Should people who dont follow guidelines lose their jobs/welfare

Uriel.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fair play

sadly some people are extremely unaware of the dangers of the virus, ive seen this myself in the autism community, id imagine others, with other complex issues are similar

So all scroungers have autism now? FFS some people will go the lengths to defend, the thankfully, minority of low life leeches in the State.

Like anything, and this goes well beyond covid, we should limit the money for nothing approach. Turn welfare from support to incentive.

For those who can work but don't for whatever reason, their weekly payment should be tied to community style service. For family carers, pay them more and support them more but have full proper checks and balances including mandatory training.

In covid land, let all the pubs reopen ASAP but put in place minimum mandatory requirements and police them fully and inspect very regularly. Not by the gardaí but by health safety inspectors. Have an escalation process. 1st breach immediate, 24 hour closure order, 2nd Breach weekend closure order, third 1 week, 4th 1 month, 5th, 3 months etc. X months without any breach, have step back system (eg you're on 2 breaches, step back to 1).

It's time we started shifting responsibility, leave things in people's own hands but have proper oversight and compliance systems in place and use them. Then if people lose money or lose business more of it is on their own heads.

Wanderer78

Uriel. wrote: »

So all scroungers have autism now? FFS some people will go the lengths to defend, the thankfully, minority of low life leeches in the State.

Like anything, and this goes well beyond covid, we should limit the money for nothing approach. Turn welfare from support to incentive.

For those who can work but don't for whatever reason, their weekly payment should be tied to community style service. For family carers, pay them more and support them more but have full proper checks and balances including mandatory training.

In covid land, let all the pubs reopen ASAP but put in place minimum mandatory requirements and police them fully and inspect very regularly. Not by the gardaí but by health safety inspectors. Have an escalation process. 1st breach immediate, 24 hour closure order, 2nd Breach weekend closure order, third 1 week, 4th 1 month, 5th, 3 months etc. X months without any breach, have step back system (eg you're on 2 breaches, step back to 1).

It's time we started shifting responsibility, leave things in people's own hands but have proper oversight and compliance systems in place and use them. Then if people lose money or lose business more of it is on their own heads.

what????

Mrs OBumble

Pkiernan wrote: »

I brought the kids on the Dart into the Natural History Museum.

Unfortunately some utter filth boarded at Killester with no masks, generally acting the maggot.
What should their punishment be?

Otherwise decent people are getting fired, dirtbags face no consequences, and these animals are more likely to have Covid!

For all you know, they have a disability which means they are recommended not to mask.

But that's irrelevant. At the moment, public transport is only supposed to be used for journeys which are "absolutely necessary". You shouldn't have been there for a totally unnecessary jaunt to the museum. You should be fined as much as the non mask-wearer..

Do people who lose their jobs also lose their forthcoming welfare, or are they just relegated to welfare first, followed by loss of welfare for any further transgressions?

The half-witted nonsense that right wingers come up with never fails to amuse me.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people who lose their jobs also lose their forthcoming welfare, or are they just relegated to welfare first, followed by loss of welfare for any further transgressions?

The half-witted nonsense that right wingers come up with never fails to amuse me.

...and i thought i come up with some weird sh1t, being a lefty!

smellyoldboot

"And number two
You have the right to food money
Providing of course
You don't mind a little
Investigation, humiliation
And if you cross your fingers
Rehabilitation"

Mongfinder General

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im sure it would cost the tax payer little or nothing to do all that!

What? Hiring thousands of enforcement agents costs nothing?

owlbethere

If people are jot following the guidelines and they are on jobseekers allowance, they do have a risk of picking up the virus if they are not following the guidelines. No one knows what way your body is going to react to the virus, whether you will get a mild dose, or become ill for some weeks, or develop long haul covid, or require hospital care. To be on jobseekers, someone has to be seeking and available for work. If someone is not following the guidelines and they become unwell, they do have a high chance of losing the jobseekers allowance.

It's best to follow the guidelines and minimise risks of catching covid.

paw patrol

yes we should interfere (and possibly ruin) the lives of those who won't do as there told.
then we can point at china and scold the CCP for being - see you next tues.


I posted this before , but i'll say it again.



covid19 has exposed an insidious side to irish society. A weird perversion in trying to punish those that don't agree with the man on the telly.

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Definitely, humans who are forced to change their ways by poverty, always behave rationally, and change their behaviours accordingly!

its regrettable that you believe people are incapable of showing responsibility due to their potential " low " means

i think at times like this we must expect and demand more of everyone

Wanderer78

Mongfinder General wrote: »

What? Hiring thousands of enforcement agents costs nothing?

exactly!

owlbethere wrote: »

If people are jot following the guidelines and they are on jobseekers allowance, they do have a risk of picking up the virus if they are not following the guidelines. No one knows what way your body is going to react to the virus, whether you will get a mild dose, or become ill for some weeks, or develop long haul covid, or require hospital care. To be on jobseekers, someone has to be seeking and available for work. If someone is not following the guidelines and they become unwell, they do have a high chance of losing the jobseekers allowance.

It's best to follow the guidelines and minimise risks of catching covid.

to be honest, if you end up in icu from covid, whether your on the dole or the wealthiest person on the planet, i suspect you wont be giving a fcuk of your financial situation

Mad_maxx wrote: »

its regrettable that you believe people are incapable of showing responsibility due to their potential " low " means

i think at times like this we must expect and demand more of everyone

you can expect all you want, sometimes people dont really understand the dangers and/or give a fcuk

ThunbergsAreGo

No, we need to stop these curtain twitching witch hunts

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

And incarceration is the cheaper option?

What does the cost have to do with it?

It's cheaper for society to let O'Reilly out to work, should we?

I certainly think there should be penalties but the idea that someone that works gets punished more, nope.

Equality in law, equality in life.

Wanderer78

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What does the cost have to do with it?

It's cheaper for society to let O'Reilly out to work, should we?

if we start locking up a sh1te load of people, i suspect many taxpayers are gonna be concerned about the potential increase in their taxes, in order to facilitate these actions

begbysback

Pkiernan wrote: »

With all the virtue signalling, everyone in the public eye who doesnt follow guidleines is losing their jobs.

Should this be extended to people on low profile normal jobs?
What about the lowlifes you see on the Dart not wearing masks? By the same logic they should be losing their dole money?

Phil Hogan may be a jackass, but its a big loss to Ireland, and his behaviour is no worse then huge swathes of our population.

Is it a case that successful people should know better than us common folk?

People should lose their jobs for virtue signalling

no.8

Wanderer78 wrote:

no clue, but maybe it would be a good idea if we started by not calling them 'lowlifes'!

Awww the poor babies

Wanderer78

no.8 wrote: »

Awww the poor babies

or we could continue to ridicule them, im sure it ll cause change!:rolleyes:

smellyoldboot

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What does the cost have to do with it?

It's cheaper for society to let O'Reilly out to work, should we?

In some ways we only pay welfare because it's cheaper than maintaining an even larger prison system and police force. The cost of peace. It doesn't deter all crime but prevents a good deal of crimes of desperation that would otherwise be rampant. There's plenty scamming it/taking advantage and even some we pay for who you'd happily see starve but in a more harsh environment these types would be more desperate and likely more violent so to a certain degree you have to just hold your nose and get on with it.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

In some ways we only pay welfare because it's cheaper than maintaining an even larger prison system and police force. The cost of peace. It doesn't deter all crime but prevents a good deal of crimes of desperation that would otherwise be rampant. There's plenty scamming it/taking advantage and even some we pay for who you'd happily see starve but in a more harsh environment these types would be more desperate and likely more violent so to a certain degree you have to just hold your nose and get on with it.

or are those doing so, doing so, in order to survive?

Mrs OBumble

paw patrol wrote: »

covid19 has exposed an insidious side to irish society. A weird perversion in trying to punish those that don't agree with the man on the telly.

Its always been there in plain sight.

How do you think Industrial schools and Magdalene laundries survived.

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

or are those doing so, doing so, in order to survive?

I doubt it. I lived on the Dole for a while during the recession and got BTEA while studying in college. I also briefly spent a period between jobs in the UK on their Dole. Our welfare system is generous and you have enough to feed, clothe yourself without suffering degradation imo. Far better than that offered by our neighbours. I also think we do a lot better with social mobility here. IF you get off your arse and take the first steps yourself.

It's a lazy/distorted mind who sees their route to greater riches as better served by a welfare scam, than through work/education. It's greed in fairness, not surviving, a perfectly normal human drive in itself, but let's not call it something more palatable in order to, what glean sympathy? for what is essentially selfish behaviour.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

I doubt it. I lived on the Dole for a while during the recession and got BTEA while studying in college. I also briefly spent a period between jobs in the UK on their Dole. Our welfare system is generous and you have enough to feed, clothe yourself without suffering degradation imo. Far better than that offered by our neighbours. I also think we do a lot better with social mobility here. IF you get off your arse and take the first steps yourself.

It's a lazy/distorted mind who sees their route to greater riches as better served by a welfare scam, than through work/education. It's greed in fairness, not surviving, a perfectly normal human drive in itself, but let's not call it something more palatable in order to, what glean sympathy? for what is essentially selfish behaviour.

are you sure of this, maybe we move in different circles, because this isnt exactly what ive experienced? i have seen some seriously struggle on the dole, sometimes leading to complex mental health issues, or exasperating pre-exisiting mental health issues

disagree strongly here, its a more troubled mind, that requires a lot of the time, serious professional help, in order to deal with it, imho and experience

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are you sure of this, maybe we move in different circles, because this isnt exactly what ive experienced? i have seen some seriously struggle on the dole, sometimes leading to complex mental health issues, or exasperating pre-exisiting mental health issues

disagree strongly here, its a more troubled mind, that requires a lot of the time, serious professional help, in order to deal with it, imho and experience

You can lead a horse to water: which is what we try to do with welfare, work activation measure, free access to education etc, but making them drink is another story for a small but stubborn percentage. The professional help you suggest would in a lot of cases require active intervention by the state as we both know the type of person in question isn't known to seek out help themselves. A lofty dream but the cost would be astronomical.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

You can lead a horse to water: which is what we try to do with welfare, work activation measure, free access to education etc, but making them drink is another story for a small but stubborn percentage. The professional help you suggest would in a lot of cases require active intervention by the state as we both know the type of person in question isn't known to seek out help themselves. A lofty dream but the cost would be astronomical.

so if a large proportion of these individuals may have some combination of complex disorders and issues, introducing little or no changes to our approach will solve the issue by........

edjkdkjdhjkd

This is turning into 1984 by the minute

Sleeper12

Pkiernan wrote:

With all the virtue signalling, everyone in the public eye who doesnt follow guidleines is losing their jobs.

Pkiernan wrote:

Phil Hogan may be a jackass, but its a big loss to Ireland, and his behaviour is no worse then huge swathes of our population.

Phil Hogan resigned because his boss was about to remove him. This wasn't because he broke guidelines. He was about to be sacked for lying to his boss. He deliberately gave false information to her. All trust was lost and this is why he was about to be sacked.

Even here in Ireland most of the outrage was about his continuously changing story. He was interviewed for the RTE news and he stated that he restricted his movements once he arrived in Ireland until he got the all clear from his doctor. Less than 12 hours after the RTE news interview it was revealed that he had dinner in the K Club.

Everything that has happened is 100 percent his fault. He got caught lying & his boss lost confidence in his honour / honesty. It's his fault that we lost such an important EU position

Donald Trump

suicide_circus wrote: »

Donald Trump wrote: »

For some reason, this reminds me of the fella who was videoing himself licking toilet seats when corona first appeared and then caught it himself and videoed himself crying about it.

Yes, good, excellent! Anxiety levels increasing...must....comply!!!

If you want to keep licking toilet seats, nobody is going to stop you

Wanderer78

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you want to keep licking toilet seats, nobody is going to stop you

passes the day

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

exactly!



to be honest, if you end up in icu from covid, whether your on the dole or the wealthiest person on the planet, i suspect you wont be giving a fcuk of your financial situation



you can expect all you want, sometimes people dont really understand the dangers and/or give a fcuk

you implied low income people couldnt be expected to comply