Who thinks Trump will win?

Silentcorner

astrofool wrote: »

Because we are in the middle of a highly contagious pandemic, and having crowds is highly stupid and very irresponsible.

There are protests all over the US since May, no one really thinks that they are dangerous, some are pretending they are when it suits is all.

astrofool

Silentcorner wrote: »

There are protests all over the US since May, no one really thinks that they are dangerous, some are pretending they are when it suits is all.

Protests shouldn't be going ahead, or if they do, they should be wearing masks and keeping socially distant from each other.

Organising political rallies with crowds of people is really really stupid right now, saying otherwise is really stupid, pointing out other people doing stupid things doesn't make it less stupid.

Foxtrol

Silentcorner wrote: »

What is the point of a whistle stop tour if only a handful of supporters turn up? For local tv? He is getting ratioed on his own Youtube channel.

He may as well stay at home.

His wife is impressive enough though.

Trump is in Minnesota tonight in front of a massive crowd as usual no doubt

Local TV, local papers, and national media.

There is really very limited value to having supporters turning up, especially during a pandemic when many people see those gatherings as a negative. Sure it might 'energise' a few people but those attending his rallies are already the die hard Trump supporters, many are there for the 'event feel' and don't even stay for his full speech.

I think the train idea is actually very smart by the Biden team, it creates a great contrast to Trump who props himself in front of planes. Plays into his whole 'working man' narrative, understanding how to help normal people.

Silentcorner

Foxtrol wrote: »

Local TV, local papers, and national media.

There is really very limited value to having supporters turning up, especially during a pandemic when many people see those gatherings as a negative. Sure it might 'energise' a few people but those attending his rallies are already the die hard Trump supporters, many are there for the 'event feel' and don't even stay for his full speech.

I think the train idea is actually very smart by the Biden team, it creates a great contrast to Trump who props himself in front of planes. Plays into his whole 'working man' narrative, understanding how to help normal people.

It looks terrible...you go on the road to meet the people, not relatively empty train station platforms.

It is easy to dismiss, but it is an element that should make the Biden camp very uncomfortable, don't kid yourself, this is not going unnoticed even if the media don't seem to care...the same media who aren't exactly reporting on the recklessness of the supporters of Trump either, they prefer not to mention the size of the crowds oddly enough.

Look, I think it is a gamble of Trumps to have these rallies as the media are only waiting for any kind of surge in cases...I will say however, he is probably better informed than I am when it comes to risks.

There are of course, many many other public displays of support for Trump that are not organized by his campaign team, car/boat parades, marches etc across the nation...there are absolutely none for Biden.

We have to rely on polls and the media to inform us of how the race is shaping up, I'd be a bit nervous about that if I were a Democrat.

astrofool

It's not making anyone uncomfortable because it was planned this way, to plan it otherwise is stupid right now, if they wanted crowds, they could get them easily.

And Trump doesn't care about the risks to his supporters.

Silentcorner

I should point out, the size of the crowds that Trump draws is not why I think he will win.

Surge in gun ownership
Economic collapse
Law and Order
Covid

Are huge issues that have only materialized in the last 6 months even...I believe that the Democratic Party are on the wrong side of these issues, and have thought that since the early summer. Extreme lockdowns cause more economic damage which will not translate into votes for the people who imposed them.

There is a different energy in the States now, as the economy picks up and the damage the rioting/looting/vandalism gets cleaned up, before Covid I thought Trump was coasting to re election, since the surge in gun sales and the riots I felt that once the economy picked up quickly he'd be back on track.

I am not basing my opinion on polls, so feel free to completely dismiss my opinion.

Silentcorner

astrofool wrote: »

It's not making anyone uncomfortable because it was planned this way, to plan it otherwise is stupid right now, if they wanted crowds, they could get them easily.

And Trump doesn't care about the risks to his supporters.

Do you think you are better informed than Trump and his campaign team when it comes to the risks of covid are concerned?

Outlaw Pete

Tell me how wrote: »

Because Trump himself in the debate last night acknowledged that he said it, but claimed it was sarcasm.

Like I've said before:

Bill Bryan was discussing the effects of light and disinfectant on the virus and Trump (after Bryan was done with his presentation) began to speak about a conversation they he had had earlier with him. The 'sarcasm' that Trump speaks of is when he said he said to Bryan that he would be using "medical doctors" for that. Twas a sarcastic joke. Hence him laughing as he said it. See below.

He did say it.
We've all seen the tape.
It wasn't sarcasm.

Trump at no stage whatsoever told people people to inject bleach.

Bryan had just given his talk and Trump was merely being lighthearted (for a total of 64 seconds, what a bastard) and the liberals, as is their way, seized on something innocuous he said as they knew it was something they could twist to their benefit, which by the way, makes a mockery of how they all moan now about how Trump didn't take the virus seriously but yet look what happened when he had experts address and inform the public about how the science was coming along. The liberals and the mainstream media had a feeding frenzy and behaved like children, ignoring all the positives from the presser, just so they could have a juvenile gotcha of their bogey man. So much for caring about the public's health, eh.

Here is what was said when Bryan was finished speaking about the effects light and different disinfectants had on the virus [Timestamped]:

"So I asked Bill a QUESTION that probably some of you were thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting:

"So, SUPPOSING we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light [Trump speaks to Bryan] and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it.

"And then I said SUPPOSING you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way.

"And I THINK YOU SAID YOU ARE GOING TO TEST THAT too. [Bryan confirms that research is being done in that area].

"Right, and then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And IS THERE A WAY WE CAN DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT by injection, inside, or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs

"So IT'D BE INTERESTING TO CHECK THAT.

[SARCASM]"SO you’re going to have to use medical doctors, right?"[/SARCASAM]

"It SOUNDS INTERESTING TO ME, so we'll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute.

"That’s eh, pretty powerful."

Now, tell me, precisely, where exactly did the Trump TELL people to inject bleach in the above?

astrofool

Silentcorner wrote: »

Do you think you are better informed than Trump and his campaign team when it comes to the risks of covid are concerned?

I don't think Trumps campaign team care much about the health of anyone attending the rallies, they're actively courting the "anti-lockdown" vote in the face of all scientific evidence to the contrary. To stop the rallies would be to admit they were wrong when they told states not to go into lockdown, and to open up as early as possible.

astrofool

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Now, tell me, precisely, where exactly did the Trump TELL people to inject bleach in the above?

Trump asked scientists to check if they could do something with injecting disinfectant as a cleaning.

Outlaw Pete

astrofool wrote: »

Trump asked scientists to check if they could do something with injecting disinfectant as a cleaning.

"Asked" being the operative word. Now reread my post:

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Now, tell me, precisely, where exactly did the Trump TELL people to inject bleach in the above?

I didn't ask where did he ask scientists to check anything. I know where he did that.

Chris_Heilong

astrofool wrote: »

Trump asked scientists to check if they could do something with injecting disinfectant as a cleaning.

I believe Trump in that situation was referencing a potential treatment that was mentioned to him during one of his briefings as well as the UV light treatment, Maybe he should not mention these things at all but I am sure he was trying to give the people hope that some form of treatment could be worked on.

Outlaw Pete

steddyeddy wrote: »

[a man who] mocks disabled people to his supporters

You're implying he mocked a disabled journalist's disability and that lie has been debunked a million times. So why are you repeating it?

[a man who believes] that injected disinfectant is good for covid ...

He believes nothing of the sort and merely asked a scientist questions, in the context of research, about the possibility of harnessing the disinfectant qualities of all was discussed so that they could be used internally in some way and he is not alone in that, given that scientists have also pondered on it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-experimental-ultraviolet-light-treatment-for-covid-19-takes-political-heat-11588005938

Outlaw Pete

BobbyMalone wrote: »

I would find it hard to believe that the president of the United States doesn't know who the Proud Boys are - Biden seems well versed, as do all of us here. If he doesn't, then it doesn't say much about his knowledge about 'patriotic' groups in his own country. Even worse is the idea that Trump will just repeat the name of a group that has been thrown at him. Why would he 'denounce' a group if he didn't know who they were?

He has refused before and got stick for it and so maybe at this stage he feels he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't and besides, Wallace seemed like he was ready to name the worst offenders or something.

astrofool

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I believe Trump in that situation was referencing a potential treatment that was mentioned to him during one of his briefings as well as the UV light treatment, Maybe he should not mention these things at all but I am sure he was trying to give the people hope that some form of treatment could be worked on.

Why did he later say he was asking them sarcastically as a joke then?

astrofool

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

He has refused before and got stick for it and so maybe at this stage he feels he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't and besides, Wallace seemed like he was ready to name the worst offenders or something.

Does he support the proud boys, or is he not informed enough to know who they are?

Outlaw Pete

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You're implying he mocked a disabled journalist's disability and that lie has been debunked a million times. So why are you repeating it?



He believes nothing of the sort and merely asked a scientist questions, in the context of research, about the possibility of harnessing the disinfectant qualities of all was discussed so that they could be used internally in some way and he is not alone in that, given that scientists have also pondered on it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-experimental-ultraviolet-light-treatment-for-covid-19-takes-political-heat-11588005938

Sorry Pete. I'm a pharmacist. Anybody with an inch of sense knows that injecting disinfectant is an absolutely stupid thing to even suggest..like mind boggingly stupid. Your post refers to UV treatment by the way.

astrofool

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You're implying he mocked a disabled journalist's disability and that lie has been debunked a million times. So why are you repeating it?

I don't think everyone believes that Trump always flails his arms around when imitating someone, the best you'll get here is an agreement to disagree. Certainly not "debunked".

Outlaw Pete

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Just on your whining about the mod interrupted Trump, whats your thoughts on these numbers? Should Trump be allowed to get away with this carry on?

Well, when you're debating two people at the same time, and the so called moderator is asking loaded 'When did you stop beating your wife? esque questions of you, whilst soft balling your opponent, then that unfairness has to be countered in some way and so I wouldn't be so harsh on Trump for that at all.

Navarro puts it will in the following interviewing where he calls Wallace Biden's 'cut man':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSzLKyrg0Kc

Outlaw Pete

steddyeddy wrote: »

Are we reading the same transcript? He didn't do it, only said he was prepared to do it.

Again, 'Stand down' were Wallace's words, Trump was merely repeating what he said, and meandered with 'Stand by' as he's wont to do, and like I have shown, Wallace has pulled this crap before and Trump happily disavowed who he was asked to then too. Indeed, dozens of times Trump has disavowed racist groups and he is only asked to keep doing so because the left want to be able to write more articles about Trump and Racism. No matter what he says or does it will never be good enough for the mainstream media. Look at the videos I posted last night. The man just announced that he's classifying the KKK as terrorists. That's a strange dog whistle.

Timberrrrrrrr

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, when you're debating two people at the same time, and the so called moderator is asking loaded 'When did you stop beating your wife? esque questions of you, whilst soft balling your opponent, then that unfairness has to be countered in some way and so I wouldn't be so harsh on Trump for that at all.

Navarro puts it will in the following interviewing where he calls Wallace Biden's 'cut man':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSzLKyrg0Kc

Ah pete would you stop! I knew you would come on here and defend Trump, knew you would claim a Trump victory but honestly, the lengths you have gone to today, I have to say you deserve a medal for the over the top defence you have put forward.

ollkiller

Silentcorner wrote: »

Do you think you are better informed than Trump and his campaign team when it comes to the risks of covid are concerned?

Seemingly the vast majority of humanity might be better informed about the risks of Covid than Trump and his campaign team.

I'm just gonna post this again for posterity.

"The “consultants” are not identified in the tax records. But evidence of this arrangement was gleaned by comparing the confidential tax records to the financial disclosures Ivanka Trump filed when she joined the White House staff in 2017. Ms. Trump reported receiving payments from a consulting company she co-owned, totaling $747,622, that exactly matched consulting fees claimed as tax deductions by the Trump Organization for hotel projects in Vancouver and Hawaii."

That's probably my favourite bit from the NYT article.

astrofool

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ah pete would you stop! I knew you would come on here and defend Trump, knew you would claim a Trump victory but honestly, the lengths you have gone to today, I have to say you deserve a medal for the over the top defence you have put forward.

It's the same narrative in a few places, all singing from the same hymn sheet to try and cast doubt on the stupidness of what Trump has said or done, now Pete could independently be coming up with the same explanations, and while the explanations lack believability, they're not outlandish, if you pick a very narrow read on what happened, and go by transcripts, and try and pretend to know what someone is thinking (e.g. Biden made him say proud boys) it all falls apart very quickly as shown above, as there can't be 2 explanations for the same event, especially when both make Trump look bad.

The good thing is that the day after the first debate, all the Trumpista are out trying to explain Trump rather than attack Biden, which in itself made Biden the winner.

astrofool

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm just gonna post this again for posterity.

"The “consultants” are not identified in the tax records. But evidence of this arrangement was gleaned by comparing the confidential tax records to the financial disclosures Ivanka Trump filed when she joined the White House staff in 2017. Ms. Trump reported receiving payments from a consulting company she co-owned, totaling $747,622, that exactly matched consulting fees claimed as tax deductions by the Trump Organization for hotel projects in Vancouver and Hawaii."

That's probably my favourite bit from the NYT article.

Someone on here would explain that there is less than a million to one chance that these payments are related.

notobtuse

Foxtrol wrote: »

Like I already said, Wallace interrupted Trump because Trump was breaking the debate rules that his own campaign agreed to. In any activity if you break the rules it is the moderator's job to step in.

Wallace pushed left wing talking points to Trump and right wing talking points to Biden. You might not be familiar with it but it is how debates work. Trump just completely fumbled dealing with questions put to him and Biden didn't.

I'm laughing about you claiming Wallace is biased against Trump when he called one of the sections "Race and Violence in our Cities" - which is something right out of a title you'd expect for a segment on Hannity or Tucker than a presidential debate.

I'm very familiar with US presidential debates, thank you very much. I've been watching them since Nixon.

Race and Violence in our democratic controlled cities isn't a talking point... IT'S A FACT!!!

Outlaw Pete

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry Pete. I'm a pharmacist. Anybody with an inch of sense knows that injecting disinfectant is an absolutely stupid thing to even suggest..like mind boggingly stupid. Your post refers to UV treatment by the way.

Well, if you're so well educated then why does reading seem to be beyond you:

"And then I said SUPPOSING you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way.

"And I THINK YOU SAID YOU ARE GOING TO TEST THAT too. [Bryan confirms that research is being done in that area].

Hence my linking to the UV article - he spoke on it.

With regards to disinfectants, bleach was not the only disinfectant mentioned either (isopropyl alcohol and other unnamed disinfectants were also referenced in the context of research on respiratory fluids) the media just ran with bleach as it sounded good, but either way, Trump at no stage told anyone, or even suggested that anyone, should inject themselves with bleach/disinfectant.

AGAIN, he spoke for 64 seconds about a conversation he had with Bill Bryan about future research:

"Right, and then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute and IS THERE A WAY WE CAN DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT by injection, inside, OR ALMOST A CLEANING, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs."

Now, if you want to call him an idiot for asking such questions in the context of future research at a presser, have at it, I'm not knocking anyone for doing that. What I am responding to is the absolute nonsense claim that Trump told people to inject bleach / disinfectant into their veins. It's hogwash, and as someone who has a job in which science plays an integral part, I'd have thought facts mattered to you and misrepresentation not so much.

Surely people have enough to moan about Trump on, is my point, without having to resort to lying about things he has said.

iLikeWaffles

Trumps statements are deliberately vague so anyone can hear what they want to hear. But yeah he definitely said that shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QdTOyXz3w

nolivesmatter

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry Pete. I'm a pharmacist. Anybody with an inch of sense knows that injecting disinfectant is an absolutely stupid thing to even suggest..like mind boggingly stupid.

Why does it matter if you're a pharmacist? Like you said anybody with any sense knows this.

Tell me how

nolivesmatter wrote: »

Why does it matter if you're a pharmacist? Like you said anybody with any sense knows this.

Because pharmacology is the branch of medicine concerned with the uses, effects, and modes of action of drugs.

Everyone with sense knows this. This poster knows why it would be bad, and exactly how bad it might be.

I'm all for listening to people who know what they are talking about. A strange phenomenon in 2020 in certain circles though it seems.