Who thinks Trump will win?

kenmm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The fact that Trump takes action shows that he takes responsibility.

Just because Trump once said he did not take responsibility at all for a lag in testing does not mean that he never takes any for anything, which is what the left constantly claim and then wheel out that out of context quote as proof of it.

By the way, Politifact found that he wasn't responsible for what he said he didn't take responsibility for:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/23/dan-crenshaw/did-fda-regulations-slow-testing-coronavirus/

I was not talking about the testing, generally speaking he doesn't put his hand up and admit fault.

The post you quoted was about blaming Americans for being overweight - it does not give Trump a pass on the mistakes he has made during the pandemic. That was the excuse offered (Poor health of America, it a contributing factor, no more). Trump supporter or not - you cannot deny that he could not have done better in many, many areas.

Strumms

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The fact that Trump takes action shows that he takes responsibility.

Just because Trump once said he did not take responsibility at all for a lag in testing does not mean that he never takes any for anything, which is what the left constantly claim and then wheel out that out of context quote as proof of it.

By the way, Politifact found that he wasn't responsible for what he said he didn't take responsibility for:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/23/dan-crenshaw/did-fda-regulations-slow-testing-coronavirus/

He takes responsibility when there is a success story to run with “ we did, we achieved... “

When they shît is hitting the fan “they didn’t do, they didn't get right”...

He will parachute his mugshot into a photo op or press conference for positive publicity like all coat tail riders... the second something goes wrong... “ ahh I and the American people expect more from....” people going under the bus left right and center..

In jobs we’ve all worked for people like him once or twice.... I can think of one, desperate to align themselves to any and all success stories and take credit , first one to put the boot in though and “ look, nothing to do with me “ when things go a bit askew. Plenty of finger pointing and apportion of blame.

Justin Credible Darts

a politician taking credit when things go right and passing the buck when it goes wrong is every politician in every country, while Trump is being cast as if he is the only one, by people who will use anything to beat trump with, is hilarious

nthclare

This is class

https://youtu.be/NnzPEyTpByU

Justin Credible Darts

I love this clip which parallels a lot of the way trump haters think they have some moral superiority

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2oLFKYNInQ

Biker79

kenmm wrote: »

And really that's just inciteful.

Ill give an example - I was once a frequent visitor to a certain part of the UK. They are going through some pretty fundamental changes in politics. I see more hatred there than say ~10 or 15 years back. Is that because I think Tony Blair was some sort of messiah? No of course not, but do I see a sharp decline in the standard of living for many people (regardless of political divide). I see problems with society at different levels. I see areas that I visited as a child in ruin.

That's experience and using my own judgement to try and figure out what is actually going on. Not because of some opinion pieces from Twitter, the Guardian or whatever and working out what I can do to not contribute to this sh!te that we are all accepting these days.

None of this will change by playing the left vs right game. Rubbishing an opinion because you suspect the holder is "one of them woke liberals" or "Right wing Nazis".

Seeing as how you're a witness to this gradual deterioration of the West/ Anglo Saxon sphere....I'd be interested to know why you think that is. Or what you think can be done about it. Is it a problem that can be solved?

Left vs right may not be a satisfying way of labeling people, but it is an effective way of framing a discussion.

I assume you're saying ' inciteful ' because of the remarks about Islam. Just to be clear ( it shouldn't need to be clarified but so many people take unnecessary offense ) , that refers to Islamic ideologies, not Muslim people. Other religions are also subject to public criticism.

kenmm

Biker79 wrote: »

.

I assume you're saying ' inciteful ' because of the remarks about Islam. Just to be clear ( it shouldn't need to be clarified but so many people take unnecessary offense ) , that refers to Islamic ideologies, not Muslim people. Other religions are also subject to public criticism.

No, not at all to do with Islam. Interesting insight into that's what you took from it. If I didn't know better, one could read that as an attempt to get a rise. But no nothing to do with your quote (I didn't even quote that part!)

More the generalisations, the assumptions and the ignoring of what was previously said.

suicide_circus

7% of journalists in the US are Republicans

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/

ExMachina1000

kenmm wrote: »

I really don't get how some people are just lining up to make excuse after excuse for this guy.

Obviously I think he is a bit of a buffoon that shouldn't be in power, but putting that aside, I could respect certain aspects of him if he just took some responsibility. But he wont, ever. Why can't his fans see that? That by being in continual denial and defence mode he is letting everyone down.

Because some people dont see the man and his personal faults. They see his economic policies, his law and order policies, how he puts his country first. People agree with these policies. His supporters see around his flaws

Some people only support the individual. Others support the policies and the attitude

kenmm

suicide_circus wrote: »

7% of journalists in the US are Republicans

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/

Paywall-, can you copy the article?

kenmm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Because some people dont see the man and his personal faults. They see his economic policies, his law and order policies, how he puts his country first. People agree with these policies. His supporters see around his flaws

But this is the interesting thing. It's like we are not allowed to call out crappy behaviour when it does happen. Like have your every been pissed off with your partner/ someone you love or like?
It's possible to be mad at someone and still care deeply. But with trump it's like, one criticism and it becomes an attack in the supporter and everything they believe in.

I can respect things about him and also say that he has massively dropped the ball in some COVID related areas.
Some trump supporters won't admit that and immediately put the blame for these failings on other factors. That's completely nonsensical. If it were our president, regardless of whether or not you support him, wouldn't you want better? Want a president that can admit fault and look to ways to improve?

And just to point out, it's not necessarily his policies that for him elected. He trades on that personality. He's was a celebrity before the politics.

suicide_circus

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/%3foutputType=amp

Its from 2014 to be fair

Biker79

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Because some people dont see the man and his personal faults. They see his economic policies, his law and order policies, how he puts his country first. People agree with these policies. His supporters see around his flaws

Some people only support the individual. Others support the policies and the attitude

Exactly right. You should never vote for any politician based on personality. In fact the more unappealing the personality, the more likely they will be able to take tough decisions.

Politicians should be voted for based on character, values and policies, because these are the elements that will have a direct impact on the lives of voters.

Gentlemanne

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

he takes responsibility.

Utterly delusional.

Even the man himself admits: I take no responsilbility

Biker79

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Utterly delusional.

Even the man himself admits: I take no responsilbility

The only game you people have is selective media edits and snips taken out of context.

Have to say it was very effective with the George Floyd incident. Leaving out 50% of the video footage so a certain narrative could be built and exploited.

Most people can see through it though.

kenmm

Biker79 wrote: »

The only game you people have is selective media edits and snips taken out of context.

Have to say it was very effective with the George Floyd incident. Leaving out 50% of the video footage so a certain narrative could be built and exploited.

Most people can see through it though.

Don't you see tho? This is what both sides have. This is all just one media game to see who can look the best.

This is part of the problem. It's delusional to think otherwise. Everyone just hanging in for confirmation bias.

Look at the aftermath of Floyd. Over produced sensationalism all over the place.

Timberrrrrrrr

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Because some people dont see the man and his personal faults. They see his economic policies, his law and order policies, how he puts his country first. People agree with these policies. His supporters see around his flaws

Some people only support the individual. Others support the policies and the attitude

Utter tripe! If he put his country and the people first he would have listened to the people around him that said Covid was a killer, He would have stepped aside and let them handle the pandemic, He would have agreed with them and told the American people to suck it up and listen to the advice of the experts.

Instead he kept the information to himself, railed against the people who were warning about the pandemic, ignored what was happening all over the world, encouraged people to attend Mass rallies (of his) and to rebel against governors who called for lock downs.

He is responsible for the deaths of many thousands of Americans and no mayter how you try to spin it this is still a fact.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20

Justin Credible Darts

did not hear you whinge when obama was the cause of death of many thousands of "brown people" with the air strikes america had.
As for listening to the people ? Would these be the same people who voted for him to be president in the first place.

surely if he alienated all these people then biden should have no problem destroying him in the election.

but why let things like logic get in the way of things

Gentlemanne

Biker79 wrote: »

The only game you people have is selective media edits and snips taken out of context.

Have to say it was very effective with the George Floyd incident. Leaving out 50% of the video footage so a certain narrative could be built and exploited.

Most people can see through it though.

Selective media edit? It's a full question and answer.

Can you explain to me what is taken out of context here? It is a video of him speaking. Where is the deception.

Timberrrrrrrr

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

did not hear you whinge when obama was the cause of death of many thousands of "brown people" with the air strikes america had.
As for listening to the people ? Would these be the same people who voted for him to be president in the first place.

surely if he alienated all these people then biden should have no problem destroying him in the election.

but why let things like logic get in the way of things

If you check my posting history I was very critical of obama and his drone strikes. Have you said a single thing against Trump and his continued use of drone strikes against "brown people "?

And maybe read my post again, the "people" he should have listened to were the experts.

Its a nice attempt at whataboutery pal but sorry, 2/10 for effort.

kenmm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you check my posting history I was very critical of obama and his drone strikes. Have you said a single thing against Trump and his continued use of drone strikes against "brown people "?

Its a nice attempt at whataboutery pal but sorry, 2/10 for effort.

I think the air strikes during Obama's time were widely condemned tbh


And yet another diversion tactic away from a thread about Trump.

Timberrrrrrrr

kenmm wrote: »

I think the air strikes during Obama's time were widely condemned tbh


And yet another diversion tactic away from a thread about Trump.

There was a thread here about drone strikes that I posted in frequently discussing them, reporting them and slating obama and the Americans foreign policy on the use of them against civilians.

But I think Trump is an idiot so that must make me a tofu eating cross dressing leftie liberal or some other idiotic label that they will accuse posters of :pac:

kenmm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There was a thread here about drone strikes that I posted in frequently discussing them, reporting them and slating obama and the Americans foreign policy on the use of them against civilians.

But I think Trump is an idiot so that must make me a tofu eating cross dressing leftie liberal or some other idiotic label that they will accuse posters of :pac:

You forgot woke!

(I'm still not even sure what that word means, I'm quite sure most people are using it wrong)

Biker79

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Selective media edit? It's a full question and answer.

Can you explain to me what is taken out of context here? It is a video of him speaking. Where is the deception.

Its actually quite obvious. The entire planet, with the exception of some East Asian countries, did not have the necessary infrastructure in place to deal with a pandemic. So hes not taking responsilbity for the lack of infrastucure in place. Rightly so.

Doesnt stop some simpleton journalists trying to pin it on him though.

Thats one of the easier videos to defend, so Ive no idea what you're attempting with that.

Timberrrrrrrr

kenmm wrote: »

You forgot woke!

(I'm still not even sure what that word means, I'm quite sure most people are using it wrong)

I woke up this morning (a good start to the day at my age) does that count?

Biker79

kenmm wrote: »

Don't you see tho? This is what both sides have. This is all just one media game to see who can look the best.

This is part of the problem. It's delusional to think otherwise. Everyone just hanging in for confirmation bias.

Look at the aftermath of Floyd. Over produced sensationalism all over the place.

Wrong - the left control the narrative through the mainstream media. Fewer than 10% of journalists are conservative.

That speaks for itself in terms of partisan reporting. The second video of the Floyd incident was released months later, when nobody cared for the truth, and the chaos was in full swing.

Spleodar

I'd hope he doesn't win, but talking to some American friends of mine, particularly those who live in the 'red states', I'd definitely look beyond the Irish bubble. We've a tendency to see the US through Bostonian and New Yorker lenses, as in general Irish context with the US is through Northeast and the big cities and that's also where international media tends to focus.

They've a quite geographically distorted electoral college system, which could ultimately end up delivering another Trump presidency, without a popular vote supporting that.

I'd be hopeful that Biden will pull this off, but it's just very hard to call and there's a lot of chaos and drama to play out between now and November.

Justin Credible Darts

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you check my posting history I was very critical of obama and his drone strikes. Have you said a single thing against Trump and his continued use of drone strikes against "brown people "?

And maybe read my post again, the "people" he should have listened to were the experts.

Its a nice attempt at whataboutery pal but sorry, 2/10 for effort.

The hypocrisy of you telling people to check posting history is staggering.
I have clearly stated numerous times I do not like trump. He is as guilty as Obama was, if strikes are happening on his watch.


Its your sheer complete bias, is what I have an objection to, this self righteousness you have that should anyone on here disagree with you then they must be wrong.



If somebody says something negative about Biden, Obama etc, your immediate response is deflection and mention what Trump did as if this somehow negates the issue. You have been doing it for weeks, like a one trick pony and a number of people have also mentioned this.



You harp on like Trump is going against people, based on nothing but speculation. Trump is in power because people wanted him in power, and if this guy is as bad as you say, how did he get elected ?


Why is he still in with a very real shout in this election ? surely if he let people down he should not even be in the running.



You have democrats and others going around who think they are morally superior, who are so bad some people are afraid to voice their opinion for Trump, for fear of being ridiculed, harassed etc and then lecturing people on how Trump tries to control others....again the obnoxious morally superior attitude.


The issue is not Trump, its not Biden, its the whole system,and the people that have created this system.


Like it or not Trump got in ahead of Hilary, ask yourself why. and if Trump gets in ahead of Biden, then those people he supposedly has let down, must be stupid for voting him back in.

kenmm

Biker79 wrote: »

Its actually quite obvious. The entire planet, with the exception of some East Asian countries, did not have the necessary infrastructure in place to deal with a pandemic. So hes not taking responsilbity for the lack of infrastucure in place. Rightly so.

Doesnt stop some simpoleton journalists trying to pin it on him though.

Thats one of the easier videos to defend, so Ive no idea what you're attempting with that.

Ok, very clear question(s) for you - do you think that Trump and his administration could have done anything drastically different during COVID pandemic?
Do you think its possible that more could have been done to dramatically reduce the loss of life?
Do you think he done his absolute best in the face of a terrible situation?

Timberrrrrrrr

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

The hypocrisy of you telling people to check posting history is staggering.
I have clearly stated numerous times I do not like trump. He is as guilty as Obama was, if strikes are happening on his watch.


Its your sheer complete bias, is what I have an objection to, this self righteousness you have that should anyone on here disagree with you then they must be wrong.



If somebody says something negative about Biden, Obama etc, your immediate response is deflection and mention what Trump did as if this somehow negates the issue. You have been doing it for weeks, like a one trick pony and a number of people have also mentioned this.



You harp on like Trump is going against people, based on nothing but speculation. Trump is in power because people wanted him in power, and if this guy is as bad as you say, how did he get elected ?


Why is he still in with a very real shout in this election ? surely if he let people down he should not even be in the running.



You have democrats and others going around who think they are morally superior, who are so bad some people are afraid to voice their opinion for Trump, for fear of being ridiculed, harassed etc and then lecturing people on how Trump tries to control others....again the obnoxious morally superior attitude.


The issue is not Trump, its not Biden, its the whole system,and the people that have created this system.


Like it or not Trump got in ahead of Hilary, ask yourself why. and if Trump gets in ahead of Biden, then those people he supposedly has let down, must be stupid for voting him back in.

I've explained this before but it's OK I'll explain it again just for you.

I don't deflect, what I do is point out the hypocrisy of the Trump zealots who post an edited video of Biden and scream

"OMG look he stumbled over a word he must have the dementia!!"

I am then happy to post one of #IMPOTUS and ask them why they think Biden has dementia/cognitive decline/whatever but never say the same against Trump?

Its not whataboutery, its not deflecting, its showing like for like and watching them squirm as they either try to explain why Trump can't pronounce a word/read a teleprompter or even better they try to totally ignore the valid point that I have made.