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Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

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    #4172
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Danzy wrote: »

    Unfortunately the current leading manifestation is woke, is middle class, is righteous, isn't interested in local issues or non trendy issues.

    I heard a quote somewhere before that woke-ists would rather be right than be effective.

    I think it hit the nail head on.


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    #4173
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,348 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Gay
    • Taoiseach
    • Ministers (I'm just thinking, have we had any gay Ministers?)
    • TDs
    • Newsreaders
    • loads of successful people


    Oppressed, my eye.


    Now, in saying that, it must be difficult for any teenager if they sense they are gay, that's not easy.............


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    #4174
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,348 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I heard a quote somewhere before that woke-ists would rather be right than be effective.

    I think it hit the nail head on.



    Yes, a true socialist would focus on:


    reducing long-term unemployment
    reducing crime
    reducing consistent poverty (this may mean reducing the number of lone parents)
    making housing much more affordable


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    #4175
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Invidious wrote: »
    I know.

    Imagine that a young person's education consists of finding "white privilege, male privilege and class privilege" absolutely everywhere, training him or her to spend life as a perpetual victim. So sad.

    Well actually, I think class privilege is being kind of ignored these days. It’s how people justify calling every white person privileged even if they are incredibly socioeconomically disadvantaged.
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    The whole idea of the left is supposed to be about class structure. That seems to be completely lost. Ten years ago organisations like occupy were talking about taxes and the one per cent.

    That argument seems to have been completely abandoned. Nobody ever mentions anything to do with class any more.

    The idea that a gay or black rich person is less privileged then a poor white person is an idea I cannot accept. And not really the reality.

    I totally agree. Class struggles are being conveniently ignored these days because then it would have to be acknowledged that there are white people who very socioeconomically disadvantaged.

    Both class politics and women’s rights are very unfashionable for many progressives these days.


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    #4176
    O'Neill
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭O'Neill


    So was it wrong for SF and others to raise the issue of Gay Marriage in Northern Ireland? Given that until recently it was the only part on these islands for it to be illegal.


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    #4177
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    "There were five singers, all of them black. There were three judges all of them black and one presenter who was incidentally, yes black. The singers were all very good but can you imagine an all white line up with an all white jury and presented by a white person? No I can't either."

    Abhorrent though?
    Not really, just an observation of his, I see nothing wrong in what he is saying.
    But it is easy for the "woken" to have a go because it is not PC!


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    #4178
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He's only trying to raise fake outrage,to distract from.the uvf operating out in open and holding a show of strength and forcing people from their homes last week
    Interestingly, most of the outrage is coming from SF, so it's the typical Punch -n- Judy type of politics that goes on there, so if it is a distraction, both sides are really distracted.


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    #4179
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    Geuze wrote: »
    Gay
    • Taoiseach
    • Ministers (I'm just thinking, have we had any gay Ministers?)
    • TDs
    • Newsreaders
    • loads of successful people

    Varadkar came out as gay in 2015 while he was Minister for Health.

    Katherine Zappone, former Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, is openly lesbian. She married Ann Louise Gilligan in Canada in 2003, but they failed to have their marriage recognized under Irish law despite taking High Court action against the state in 2006.


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    #4180
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Well actually, I think class privilege is being kind of ignored these days. It’s how people justify calling every white person privileged even if they are incredibly socioeconomically disadvantaged.

    True enough. Class has largely fallen by the wayside in woke politics — partly, as you note, because it interferes with the narrative that every white person is privileged over every person of color, every man privileged over every woman, every heterosexual privileged over every homosexual, etc.

    The claim that some poor white boy from a trailer park is somehow more privileged than Sasha Obama is absurd on the face of it ... but there we go.


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    #4181
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Geuze wrote: »
    Good post.

    I consider myself centre-right, yet I agree with much of what you say (there may be difference in the details).

    I think your description of current left-wing politics is very good.

    Is this debate going on with Lab / SD / SF? Are they aware that this move to identity politics alienates many traditional left voters?

    I hope more left-wingers are like you, self-aware, but IMHO they seem not to be.

    I am sympathetic to FG, but they put too much faith in the market to solve housing issues, and they will only have themselves to blame as they lose votes over housing.

    Some I've spoken to seem to be willing to go along with it.
    SF will gradually lose most of its traditional support as their woke stuff comes more to the forefront. Internal party bull**** guides leadership but it only takes a small number of people to shift it entirely while the wider support is left behind.
    Also it's easy (er) right now for the left parties to keep promising all things to all men (and women and other) while knowing they'll never have to deliver on it. The absolute gall of them to say we're being robbed on mortgage interest rates while saying people basically shouldn't have to make their payments is amazing.

    I was talking to a like-minded person earlier and we're both looking at moving in the not too distant future. We're copying the rest of Europe's mistakes while we have a much larger underclass already built-in.
    When it comes to people aged 25-40 in this country what proportion are Irish and working fulltime? A huge amount of our immigrants belong in that age group, they always have an out. The never-working class have no interest in saying "Hmm, maybe working people pay enough tax as it is". I'll be interested how the economics work out as a higher and higher proportion of our population comes from an inter-generational welfare-dependent background.
    My parents relied on welfare at times. I have no issue with people who need help getting help until they can sort themselves out. But the fact that most of the public discourse is about how "poor" people need more money, well, **** that. I started a new job recently on what I would consider pretty damn good money. If I had a kid however I'd be within a hundred quid a month of being better/worse off by not working depending on how you value a couple of medical cards. At the same time I don't see house prices fallen any time soon. Outside Dublin rent prices are roughly double what a mortgage payment would be so absolutely everyone who can get a deposit is doing what they can to buy. Why are rents high? Because of subsidising the people who will never have to fill in a timesheet.
    It has the makings of a revolt but I just don't think there's the critical mass of people necessary to do anything about it.


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    #4182
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    The whole idea of the left is supposed to be about class structure. That seems to be completely lost. Ten years ago organisations like occupy were talking about taxes and the one per cent.

    That argument seems to have been completely abandoned. Nobody ever mentions anything to do with class any more.

    Because it's unfashionable. Labels, including economic labels are a no no. We are all equal. Equally responsible for what happens to minorities that is.

    The truth is the modern left is mostly about virtue signalling. Every time I see an announcement or press release, it's either condemning others for not doing enough, or it's a sign shouting that now is the time to stroke our egos for thinking of the less fortunate out there.
    The idea that a gay or black rich person is less privileged then a poor white person is an idea I cannot accept. And not really the reality.

    Ahh.. there is some validity to the idea that a black poor person would have greater disadvantages in a predominately white society than a white poor person. Although, IMHO, in this current climate of minorities gaining such support, I'd say a black poor person has more options that a poor white person.

    A while back I was doing some research on educational sponsorships, and I couldn't find any directed any men (as a gender) or white men (as a race). I could find a wide variety of grants for women to get education. Depending on the country/region, I could also find a large number of grants for "minority" groups, including those coming from foreign countries as foreign students. Many of these grants specified particular racial groups..

    The truth is that times have changed. 20 years ago I'd have no hesitation in agreeing that a black poor person would be worse off than a white poor person. In Europe. Now? Haha.. Nah.
    Does racism and homophobia exist, yes. Are they massive problems that are systemic in all areas of society, well not really in Europe or the west. Your life is much more decided by what class you are born into.

    Racism and homophobia are always going to exist. Hell, I know lesbians who dislike/distrust gay men.. based on their sexual preferences, as opposed to solely them being male and gay. People like to present humans as being perfectly rational, but they're/we're not.

    The problem with racism is that we're all judged by what happens in the US. Or France. But it's a selective judgment without any consideration for how other racial groups show their own racism towards others. White westerners are held to a higher standard than what's extended to other racial or cultural/national groups. It's wonderfully convenient for them.


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    #4183
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because it's unfashionable. Labels, including economic labels are a no no. We are all equal. Equally responsible for what happens to minorities that is.

    The truth is the modern left is mostly about virtue signalling. Every time I see an announcement or press release, it's either condemning others for not doing enough, or it's a sign shouting that now is the time to stroke our egos for thinking of the less fortunate out there.



    Ahh.. there is some validity to the idea that a black poor person would have greater disadvantages in a predominately white society than a white poor person. Although, IMHO, in this current climate of minorities gaining such support, I'd say a black poor person has more options that a poor white person.

    A while back I was doing some research on educational sponsorships, and I couldn't find any directed any men (as a gender) or white men (as a race). I could find a wide variety of grants for women to get education. Depending on the country/region, I could also find a large number of grants for "minority" groups, including those coming from foreign countries as foreign students. Many of these grants specified particular racial groups..

    The truth is that times have changed. 20 years ago I'd have no hesitation in agreeing that a black poor person would be worse off than a white poor person. In Europe. Now? Haha.. Nah.



    Racism and homophobia are always going to exist. Hell, I know lesbians who dislike/distrust gay men.. based on their sexual preferences, as opposed to solely them being male and gay. People like to present humans as being perfectly rational, but they're/we're not.

    The problem with racism is that we're all judged by what happens in the US. Or France. But it's a selective judgment without any consideration for how other racial groups show their own racism towards others. White westerners are held to a higher standard than what's extended to other racial or cultural/national groups. It's wonderfully convenient for them.

    holding whites to a higher standard is racist towards non whites

    of course the WOKE are blind to this


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    #4184
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    holding whites to a higher standard is racist towards non whites

    of course the WOKE are blind to this

    I don't think they are. I think they know exactly what they're doing/saying.

    It all comes back to the application of double standards. Black people can't be racist. Trans can't be sexist. etc. There's all manner of reasons for this but it all boils down to making it acceptable to apply double standards.
    .


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    #4185
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,768 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    The whole idea of the left is supposed to be about class structure. That seems to be completely lost. Ten years ago organisations like occupy were talking about.

    That's the old Left, the modern left is full of people who have benefited most from neo liberalism and are upper middle class and upwardly mobile.

    The medley of left, woke, progressive are a class signifier as well these days.

    Marks one out as the right sort of people, welcome at the meeting, dinner party or office.


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    #4186
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,152 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Well actually, I think class privilege is being kind of ignored these days. It’s how people justify calling every white person privileged even if they are incredibly socioeconomically disadvantaged.

    Once again, this is largely due to the importation of American identity politics. Wealth privilege is a real concept. But discuss wealth privilege in America and you'll get the usual nonsense cry of "communism". So, it gets reduced down to "white privilege", which is easier for everyone to understand and harder to dismiss.

    The Americans tend not to do complexities, so everything gets boiled down to easy to digest titbits and unfortunately, due to proliferation on the web, it gets exported easily.


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    #4187
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,152 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So.. when should we become worried about it?

    That depends of what "it" is.

    If you go by some on here, "woke" is just things they don't like most of the time, or some silly twat online saying something ridiculous.

    "Woke" seems to be everything from positive discrimination to a black person appearing on TV.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    You keep seeking to downplay the possible effects of woke culture on society

    Because the effects have been minor. To say the least.

    People today are in far more danger from catastrophic financial gambling, property prices, mounting debt, etc than they are from any woke ejit spouting a bit of gibberish.

    In fact, the biggest effect it has had is to have some people running around pulling their hair out and worrying about a whole host of doomsday scenarios.


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    #4188
    JeffreyEpspeen
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭JeffreyEpspeen


    Saw a video today of a black man filming a cop retreating from a crazed white man while imploring the cop to "shoot his ass" repeatedly. The cop did, indeed, shoot and kill the person attacking him, having not much other choice in the matter (much like the vast majority of these cases).

    I wonder what the reaction would be like if the person shot by the cop was black and a white person was encouraging the cop to shoot to kill.


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    #4189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tony EH wrote: »
    That depends of what "it" is.

    If you go by some on here, "woke" is just things they don't like most of the time, or some silly twat online saying something ridiculous.

    "Woke" seems to be everything from positive discrimination to a black person appearing on TV.

    Of course, because the woke movement encompasses a wide range of "issues" all driving towards social change. The issues in themselves don't matter much. What matters is the introduction of rights, entitlements, alteration of social dynamics, and the pushing of identity politics i.e. the furthering of divisions between people of any given population, while creating an environment that encourages censorship of "unenlightened" viewpoints, and intolerance of those who don't see the light.
    Because the effects have been minor. To say the least.

    Really? The effects of diversity and inclusion movements has been shown throughout the western world, from quotas, to anti-racism campaigns (when there is little genuine need for such a campaign, and it's highly questionable whether such campaigns are effective). The pushing of trans rights (considering the minuscule number of genuine trans people) has altered legal frameworks, and forced the majority to conform and accept beliefs that most consider ridiculous. I could go on.. but what's the point?
    People today are in far more danger from catastrophic financial gambling, property prices, mounting debt, etc than they are from any woke ejit spouting a bit of gibberish.

    Sure they are. So why aren't you on such a thread?

    Again, you've skipped over what I have said multiple times in favor of repeating your views that these things are not important and should be dismissed.
    In fact, the biggest effect it has had is to have some people running around pulling their hair out and worrying about a whole host of doomsday scenarios.

    Nah. The doomsday scenarios tend to be proposed by those who want to shut down the discussion.. claiming that people are hysterical, and so, unreasonable, and therefore can be ignored.... Sound familiar?

    I've seen very few posters to suggest any kind of doomsday scenario. TBH, I can't immediately recall any.. although I can recall your suggestion of such on multiple occasions within the last few pages.


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    #4190
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,152 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really?

    Yes.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sure they are. So why aren't you on such a thread?

    I've been on many such threads.


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    #4191
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,081 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    god forbid normal people get credit for anything these days

    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1358681037887315969

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #4192
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    "Children’s charity Barnardo’s has axed its Mother of The Year award after 25 years because it does not celebrate other caregivers like same sex parents and grandparents"

    haha... so it's perfectly fine that there was no similar award for Fathers (for 25 years no less)?


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    #4193
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    "Children’s charity Barnardo’s has axed its Mother of The Year award after 25 years because it does not celebrate other caregivers like same sex parents and grandparents"

    haha... so it's perfectly fine that there was no similar award for Fathers (for 25 years no less)?
    bingo!


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    #4194
    Esho
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Esho


    silverharp wrote: »
    god forbid normal people get credit for anything these days

    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1358681037887315969

    That is just so wrong- headed. The world is on its ass.


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    #4195
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    silverharp wrote: »
    god forbid normal people get credit for anything these days

    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1358681037887315969

    Feminists trying to figure out how they should react to this news:
    confusedladymathmeme-5ab6ad1d8e1b6e0037eb6fe8.PNG


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    #4196
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Tony EH wrote: »
    nonsense cry of "communism".

    How many tens of millions died over this nonsense?


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    #4197
    Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_


    RandRuns wrote: »
    Feminists trying to figure out how they should react to this news:
    confusedladymathmeme-5ab6ad1d8e1b6e0037eb6fe8.PNG

    No it's not that difficult sweetie.

    Inclusionary intersectional feminists have no issue with this. Awards are great, but not when they totally exclude minority caregivers like LGBTQ+ couples.


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    #4198
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_ wrote: »
    No it's not that difficult sweetie.

    Inclusionary intersectional feminists have no issue with this. Awards are great, but not when they totally exclude minority caregivers like LGBTQ+ couples.

    :D


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    #4199
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Back onto the period poverty subject someone mentioned earlier - Una Mullally is unhappy that something is being done about it, because the person who was promoting it all along might not get the credit for it.

    So it seems the problem is not the important thing - the important thing is to be seen to be the one pointing out the problem. Wokeism in a nutshell.

    Una Mullally: Ridiculous bandwagoning on issue of period poverty must stop


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    #4200
    Barna77
    Registered Users Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭Barna77


    Sorcha Dhuisigh _She_Her_ wrote: »

    Inclusionary intersectional feminists have no issue with this. Awards are great, but not when they totally exclude minority caregivers like LGBTQ+ couples.
    :confused:


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    #4201
    Vicxas
    Registered Users Posts: 15,345 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Barna77 wrote: »
    :confused:

    Careful, her woke level is over 9000


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