in favour of around here.

Let's say you're in construction, you and your buddy like to go out at the weekend and do some drugs. Nothing crazy, you like to have a good time - you're in control of course. (Like everyone is :rolleyes:) You both turn up on the site on monday morning after a great weekend. You're a brickie, you're a bit tired and bit clumsy. Takes you awhile and a couple of coffees to get going. Your mates are slagging you "you had a good weekend, eh? etc" You drop a few things - no big deal etc.

But your buddy, he's operating the crane... he's the same as you. A bit slow getting going - couple of coffees needed etc. The only problem is, if he's a bit clumsy early on the monday morning because of a great weekend with his completely legal drug habit, and he drops something... he might kill someone. And who is piss testing him before he jumps up into his crane?

Everyone does it - it's a normal part of life now.

And while you're slogging away at work, you're kids are busy making their way to school... but the nice lollipop lady that helps them across the road, she has started going out taking some coke and other drugs at the weekend. No big deal, it's only at the weekend. She doesn't need coke to get up in the morning... she is in control. But she has a momentary lapse in judgement/concentration while all those little kids are zipping around, because she's a bit slow getting going at 8:30am on a monday morning!

And your brother needs to go under anaesthetic for a minor surgery on monday morning too. Nothing major, it's a fairly routine operation. But the anaesthetist likes to go out on the weekend and do a few lines of coke too... he's not at his best first thing on a monday morning either. Sober yes, in control of his drug taking... of course, it's only on the weekends :rolleyes:... but just needs a few coffees to get into gear.

He's not doing anything illegal. Unethical? Not really, because drug taking is perfectly fine now so long as you are in control. Just like alcohol, it's a perfectly fine pastime in moderation, right?

And who decides if you are control? Nobody! It's all about personal responsibility in this great new progressive thinking society. And of course everyone knows how to gauge their own tolerance levels and levels of dependency, right? Because we have a great track record in society with this don't we? :pac:

A brave new world! It would be funny, if it wasn't so utterly moronic and disastrous to society.

I can guarantee you, the vast majority of people who say they are in favour open and legal drug use in society... they don't want the people they rely on everyday to be taking drugs at the weekend. They don't want their kids primary school teacher or playschool teacher to be sniffing coke at the weekends. They don't want the mechanic fixing the brakes on their car to be taking drugs at the weekend.

They want to do some lines at the weekend, and take zero responsibility or accountability for their actions - and for society to codify this practice by making it legal. And they want the people they rely on in society everyday, to be the complete opposite - reliable, straight-laced and responsible. No vices and squeaky clean!

It's two faced bullsh!t. Double standards and a total fcuking copout!

You seem to have put a lot of effort into that post, rather unnecessarily, you see the brickies already turn up Monday still affected from the weekend, that’s if they turn up at all, and the person administering the anaesthetic, or the surgeon for that matter, aren’t choosing not to take cocaine because it’s illegal.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

begbysback wrote: »

You seem to have put a lot of effort into that post, rather unnecessarily, you see the brickies already turn up Monday still affected from the weekend, that’s if they turn up at all, and the person administering the anaesthetic, or the surgeon for that matter, aren’t choosing not to take cocaine because it’s illegal.

But if the crane driver kills someone, and they find illegal drugs in his system what happens to him currently? They'll nail him to the wall.

If cocaine is legal, what happens to him? How long do these drugs stay in your system for? Much longer than alcohol in many cases.

It just seems totally unworkable when you really think about it on a practical level. Those are only a few professions I thought up off the top of my head - you could think of dozens and dozens more!

If these drugs are legal, why shouldn't the medical professionals have their fun at the weekend too? They work hard during the week... let them have their coke at the strip club too!

I thought you guys wanted these drugs to be legal? Oh, but not for the surgeon operating on you, right? And not for anyone else who you rely on to do their job to high standard on a monday morning... (Which basically means most of society in reality)

People have not thought through the full ramifications of legalizing all these drugs. You would be opening a giant big can off worms, with new problems that will crop up every year. It's a minefield of headaches - nothing like the overly simplistic utopian vision that many delusional potheads have cooked up in their brains!

begbysback

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But if the crane driver kills someone, and they find illegal drugs in his system what happens to him currently? They'll nail him to the wall.

If cocaine is legal, what happens to him? How long do these drugs stay in your system for? Much longer than alcohol in many cases.

It just seems totally unworkable when you really think about it on a practical level. Those are only a few professions I thought up off the top of my head - you could think of dozens and dozens more!

If these drugs are legal, why shouldn't the medical professionals have their fun at the weekend too? They work hard during the week... let them have their coke at the strip club too!

I thought you guys wanted these drugs to be legal? Oh, but not for the surgeon operating on you, right? And not for anyone else who you rely on to do their job to high standard on a monday morning... (Which basically means most of society in reality)

People have not thought through the full ramifications of legalizing all these drugs. You would be opening a giant big can off worms, with new problems that will crop up every year. It's a minefield of headaches - nothing like the overly simplistic utopian vision that many delusional potheads have cooked up in their brains!

You seem fairly naive, you think because they are now legal then everybody will then go out and score? You are living in fantasy land if you believe that anyone who wants to take drugs isn’t already taking them.

PowerToWait

begbysback wrote: »

The only reason cocaine is ethically questionable is because it’s illegal. That’s it, no other reason, the government has deemed it illegal. If it were legal then would it be dubious from an ethical standpoint?

Preaching to the choir here. Problem is it is illegal and is likely to remain so for a long time. As such it's ethically dubious tstl.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

begbysback wrote: »

You seem fairly naive, you think because they are now legal then everybody will then go out and score? You are living in fantasy land if you believe that anyone who wants to take drugs isn’t already taking them.

I'm not naive, that is reality baby!

If you make something legal, that will be a green light for many people to take it... The vast majority of people in society are law abiding and laws do actually stop most people from doing potentially destructive things!

I never said everybody will take these drugs. But many will.

You haven't answered my questions? If these drugs are legal, why should certain people be stopped from having their fun at the weekend, just like you?

Why should the hard working surgeon or doctor not be allowed to unwind at the weekend with some hard drugs, if that's what they want to do?

Are you saying you only want them legalized for you and your buddies? But not for all those other hard working professionals out in society? lol

begbysback

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I'm not naive, that is reality baby!

If you make something legal, that will be a green light for many people to take it... The vast majority of people in society are law abiding and laws do actually stop most people from doing potentially destructive things!

I never said everybody will take these drugs. But many will.

You haven't answered my questions? If these drugs are legal, why should certain people be stopped from having their fun at the weekend, just like you?

Why should the hard working surgeon or doctor not be allowed to unwind at the weekend with some hard drugs, if that's what they want to do?

Are you saying you only want them legalized for you and your buddies? But not for all those other hard working professionals out in society? lol

I’m not sure you’re getting it, I don’t take drugs, don’t drink either, if I wanted to I would, legal or not. You seem to think that if cocaine was made legal tomorrow then everyone would be out scoring, they wouldn’t, why? because they don’t want to - you are very naive if you think otherwise, like everyone sits at home waiting for the government to say what they can and can’t take, seriously is that what you think?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

begbysback wrote: »

I’m not sure you’re getting it, I don’t take drugs, don’t drink either, if I wanted to I would, legal or not. You seem to think that if cocaine was made legal tomorrow then everyone would be out scoring, they wouldn’t, why? because they don’t want to - you are very naive if you think otherwise, like everyone sits at home waiting for the government to say what they can and can’t take, seriously is that what you think?

Like I already said, I don't believe EVERYONE will take these drugs if you made them legal.

But I do think many more people will use them than currently, because when you make something legal and easy to obtain - that is a natural consequence. Just like we see with alcohol.

You didn't answer my previous questions. Hypothetically, if a doctor wants to take coke at the weekends, and it's completely legal... should we stop them?

And what about all the other professions?

Should we make a list of professions to prohibit? (That list will start to get pretty big very quickly;))

Whether you like it or not, these issues will crop up in courts if/when you legalize those drugs! That's just a fact of life.

begbysback

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Like I already said, I don't believe EVERYONE will take these drugs if you made them legal.

But I do think many more people will use them than currently, because when you make something legal and easy to obtain - that is a natural consequence. Just like we see with alcohol.

You didn't answer my previous questions. Hypothetically, if a doctor wants to take coke at the weekends, and it's completely legal... should we stop them?

And what about all the other professions?

Should we make a list of professions to prohibit? (That list will start to get pretty big very quickly;))

Whether you like it or not, these issues will crop up in courts if/when you legalize those drugs! That's just a fact of life.

If that’s what the doctor wants then yes, same as if he drinks too much or goes into work drunk, no difference, there are already requirements for work practices in place today for such roles.

kenmm

begbysback wrote: »

If that’s what the doctor wants then yes, same as if he drinks too much or goes into work drunk, no difference, there are already requirements for work practices in place today for such roles.

Yeah look, if you are a Dr, driver, whatever then you know you can't go to work half from cut the night before. If drug whatever was made legal tomorrow, then it would be regulated which means working out safe limits to have in your system for consumption, driving etc. Anyone exceeding these would be done (as is the case now).