Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

biko

Oreo kicking in open doors. No one has claimed trans people don't exist.

biko

biko wrote: »

Oreo kicking in open doors. No one has claimed trans people don't exist.

Not conflating;

But white people exist

Paedophiles exist

Furries exist.

Murderers exist.

So what biscuit people?

rightmove

mary robinson exists and she will be given full platforming rights on the LLLLLLLLS

Dyr

Cienciano wrote: »

For every Gillette there's a netflix, Google, Microsoft, nike that have the same "woke" shít and are successful. And quit the opposite, companies are targeting college kids more than boomers. 18-35 is the target group for most advertising as it's seen as more lucrative.

I mean, you say "obese" people don't buy a lot of anything is clearly not true :pac:

Most the kids I know in the teens-twenties range think the woke stuff is nonsense and laugh at it. 30s is a different story

Maybe I only know alt right nazis in the younger age range.

Cienciano

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Please tell me you can see the difference between these two things?

Trying to learn the difference. Was Colin Kapernick getting blackballed cancel culture? OR the Dixie Chicks?

If you don't know, it's here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicks#2003%E2%80%932005:_Iraq_War_comments_and_backlash

Cienciano

Cienciano wrote: »

Trying to learn the difference. Was Colin Kapernick getting blackballed cancel culture? OR the Dixie Chicks?

If you don't know, it's here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicks#2003%E2%80%932005:_Iraq_War_comments_and_backlash

Cancel culture isn’t new and isn’t left wing, was traditionally right wing. Mostly Christian. Used to be called censorship.

Achebe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All the companies you mention are doing a balancing act with their wokeness.. and it's still early days on the backlash against woke agendas. There's momentum building on consumers not having patience with these agenda driven companies.. and the whole go-woke go-broke was more to do with bad strategy or shoddy productions, than an actual reaction from consumers. For now.

However, the "anti"-woke sentiment is growing rather fast online, which will feed gradually into other areas. I'd expect to continue see companies show their wokeness for another year or two, before there's enough resistance to make them pause in consideration.. but that day is coming. Thankfully.

A few years ago, YouTube was full of "anti SJW" people. That didn't really amount to much. I doubt the people you're on about will either.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Cienciano wrote: »

Trying to learn the difference. Was Colin Kapernick getting blackballed cancel culture? OR the Dixie Chicks?

If you don't know, it's here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicks#2003%E2%80%932005:_Iraq_War_comments_and_backlash

I don’t agree with anybody being cancelled, whatever their politics. I don’t agree with what happened to the Dixie Chicks. I remember that happening at the time and I did not agree with it.

So again, do you not understand the difference between cancel culture (people losing employment because of their stated views for example) and consumers choosing not to buy products from moralising companies? That choice to not buy from a company might not even be a strong stance or reaction, just a weariness at being preached to by a commercial concern who in pretty much every case is only moralising in an attempt to boost their bottom line. This has happened to me recently. I have stopped buying a certain brand because I disagree with something they took a stance on recently. It’s not something that gets me fired up. I simply do not reach for their product on the shelves now. I just want companies to shut the fuck up and sell me things. I don’t need to be preached to. It’s only ever about the bottom line for companies to take these stances and I consider it hopelessly naive to think otherwise. A consumer choosing not to buy a product is very different from a concerted effort to blacklist somebody whether it’s loss of employment or being stopped from speaking at a university because of your views on transgender people like Germaine Greer or being blacklisted from radio stations over criticism of Bush in the case of the Dixie Chicks.

I think you hoped that the Dixie Chicks and Colin Kaepernick examples would be gotchas. Nah, not for me.

km991148

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cancel culture isn’t new and isn’t left wing, was traditionally right wing. Mostly Christian. Used to be called censorship.

Yeah, I don't subscribe to this notion that cancel culture is the preserve of "the left" only. I know plenty on all sides of the political spectrum that cry over things they don't agree with. I think in most cases it's absolutely absurd - if you don't like something by all means campaign to change - but why get rid altogether?

If a celebrity makes a mistake it depends how they handle it after. Same with the bigger things like 'defund' groups you see. Don't like RTE? fine, buy try and have it changed before you ban it completely. It's like there are no shades of grey anymore. No context or understanding.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

km991148 wrote: »

Yeah, I don't subscribe to this notion that cancel culture is the preserve of "the left" only. I know plenty on all sides of the political spectrum that cry over things they don't agree with. I think in most cases it's absolutely absurd - if you don't like something by all means campaign to change - but why get rid altogether?

If a celebrity makes a mistake it depends how they handle it after. Same with the bigger things like 'defund' groups you see. Don't like RTE? fine, buy try and have it changed before you ban it completely. It's like there are no shades of grey anymore. No context or understanding.

Actually, some of the critics of modern day cancel culture have made this very point. Andrew Doyle, the left wing commentator behind the Titania McGrath parody Twitter account, has made the point that modern day woke culture has a lot in common with right wing censorship of the past. He made the point that that particular branch of the left wing are the new Mary Whitehouses. I find it hard to disagree with him. They certainly have the Mary Whitehouse-esque humourlessness down pat. It’s an interesting development.

There are still right wing groups trying to get things banned. But why are strands of the left wing now joining them?

km991148

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Actually, some of the critics of modern day cancel culture have made this very point. Andrew Doyle, the left wing commentator behind the Titania McGrath parody Twitter account, has made the point that modern day woke culture has a lot in common with right wing censorship of the past. He made the point that that particular branch of the left wing are the new Mary Whitehouses. I find it hard to disagree with him. They certainly have the Mary Whitehouse-esque humourlessness down pat. It’s an interesting development.

There are still right wing groups trying to get things banned. But why are strands of the left wing now joining them?

It's almost like it's not really something that can be attributed to one political leaning, but more a general human behaviour. Even something is intolerable people want it gone with little motivation for understanding, reflection or change.

Anyway, that's twice today I've went off topic, let the woke bashing continue!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

km991148 wrote: »

It's almost like it's not really something that can be attributed to one political leaning, but more a general human behaviour. Even something is intolerable people want it gone with little motivation for understanding, reflection or change.

Anyway, that's twice today I've went off topic, let the woke bashing continue!

It’s a new development that parts of the left wing are getting involved and it’s making many left-leaning people - myself included - start to feel politically homeless. Not so much here in Ireland but if I still lived in the UK, I’d no longer vote for Labour. And I wouldn’t vote Tory. And definitely not Lib Dem or Greens. I would not know who to vote for if I still lived there. So, it matters.

km991148

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

It’s a new development that parts of the left wing are getting involved and it’s making many left-leaning people - myself included - start to feel politically homeless. Not so much here in Ireland but if I still lived in the UK, I’d no longer vote for Labour. And I wouldn’t vote Tory. And definitely not Lib Dem or Greens. I would not know who to vote for if I still lived there. So, it matters.

Yeah, it matters, I just didn't want to drag the thread away with further musings. This is supposed to be an after hours thread about the woke in general.

Achebe

Achebe wrote: »

A few years ago, YouTube was full of "anti SJW" people. That didn't really amount to much. I doubt the people you're on about will either.

They're influencers. They influence other people with the information they release (which is often not available through mainstream media), and encourage discussion on topics. They're not there to "do" anything themselves.

Just as the host of feminist driven websites, and yes, youtube channels did influence people to believe certain things to be true, and in turn, that affected their actions in their own lives. In some cases, motivating them into creating chapters/groups of their own, to promote the same agenda.

And we're now, in an even more internet focused society than before, so the influence of these people can be greater than ever before.

Sure.. perhaps you're completely resistant to the influence that others may have over you.. but the same can't be said for a lot of other people out there, especially those who view their influencers as some kind of rolemodel.

Necro

Mod:

Folks, quit acting the muppet or this thread will be locked. I've just deleted 9 posts that are outright trolling.

RandRuns and COVID - don't post in this thread again

Cienciano

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I don’t agree with anybody being cancelled, whatever their politics. I don’t agree with what happened to the Dixie Chicks. I remember that happening at the time and I did not agree with it.

So again, do you not understand the difference between cancel culture (people losing employment because of their stated views for example) and consumers choosing not to buy products from moralising companies? That choice to not buy from a company might not even be a strong stance or reaction, just a weariness at being preached to by a commercial concern who in pretty much every case is only moralising in an attempt to boost their bottom line. This has happened to me recently. I have stopped buying a certain brand because I disagree with something they took a stance on recently. It’s not something that gets me fired up. I simply do not reach for their product on the shelves now. I just want companies to shut the fuck up and sell me things. I don’t need to be preached to. It’s only ever about the bottom line for companies to take these stances and I consider it hopelessly naive to think otherwise. A consumer choosing not to buy a product is very different from a concerted effort to blacklist somebody whether it’s loss of employment or being stopped from speaking at a university because of your views on transgender people like Germaine Greer or being blacklisted from radio stations over criticism of Bush in the case of the Dixie Chicks.

I think you hoped that the Dixie Chicks and Colin Kaepernick examples would be gotchas. Nah, not for me.

I just wanted to see if someone could admit the right do the same thing. At least you did, fair play. RandRuns couldn't do it, had to make excuses.
That's all.

Cordell

Deleted User wrote: »

Cancel culture isn’t new and isn’t left wing, was traditionally right wing. Mostly Christian. Used to be called censorship.

How so? Was there common to have your life destroyed for merely saying things that went against the official narrative? Because I can tell you where this actually happened, in the far left socialist Eastern Europe.

whisky_galore

Rothko wrote: »

Honestly, what is the point in that?

If I were cynical, which I am, a subtle change in packaging and boom - worldwide free advertising for the company who make Mr/Mrs/Whatever Potato Head toys.

Max exposure for very little cost.

AllForIt

If the Right were cancelling people left right and centre most of the same people contributing on this thread would be criticizing them as well,including myself, I'd imagine. But it is the Left that are at hand right now so there is no point in 'musing' about how the right do it/used to do it. To do so just looks like a sneaky attempt to suggest this thread is really an anti-left thread created by rabid right wingers, which is isn't.

Also, as far as I can see anti-woke sentiment is everywhere at the moment (thankfully), and you don't have to be part of some echo chamber online to see it. Hardly a day goes by you don't see people complaining about it either on daytime TV, rolling news or talk radio without even looking for it. When you hear ppl say there is noting to worry about, your making a big fuss about nothing THAT is when you ears should prick up and be alert to what's going on.

Kermit.de.frog

I take real issue with those today who intentionally blur the line between sex and gender because it has consequences particularly when it comes to males competing in female sports (or the other way round although oddly that doesn't seem to happen as much!). The second (gender) is a choice, the first is a fact.

People are free to make whatever choices they like in their own lives and that includes gender. I draw the line myself when basic fundamental biological fact is challenged on top of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTNh3d1LLk

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

How so? Was there common to have your life destroyed for merely saying things that went against the official narrative? Because I can tell you where this actually happened, in the far left socialist Eastern Europe.

?

To the first part yes. Criticism of Catholicism etc was not safe in many jobs.

Neither Catholicism or modern cancel culture, as horrible as it is, are comparable to communism.

Rodney Bathgate

Cordell wrote: »

How so? Was there common to have your life destroyed for merely saying things that went against the official narrative? Because I can tell you where this actually happened, in the far left socialist Eastern Europe.

More rewriting of history by the left.

Rodney Bathgate

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

More rewriting of history by the left.

You guys all need to read a history book.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

How so? Was there common to have your life destroyed for merely saying things that went against the official narrative? Because I can tell you where this actually happened, in the far left socialist Eastern Europe.

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

More rewriting of history by the left.

Have some people here already forgotten about the iron curtain, the countries of Eastern Europe were mostly under communist control and as such their history education was very limited, and they were also told only "one version of the truth" any contrarian voices were silenced.

Achebe

Deleted User wrote: »

You guys all need to read a history book.

There's more chance of the regular posters on this thread coming out as gender fluid than of them reading a history book.

inforfun

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/amanda-gorman-poem-translation-dutch-b1808315.html

When you are woke but too white.

Rodney Bathgate

Achebe wrote: »

There's more chance of the regular posters on this thread coming out as gender fluid than of them reading a history book.

Enough about your gender fluids, thanks.

Achebe

Deleted User wrote: »

?

To the first part yes. Criticism of Catholicism etc was not safe in many jobs.

Neither Catholicism or modern cancel culture, as horrible as it is, are comparable to communism.

Let's take the US as an example, seeing as it's apparently the home of wokeness today.

In the mid 2000s, publically opposing the Iraq War in the US was risky move. The Dixie Chicks most famously found that out, but it seems some posters' memory doesn't even go back that far.

In the 50s, being remotely left-wing could result in being smeared with accusations of being a communist. Many people were blacklisted from working because of this.

There have indeed been times when the right were very happy to "cancel" people.

Achebe

inforfun wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/amanda-gorman-poem-translation-dutch-b1808315.html

When you are woke but too white.

I hear there's a new translation of Confucius coming out. I suggest we get a translator who is actually an ancient Chinese scholar.

Rothko

Achebe wrote: »

There's more chance of the regular posters on this thread coming out as gender fluid than of them reading a history book.

A dig with no substance.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You guys all need to read a history book.

You all need to make more realistic/suitable comparisons...

You're comparing apples with nukes.

jam_mac_jam

Achebe wrote: »

Let's take the US as an example, seeing as it's apparently the home of wokeness today.

In the mid 2000s, publically opposing the Iraq War in the US was risky move. The Dixie Chicks most famously found that out, but it seems some posters' memory doesn't even go back that far.

In the 50s, being remotely left-wing could result in being smeared with accusations of being a communist. Many people were blacklisted from working because of this.

There have indeed been times when the right were very happy to "cancel" people.

It was completely a right wing thing. Same as censorship. I always associated that more with the right. Has completely swung the other way.

You were a monster if you criticised the Iraq war. Freedom fries for gods sake because the French wouldn't support their silly war.

Achebe

Achebe wrote: »

There have indeed been times when the right were very happy to "cancel" people.

I honestly don't care who started it... I'm more bothered by who is using it right now, and it's effect on society.

Achebe

Rothko wrote: »

A dig with no substance.

There's a lot of refusal to engage with any sort of historical context on this thread. Just look at the recent mental gymnastics to deny that right wingers have ever tried to silence those who think differently. Not that two wrongs make a right of course.

Achebe

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly don't care who started it... I'm more bothered by who is using it right now, and it's effect on society.

That's fair enough. I was only pointing all of this out because some people apparently have no historical knowledge and think this never happened.

jam_mac_jam

It's obviously not as bad as communism because nobody is going to stick you in the gulag.

The similarity is being forced out of jobs or your life ruined for your political beliefs, which is meant to be protected in a democracy. I don't agree with or want to defend a lot of conservative beliefs but people have a right to have them.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Cienciano wrote: »

I just wanted to see if someone could admit the right do the same thing. At least you did, fair play. RandRuns couldn't do it, had to make excuses.
That's all.

Well, I genuinely hate cancel culture. So it was an easy question for me to answer. It really genuine bugs me and I’ve thought about it a lot. No matter who does it, I hate it, mainly because I believe that it breeds resentment and can actually cause malignant political movements to foment. I want everything out in the open and discussed. The Dixie Chicks should be able to say they hate Bush. People can then challenge them on their views. Germaine Greer should be able to say that she doesn’t believe that transgender women are women. She can also be challenged.

It’s both right and left these days. It used to mostly just be a right wing phenomenon. Does the left really want to adopt one of the worst aspects of right wing politics?

Cordell

Does the left really want to adopt one of the worst aspects of right wing politics?

Personal freedoms, liberties and responsibility, these are the right wing things that scare the leftist
Censorship and cancel culture are far left and far right things, this is what the left is adopting. Extremism and fundamentalism.

Biafranlivemat

Danzy wrote: »

The Left are starting to view Asians as problematic, they don't fit the narrative, same is happening with Jews and even with African immigrants in America.

It's no coincidence that all 3 groups are the top performers in American society.

Asians in the US are already in some cases, treated as being "White"
The two graphs will explain everything.
The whole People of Colour united against the racist white people nonsense isn't going to last forever.

Biafranlivemat

RandRuns wrote: »

True, there are some companies that seem to make plenty off the back of being woke (Ben & Jerrys is another one), but I think the audience is critical - Gillette got hammered because they basically told their core buyers that they were bad people. Netflix can spout all the woke rubbish they want, because it doesn't affect their customers - Homeland and Ozark are still the same shows, whether Netflix pretends to be woke or not. Nike pitched their wokeness well- they basically persuaded their gullible customers (who buy rubbish shoes made by child slaves for 50 or 100 times their worth) that everybody else was bad, but they were good.
Targeting college kids is only a worthwhile exercise if they will buy from you - college kids won't buy Gillette, no matter how woke - the small percentage of them that shave buy cheaper brands. Netflix and Nike are prime targets for the college dollar.

Obese loners I said, not ordinary obese people

I subscribe to Netflix to watch The crown, cancel my subscription as soon as the season is watched. I don't pay for their crap all year.

Biafranlivemat

Cienciano wrote: »

Colin kaepernick was a victim on cancer culture from the right

The truth is Colin kaepernick was a below average Quarterback.
He cancelled himself by his performance on the field.

If it wasn't for his mouth, very few people would know him today.

Biafranlivemat

Cienciano wrote: »

Ah, so the Dixie Chicks would be an example then.

They didn't get cancelled, they committed suicide.
They condemned President Bush in front of a foreign audience.
If they had condemned him in their native Dallas, it would have blown over in a day or two.
Big difference, they came across as spineless.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You all need to make more realistic/suitable comparisons...

You're comparing apples with nukes.

No I’m comparing modern woke with previous right wing censorship. It’s the guys who compare modern wokism - which I despise - with communism who are comparing apples with nukes.

If you don’t think you had to hold your tongue in Catholic Ireland to keep your job, particularly in the public sector, you don’t know much history. And of course you couldn’t be openly gay, or pregnant outside marriage as, say, a teacher. And it is in education where opinions are more than likely to get you fired today as well. This time from the left.

Movies were banned, ie cancelled by the state. Books were also banned.

Even in the US banned books. Huckleberry Finn was banned by the right and again now by the left.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/789/adventures-of-huckleberry-finn

A 1907 article in the Library Journal reported that Mark Twain’s Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (1885) had been banned somewhere every year since its publication.

https://www.marshall.edu/library/bannedbooks/the-adventures-of-huckleberry-finn/

2019: Citing the use of racial slurs in the books, Duluth (MN) school district administrators decided to remove Twain’s book and To Kill a Mockingbird from the curriculum “to protect the dignity of our students” and not require them to read books that marginalize them.

It’s a good canary in the mine, Huck.

Biafranlivemat

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Biscuits for fup sake lol

https://twitter.com/Oreo/status/1365038991469281280

Black Conservatives are called "Oreos" by Democrats, because they Black on the outside and White in the center.

Biafranlivemat

Cienciano wrote: »

Trying to learn the difference. Was Colin Kapernick getting blackballed cancel culture? OR the Dixie Chicks?

If you don't know, it's here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicks#2003%E2%80%932005:_Iraq_War_comments_and_backlash

Yes Wikipedia, a website known for being factual and having no left wing bias:rolleyes:

Biafranlivemat

Deleted User wrote: »

?

To the first part yes. Criticism of Catholicism etc was not safe in many jobs.

Neither Catholicism or modern cancel culture, as horrible as it is, are comparable to communism.

My grandfather had a very low opinion of his local parish priest back in the 40's.It didn't affect his business.
Non of the villagers boycotted him and, yes everybody including the priest knew what those opinions were.

Biafranlivemat

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

My grandfather had a very low opinion of his local parish priest back in the 40's.It didn't affect his business.
Non of the villagers boycotted him and, yes everybody including the priest knew what those opinions were.

There were boycotts of Protestant shops in Wexford at the request of the local priest, who wanted the shop keepers - a mixed marriage couple - to bring up their child as Catholic.

On the whole though the self employed were and are freer to speak their mind than other groups. A teacher who voiced unfavourable opinions the priest or bishop would be reprimanded and possibly lose a job.

Biafranlivemat

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

My grandfather had a very low opinion of his local parish priest back in the 40's.It didn't affect his business.
Non of the villagers boycotted him and, yes everybody including the priest knew what those opinions were.

There were boycotts of Protestant shops in Wexford at the request of the local priest, who wanted the shop keepers - a mixed marriage couple - to bring up their child as Catholic.

On the whole though the self employed were and are freer to speak their mind than other groups. A teacher who voiced unfavourable opinions the priest or bishop would be reprimanded and possibly lose a job.

Biafranlivemat

Achebe wrote: »

Let's take the US as an example, seeing as it's apparently the home of wokeness today.

In the mid 2000s, publically opposing the Iraq War in the US was risky move. The Dixie Chicks most famously found that out, but it seems some posters' memory doesn't even go back that far.

In the 50s, being remotely left-wing could result in being smeared with accusations of being a communist. Many people were blacklisted from working because of this.

There have indeed been times when the right were very happy to "cancel" people.

In the mid 2000s, publically opposing the Iraq War in the US was risky move.


It was ? who was fired from they're job and have their lives destroyed forever.
I was not very happy about the invasion and the horrible occupation of Iraq
Everyone knew that at work.
Nowadays if I walk into work next Monday morning and complain about the BLM gang, I would be fired before noon.


And I think you are talking about the "McCarthyism" in the 50's.
That was terrible and I believe he was censured by the Senate.

And don't forget that a young Robert F. Kennedy, a civil rights champion was an assistant counsel to the subcommittee.
Another great "Liberal"Kennedy.

Corben Dallas

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

They didn't get cancelled, they committed suicide.
They condemned President Bush in front of a foreign audience.
If they had condemned him in their native Dallas, it would have blown over in a day or two.
Big difference, they came across as spineless.

Come on u cant really suggest this would be the case.... more like...If they had condemned him in their native Dallas, they would have been blown over up in a day or two.