Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529573#Comment_118529573

The Kimono one is interesting because it was the woke parade who started it up until the Japanese came out and said, Eh no - we're happy for people to wear kimonos if they want.

The flipside is the narive American headress which is only supposed to be worn by cheifs and is an honour you have to earn, so they see it as disresespecful to see people casually wearing them to parties.

And this is what it all boils down to - if you're disrespecting the culture of the people it orginated from, it's cultural approriation. I'm not saying I'd agree with it, but if someone asked me not to wear their ceremonial artifacts in an egotistical and selfish way I'd not do it. And I'd see it as a bit of a dick move if someone else did.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533284#Comment_118533284

That's because the ideological mishmash of our society isn't coherent or stable but constantly rotating between incompatible demands.. the rules and objectives shift and change. Double-talk is routine.

Anyone who's taking it all at face value is in for a rough ride.

That's not to say I disagree with people saying that cultures should be treated with respect, but the public controversies around this are usually a feint and a fake with feigned outrage disproportionate to the offence.

Also why are apologies never accepted? We have deleted forgiveness from our culture.

Cordell

Well, if cooking or/and eating kebabs and curries is cultural appropriation, then that's pretty much the end of any argument in favor of the benefits of multiculturalism, isn't it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118534699#Comment_118534699

You're mixing up cultural appropriation (which this isn't) with multicultural (which it is).

To the best of my knowledge, no one from Asia or the Middle East had ever had a problem with it.

Cordell

No. So, context:

Here we have the people that support multiculturalism who usually reply "food" when asked which are the benefits.

And here we have the people that think it's cultural appropriation when a white European chef cooks kebab and curry.

And here we have the intersection of these 2 groups

We are looking at a single circle

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118534499#Comment_118534499

The golden rule of playing the 'woke' game and winning or at least retaining your dignity and self-respect is never, never, never, never, never ever apologise to the gutter they inhabit.

ingalway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536026#Comment_118536026

Intersectional cookery is going the way of intersectional feminism!

Potential-Monke

Well, it is 2022, I'd imagine wokeness is peak and everyone is aware and doesn't want to annoy anyone else, so there's be no "Pattys Day" parades around the world this year. No harm.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536089#Comment_118536089

The golden rule is that the only winning move not to play, Professor Falken.

Would you like a game of chess?

Cordell

Yeah but sometimes you already played the game, maybe without even knowing it. You had that forbidden thought, you cooked that forbidden meal, you wore that forbidden costume, 20 some years ago but the internet never forgets and once wokes start digging no one is safe.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538985#Comment_118538985

Was it 20 some years ago Harry wore the forbidden costume? Jesus Christ it nearly was and all, 2005 -

I’d say Harry is fairly safe all the same 😏

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536026#Comment_118536026

Not sure if that was in reply to me, as I was never "asked" what the benefits of multicultrualism are. Food is generally one of them, though - are you disagreeing with that? You're not exactly clear on the point. We're talking about cultural appropriation though, not multicultrualism, which are two different things, as I described in my post. Shoehorning them together doesn't make it so.

Did someone actually say that it's cultrual appropriation when a white European (white Americans being ok though..._) chef cooks kebab and curry or are you just going be a random headline without reading the actual story? Was there even a headline...?

Sounds like it being a case of you WANTING to believe it's a "single circle" when there is clearly no intersection, rather than what you've actually found out. Even if there was, it could still be consistent viewepoint, if someone beleived the introduction of the food of other cultures was a good thing, but only people from those cultures should cook them (not a particularly intelligent viewpoint, but still consistent).

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118534445#Comment_118534445

I agree with what you said except for the last paragraph. What you are suggesting is too wide-ranging. Who is to say if you are disrespecting someone's culture because you cooked a food a certain way or wore your hair a certain way? People see offence and disrespect everywhere nowadays. If I wear cornrows in my hair (as if), how is that disrespecting someone's culture?

I agree, don't be a d1ck, but you can't live your life being afraid to have your hair a certain way in case you offend someone.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539504#Comment_118539504

For me, someone who was from said cultural background and made a sound argument. Certainly not some aggrressive blue-haired white goon looking for an ego-trip.

I've had this with dream-catchers: someone in Berlin told me I shouldn't sell handmade dreamcatchers. The native American society say they're fine with it as long as you don't use eagle feathers so they hold them to be sacred. I wasn't anyway, so I continued to make dreamcatchers.

I've never heard of anyone saying "don't cook our food using our receipes" - entirely the opposite, people like to share their recipes from their cultures. Don't know enough about cornrows to say.

Again, very simple: if you're not pissing off people from the culture, go for it. If people not from that cultrue CHOOSE to get pissed off, that's their decision.

Cordell

if you're not pissing off people from the culture, go for it

Well, that's the thing, if you're not meaning to piss off, there should be no pissing off taken implicitly. And that includes those fekin sacred feathers, they're not sacred to you so there is no harm done. As you said, If people not from that cultrue CHOOSE to get pissed off, that's their decision

Also it's perfectly fine is to cook a pork kebab.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539746#Comment_118539746

When it comes to such spluttering outrage you only have to ask yourself 'cui bono' (who benefits)? Crying cultural appropriation is a handy way to ensure a closed market where only 'approved' groups are allowed to sell you 'ethnic cuisine'. Imagine if you could demand that only an Irish barman was allowed to serve you a Guinness? It would ensure you had no 'furriners behind the bar' and a handy jobs market exclusively for the locals.

Anyhow, given the fact that the majority of 'Indian restaraunts' in this country are owned and run by Pakistani's, perhaps the Indians should be having a word with them about false advertising and encroaching on their turf before laying into me for owning one of Madhur Jaffrey's cookbooks.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539886#Comment_118539886

It doesn't matter whether they're sacred to me or to you (assuming you're not native American) - its not our culture!! That's the whole point: take advice from people who know.

Any advance on the white chefs/cultrual apropriation point, or are we letting that lie with you being overly-zealous and not having any further info?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540217#Comment_118540217

First paragrouaph - interesting hypothesis, but again - does this actually happen?

Second - from what I know, there's a bit of overlap there, but again -no experience, not in a position to say.

Cordell

its not our culture!!

It doesn't matter!! :)

Any advance on the white chefs/cultrual apropriation point

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/baffled-by-jamie-oliver-s-jerk-rice-here-s-how-to-make-real-jerk-chicken-1.3604101

“I’m just wondering do you know what Jamaican jerk actually is?” a British MP, Dawn Butler, who has Jamaican parents, asked the celebrity chef on Twitter. “It’s not just a word you put before stuff to sell products. Your jerk rice is not OK. This appropriation from Jamaica needs to stop.”

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540377#Comment_118540377

How did she resist saying "Your jerk rice is not OK, you jerk"?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540377#Comment_118540377

Of course it matters - that's the whole point...? Why wouldn't it matter?!

ALso, that's not a white chef claiming foreign recipes is cultrual approriation: that's a British/Caribbean MP saying that mis-labeling the food is cultrual appropriation. She's not condemning him for cooking it and shes not condemn him for cooking caribbean style food.

If the Caribbean community are claiming that Jamie Oliver cooking jerk chicken is cultural approriation, then explain this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkI8RdDCFII

Cordell

If the Caribbean community are claiming that Jamie Oliver cooking jerk chicken is cultural approriation, then explain this...

He had to hire a cultural appropriation adviser and a MP of Caribbean origins clearly said not only that it is cultural appropriation, but it also NEEDS TO STOP. From all people the elected representatives shouldn't dare tell people what they can and what they cannot cook.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541322#Comment_118541322

This explains nothing.

Full quote for accuracy:

“It’s not just a word you put before stuff to sell products. Your jerk rice is not OK. This appropriation from Jamaica needs to stop.”

She specifically refers to the word; she specicially refers to the product. Seriosuly - you can't be trying to tell me that this is someone trying to get him to stop making Caribbean food full stop. She also tags the guy in the youtube video who helps Oliver makes the food in the first place!

He didn't "have to" do anything, he chose to. Stupid move if you ask me, but then getting the meaning of the word "jerk" in the culinary context when you sell yourself as a chef is also a bit stupid, so maybe he does need one.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541521#Comment_118541521

I don't understand the point you are making. Yes, she specifically mentioned jerk rice in this instance because that's what he cooked. Her problem was that it wasn't cooked according to traditional methods (some different ingredients). I think it's reasonable to assume she didn't want him cooking any sort of Caribbean dish if he was going to use some different ingredients.

I agree that Jamie Oliver is stupid to pander to the gobsh1tes.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542539#Comment_118542539

No it's not - if that's what she meant, she'd have said it. Clearly.

And other people world have agreed rather than encouraged him to keep doing it.

And other chefs world have been outed too.

But no one supported it. For a reason.

Cordell

So we went from it never happened to it's not exactly how you said it was. Cool, at least some progress.

Still, you don't see the italians telling us to stop eating american style pizza with garlic sauce and lasagna with chips and carbonara cooked with cream. Probably because they aren't culturally diverse enough :)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544031#Comment_118544031

No, we're still at it never happened.

This was an attempt to by you to prove it happened that has been debunked, so we never moved.

Cordell

Ok then I might have misread that "stop cooking our food your way" as something negative, when really it's a sort of praising of his skills and innovation, so let's leave it at that. My bad.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118429446#Comment_118429446

That can just fu#k off.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118429446#Comment_118429446

Just showed this to my wife 5 minutes ago. She's going fu#King nuts 😆

"It's demeaning to women that suffer from it"

She's still ranting about it as I type this.