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Covid app now fixed, and there are updates too

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    #62
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Ok, thanks. Funnily enough my most check today also says 1870 keys.


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    #63
    Kurn
    Registered Users Posts: 875 ✭✭✭Kurn


    Is the app tracking locations? I know the HSE say they are not, but after my second test yesterday i left my phone in my car, about 30 mins ago my brother drove it to the shops and when he came back there was an alert (SMS) on the phone saying I should restrict my movements until a set date, a coincidence text?


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    #64
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Kurn wrote: »
    Is the app tracking locations? I know the HSE say they are not, but after my second test yesterday i left my phone in my car, about 30 mins ago my brother drove it to the shops and when he came back there was an alert (SMS) on the phone saying I should restrict my movements until a set date, a coincidence text?

    Interesting. I went for a walk on Sunday and Monday (as is allowed under restricted movements) and got a reminder text about 3 hours later each time. I assumed they were just going to be sending daily texts, but I haven't been out yet today, and haven't got a text.

    Have to admit, I was all for the app at the beginning, but my experience of the follow up from getting an alert has been pathetic, and put me off it. If it's going to check every time I scratch my arse, it can feck off.


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    #65
    Beanybabog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭Beanybabog


    I got an alert on mine. My OH went for a test Monday, results Tuesday, contact tracers called Thursday and he got and uploaded the code. It took a good 7-8 hours before it showed up in my app, and even at that it didn’t notify me- I went in to the app and it was just sitting in there. Got a call today (5 days later) about it. That contract tracer knew nothing about us- so I had to inform them we were tested and the results etc so he could close it off. It’s definitely only designed for contacts you don’t know and otherwise wouldn’t be alerted


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    #66
    Beanybabog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭Beanybabog


    Kurn wrote: »
    Is the app tracking locations? I know the HSE say they are not, but after my second test yesterday i left my phone in my car, about 30 mins ago my brother drove it to the shops and when he came back there was an alert (SMS) on the phone saying I should restrict my movements until a set date, a coincidence text?

    Doubt it. I’ve been tested and I get this message three times every day pretty much, once for me and once for each of my kids and I haven’t gone anywhere


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    #67
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Beanybabog wrote: »
    I got an alert on mine. My OH went for a test Monday, results Tuesday, contact tracers called Thursday and he got and uploaded the code. It took a good 7-8 hours before it showed up in my app, and even at that it didn’t notify me- I went in to the app and it was just sitting in there. Got a call today (5 days later) about it. That contract tracer knew nothing about us- so I had to inform them we were tested and the results etc so he could close it off. It’s definitely only designed for contacts you don’t know and otherwise wouldn’t be alerted

    So the testing was rapid (overnight) but the tracing took a week! And isn't linked up to the app.

    Crazy that the app didn't notify you - you only saw it because you checked the app. Are we supposed to check the app every day?


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    #68
    Kurn
    Registered Users Posts: 875 ✭✭✭Kurn


    Beanybabog wrote: »
    Doubt it. I’ve been tested and I get this message three times every day pretty much, once for me and once for each of my kids and I haven’t gone anywhere

    Defiantly only got one message and it was the minute the phone was on the move.

    I suspect it's not tracking location, but when it detects other phones nearby via Bluetooth it pings you with a SMS. I live alone so no other phones to bounce off , maybe that's why you get a few because of the other phones. Or maybe I'm rambling, it's all guess work.


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    #69
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭plodder


    It doesn't track location. The Android and IOS operating systems wouldn't allow tracking even if the HSE wanted to do it surreptitiously. Also, the logging of other phones through Bluetooth is a separate process to pinging you with a notification. I'd be fairly sure it was a co-incidence.


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    #70
    Kurn
    Registered Users Posts: 875 ✭✭✭Kurn


    plodder wrote: »
    It doesn't track location. The Android and IOS operating systems wouldn't allow tracking even if the HSE wanted to do it surreptitiously. Also, the logging of other phones through Bluetooth is a separate process to pinging you with a notification. I'd be fairly sure it was a co-incidence.
    .

    Ok. Maybe, but I spent 10 days not leaving the house, an hour after my phone leaves my driveway a message arrives "this is a reminder from the hse to continue to restrict their movements".

    The timing and the message are indeed a coincidence.

    I understand the processes are different , but the app does have my phone number which seems to be connected somehow to the whole process and whatever identifier they have on the app.

    It seems reasonable to assume that once your data is uploaded back to the hse your number can be matched to the reference number, as you voluntarily submitted it. And it can conclude other nearby devices ( location change or not) - maybe you have visitors. And it messages you.

    I maybe going down a rabbit hole of course.


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    #71
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Kurn wrote: »
    Defiantly only got one message and it was the minute the phone was on the move.

    I suspect it's not tracking location, but when it detects other phones nearby via Bluetooth it pings you with a SMS. I live alone so no other phones to bounce off , maybe that's why you get a few because of the other phones. Or maybe I'm rambling, it's all guess work.

    The app and text systems aren't linked, the only time the app uploads info containing your number is when the HSE give you a code enabling it. The HSE text system is a bit hit and miss, I'm supposed to be getting a daily text reminding me to restrict my movements until the 1st (cause a contact tracer put in the wrong date of contact) but every couple of days it just never arrives.

    It was interesting, when I was a close contact of someone I was sitting in the same room as them for around an hour about 3 metres away, my partner was sitting about 1 metre away. Once the HSE got around to contact tracing a week later her app notified her but mine didn't. I checked the logs and I had 1 matched key (first one I've ever seen) in the most recent batch. I looked into the Google API and the exposure notification service keeps a risk score with every stored key, based on calculated distance between phones and time spent near them. So it actually made total sense.

    A few days later she got a call based on the app notification, they weren't aware that she had been tested at this stage, all they knew was her number, but once they got her details they were able to link the two cases and close it off.

    They need to separate the app activation from the contract tracing IMO, if we didn't know we were close contacts anyway she would have been walking around freely for week, spreading the virus if she had it.


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    #72
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭plodder


    Kurn wrote: »
    .

    Ok. Maybe, but I spent 10 days not leaving the house, an hour after my phone leaves my driveway a message arrives "this is a reminder from the hse to continue to restrict their movements".

    The timing and the message are indeed a coincidence.

    I understand the processes are different , but the app does have my phone number which seems to be connected somehow to the whole process and whatever identifier they have on the app.
    If you tested positive then the HSE has your number. Or if you are a contact for someone who tested positive then they have it too. It's technically possible for phones to be tracked, but only by the phone network, not by the HSE. Even the gardai have to go through a formal process to get that information from the networks. The app is definitely not allowed access to your GPS location.

    My wife was a close contact and we were talking about it the other evening, when she got one of those text reminders just as we were talking. That was a coincidence too, I'd be fairly sure.
    It seems reasonable to assume that once your data is uploaded back to the hse your number can be matched to the reference number, as you voluntarily submitted it. And it can conclude other nearby devices ( location change or not) - maybe you have visitors. And it messages you.

    I maybe going down a rabbit hole of course.

    The bluetooth identifiers are effectively random though. Any identifiers that you uploaded previously bear no relationship to new ones that your phone is broadcasting on subsequent days. A new random key is generated every day.


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    #73
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,823 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1321408792559525891

    Re: educational settings

    Concerns raised about advice to teachers and special needs assistants to turn off app https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Covid-app-switch-off-Concerns-raised-about-advice-to-teachers-and-special-needs-assistants-a22ee7f0-d898-445d-be9e-20f1b3b5ac6f-ds
    In correspondence from a HSE official, seen by The Echo, it is stated: “In regard to teachers and SNAs, I understand that the advice is turn off bluetooth while they are at work.”
    because the app is for strangers, not colleagues?


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    #74
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,823 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Covid Tracker app close contact alerts were delayed on some iPhones https://www.newstalk.com/news/exclusive-covid-tracker-app-alerts-delayed-iphones-1094268 reported last week


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    #75
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    expectationlost wrote: »
    Covid Tracker app close contact alerts were delayed on some iPhones https://www.newstalk.com/news/exclusive-covid-tracker-app-alerts-delayed-iphones-1094268 reported last week

    Could that explain why people are being told that the contact happened after the alert actually came through?


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    #76
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Kurn wrote: »
    Is the app tracking locations? I know the HSE say they are not, but after my second test yesterday i left my phone in my car, about 30 mins ago my brother drove it to the shops and when he came back there was an alert (SMS) on the phone saying I should restrict my movements until a set date, a coincidence text?
    Thoie wrote: »
    Interesting. I went for a walk on Sunday and Monday (as is allowed under restricted movements) and got a reminder text about 3 hours later each time. I assumed they were just going to be sending daily texts, but I haven't been out yet today, and haven't got a text.

    I withdraw my scepticism:
    Sunday - walk - 3 hours later, text
    Monday - walk - 3 hours later, text
    Tuesday - didn't move - no text
    Wednesday - didn't move - text arrived around 11pm

    So it looks like the reminder texts are coincidental and fairly random.


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    #77
    Kurn
    Registered Users Posts: 875 ✭✭✭Kurn


    Thoie wrote: »
    I withdraw my scepticism:
    Sunday - walk - 3 hours later, text
    Monday - walk - 3 hours later, text
    Tuesday - didn't move - no text
    Wednesday - didn't move - text arrived around 11pm

    So it looks like the reminder texts are coincidental and fairly random.

    Yes the same. No texts all week then two around the same time. So I was wrong.


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    #78
    Caquas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Caquas


    After all the hype, it seems these COVID-19 tracking apps are still unproven, at best.
    we still don’t know whether any of these apps or exposure notifications have made any significant difference to contact tracing efforts or controlling the pandemic. The likelihood is that apps have not made much difference
    An Oxford study last autumn suggested that at least 56 per cent of a population would need to be actively using the app for it to be an effective tracing tool. As far as I can discover, no app has reached that population threshold.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/covid-tracker-apps-show-technology-is-not-always-the-answer-1.4563375


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    #79
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Doesn't help either when you test positive that they can't be bothered to ring you to activate it for a week or two if at all going by reports


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    #80
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Caquas wrote: »
    After all the hype, it seems these COVID-19 tracking apps are still unproven, at best.



    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/covid-tracker-apps-show-technology-is-not-always-the-answer-1.4563375
    They were never seen as a major tool, just maybe a handy extra, especially where people had large numbers of contacts and yeah you need a lot of active users.


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