Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

When COVID is over, get out and talk to some real people. You'll be hard pressed to any wokies.

I arrived before covid hit Ireland in any noticeable manner.. I did a few months travelling around, and going out to bars/clubs/events. And... I'm sorry.. but it's definitely out there among the population.. in bar discussions, and even a toastmasters event I attended. I wasn't trying to find wokies. I was seeking some fun, and some feminine distraction.

But sure, if you don't want to hear it.. I'm sure you're fully capable of ignoring when it comes up.

silverharp

Tony EH wrote: »

...and you're not reading what I'm writing. I haven't said it was "just an American thing", nor did I say "it was only on the internet" either.

so it is a real world thing then , so is worthy of discussion

It's not really anywhere except the internet, schools, colleges, radio, newspapers government, NGOs, charities... but apart from that, what HAVE the Romans done for us?

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

Well.. very little actually, since boards is my own social media in Ireland.. and beyond that, I'm stuck with family/friends. I have given some lecture series here but nothing remotely related to this subject matter.

Take a look at the threads you occupy and what you post about. How much of it is this woke business. If you're in numerous threads like this one on Boards.ie, then you're inevitably getting a very skewed vision of what's happening.

And this thread is perfect example of the baloney that is freaking out about woke this, that and t'other. Because the examples are mostly just silly little things from the web that everyone will forget about in a couple of weeks.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, you will. I don't. I don't have twitter. I don't have facebook. I don't have any of the other social media apps. It's not on wechat, or weibo which I do use. It is on RTE which I watch quite a bit.

Neither do I. Twitter is probably the worst thing on the mainstream web as it's only shouting. If it isn't some Trump obsessed twat, it's some other fool yapping about milk being sexist or some such nonsense.

It all just noise.

But people seek this out and proliferate it around to other areas, when it should die in a sea of silence. Which it would, if people weren't so exercised by it. But people do love to be outraged.

In the real world, the sky isn't falling down though.

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure. But then there are heaps of examples showing where it's been accepted into mainstream society too. Not Irish society, but if it's being accepted into both the UK and the US, it's going to gain traction here too.

Again, in real life it's tiny in both the US and the UK. You'll hear about something online and it gets blown out of proportion. When you go to these countries, it can't even be seen.

Deleted User wrote: »

Okie dokie. You've decided to dismiss it as being irrelevant. I've decided that what has happened in the US, and to a lesser extent in the UK, could happen here too.

The more obsessed you become with it, the more you'll see.

The fact of the matter is, most people in the real world don't even know what you'd mean if you said "woke" to them in a conversation.

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps it's just a difference in perspective. I've spent the last decade and more abroad, and I've been returning here every two years or so. I stay a month or two and head off. This year I got stuck due to Covid, and have been here a year.. and I see the influence of the woke philosophy in RTE and radio. In the interviews done, or the attitudes presented about feminism, or trans. The lack of resistance, and the lack of people calling others out on this BS. It's here in Ireland, and I've seen it growing in scope over the years.

You're seeking it though. You're primed to see it, because it has become a thing for you to be scared of.

Personally, I don't give a fuck. I'm old enough to have met plenty of people with crazy opinions in my life and plenty of people who label you as something because of a single sentence you've uttered. These people aren't new. They have always been around. The thing is, most people don't care. They're just people with odd, and terrifically niche, opinions.

It's become more prevalent on TV, because they think there's a market there. And there is. The likes of television, film and whatnot are only interested in viewership and expanded audiences. So, they'll ride that current wave, until the next thing comes along.

I don't watch too much TV, as there's little on to hold my interest and one could be forgiven for thinking that TV was only for women and gay people nowadays.

But so what? It's merely a current business trend that will get replaced by something else down the line. I don't see it as anything to be worried about.

Tony EH

silverharp wrote: »

so it is a real world thing then , so is worthy of discussion

...again, you're not reading what's being written. I didn't say it wasn't a "real world thing", nor did I say it wasn't "worthy of discussion".

If something is amplified by the web, it's because of someone in the real world. That still doesn't make it anything but a miniscule part of the real world that the vast majority of people won't have contact with.

Likewise, people can discuss it. People can discuss anything they wish. But pulling one's hair out over it and claiming all sorts of nonsensical things is just as ridiculous as the nonsensical thing that's the topic of outrage.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Take a look at the threads you occupy and what you post about. How much of it is this woke business. If you're in numerous threads like this one on Boards.ie, then you're inevitably getting a very skewed vision of what's happening.

Ok. As one poster accused me of doing (as an insult), I lurk on this thread, posting sometimes. The majority of my threads are related to immigration, sexism, equality, feminism, and men's rights. So... not that much woke nonsense.. (feminism is likely the place where most of this comes up)

As for skewed vision... come on.. everyone who has an opinion, and isn't wishy washy with those opinions, is skewed. At least I don't hold any illusions about mine.

And this thread is perfect example of the baloney that is freaking out about woke this, that and t'other. Because the examples are mostly just silly little things from the web that everyone will forget about in a couple of weeks.

Sure. This thread is aimed to be a thread of extremes. It's intended to make people gasp in outrage or bemusement at how screwy other people are.

At the same time, there are examples of where this stuff has been, not only accepted into mainstream society, but solidly embraced.

Neither do I. Twitter is probably the worst thing on the mainstream web as it's only shouting. If it isn't some Trump obsessed twat, it's some other fool yapping about milk being sexist or some such nonsense.

It all just noise.

But people seek this out and proliferate it around to other areas, when it should die in a sea of silence. Which it would, if people weren't so exercised by it. But people do love to be outraged.

And yet, you were convinced that I must be trawling through the internet to find this junk. I don't need to. I can find a variety of the same sentiments on RTE or on Irish radio.

In the real world, the sky isn't falling down though.

Nor is it in the US. I must admit I'm rather surprised by your attitude here, because I've always considered you to be a reasonable poster. And yet, you've repeatedly sought to represent the objections here as being extremes, and so worthy of being dismissed. I must admit that I hadn't expected such a tactic from you, on such a topic.

Again, in real life it's tiny in both the US and the UK. You'll hear about something online and it gets blown out of proportion. When you go to these countries, it can't even be seen.

The numbers of actual trans people in the Western world is minuscule. How much effect has their movement had on various countries?
edit: How much larger is the woke movement, and yes, it's much much larger....?

The more obsessed you become with it, the more you'll see.

The fact of the matter is, most people in the real world don't even know what you'd mean if you said "woke" to them in a conversation.

You keep doing this. Obsessed. Ohhh... you're obsessed because you object and criticise this rubbish, as opposed to simple dismissing it all as nonsense, and assuming that everyone else will think the way you do.

Come on. Seriously>?

Nah. The older I get, the more I realise how many stupid easily led people there are out there.

You're seeking it though. You're primed to see it, because it has become a thing for you to be scared of.

Whereas you're so convinced that you're right, that you're unwilling to accept what people have written... It's been said, time and time again, but you keep dismissing what posters have written in favor of your own opinion.

Personally, I don't give a fuck. I'm old enough to have met plenty of people with crazy opinions in my life and plenty of people who label you as something because of a single sentence you've uttered. These people aren't new. They have always been around. The thing is, most people don't care. They're just people with odd, and terrifically niche, opinions.

It's become more prevalent on TV, because they think there's a market there. And there is. The likes of television, film and whatnot are only interested in viewership and expanded audiences. So, they'll ride that current wave, until the next thing comes along.

I don't watch too much TV, as there's little on to hold my interest and one could be forgiven for thinking that TV was only for women and gay people nowadays.

But so what? It's merely a current business trend that will get replaced by something else down the line. I don't see it as anything to be worried about.

Fine.

No seriously. Fine. I'm not going to try convince you otherwise. You have a right to think this way, and I'm not going to try diminish your logic in believing that this is all hooey. At the same time, couldn't you step back and let those who want to resist this crap, do so, without your criticism?

AllForIt

I don't watch too much TV, as there's little on to hold my interest and one could be forgiven for thinking that TV was only for women and gay people nowadays.

Oh! So you have noticed the wokeness then Tony! And you didn't even have to seek it out on Twitter.

Tony EH

AllForIt wrote: »

Oh! So you have noticed the wokeness then Tony! And you didn't even have to seek it out on Twitter.

Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha or something. Because that ain't working too well.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok...

I'm not going to break down your post bit by bit, cos I don't have the time.

But, it's your posting makes it appear that you are overly concerned with this rubbish. Not to the extent that some other Boardsies are, some of whom are utterly absurd with their framing. But that's another story.

Where we primarily disagree on this is that you seem to believe that this is something that is a major thing happening that's impacting to a serious degree.

Whereas I don't think it's anything but a minor, niche, triviality and most of the outrageous stuff is akin to Eurotrash than anything that deserves any more attention.

Barna77

Tony EH wrote: »

If you spend time seeking out this rubbish, you will find it. But you'll find all sorts of crazy shit on the internet. Shit that you'll be hard pressed to find in reality. Look at 90% of the examples on this thread. It's some nobody online typing something ridiculous, that's patently ridiculous to mostly everyone else. It doesn't deserve any more than a ha ha, and then you move on.

You find that kind of bs that people, who now have too much spare time; write on Twitter believing they'll be on the spotlight. Look at me, I'm a warrior, let's change history blahdy blahdy blah

But then it spreads to institutions, or mainstream media, or the teacher giving out about Sanders and so on.

Look at the morons of Qanon, who were marginal group of online crazies and see where they are now.
For the record, I'm not comparing Wokes to Qanon. Im only referring to its growth.


But i had a few whiskeys and I may digress

AllForIt

Tony EH wrote: »

Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha or something. Because that ain't working too well.

Okay, try this for a gotcha....

Your postilion doesn't make much sense. You've come into this thread repeatedly and made the same point over and over again. That is that these woke ideas don't have any weight in the 'real world', we are all making a fuss out of nothing, we seek it there we seek it everywhere etc etc, we should ignore it and it will all go away soon.

If that really is your position then why don't you apply that exact same logic to this thread yourself?

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

I'm not going to break down your post bit by bit, cos I don't have the time.

But, it's your posting makes it appear that you are overly concerned with this rubbish. Not to the extent that some other Boardsies are, some of whom are utterly absurd with their framing. But that's another story.

Where we primarily disagree on this is that you seem to believe that this is something that is a major thing happening that's impacting to a serious degree.

Whereas I don't think it's anything but a minor, niche, triviality and most of the outrageous stuff is akin to Eurotrash than anything that deserves any more attention.

Nope. I find it to be a slow moving insidious cancer in society. The exact same way that it gained traction in the US, and has become established but still relatively minor in the UK. At the same time though, it has become established in the UK, and I could easily see it as developing to the same extent as the US. It started slow in the US. It started slow in the UK. and in both cases, it gained momentum in academia, and by political groups seeking to virtue signal, until it had a momentum of it's own. And that momentum leads to real life consequences...

I don't particularly appreciate your viewpoint because it mirrors the dismissive attitude that allowed wokism to grow in the US and the UK.. while also seeking to diminish/dismiss those who are concerned about it.

The truth is that I find the people who are completely disinterested to be more understandable.. because they have no interest either way. However, over the last few pages, you have repeatedly sought to diminish the posts by those who do object to this nonsense. You have said that you're not bothered by it, but you've invested a lot of typing in addressing those who talk about this topic... and that screams some investment...

So.. nope. You disagree, grand.

Dyr

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Sarah Milican in 19th erased, Eddie Izzard at 15th is the 'funniest female comedian'
(Sh1tty poll/survey but still - what are these people on?)

https://twitter.com/ChristianCawley/status/1357586804678021120

Women will finally climb to the top thanks to the efforts of transexual men.

Who'd have guessed all we needed for equality was for men to transfer over to the other side and boost their stats.

Ah modern feminism, that petard you hoisted yourself on is so amusing.

Dyr

Tony EH wrote: »

I'm not going to break down your post bit by bit, cos I don't have the time.

But, it's your posting makes it appear that you are overly concerned with this rubbish. Not to the extent that some other Boardsies are, some of whom are utterly absurd with their framing. But that's another story.

Where we primarily disagree on this is that you seem to believe that this is something that is a major thing happening that's impacting to a serious degree.

Whereas I don't think it's anything but a minor, niche, triviality and most of the outrageous stuff is akin to Eurotrash than anything that deserves any more attention.

Tony EH

Barna77 wrote: »

You find that kind of bs that people, who now have too much spare time; write on Twitter believing they'll be on the spotlight. Look at me, I'm a warrior, let's change history blahdy blahdy blah

But then it spreads to institutions, or mainstream media, or the teacher giving out about Sanders and so on.

Look at the morons of Qanon, who were marginal group of online crazies and see where they are now.
For the record, I'm not comparing Wokes to Qanon. Im only referring to its growth.


But i had a few whiskeys and I may digress

Of course. There are those who'll try and grandstand on something and try to make capital out of it. But there has always been that type of person and organisation around.

The attention seeking on the back of a cause is nothing new. But most of that tripe is easily dismissed. I don't see it as a cause of much concern.

The Qanon crowd are a different kettle of fish entirel, though, you're right. Most woke silliness is harmless, in comparison, and actually provides a laugh more often than not.

Tony EH

AllForIt wrote: »

Okay, try this for a gotcha....

Your postilion doesn't make much sense. You've come into this thread repeatedly and made the same point over and over again. That is that these woke ideas don't have any weight in the 'real world', we are all making a fuss out of nothing, we seek it there we seek it everywhere etc etc, we should ignore it and it will all go away soon.

If that really is your position then why don't you apply that exact same logic to this thread yourself?

That's not a gotcha either. :pac:

Danzy

Tony EH wrote: »

Woke has bugger all to do with "the left". It's only held up by the right like that to use as a stick to beat the enemy with.

The fact is these types have always been around. They're just amplified by the web and people getting their knickers in a twist over some ejit they read on Twitter. The vast majority of people, left and right, think their fools and/or disingenuous platformers. And the more these people speak, they more they get exposed. But there is nothing really new here, except if you're a kid and have never come across them before.

It's telling that the majority of this nonsense comes from America. The land of nonsense. But America has long had a reputation for being ridiculous.

This woke thing, like all crazy/eccentric/platforming will always be niche. It's the fools that loose their shit over it that are worse.

Woke has taken over the modern left, across all analysis, across all parties.

Maybe you haven't been a member of a left wing party in the last 20 years.

Lad, if you think the Woke in the left are a flash in the pan or a small annoying clique, then you are living in the past.

Woke has taken over the left and it's killing it. I hate that but I do not pretend otherwise.

Maybe you haven't been politically active on the left in the last 5 years. I have to presume that or else you are being blind by subconscious choice.

I suspect that I'd agree with you on 90% politically, you come across as very reasonable but I think your missing the changing tides.

Danzy

Tony EH wrote: »

When COVID is over, get out and talk to some real people. You'll be hard pressed to any wokies.

In fairness Tony, the modern left and many working class people are miles apart, a class divide.

You mostly don't see people with callused hands on the left today. Very far from it.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. I find it to be a slow moving insidious cancer in society. The exact same way that it gained traction in the US, and has become established but still relatively minor in the UK. At the same time though, it has become established in the UK, and I could easily see it as developing to the same extent as the US. It started slow in the US. It started slow in the UK. and in both cases, it gained momentum in academia, and by political groups seeking to virtue signal, until it had a momentum of it's own. And that momentum leads to real life consequences...

I don't particularly appreciate your viewpoint because it mirrors the dismissive attitude that allowed wokism to grow in the US and the UK.. while also seeking to diminish/dismiss those who are concerned about it.

The truth is that I find the people who are completely disinterested to be more understandable.. because they have no interest either way. However, over the last few pages, you have repeatedly sought to diminish the posts by those who do object to this nonsense. You have said that you're not bothered by it, but you've invested a lot of typing in addressing those who talk about this topic... and that screams some investment...

So.. nope. You disagree, grand.

Well then, we fundamentally disagree on the impact this stuff has. You think it's far more serious than I do.

However, as evidenced by this thread and, indeed, 99% of the threads on Boards where this stuff is talked about, it's mostly mickey mouse nonsense that provides the odd laugh here and there and nobody even remembers beyond its initial absurdity.

While a very small percentage, such as trans people in sports, offer something that's actually worth discussing and does have a significant impact on real people.

The reality is this, most of this stuff is absolutely harmless and of no impact whatsoever on the vast majority of people's lives.

Tony EH

Danzy wrote: »

In fairness Tony, the modern left and many working class people are miles apart, a class divide.

You mostly don't see people with callused hands on the left today. Very far from it.

LOL

Run away Danzy, the "left" are coming for you. :pac:

46 Long

Tony EH wrote: »

Most woke silliness is harmless, in comparison, and actually provides a laugh more often than not.

Try telling that to people who have lost their livelihoods and future career prospects to this nonsense.

Tony EH

46 Long wrote: »

Try telling that to people who have lost their livelihoods and future career prospects to this nonsense.

Many more people have lost jobs for other reasons like outsourcing, downsizing, and general penny pinching, financial sector gambling and rampant greed, than they have to some woke thingy, I can assure you.

Danzy

Tony EH wrote: »

LOL

Run away Danzy, the "left" are coming for you. :pac:

I consider myself on the left.

Electorally the Left across all of Europe has never been weaker, after the worst decade for Capitalism in a near century.

You think they are a fringe, you, me, others are now fringe on the left.

Honest to God lad, are you still politically active or are you outside the big cities and towns.

I wish you were right, I really do but I don't get your bubble world.

Tony EH

Danzy wrote: »

I consider myself on the left.

Electorally the Left across all of Europe has never been weaker, after the worst decade for Capitalism in a near century.

You think they are a fringe, you, me, others are now fringe on the left.

Honest to God lad, are you still politically active or are you outside the big cities and towns.

I wish you were right, I really do but I don't get your bubble world.

Look, there is a reason why there are white middle class kids playing with woke politics. It's because the left have lost.They are a minor player everywhere in the world, because the political stage is now controlled the Neo Liberals. That huge mush that is neither really right or left, but still rather conservative with regards important social items, like housing, healthcare, welfare etc. All of which have been eroded over the course of the last 20 years and for many, it's gone forever.

The left are dead. They are now just a boogeyman that the right claim are doing all sorts of things. Things they are incapable of, because they don't actually hold any power and it's beyond ridiculous to keep hearing "the left this, the left that..." when they hold no ground.

These woke egits aren't the left. They wouldn't know what left was. They're mostly interested in self aggrandizement on the back of a single cause celeb. They Tweet to try and make themselves look good to others who Tweet back and jump on meaningless # campaigns.

Left wing parties may give them the time of day, because they need all the votes they can get. But that doesn't make woke a left thing. Nor does it even make it a prevalent thing in society and it certainly is not the sky falling in either.

But the kids playing with woke politics do so, because they are the easy victories. Saying you're in favour of someone's rights is an easy route. Dealing with the truly complicated issues that face us and that will hit us real fucking hard in the future, is too difficult for them to contemplate.

You know, saying you "support" BLM is simple. You don't have to do anything beyond that. Dealing with a housing ladder that you'll never be stepping onto is far more difficult.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Tony EH wrote: »

And yet, so very American.

I believe it’s happening in UK universities too, including Oxford.

newhouse87

https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/1358202331695824897/photo/1

Renaming schools even if there information on historical figures is wrong. She says a board member that essentially even if they have labelled a historical figure as racist or some other term in the wrong, it should be left that way as the renaming group have put work in, looked up Wikipedia apparently according to some articles, doesn't matter that the research is incorrect in the case of Paul Revere, it should be left that way as otherwise it would discredit the renaming boards work which is factually wrong.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

These woke egits aren't the left. They wouldn't know what left was. They're mostly interested in self aggrandizement on the back of a single cause celeb. They Tweet to try and make themselves look good to others who Tweet back and jump on meaningless # campaigns.

You seem to be in the unfortunate position of being Left-wing and also condemning Woke-ism - which is undoubtedly a stable of the Left.

And because you're cornered, you're desperately trying to explain away Woke-ism as something not really concerned with your political stable. Instead, it's some "mush" that is neither Left nor Right.

Well, you will have to come to terms with the fact that it is now an official wing of the Left. I'm fairly confident that Woke-ists are not 50% made up of Brexiteers or Trump supporters.

There's a reason for that, too - namely, the Right is more concerned with individual freedom rather than "collective equality", the latter tending toward "suppressing" individual freedom to some degree in the name of the equality of the common good.

Black Lives Matter. Gender self-identification. Changing language because it may cause "offense". The list goes on - and it's not a bucket list of challenges set by Tommy Robinson or other Right-wing actors, that's for sure.

Come to terms with what the Left has become, Tony. Then move to the Right and fight against it.

Most ordinary working people have abandoned the Left anyway - hence Brexit and Trump. Now, much of the Left has been occupied by middle to upper-class intellectual snobs whose following are Woke-ists and mild-to-moderate old leftists.

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be in the unfortunate position of being Left-wing and also condemning Woke-ism - which is undoubtedly a stable of the Left.

And because you're cornered, you're desperately trying to explain away Woke-ism as something not really concerned with your political stable. Instead, it's some "mush" that is neither Left nor Right.

Well, you will have to come to terms with the fact that it is now an official wing of the Left. I'm fairly confident that Woke-ists are not 50% made up of Brexiteers or Trump supporters.

There's a reason for that, too - namely, the Right is more concerned with individual freedom rather than "collective equality", the latter tending toward "suppressing" individual freedom to some degree in the name of the equality of the common good.

Black Lives Matter. Gender self-identification. Changing language because it may cause "offense". The list goes on - and it's not a bucket list of challenges set by Tommy Robinson or other Right-wing actors, that's for sure.

Come to terms with what the Left has become, Tony. Then move to the Right and fight against it.

Most ordinary working people have abandoned the Left anyway - hence Brexit and Trump. Now, much of the Left has been occupied by middle to upper-class intellectual snobs whose following are Woke-ists and mild-to-moderate old leftists.

cognitive dissonance? plenty of Trump hating liberals are appalled by these developments but are afraid to punch left I guess.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

cognitive dissonance? plenty of Trump hating liberals are appalled by these developments but are afraid to punch left I guess.

Stockholm syndrome, more like.

The Left has this growing tumor and isn't quite sure what to do about it.

Condemning the tumor, even as it continues to grow, would involve crossing the political border to join the Right, which they cannot bring themselves to do.

After all, if the Right is criticizing it, the Right must be wrong - so goes their logic.

That means the Left is now in self-destruct mode - eating each other alive with an interminable diet of labels and -isms and phobias.

Ironically, it's a form of class warfare within the Left, too.

You have the modern Left, which is composed of these middle-class intellectual types - who adore all-things Woke-ist. Then you have the old Left, which is concerned with workers' rights. Middle-class intellectuals look down on the old Left workers as stupid, lazy, racist, and in need of being educated.

So much of the old Left is sick and tired of being patronized by these snobs and instead find that the Right is speaking much the same language they speak on a daily basis.

The Left should be concerned about ordinary working people, and not intellectual arguments about tearing culture asunder, about destroying the gender binary, and about dulling any sense of humor we were hitherto allowed to enjoy.

And until the Left excises this growing tumor, it will continue to bleed much of its base support to the Right.

inforfun

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/business/media/donald-mcneil-andy-mills-leave-nyt.html

Two Journalists Exit New York Times After Criticism of Past Behaviour

That is the newspaper that had no issues whatsoever with Sarah Jeong's past behaviour (on social media) and hired her.