Is it possible to get a pension directly from Standard Life, or do you have to use a

CFC1969

Is it possible to get a pension directly from Standard Life, or do you have to use a pensions advisor?


Would this lessen the fees paid going forward, or id there a flat fee, whether you use an intermediary or not?

Geuze

CFC1969 wrote: »

Is it possible to get a pension directly from Standard Life, or do you have to use a pensions advisor?


Would this lessen the fees paid going forward, or id there a flat fee, whether you use an intermediary or not?

This has been asked, and answered, over and over on AAM.

There is no advantage to going direct.

The insurer will not charge lower fees, as to do so would make the brokers unhappy.

The lowest fees are available from discount brokers.

bobbyy gee

You might not want one from them
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.standardlife.com

Jim2007

bobbyy gee wrote: »

You might not want one from them
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.standardlife.com

You might want to be more discerning about these type ratings, given the size of the undertaker about 70 responses is not much. Take out the usual whining etc and the number is even smaller.

I would not even consider such a small sample as a basis for any decision either way.

CFC1969

Geuze wrote: »

This has been asked, and answered, over and over on AAM.

There is no advantage to going direct.

The insurer will not charge lower fees, as to do so would make the brokers unhappy.

The lowest fees are available from discount brokers.

Thanks for your response Gueze


Do you know of any disount brokers, or where I can find them?

CFC1969

bobbyy gee wrote: »

You might not want one from them
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.standardlife.com

Thanks for the information Bobbyy

Unfortunately, The Irish Market in self directed products is restricted to CONEXIM, Standard Life and AVIVA

CONEXIM are not online, and AVIVA are expensive ....


To my knowledge ...

Jim2007

CFC1969 wrote: »

Unfortunately, The Irish Market in self directed products is restricted to CONEXIM, Standard Life and AVIVA.

And that is no bad thing! The reality is that in countries where self-directed pension have been available, they have proved to be very poor option, with most people lucky to come away with the money they originally invested.

It sound like a great idea, but the reality is that most people are not up to the job of make the necessary decisions. Emotions get in the way.

Geuze

CFC1969 wrote: »

Thanks for your response Gueze


Do you know of any disount brokers, or where I can find them?

I use www.labrokers.ie

There are a few others.

CFC1969

Jim2007 wrote: »

And that is no bad thing! The reality is that in countries where self-directed pension have been available, they have proved to be very poor option, with most people lucky to come away with the money they originally invested.

It sound like a great idea, but the reality is that most people are not up to the job of make the necessary decisions. Emotions get in the way.

You are entitled to your own opinion Jim, my view is the more options. the better

Jim2007

CFC1969 wrote: »

You are entitled to your own opinion Jim, my view is the more options. the better

Read the research... for instance the average US household on IRA & Roths reach retirement with a net worth of about $20k

CFC1969

Geuze wrote: »

I use www.labrokers.ie

There are a few others.

Thanks for all your help on this Gueze

CFC1969

Jim2007 wrote: »

Read the research... for instance the average US household on IRA & Roths reach retirement with a net worth of about $20k

Whats the research for the other funds? Have you compared both, and ascertained that managed funds generate more gains for the end user?


Please post information, this is interesting



Also, why would more competition in the market be a bad thing?


T212 are bringing out a fund in UK in 2020, so lots of competition there



https://www.trading212.com/



https://moneyweek.com/520337/vanguard-leads-charge-on-fees/


Vanguard have launched a SIPP with an annual fee of 0.15%

Jim2007

CFC1969 wrote: »

Whats the research for the other funds? Have you compared both, and ascertained that managed funds generate more gains for the end user?

The funds are not the problem, the investors are. Everyone likes to think they can do better than the professionals, but in reality very few do. Professional pension fund managers tend to do better than most, because it is not their money and they don't have to keep the sweet while they are doing it in case the punter decides to take his money out.

For most right now having say 300k in the market is not a comfortable thing, so they'll take it out, keep it in cash in case the market falls, buy a property instead (even though it is a much risker strategy), get the asset allocations wrong etc....

Getting the asset allocation wrong or being out of the market can be very expensive mistakes to make.

The J Stands for Jay

Jim2007 wrote: »

And that is no bad thing! The reality is that in countries where self-directed pension have been available, they have proved to be very poor option, with most people lucky to come away with the money they originally invested.

It sound like a great idea, but the reality is that most people are not up to the job of make the necessary decisions. Emotions get in the way.

A lot of people just bought loads of Irish Bank shares, and others bought Irish houses. Neither strategy went well

Jim2007

McGaggs wrote: »

A lot of people just bought loads of Irish Bank shares, and others bought Irish houses. Neither strategy went well

Neither of which is a strategy. More that about 7% property in portfolio means a high risk strategy and equities with a failure to diversify....

dennyk

Jim2007 wrote: »

Read the research... for instance the average US household on IRA & Roths reach retirement with a net worth of about $20k

That's less a product of people making poor investment choices and more a product of people in the US not making enough money to save for retirement period. It's also not accurate that that is the "average" balance "at retirement"; $20k or so is the median 401(k) balance overall as calculated by Vanguard in a 2019 analysis. That includes folks just starting out in the workforce as well as those nearing retirement. That said, the median balance for those nearing retirement age (55-64) was about $62k, which is still very little. (The "average" balance for those at that age is about $172k, and for all account holders overall was about $92k, but those averages are skewed by high earners who have been fortunate enough to be able to save significantly more than many folks can, so it isn't the best indicator of what the "average American" might have...)

As for investment strategies in general, low-cost indexed funds tend to perform as well or better than most actively managed funds, and (in the US, at least) cost significantly less in terms of fund management charges (expense ratios). For instance, in my Vanguard IRA, all of my retirement account fund management fees, even for diversified lifestyle and target retirement funds, are well under 0.20% (and no, that's not a typo). Some of the pure equity index funds like VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) and VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index Fund) are 0.04% with Admiral shares. There are also no other fees to open an IRA (or a taxable investment account) or deposit funds in a Vanguard account, and no fees to purchase or sell most of their mutual funds.

Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case here. All of the available PRSA fund management charges here are 1% and up, basically. Also, many PRSA funds charge a ridiculous "contribution charge", basically pocketing 3%-5% (sometimes even more, for non-standard PRSAs) of every penny you contribute to the PRSA right up front. That's just ****ing highway robbery, honestly. I've literally scoured the entire list of available PRSAs here and found nothing even approaching a reasonable fee structure.

I was fortunate enough to have an occupational pension at my last employer which had some passive index funds with nice low <0.15% management fees, so I never had to open a PRSA. Not sure what the fees are for the pension at my new job yet, though, as I haven't been able to get the HR folks to give me the fee info yet, but I think they're going to be much higher, sadly. At least I'll be able to leave my old pension where it is with the nice low fees, I suppose.

Edit: I should also add that in the US, unlike here, employers are not required to offer any kind of retirement savings option at all, so many US employees don't even have access to a 401(k) scheme (the equivalent of a defined contribution occupational pension scheme here). The only tax-advantaged option available to such folks is an IRA (sort of similar to a personal pension here, but with different rules for what happens at retirement), and each taxpayer's total IRA contributions are limited to a relatively small amount per year (e.g. the limit is $6000 in 2020) and do not scale with income. That can make it difficult to save the recommended amount for retirement in an IRA even if someone makes enough money to put some aside.

The J Stands for Jay

dennyk wrote: »

That's less a product of people making poor investment choices and more a product of people in the US not making enough money to save for retirement period. It's also not accurate that that is the "average" balance "at retirement"; $20k or so is the median 401(k) balance overall as calculated by Vanguard in a 2019 analysis. That includes folks just starting out in the workforce as well as those nearing retirement. That said, the median balance for those nearing retirement age (55-64) was about $62k, which is still very little. (The "average" balance for those at that age is about $172k, and for all account holders overall was about $92k, but those averages are skewed by high earners who have been fortunate enough to be able to save significantly more than many folks can, so it isn't the best indicator of what the "average American" might have...)

As for investment strategies in general, low-cost indexed funds tend to perform as well or better than most actively managed funds, and (in the US, at least) cost significantly less in terms of fund management charges (expense ratios). For instance, in my Vanguard IRA, all of my retirement account fund management fees, even for diversified lifestyle and target retirement funds, are well under 0.20% (and no, that's not a typo). Some of the pure equity index funds like VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) and VFIAX (Vanguard 500 Index Fund) are 0.04% with Admiral shares. There are also no other fees to open an IRA (or a taxable investment account) or deposit funds in a Vanguard account, and no fees to purchase or sell most of their mutual funds.

Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case here. All of the available PRSA fund management charges here are 1% and up, basically. Also, many PRSA funds charge a ridiculous "contribution charge", basically pocketing 3%-5% (sometimes even more, for non-standard PRSAs) of every penny you contribute to the PRSA right up front. That's just ****ing highway robbery, honestly. I've literally scoured the entire list of available PRSAs here and found nothing even approaching a reasonable fee structure.

I was fortunate enough to have an occupational pension at my last employer which had some passive index funds with nice low <0.15% management fees, so I never had to open a PRSA. Not sure what the fees are for the pension at my new job yet, though, as I haven't been able to get the HR folks to give me the fee info yet, but I think they're going to be much higher, sadly. At least I'll be able to leave my old pension where it is with the nice low fees, I suppose.

The problem with PRSAs is that the legislation for standard PRSAs set the maximum charges at 1%p.a. plus 5% of contributions, and that's were they've stayed since.

I'm paying 0.15% on my current pension scheme as well as my previous employment, and no contribution charges.