Snooker season 2020/21

El_Duderino 09

zuutroy wrote: »

Some performance by Ronnie yesterday in the Pro Series. Didn't see much of it, but he basically didn't play a safety all day, attempted a 2-cushion thin glance break-off and played his next shot one handed against Tom Ford. In the next frame he let out a massive fart and had a fit of the giggles while continuing his break. Needless to say, he finished last in his group!

That's quite a record for a day. Is it on tv anywhere?

zuutroy

No, only on the Matchroom live website where you have to pay. I think it's £1 for a day pass...not sure about longer subscriptions.

robinwing

Ronnie producing sound effects


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4Orf3rRKo

robinwing

Watch him lift his left leg before the off

waynescales1

robinwing wrote: »

Ronnie producing sound effects


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4Orf3rRKo

How did that black drop?

El_Duderino 09

Apologies if their has been posted already. According to this podcast, they’re allowing spectators for the world championships.

It would be great to have a bit of atmosphere for the matches. https://overcast.fm/+FQh2yD0JU

Anyone going to be in north England at that time? My work might just make it possible. I’ll have to wait and see.

zuutroy

I have tickets to semi-final Saturday but I'll likely just defer them until next year. I assume they'll give that option again.

ebbsy

World Snooker Championship Qualifying Round 1........................


Hendry VS White

The Nal

ebbsy wrote: »

World Snooker Championship Qualifying Round 1........................


Hendry VS White

Hendrys reaction!

https://twitter.com/ITVSport/status/1374712083728760835

The Golden Miller

Hendry never had the yips. He just said that as he couldn't explain his decline himself. You don't keep knocking in centuries with the yips.

He lost it mentally. Not so much concentration, more mellowed. The fire and hunger went with age and so much success, and then when he started to lose, his mentality compounded downwards with it.

Others could pot and break build just as well as him. But his ego, arrogance and will to win, no matter how trivial the frame, to be better than the other guy, seperated him. To pot everything and anything constantly, bombaring pressure on the other guy. In essence he forced his will on the game, even if the other guy was as good or better. There's no real measurement that accounts for that

Joe_ Public

Have always been a bit sceptical about the yips narrative too. Whatever the truth of it, or the broken cue excuse, i've always believed the reality was a bit more prosaic. Hendry hit his mid 30s after a decade of dominance at the exact time a surge of brilliant fresh young talents were just about to hit their stride. The young guys just didn't fear him like the old guys did and losing his aura was hard for hendry to accept. He still remained a great player, some of his battles with ronnie are among the best the game has witnessed, but i think losing the sf in 2004 with a session to spare was a humiliation he could never fully recover from. That was the beginning of the end. I don't see much of a mystery to it really, a great player being supplanted by a rush of great players coming after him. Isnt that how it's supposed to go? Law of the jungle and all that.

The Golden Miller

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Have always been a bit sceptical about the yips narrative too. Whatever the truth of it, or the broken cue excuse, i've always believed the reality was a bit more prosaic. Hendry hit his mid 30s after a decade of dominance at the exact time a surge of brilliant fresh young talents were just about to hit their stride. The young guys just didn't fear him like the old guys did and losing his aura was hard for hendry to accept. He still remained a great player, some of his battles with ronnie are among the best the game has witnessed, but i think losing the sf in 2004 with a session to spare was a humiliation he could never fully recover from. That was the beginning of the end. I don't see much of a mystery to it really, a great player being supplanted by a rush of great players coming after him. Isnt that how it's supposed to go? Law of the jungle and all that.

I'd agree to a point, and bear in mind I'm a huge Mark Williams fan as most know. I think the golden generation sped up his decline, but I do think had he been a few years younger would of dominated in that generation too.

Williams for me, on his day, is the best in my book. But Hendry in his prime would beat him more often than not I think. The mental side of his game is well known, but the influence it had is underestimated. His want/need to beat the other guy across from him, no matter how big or small frame, is unparalleled. Dogmatic and to a point sad, bit odd growing up I'd say. The only way I can describe it is he forced his will on the game, no one wanted it more

Joe_ Public

I suppose if we're comparing players at their respective peaks, maybe that's a slightly different discussion. I'm a huge fan of all these guys, i've always held the few years either side of the millennium as the games golden age, so many greats operating somewhere close to their peak, some maybe slightly beyond it, others approaching it. And the likes of Ken, ebdon, the hugely promising Paul Hunter etc, all in the background. Just terrific match players. I mean, i loved the 80s for all the colour and sheer fun of it, but that period was something else.

Nobody can ever match hendry for his desire and sheer hunger for titles, but the one thing i would say is that even during his 90s pomp, ronnie for one was never far behind him. Hendry did generally hold sway at the worlds, but outside that, they were fairly even until gradually the balance of power starts to shift ronnies way. Higgins too had started to edge ahead by the end of the decade. So whatever problems hendry felt he had, i just think the aura was already slipping a bit and not being able to dominate guys so easily left him a bit more vulnerable than he'd been. Take ronnie, higgins, mjw out of it, how many more world titles does he win?

The Golden Miller

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I suppose if we're comparing players at their respective peaks, maybe that's a slightly different discussion. I'm a huge fan of all these guys, i've always held the few years either side of the millennium as the games golden age, so many greats operating somewhere close to their peak, some maybe slightly beyond it, others approaching it. And the likes of Ken, ebdon, the hugely promising Paul Hunter etc, all in the background. Just terrific match players. I mean, i loved the 80s for all the colour and sheer fun of it, but that period was something else.

Nobody can ever match hendry for his desire and sheer hunger for titles, but the one thing i would say is that even during his 90s pomp, ronnie for one was never far behind him. Hendry did generally hold sway at the worlds, but outside that, they were fairly even until gradually the balance of power starts to shift ronnies way. Higgins too had started to edge ahead by the end of the decade. So whatever problems hendry felt he had, i just think the aura was already slipping a bit and not being able to dominate guys so easily left him a bit more vulnerable than he'd been. Take ronnie, higgins, mjw out of it, how many more world titles does he win?

We have to bear in mind Hendry was a couple of years older than the coming generation. So he declined early/mid 00's, which would of been the norm to then. But then we see Higgins, Williams and O'Sullivan at it years later, when they should be miles out of their prime, and Hendry simply couldn't compete.

I suppose what I'm trying to get at is hard to articulate. Maybe one way of putting it is when your a teenager things mean more. Meath winning an all-Ireland, Ireland world cup 2002 etc meant everything. Then you grow up and have a family and other things take precedence, where Meath winning as all-Ireland isn't the be all and end all anymore. I mean it's still nice, but no longer the priority in life.

Hendry had that dogmaticness as a teenager to win at all costs, where it was everything, and he'd go for everything. I've never really seen it in another player before, well not quite the same desperation to win. I don't think he was even the best player in his era, but he had that something that forced his game on the opponent, until submission. He lost whatever that was with age as one mellows, I think. And dare I say it, wasn't as talented as Higgins, O'Sullivan or Williams so doesn't have the longevity. He had something else though.

For me O'Sullivan is too mentally weak. Even with all this "getting over his demons" stick, he's suspect mentally. I'd fancy Selby to do a job on him more often than not when it counts. Mentally Hendry was better again.

I suppose its like pool in the pub. Someone may be better, but if you get in first and can clear, it doesnt matter who's better once you can clear 8 balls. There were others better naturally than Hendry, but he was still good enough to clear the table regardless. It was something mentally that made him so good I think, and I don't think anyone else has what that was. But he lost it and declined, as he wasn't as naturally talented as some of the others. That's how I see it anyway

Joe_ Public

I wouldn't disagree with most of what you're saying. I've always had hendry and ronnie in the highest regard, never that interested in the whole goat debate because they're such vastly different players who brought unique qualities to the table. There's no right or wrong answer to the greatest debate, just individual criteria and sometimes personal preference. If folk want to argue higgins or even mjw, that's fine by me too.

My reading of development of snooker is that Hendry changed the game, the mentality and how it was played, and the next generation, products of the playing boom inspired by the 80s, took it on to the next level. Then, the game declines, playing numbers drop alarmingly, and so you have far fewer numbers of talented youngsters coming through, hence the greater longetivity of those at the top. Being a freak of nature, ronnie probably be competitive anyway. The others, not so sure about.

Incidentally, i think it's interesting that before 1999, hendry and ronnie had met 19 times (excluding league matches) and score was 10-9 to hendry. 6 of those were finals and shared 3-3. Hendry did win their 2 crucible matches in that period but ronnie won both their uk final clashes.

So i don't believe there was much between them during what were hendrys peak years. They had some blinding matches, the 1997 charity challenge final in which hendry won with a maxi probably among the top handful of matches ever played i would think.

tanko

So Ronnie is too mentally weak and Mark Williams is the best player ever.

I've read some rubbish but this kind of stuff is laughable.

waynescales1

Don't agree at all about Hendry's decline. His ability to pot snooker balls declined, not his winning mentality.

volono

Agree with wot others are saying. But Hendry dominated!! a lesser field of players, no doubts in my mind about that......the game had moved on then, it got to the stage where X amount of players could do what he was doing......one chance snooker, so his confidence diminished, which obviously diminished him, along with his declining ability then.
That's the way it went for many many years. Who can pot the most, until Selby came on the scene....an absolute grinder of the highest order. Ronnie should of easily beaten him in the world final, but he done his head in, definitely!!. Higgins was in the exact same position against him, same again. It's actually gone full circle now in my eyes......safety, safety, safety....but one mistake, your opponent now clears up, virtually everytime, it's like 8 ball pool!!!. The standard has so vastly risen imo.
At their absolute peak I'd still split it. Purely for the fact that Hendry , like another poster said, never backed down, I don't know. Ronnie's always been a bit weak, countless times we've seen that. Would Hendry wear him down and get there??
Now as an aside ........what's Ronnie's best????
Did we ever see it imo?
He beat Hendry in the U.K. at 17 year old like.
The g.o.a.t thing is so so subjective.
No one has , will ever do what Ronnie has, coming back from a year off, bar one tourney , I think and win the world's.
From wot I can remember , he didn't lose ONE session throughout the whole tournament, not even a "mini" session I think.
It's walking genius. There's 20 highlight reels of breaks, shots, safety's he's done.
I use to hate the inconsistency from him in the 90''s but look what the bloke was going through.
If any of you watched the Stephen Hendry podcasts from last year, with the lockdown, Ronnie was speaking to him. Hendry asked "what's the one game you regret"?
"The Selby final"
"Why"
I shouldn't of let myself get involved in his type of game, safety, safety, bogged down, I'm out of rhythm. I'd rather get it over with.......I can reel frames off in a row then anyhow.
I'm paraphrasing there but that's EXACTLY what he done then in the semi , in the end, for all the moaning about bashing the white around. Ronnie was sick of it.
He done the same to Ding in the semi as well a couple of years before, the Selby fella, the year he beat Higgins, I think near every frame was near 45 mins.

The Nal

Hendry was number 1 in 2006/2007 lets not forget. Yips and all. Above Ronnie, Higgins, Williams, Ken, Ebson, Murphy etc. Having originally been number 1 in 1990.

volono

The Nal wrote: »

Hendry was number 1 in 2006/2007 lets not forget. Yips and all. Above Ronnie, Higgins, Williams, Ken, Ebson, Murphy etc. Having originally been number 1 in 1990.

Fair enough but you must put that into the context of how many ranking tournaments where around and how the actual ranking list was complied at the time. Getting into the top 16 was absolutely everything at that time because it quaranteed entry and seeding into every competition and lasted 2 years, no matter how badly you played after getting there. I vaguely remember working it out years ago. Get in the top 16. Lose first round every comp. and it still worked out at about 60k a year prize money(I may have that wrong). Now in saying that, if that did take place you would bomb down the rankings after.

Joe_ Public

Rankings are obviously a fairly reliable guide of general consistency, but could sometimes be a bit perplexing too. I remember Ken making a big jump to No.2 the same year Hendry was 1, without really doing all that much. He'd won Malta open, but sadly i believe he was on the slide at the time, just never the player he was from around turn of century.

Thing with rankings is the more you win, the higher you climb but then the more points you will have to defend either the next or following season. Even more so back then when not such a busy calendar. World champs really skewered it, then when you lost those points you faced the prospect of a mini slide down the table. Unless you went and won it again, of course!

Pighead

Ronnie making an announcement on facebook tomorrow at 3pm. Lot of people online speculating that he may be about to announce his retirement.

When he first mentioned the announcement I assumed it was gonna be something to do with cooking or running but about an hour ago he put up pics on his facebook page of his first and last world championship wins. Could indicate that he's about to head off into the sunset. Will be a sad say for the sport if he is saying farewell.

Joe_ Public

The message i saw quoted wouldn't indicate imminent retirement to me anyway. Could be anything, new book, new business sideline of some sort and this is certainly a good way of drumming up maximum publicity! Sure we'll find out soon enough anyway.

The Nal

Hopefully not. He was only saying a few months back that he wants to play to age 50.

Arthur Daley

I'd think so many players have put it up to him this season he'd be well up for the challange of it.

I always thought that if he were going to pack it in, it would be because he'd lost too much respect for the game, or slithered down the rankings too much.

bradolf pittler

Don't think its retirement.
Hes won nearly 250k this season,Doubt if he'd pack it in while he's collecting that every season.

waynescales1

New cue action?

The Nal

Genghis

Anyone watching?

The Nal

Yes he's not retiring. Smiling his head off. What a troll.

Teaming up with the Rokit brand.

Joe_ Public

Just a very good marketing wheez, a smart boy is our ronnie.

Pighead

He got me good. Should have known better! Brand announcement with company called Rokit.

Joe_ Public

Judd named as player of the season, though i note the media equivalent went to Selby. I'm with the media on this one. You can probably argue it both ways, but the worlds just carries so much weight for me that the balance swings towards Selby.

And note rookie of the year Pang Junxu, been banging on about this chap for a while. Very good prospect.

https://wst.tv/trump-named-player-of-the-year-for-third-time/

El_Duderino 09

More relevant to next year but Mark Allen announced he will take a break from the game as he declares bankruptcy.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/mark-allengoesfromblackto-red-snooker-star-declaredbankrupt-40457827.html

Poor guy. I presume there's plenty of things going on behind the scenes so I hope he's able to overcome them and get himself back on track.

volono

Theres a paywall for that article, no idea of his circumstances but he won the champion of champions earlier this year, think it was worth 200/250k to him, strange one. I know it's been well documented he suffered or suffers with depression which can't be easy. A brilliant player but lacks any type of consistency, hope he bounces back , maybe a year off the circuit or whatever will do him good

volono

To Joe public , I know it's a while since your post but yeah it's a flip of a coin for me. Judd played fantastic stuff earlier in the season and only lost the UK on the last frame to Robertson as well. We'll never know about the masters because of him catching covid. It's a hard call , no doubts.

El_Duderino 09

volono wrote: »

Theres a paywall for that article, no idea of his circumstances but he won the champion of champions earlier this year, think it was worth 200/250k to him, strange one. I know it's been well documented he suffered or suffers with depression which can't be easy. A brilliant player but lacks any type of consistency, hope he bounces back , maybe a year off the circuit or whatever will do him good

Yeah the amount of money coming in certainly wasn't the cause of the bankruptcy. Whether he made some bad investments or it's something non-business related, I don't pretend to know. You always wonder if a fella who makes so much money and goes bankrupt, is into gambling or drugs, but I'm not suggesting any evidence that he's into either.

Whatever the cause, he needs some help and support now and I hope he uses his time out of the sport to get it so he can get himself back on track.

weemcd

I don't particularly like Allen but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I saw screenshots of the article but I can't find it now on twitter.

From memory, Allen resigned as director of the company in his name. He's in the early stages of his divorce which is expected to be a long drawn out affair. The article mentioned previous problems regarding child support payments for one of his children, outside of his current marriage.

I would have to wonder where a lot of it went, he lives in Antrim which wouldn't be particularly expensive area to buy a house in the grand scheme of things. My initial thoughts were drinking, gambling and drugs but I haven't seen any suggestion of that.

I'll happily be proved wrong but I've thought for a long time Allen won't reach the top of snooker again. Looking at him he doesn't look remotely healthy, overweight, heavy bags under his eyes. He's only 35 but looks at least 10 years or more older.

volono

I remember him mentioning himself and Stephen Maguire are firm mates on the circuit, always have a drink etc. I think it'd be fair to say we all enjoy a drink but Maguire was getting interviewed during the season and basically said if he's not going on the lash every few days he starts losing it, covid aside with the venues last season that doesn't sound great , Allen said something roughly similar afew seasons ago. Maybe the drink did play a part in it. There'll be more to come out I'd imagine, if there's one thing about Allen, he isn't afraid to speak his mind!!!

ArmaniJeanss

weemcd wrote: »

I don't particularly like Allen but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I saw screenshots of the article but I can't find it now on twitter.

From memory, Allen resigned as director of the company in his name. He's in the early stages of his divorce which is expected to be a long drawn out affair. The article mentioned previous problems regarding child support payments for one of his children, outside of his current marriage.

I would have to wonder where a lot of it went, he lives in Antrim which wouldn't be particularly expensive area to buy a house in the grand scheme of things. My initial thoughts were drinking, gambling and drugs but I haven't seen any suggestion of that.

I'll happily be proved wrong but I've thought for a long time Allen won't reach the top of snooker again. Looking at him he doesn't look remotely healthy, overweight, heavy bags under his eyes. He's only 35 but looks at least 10 years or more older.

2 families worth of child maintenance, plus the divorce proceedings.
Quite plausibly that's taking up to 75% of his income.

Also saw something on reddit about him opening a snooker hall in January 2020, which is obviously in hindsight the nut worst time to have been taking out a commercial loan for a leisure industry endeavour.

waynescales1

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

2 families worth of child maintenance, plus the divorce proceedings.
Quite plausibly that's taking up to 75% of his income.

No wonder he's depressed.