How America Went Nuts

Plode

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind/534231/

It's a long read, but well worth it.

"The American experiment has metastasized out of control. Being American now means we can believe anything we want."

biko

A good way to get the feel of an article is to read the last paragraph first.

This one is:

And fight the good fight in the public sphere. One main task, of course, is to contain the worst tendencies of Trumpism, and cut off its political-economic fuel supply, so that fantasy and lies don’t turn it into something much worse than just nasty, oafish, reality-show pseudo-conservatism. Progress is not inevitable, but it’s not impossible, either.

There, I saved everyone some time to do something more productive with their day.

ancapailldorcha

I highly recommend Kurt Anderson's Fantasyland for anyone interested in how America has gone insane. The article looks quite good. I'll give it a read now.

biko wrote: »

There, I saved everyone some time to do something more productive with their day.

Of course. Can't have dear leader and the party being questioned, now can we?

Dempo1

America has long been a tinderbox, I lived and worked in baltimore, maryland 2006/2009. Even back then it was obvious looking from outside in, racial, economic & societal tensions were simmering. Racial segregation (mainly out of choice) was the norm with clear and absolute Black and white areas. The economic segregation was also beyond appalling and to this day I've never seen such contrasts in wealth an abject poverty ( I've been to 3rd World countries) and the poverty I witnessed in one of America" s largest cities was shocking, particularly homelessness. Socially its a very segregated country also, extremely materialistic, its all about what and how much you have and you never, ever want to fall on hard times.

Trump was never to answer but I can see how such a lunatic could get elected and what's scary, he coukd get reelected. Americans, thankfully have very limited memory & loyalty so it may actually just be their shallowness and "me first mentality" that will oust Trump, not because they are horrified but because they just might be affected by his horrendous stupidity.

In reality its not actually Trump who's caused such a collapse of American society, its actually sensible and pragmatic presidents, Clinton, Obama, maybe Bush Senior who failed to see were American society was going.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

The current situation in the US reminds me of "La Violencia", the civil war that killed about 200'000 Colombians in the mid twentieth century. Two parties had long held power, and ordinary people largely identify with those parties, which have become more polarized in recent years.

AllForIt

Imo, there are agents in the US who are set about causing permanent civil unrest. They'll use racism or any other social issue to do it.

I think if the US has a better social welfare system, a bit more socialist minded, a bit mind, the US wouldn't be in the state it is in atm. A better social health care system and better general social welfare, helping people to get out of the property trap they are in through education etc.

White ppl suffer as much as black ppl in this regard. And frankly I don't see much from either the Democrats or the Republicans to ever sort out their social problems. Both are as crap as each other even thought it's perceived the Dems are the good ones.

Apart from Obamacare, what did he ever deliver in respect of 'change'. He never argued much against gun control and when he did, I always though it was all talk. At least Trump, rightly or wrongly, is trying to bring manufacturing back to the US. Factory work that will benefit the lower social classes because it's largely unskilled work. At least that's a start.

Plode

AllForIt wrote: »

At least Trump, rightly or wrongly, is trying to bring manufacturing back to the US. Factory work that will benefit the lower social classes because it's largely unskilled work. At least that's a start.

Trump is slipstreaming on the back of those issues, I think. I still wouldn't trust him if I were a working class voter. Anyone who promises great times for everyone is suspect, in my view.

Donald Trump

#MAGA

begbysback

A country originating from genocide, where military grade weapons are the norm, sun hot enough in places to make a man crazy, where the largest using population of cocaine resides yet prescription addicts vastly outnumber non prescription addicts, where mental health issues seem rampant, and where the objective of political parties and the voting public seems to be to provide as much entertainment to the rest of the world as possible.

It’s a fcukin mystery how it’s falling apart.

Montage of Feck

We shouldn't be so smug!

"The Irish experiment has metastasized out of control. Being Irish now means we believe we can have anything we want."

begbysback

Montage of Feck wrote: »

We shouldn't be so smug!

"The Irish experiment has metastasized out of control. Being Irish now means we believe we can have anything we want."

We can, as long as we pay more than it’s worth.

When you allow, validate, and protect every extreme thought and behavior, it's hardly a surprise that eventually society starts to break down. The US has always embraced the extreme end of things. Unfortunately, that's spreading to the rest of the Western world.

OU812

America is on the brink of a 2nd civil war. Trump is laying the groundwork now in the event of his (probable) loss in this year’s election, for the local militias to band together.

If he does lose, there’ll be major riots, shootings, lawlessness and localised uprisings. He’s given them all the belief that the election will be “rigged” and that he won’t respect the result and neither should they.

ExMachina1000

OU812 wrote: »

America is on the brink of a 2nd civil war. Trump is laying the groundwork now in the event of his (probable) loss in this year’s election, for the local militias to band together.

If he does lose, there’ll be major riots, shootings, lawlessness and localised uprisings. He’s given them all the belief that the election will be “rigged” and that he won’t respect the result and neither should they.

The riots are going on now. Buildings are being burned.

It's not Trump supporters doing it either

Phoebas

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The riots are going on now. Buildings are being burned.

It's not Trump supporters doing it either

I don't know about that. Kyle Rittenhouse is certainly a Trump supporter.

suicide_circus

Look, Kamala "Tupac" Harris will win in November and bring in a new dawn of social justice and racial harmony.

Harry Palmr

Short "hot take" (bleugh!)

You've got competing classes at the bottom of the pile - Blacks and working class whites. Many of both cohorts are poorly educated and mired in social strife. The new anti-establishment establishment is happy to see them at war with one another as they escape with all the loot.

Sand

The more diverse the USA gets, the more politically divided and violent it appears to get. No one could have predicted this.

briany

OU812 wrote: »

America is on the brink of a 2nd civil war.

And some of its combatants could be outcast men sporting hawaaiian shirts and waxed moustaches.

suicide_circus

Sand wrote: »

The more diverse the USA gets, the more politically divided and violent it appears to get. No one could have predicted this.

Nonsense, Diversity is Strength.

Sand

suicide_circus wrote: »

Nonsense, Diversity is Strength.

War is peace. Slavery is Freedom. Ignorance is Strength.

ExMachina1000

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't know about that. Kyle Rittenhouse is certainly a Trump supporter.

That covers one incident in one night. I believe the protests/riots have been going on 4 or 5 months

Manach

Historically the US had gone through phases of disorder over contenious social issues - eg 1850s over slavery and 1960s over social mores/civil rights. The current disturbances have both precedence and perhaps made worse by the seeming inability for the opposiing party to accept their defeat in 2016 to Trump. That their speaker Nanci Pelosi has labelled Republicans as a Domestic threat is moving this turbulance into a new level.
As well, no country is immune to this level of civil discourse, btw know as "Statis" in Ancient Greece, and the levels of distaste between the various groups in Ireland is a harbinger of times to come.

Phoebas

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

That covers one incident in one night. I believe the protests/riots have been going on 4 or 5 months

A very serious 'incident' you'd agree? And not an isolated one either.

suicide_circus

When Trump loses his supporters can engage in legitimate peaceful protests involving burning buildings, looting and setting up autonomous zones. Of course, under the Democrats, the police will not intervene in any of it.

briany

suicide_circus wrote: »

Look, Kamala "Tupac" Harris will win in November and bring in a new dawn of social justice and racial harmony.

There has been an internal memo circulating among Republican strategists which gives a very short summation of the aims for the 20-24 term, simply reading, "Good faith governance. No more racism.", but it had to be recalled due to a couple of key punctuation errors...

Donald Trump

suicide_circus wrote: »

Look, Kamala "Tupac" Harris will win in November and bring in a new dawn of social justice and racial harmony.

Only God Can Judge Her

Dyr

For a civil war, the levels of violence are strangely low and mostly consists of one side going bat**** insane and wrecking its own cities.


Mostly its just Trumps presidency has caused a lot of his opponents to lose their minds, I'd imagine the average American is sick of them at this stage

ExMachina1000

Phoebas wrote: »

A very serious 'incident' you'd agree? And not an isolated one either.

A very serious incident indeed and is being reported on heavily and rightly so.

Pity we don't see the destruction, rhetoric and violence from the other side shown so widely too. One lovely man was up on stage talking about "sending police officers to the grave" and "burning down the white house ". The police union building was yet again set on fire. Pity we dont see that reported in the media too isnt it.
For a fair picture

briany

The possibility of a 2nd civil war is indeed very low. There are extremist nutters on both sides who would like to fight each other, but I don't know if they even have the ability to formally organise amongst themselves, or are more just an unstable patchwork of alliances.

I can imagine right-wing militias would describe their battles with antifa or federal agents as a 'civil war', but it would hardly be the Battle of Gettysburg, would it? :pac: More like the Shootout at the Dairyqueen.

Harry Palmr

OU812 wrote: »

America is on the brink of a 2nd civil war. Trump is laying the groundwork now in the event of his (probable) loss in this year’s election, for the local militias to band together.

If he does lose, there’ll be major riots, shootings, lawlessness and localised uprisings. He’s given them all the belief that the election will be “rigged” and that he won’t respect the result and neither should they.

The postal vote is going to be important - it might look as if Trump has won on the night but then could lose as the postal votes are counted and made known. That could take a few days and if it's a tight result as Trump loses you can be sure they'll be mayhem as Fox and Friends, Tucker et al lay the groundwork for riots with talk of a stolen election.