The Jumpers are Coming 2020/2021

Dr. Bre

The big breakaway disappointing at Exeter today

IAMAMORON

Coneygree wrote: »

Hope he gets bet as it means they'll send him over 3 miles finally.

I can't work it out at all, it looks a great race.

I don't think Samcro stays ( 3 miles ) tbh.

Anniepowaa

haha all the clowns championing the big breakaway ye were told

Pogue eile

Anniepowaa wrote: »

haha all the clowns championing the big breakaway ye were told

A three horse race over 2m3f was not going to tell us anything about him, all we learned today is that it will definitely be the RSA and he has a lot to learn.

akelly02

Pogue eile wrote: »

A three horse race over 2m3f was not going to tell us anything about him, all we learned today is that it will definitely be the RSA and he has a lot to learn.

What i learned from that is dont back a tizzy horse over xmas or you deserve to lose your money

wouldnt train ivy up a wall

Anniepowaa

Pogue eile wrote: »

A three horse race over 2m3f was not going to tell us anything about him, all we learned today is that it will definitely be the RSA and he has a lot to learn.

aye cause an rsa winner in waiting would lose to that ginnit over any trip , give over

Slattsy

Yeah I'd rarely back a Tizzard animal unless I see money for it. Power riding them makes them even less appealing.

Pogue eile

Anniepowaa wrote: »

aye cause an rsa winner in waiting would lose to that ginnit over any trip , give over

When did you tell us? Or how many accounts do you have???

IAMAMORON

akelly02 wrote: »

What i learned from that is dont back a tizzy horse over xmas or you deserve to lose your money

wouldnt train ivy up a wall

Not untrue, but I reckon Eldorado Allen is decent.

Thing is that he had 2 winners yesterday, but his overall form has been poor.

I think the trip was clearly the issue today.

The biggest indicator for me of a stable out of form is when they can't buy a winner and in particular when their good ones are running shockers. I am still not sure there, it may well be that the young fella hasn't a clue?

I couldn't stop anyone backing Eldorado Allen all the same, given overall stable form they are either ripping the piss early season, for a big late season, or they are having a nightmare and Eldorado Allen is a monster who cannot lose a race. If the later is true he looks a seriously good horse.

Pogue eile

Tizzard horses seem to have been off for nearly 12 months now! Always came across as this gormless country bumpkin type, but then was banging in Graded winners left right and center, looks like he has returned to the mean.

akelly02

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Not untrue, but I reckon Eldorado Allen is decent.

Thing is that he had 2 winners yesterday, but his overall form has been poor.

I think the trip was clearly the issue today.

The biggest indicator for me of a stable out of form is when they can't buy a winner and in particular when their good ones are running shockers. I am still not sure there, it may well be that the young fella hasn't a clue?

I couldn't stop anyone backing Eldorado Allen all the same, given overall stable form they are either ripping the piss early season, for a big late season, or they are having a nightmare and Eldorado Allen is a monster who cannot lose a race. If the later is true he looks a seriously good horse.

i also like eldorado allen , but tizzard putting me off

apparantly lostintranslation was very straight for his re-appearance, we all know how that went


joker

Plasandrunt

Townend going to Cork to ride CPS instead of riding in the Grade 1 John Durkan? Surely a pointer to avoid the Mullins horses?

Coneygree

Disappointing from TBB but what in the name of God was Tizzard thinking sending him over 2.3 after starting him over 3 a few weeks back. Tizzard must be making poitín in the cattle troughs and drinking it by the bottle the last 12 months. Regardless you'd feel a great horse would have won today regardless.

Will hold onto the docket but he looks a big dopey ride, hard enough to manage. Still keeping faith for his second year chasing though.

zpehtsfd

Plasandrunt wrote: »

Townend going to Cork to ride CPS instead of riding in the Grade 1 John Durkan? Surely a pointer to avoid the Mullins horses?

I think it speaks more to him wanting to ride CPS. Exciting horse.

akelly02

zpehtsfd wrote: »

I think it speaks more to him wanting to ride CPS. Exciting horse.

he would want to be walking it on sunday to have a serious chance in the champion chase

spuddiesal

akelly02 wrote: »

he would want to be walking it on sunday to have a serious chance in the champion chase

I wouldn’t trust any of Willies first time out. But he should have too much class. I’d say they are hoping for an easy race so he can run again at Xmas and min run at February at Dublin festival. They won’t want the slog between the two again.

Coneygree

Even without CPS, the Durkan looks a better race than the Ryanair will be in March. I'd imagine one or two more will drop out though.

Samcro and Allaho are the two I'm most interested in. Allaho is my big early dart for the Ryanair and although I don't expect him to win FTO I'm hoping for a good showing.

For Samcro either hack up or else bottom out and cry out for further. From the sound of O'Leary this week he might be aimed at the Lexus at Christmas regardless.

IAMAMORON

akelly02 wrote: »

i also like eldorado allen , but tizzard putting me off

apparantly lostintranslation was very straight for his re-appearance, we all know how that went


joker

It is head scratching.

The biggie for me is that novice chase at Sandown tomorrow is not a good one for favs and interestingly no 4 year old winner that I remember? I would not be sold on Allmankind. Eldorado Allen keeps taking names, Queil Destin, Fusil Raffles, Stormy Island , Zamza ( won since ). I think he is the answer, despite the iffy trainer form. I won't be going in heavy either, throw him in a few yankees and a small bet for an interest. In fact I couldn't stop anyone throwing Darts at any of the 5 year olds, given the stats. But Eldorado Allen for me.

akelly02

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is head scratching.

The biggie for me is that novice chase at Sandown tomorrow is not a good one for favs and interestingly no 4 year old winner that I remember? I would not be sold on Allmankind. Eldorado Allen keeps taking names, Queil Destin, Fusil Raffles, Stormy Island , Zamza ( won since ). I think he is the answer, despite the iffy trainer form. I won't be going in heavy either, throw him in a few yankees and a small bet for an interest. In fact I couldn't stop anyone throwing Darts at any of the 5 year olds, given the stats. But Eldorado Allen for me.

No bet ,but if I had to choose I'd go with Eldorado aswell . I think Allmankind will fall in a hole after the pond fence after setting off too hard

abarkie

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Will be the first 10 year old to win it since Moscow Flyer

A bit off topic, but was that the race against one of John Hales and David Johnsons - well chief I think

That was some race

IAMAMORON

abarkie wrote: »

A bit off topic, but was that the race against one of John Hales and David Johnsons - well chief I think

That was some race

Sorry for the reception . the wind was bad that they.:pac:

Dr. Bre

Rumours altior out of tingle creek

Pogue eile

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Rumours altior out of tingle creek

Confirmed, Henderson is an absolute crook.

del roy

STAR WITHDRAWAL Shock as Tingle Creek favourite Altior is ruled out of Sandown return




Nicky Henderson's star chaser Altior has been ruled out of his planned comeback in the Betfair Tingle Creek Chase at Sandown on Saturday as a result of the ground conditions.

Speaking on Friday night, Henderson said: "It is with a heavy heart we have decided that Altior is not going to run. We simply don't want to bottom him again given what happened last year."

Slattsy

Just hearing from my mole that Altior is out. Mum's the word.

Dr. Bre

Nice performance all mankind

IAMAMORON

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Nice performance all mankind

It was and I am doing some mild pocket talk here because I just blew a tenner on Eldorado Allen.

I said before the race that a 4 year old hasn't won it, not in my memory and having said that the first three home had the 4 year old allowance of 7lbs.

It is worth noting that anything that goes to the Arkle will no longer get that, so they will all have to run with an extra half stone on their backs in 4 weeks.

So whilst Allmankind looked impressive and has a nice future I would note that for the future, he got a half stone off horses that he won't in 4 weeks time.

EDIT - its 6lbs so just under a half stone

akelly02

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It was and I am doing some mild pocket talk here because I just blew a tenner on Eldorado Allen.

I said before the race that a 4 year old hasn't won it, not in my memory and having said that the first three home had the 4 year old allowance of 7lbs.

It is worth noting that anything that goes to the Arkle will no longer get that, so they will all have to run with an extra half stone on their backs in 4 weeks.

So whilst Allmankind looked impressive and has a nice future I would note that for the future, he got a half stone off horses that he won't in 4 weeks time.

I'm done with tizzard.

Shishkin wont lose any sleep either I'd say

Coneygree

akelly02 wrote: »

I'm done with tizzard.

Shishkin wont lose any sleep either I'd say

Same, I'll keep my TBB and LIT slips but Jesus Christ he's been rotten with 12+ months now.

Allmankind should give Shishkin a lovely tow to the final few fences.

Pogue eile

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It was and I am doing some mild pocket talk here because I just blew a tenner on Eldorado Allen.

I said before the race that a 4 year old hasn't won it, not in my memory and having said that the first three home had the 4 year old allowance of 7lbs.

It is worth noting that anything that goes to the Arkle will no longer get that, so they will all have to run with an extra half stone on their backs in 4 weeks.

So whilst Allmankind looked impressive and has a nice future I would note that for the future, he got a half stone off horses that he won't in 4 weeks time.

EDIT - its 6lbs so just under a half stone

He was only getting 6lbs off the fourth and fifth, both of whom he beat more than comfortably, very impressive performance.

IAMAMORON

akelly02 wrote: »

I'm done with tizzard.

Shishkin wont lose any sleep either I'd say

I can't argue.

Native River at Aintree, get on , it just wins:P

IAMAMORON

Fair play to Roger, some dude.

I never knew he handled horses tbh.

akelly02

Coneygree wrote: »

Same, I'll keep my TBB and LIT slips but Jesus Christ he's been rotten with 12+ months now.

Allmankind should give Shishkin a lovely tow to the final few fences.

Correct.

I'm sure Mullins will send a good one to the arkle. Wont be a cakewalk.

supremenovice

Shark Hanlon has gotten some tune out of Skyace after getting her from Willie Mullins. This season she has won at 15/2, 10/1, 66/1 and today 28/1. Unbelieveable.

Anniepowaa

where has this myth that shishkin is some sort of speedball come from? he was outpaced for large parts of the supreme before staying on on bad ground

akelly02

Anniepowaa wrote: »

where has this myth that shishkin is some sort of speedball come from? he was outpaced for large parts of the supreme before staying on on bad ground

hes fast .

have you seen his novice hurdles beforehand?

you will see how quick he is on dec 27th hopefully

Anniepowaa

akelly02 wrote: »

hes fast .

have you seen his novice hurdles beforehand?

you will see how quick he is on dec 27th hopefully

the write up for shishkin and abacadabras is nearly word for word the same in the supreme and we all seen what aspire tower did to him , shishkin may be good but he is not the next altior

Pogue eile

Anniepowaa wrote: »

where has this myth that shishkin is some sort of speedball come from? he was outpaced for large parts of the supreme before staying on on bad ground

Exactly, and ran over 2m3f the race before that. He would be going in the Marsh only for Envoi. The bare form of the Supreme is muddied to say the least with all that happened. 6/4 is a criminal price never mind 6/5 which he is in places. He debut was visually impressive but what did he actually beat? A horse rated a stone and a half inferrior and being schooled!

akelly02

Anniepowaa wrote: »

the write up for shishkin and abacadabras is nearly word for word the same in the supreme and we all seen what aspire tower did to him , shishkin may be good but he is not the next altior

who is saying hes the next altior??

all im saying is the arkle looks like its his to lose

IAMAMORON

I would be more worried about the general form of the Henderson yard, he looks ruffled, he needs to get back on the brandy.

Champ not seen yet either, talking about Leopardstown I would have hoped to see him out for the Hennessy at Newbury. They said he had a wind op but these good ones need runs, especially stayers.

Pogue eile

akelly02 wrote: »

who is saying hes the next altior??

He is being priced as if he is. 6/5 over 3 months away and we haven't even seen half of his potential rivals yet. I am struggling to think of a worse value fav right now. How is he shorter for the Arkle than Envoi is for the Marsh?

akelly02

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I would be more worried about the general form of the Henderson yard, he looks ruffled, he needs to get back on the brandy.

Champ not seen yet either, talking about Leopardstown I would have hoped to see him out for the Hennessy at Newbury. They said he had a wind op but these good ones need runs, especially stayers.

champ going lexus

shishkin and epatante didnt need runs, chantry house maybe did. now i know they are not stayers

akelly02

Pogue eile wrote: »

He is being priced as if he is. 6/5 over 3 months away and we haven't even seen half of his potential rivals yet. I am struggling to think of a worse value fav right now. How is he shorter for the Arkle than Envoi is for the Marsh?

lack of opposition

IAMAMORON

akelly02 wrote: »

champ going lexus

shishkin and epatante didnt need runs, chantry house maybe did. now i know they are not stayers

If he goes Lexus he has to be backed for it. JP wouldn't be bringing him over to see what his shight smells like. Nice long run in Leopardstown it suits dodgy jumpers who can keep in touch. It will be interesting to see how he gets on against Delta Work.

akelly02

IAMAMORON wrote: »

If he goes Lexus he has to be backed for it. JP wouldn't be bringing him over to see what his shight smells like. Nice long run in Leopardstown it suits dodgy jumpers who can keep in touch. It will be interesting to see how he gets on against Delta Work.

your right , he is a dodgy jumper....could get away with it alright .


looks like a good race

Rabbit Redux

The Marsh/JLT is just another excuse for decent novices to dodge each other. In the old days, Envoi Allen and Shishkin would probably be in line to clash with each other in the Arkle. Now they can take different routes. Not blaming connections as the alternatives are there to be taken advantage of, but from a purist's point of view these relatively new races are contradicting the very point of the Cheltenham Festival.

IAMAMORON

Here here, that Marsh Plate is nothing but a handy cop out. A nothing race for horses that can't get 3 miles and are too slow for 2.

akelly02

moores are drooling over goshen running this weekend

i hope he runs and this hype can end once and for all

but the chances are he will not scope well and be pulled again , you heard it here first !!!

Rabbit Redux

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Here here, that Marsh Plate is nothing but a handy cop out. A nothing race for horses that can't get 3 miles and are too slow for 2.

I have no doubt that Envoi Allen would be well capable of taking on Shishkin over 2 miles. He'd also be capable of taking on the likes of Monkfish over 3 miles. The Marsh just gives them an excuse to dodge good opposition. Again, not blaming Gordon Elliot or Cheveley Park, but considering there's been plenty of debate over NH horses dodging each other during the course of the season, it also happens during the so-called "Olympics" of National Hunt racing at the Festival.

IAMAMORON

You can see where all the value has gone for punters also. 15 years ago both novice chases would have a heap of contenders. Now the 3 best ones get to pick which one they would like to run in, sure half the time they could be from the same yard.

Most small trainers don't even bother, they are looking to get one thrown in at Stratford, they watch the rest on the tellly and don't have to deal with the crowds. They can take the barge back up to town after. Cute enough.