Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

and honestly a co workers wish to be called George Washington is not your place to question you should offer the same respect you’re given by being called whatever name and pronouns you want to be.

If someone calls you Samantha rather than Samuel and you ask them not to do so, you’d be pretty fcuking pished if they refused to do so. It’s not your place to decide when someone is given the basic respect of being addressed as they request while in work.

No one, ever, for any reason should be made to feel uncomfortable by their co workers. If you can’t understand why that is I can’t help you.

Evade

It's a tricky situation. The intention was probably to protect people genuinely transitioning but it seems like there are more and more people just identifying as something else and weaponising rules like this for their own ego.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418182#Comment_120418182

"no more would it be appropriate to ridicule someone who was anti-vaxx in work it is not appropriate to purposely misgender someone in work."

I didn't say anything about ridiculing someone for being anti-vaxx? I asked would you respect the decision? Would you incorporate their rights in work policy? I know from having being involved in the covid return-to-work policy where I work that we were not inclusive of these views (and then the Government also weren't, when they said unvaxxed people would not be able to travel abroad). Big difference.

"No one, ever, for any reason should be made to feel uncomfortable by their co workers."

Am I allowed be made feel uncomfortable by being forced to use daft pronouns for co-workers, when the evidence from Tavistock is that (a) a significant number of cases of professionally diagnosed gender dysphoria are actually related to autism, depression, that (b) such a diagnosis can actually be overturned by "I wasn't questioned enough" and (c) going along with it demonstrably has the power to do far more harm than good?

Your conclusion ("If you can't understand why that is I can't help you") is typically ignorant Michael Wide Tongs stuff. Ignore the point actually made, restate your case, and be borderline insulting at the end.

Not really good enough for what's a serious debate with serious consequences.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418292#Comment_120418292

So you'd be ok with someone spouting pseudo science to say that a different race was inferior? Or claiming that gay people are deviants? Or that gay marriage is immoral? Because they feel uncomfortable around people of a different race/sex/gender?

If a person ever gets into a discussion with you about trans rights, you can of course mention whatever you want. However if someone tells you that their name is X or Y, then you accept it. If you were a homophobe and if, for example, someone who's gay gets married and changes their name, it's not up to you to keep refusing to call them by their new name. I'm sure there are plenty of people who still think gay marriage is wrong. And I'm sure many of them go online and find weird studies to back up their beliefs but the office is still the wrong place to bring that up. And if someone did bring it up continously, that would be a form of harassment.

So yes, if someone is trans, you accept that they are trans. You accept their new name and pronouns and get on with your day because it's not about you. You can go on the internet later and talk about how you think trans people are weird but you don't do it in the office. The same way I as an atheist would never criticise someones religion.

Cordell

>>trans rights

There's no such thing, there's only human rights. That is, trans people have the right to identify as whatever they wish, and everyone else has the right to refuse to play along.

Yeah_Right

Theres one big difference between respecting the pro-nouns a work colleague chooses and respecting the beliefs of an anti-vax colleague. The pro-nouns are not a threat to my health or the health of everyone else in the building.

Leg End Reject

I have no problem using a preferred name or pronouns, but I will draw a line at accepting the right of violent rapists to be housed in women's prisons, especially when doctors agree they are not transgender.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417821#Comment_120417821

If Purdues act has as many laugh out loud moments as that article it would be worth seeing.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418780#Comment_120418780

Respecting someone's flat-earth belief and incorporating that into work policies doesn't affect your health either. Would you be ok with that?

Would you respect the wishes of someone who uses neopronouns (like vamp/vampself or xe/xem)? What about the wishes of someone who identifies as disabled?

And I've shown an example where indulging in someone's pronouns (again, this court-upheld argument that they weren't questioned enough) actually was a major threat to their health. (Ditto identifying as disabled actually)

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418807#Comment_120418807

I would use any name a person wished but I would only use pronouns he/him/she/her for an individual. If that person wants to be referred as a pronoun other than that then I feel I would be compromising too much to be honest.

AllForIt

https://www.independent.ie/style/sex-relationships/my-dad-was-asexual-i-wish-he-could-have-told-me-before-he-died-42409143.html

https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=https%253A//www.independent.ie/style/sex-relationships/my-dad-was-asexual-i-wish-he-could-have-told-me-before-he-died-42409143.html

It makes me constantly sad that he probably never met another asexual person, let alone felt part of a community that might have made him feel much less marginalised

It's heartbreaking isn't it, all the Pride marches he missed out on, the life he could have had, and never even knew what colour on the Pride flag represented him.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418807#Comment_120418807

According to our laws here in Ireland, a doctor doesn't get to have a say in if someone is transgender or not. The person themselves just has to apply for a Gender Recognition Cert. No doctor necessary.

But yeah, violent rapists shouldn't be housed in women's prisons even if they have a gender recognition certificate.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419078#Comment_120419078

Not sure how being a flat earther would have any relevance to work policies but it wouldn't really bother me. I just consider them a moron but I've worked with plenty of morons before so no biggie. I guess it would rule them out of any overseas work trips which is a plus for me.

Neopronouns, sure if that keeps them happy. I'd roll my eyes but go along with it.

Identifying as disabled, unless they have a med cert then no. If they have a cert then I just have to accept it.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418780#Comment_120418780

What if the person ‘identifies’ as being gender fluid…I think although I’m open to correction but most of those people like to be called ‘they’… but what if a person started demanding that depending on how they feel on any given day, people must acquiesce to their chosen gender pronoun…

id just not refer to them by name or pronouns…basically can’t be accused of using the wrong one.

’my good colleague here will know that’….

I think pronouns could be indeed a threat… you make a genuine error by not using their preferred pronoun, you might be reading a complaint about you.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419763#Comment_120419763

Nightmare scenario like that, I'd go to HR first 😂 Get some sort of system set up so that I'd know to address them. HR them before they can HR me.

Had some experience with that when it came to promoting people in the past. Went HR to justify why we were promoting a male candidate over a female one to a role that was already predominantly male. Did it to prevent any sexism complaints from gaining a foothold.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418292#Comment_120418292

You’re not being made uncomfortable though you’re just creating a problem because you disagree with it.

Should your feeling a bit put out trump someone else’s wish to be addressed with respect? No, sorry it shouldn’t.

cdeb

But again you come back to this default of "with respect"

Why is it respectful to unquestioningly do whatever you're told? And in the context that unquestioning acceptance of this sort of stuff, once again, was a key issue in the successful court case against the NHS, which you seem determined to ignore and not acknowledge.

People seem to think they're being nice when actually the evidence is that the actual impact is quite possibly the opposite.

BoxcarWilliam99

"So yes, if someone is trans, you accept that they are trans. You accept their new name and pronouns and get on with your day because it's not about you. You can go on the internet later and talk about how you think trans people are weird but you don't do it in the office. The same way I as an atheist would never criticise someones religion"

You might decide to do that but no-one is under any obligation to do same. Surely it's a form of bullying

Quantum Erasure

Can we move away from the trans issue for a while, and back to something a little more light hearted, like race...?

https://trinitynews.ie/2023/03/students4change-call-for-the-renaming-of-berkeley-library-to-thomas-sankara-library/

Today, activist group Students4Change (S4C) called on College to rename the Berkeley Library to Thomas Sankara Library.

Thomas Sankara was a politician, revolutionary, and military officer from Burkina Faso. Commonly nicknamed “Africa’s Che Guevara”, he is often viewed as a socialist, anti-imperialist icon.

Currently, Trinity’s law library is named in recognition of George Berkeley. Berkeley attended Trinity, where he was elected scholar, earned both a BA and MA, as well as working as a tutor and lecturer. Upon moving to America in 1728, he purchased both a plantation and several African people who had been enslaved.

Sankara has no links to Trinity, and never visited Ireland.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418663#Comment_120418663

I actually missed this post at the time - and it's probably as well that I did to be honest, because it's just bizarre. I don't know what any of the first paragraph actually means. To dismiss Tavistock - which, to be clear, caused the NHS to have its gender dysphoria unit for under 18s to be shut down for some pretty appalling practices - as a "weird study" is to simply show no interest at all in checking out the matter and discussing it properly. And having started with talk of pseudo science, you then conclude with "if someone is trans, you accept that they are trans" - even though there's no science at all behind that, and, once again, one of the lessons from Tavistock was that a significant number of people who had been professionally diagnosed as trans were actually autistic, depressed, had suffered from head trauma, etc.

In that regard, unquestioningly indulging them in their pronouns was to ignore what could be a symptom of something actually quite serious. Doesn't sound very respectful to me.

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420595#Comment_120420595

LOL but they saw a recent news story on thejournal.ie about efforts in Burkina Faso to dig up Sankara and move him elsewhere so naturally they're moving for this to stick it to the man.

I swear, they are ridiculously stupid-funny.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120420595#Comment_120420595

Anyway, yeah, let's move on.

That crowd's website tells you quite a lot in its first paragraph -

"Students4Change is a collective of students and staff from Trinity College Dublin, who work actively to dismantle the corporate university, as well as the racist, imperialist, white supremacist, patriarchal and cisheteronormative systems it reflects and reproduces."

I feel like they'd be great at bullshit bingo.

I also find it interesting that there's a lot of Americanisations on the site (eg color instead of colour)

BoxcarWilliam99

The really don't like "right wing militarist Declan Ganley"

https://students4change.eu/2021/10/07/trinitys-links-with-declan-ganley-and-the-far-right-are-morally-reprehensible/

What a shower of crusties

ingalway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418182#Comment_120418182

"No one, ever, for any reason should be made to feel uncomfortable by their co workers"

I would be very uncomfortable if Samuel, a biological male, came into the female changing areas/showers in my workplace and I was expected to make believe he is Samantha and that the on show anatomy is actually female. Am I a bigot?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421139#Comment_120421139

the corporate university, as well as the racist, imperialist, white supremacist, patriarchal and cisheteronormative systems it reflects and reproduces.

If my eyes roll anymore I'll be looking at the back of my skull for the remainder of my days.

Large bottle small glass

"cisheteronormative systems"

Sweet Jesus

thegame983

These losers do know that the only reason they're here is because a man and woman had sex right?

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421139#Comment_120421139

All sounds very 'Critical Race Theory' so it does....

As an aside, seen a thread pop up on the front page "CRT madness!" thought it'd be good for a laugh, turns out it was in the Arcade & Retro forum, about Cathode Ray Tube monitors...

Cordell

The raised fist logo says it all, honestly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120421239#Comment_120421239

I never said you’re a bigot. I said the workplace is not a venue in which you share your personal thoughts and opinions and your choices are respected by all and everyone should be treated equally.

I think my point has been missed, have your opinions, feel how you want, but in the workplace it’s an irrelevance everyone should be treated properly.