Who thinks Trump will win?

Wanderer78

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Is Mid-Wit the new libtard?

say wha?

The Raging Bile Duct

Wanderer78 wrote: »

say wha?

I googled Midwit and Bitchute and Reddit were among the top hits. I'm just wondering is it going to be the new insult du jour for anyone to the left of Viktor Orbán.

Wanderer78

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

I googled Midwit and Bitchute and Reddit were among the top hits. I'm just wondering is it going to be the new insult du jour for anyone to the left of Viktor Orbán.

fair play ta yea, i couldnt be even bothered to do that, lifes too short

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fair play ta yea, i couldnt be even bothered to do that, lifes too short

For sure.
The first time someone called me a neckbeard I had to google it. Couldnt be ar$ed keeping up with the latest buzzwords (unless it's organically heard)

Carfacemandog

I just saw the US death toll is now about 20,000 higher than their combined totals for: World War I, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the Spanish-American War, the Revolutionary War, the Mexican-American War and the War of 1812.

It is also still going up at 1,000 per day. Unless they get it under control, by the end of the year they will have lost more people to Covid than both World Wars combined.

What a resounding success story.

Wanderer78

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I just saw the US death toll is now about 20,000 higher than their combined totals for: World War I, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the Spanish-American War, the Mexican-American War and the War of 1812.

It is also still going up at 100,000 per day. Unless they get it under control, by the end of the year they will have lost more people to Covid than both Civil Wars combined.

What a resounding success story.

...then theres the possible new civil war to also contend with!

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...then theres the possible new civil war to also contend with!

I think what we are seeing is a civil war of sorts. Not fought with weapons, but with media, wealth and power.

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

I think what we are seeing is a civil war of sorts. Not fought with weapons, but with media, wealth and power.

....and is also becoming violent, in the traditional sense

Carfacemandog

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...then theres the possible new civil war to also contend with!

Ha, just realised my error! I had meant both world wars.

ELM327

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Ha, just realised my error! I had meant both world wars.

This isnt a war, it's a pandemic.
The only realistic comparison is pro rata numbers (ie deaths per 100k population) vs the spanish flu

Biker79

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Is Mid-Wit the new libtard?

Its not too far off, more a comprehensive and satisfying theory as to why liberalism is failing in the West.

Not really an insult per se, depends on the individual.

4068ac1elhodqr

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I just saw the US death toll is now about 20,000 higher than their combined totals for: World War I, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the Spanish-American War, the Revolutionary War, the Mexican-American War and the War of 1812.

It is also still going up at 1,000 per day.....

If you're going to compare the Chinese Flu to 'wars' (back as far as 1812) and such like, bearing in mind WW1 was largely unavoidable for the US.

Perhaps do also display the numbers of (largely) preventable deaths due (mostly) to lifestyle and personal choice decisions, or even what could be classed incidences of irresponsibility e.g. Abortions of early life.

Of course in certain (perhaps minority) situations there may be some valid reasons outside of one's control, such as medical grounds.

I.e. In 2017, there were around 339,640 medical (legal/known of) abortions in the United States, that's about 1,000 per day. Since the formation of the USA, over 60million (known/medical) abortions of life.

Even in the uk, the 'worst case deaths sceanario' for this winter's covid wave2 is something like 65k. This figure will be still far, far under the amount of predicted (telemedicine only, no clinic vists) based abortions (phone up and get two pills delivered), during Covid this new 'ease of access' measure was introduced.

Around 180,000 abortions of early life are carried out (just in England) each year, that figure isn't widely known nor broadcast.
For another comparison less than 2k were killed in road accidents across the uk for 2019.

The Raging Bile Duct

So Covid is God's way of punishing us for aborting all the babbies?

Danzy

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

So Covid is God's way of punishing us for aborting all the babbies?

How do you even get that?

ELM327

Davion Curved Frost wrote: »

If you're going to compare the Chinese Flu to 'wars' (back as far as 1812) and such like, bearing in mind WW1 was largely unavoidable for the US.

Perhaps do also display the numbers of (largely) preventable deaths due (mostly) to lifestyle and personal choice decisions, or even what could be classed incidences of irresponsibility e.g. Abortions of early life.

Of course in certain (perhaps minority) situations there may be some valid reasons outside of one's control, such as medical grounds.

I.e. In 2017, there were around 339,640 medical (legal/known of) abortions in the United States, that's about 1,000 per day. Since the formation of the USA, over 60million (known/medical) abortions of life.

Even in the uk, the 'worst case deaths sceanario' for this winter's covid wave2 is something like 65k. This figure will be still far, far under the amount of predicted (telemedicine only, no clinic vists) based abortions (phone up and get two pills delivered), during Covid this new 'ease of access' measure was introduced.

Around 180,000 abortions of early life are carried out (just in England) each year, that figure isn't widely known nor broadcast.
For another comparison less than 2k were killed in road accidents across the uk for 2019.

Please, please don't flood this thread with that nonsense.

The Raging Bile Duct

Danzy wrote: »

How do you even get that?

Just trying to figure out why someone would possibly want to shoehorn abortion into this debate.

Carfacemandog

ELM327 wrote: »

This isnt a war, it's a pandemic.
The only realistic comparison is pro rata numbers (ie deaths per 100k population) vs the spanish flu

A better comparison again would be N1H1, as modern medicine, equipment and understanding of viruses from 2009 to now are far more comparable than from 1918 to now.

In the case if we look at the most recent pandemic of 2009, the US had 12,500 deaths compared to 200,000 now - so 16 times less. The global death toll was also lower, though as a percentage of global deaths the US in 2009 accounted for about 4.4% of the total, while in 2020 they account for over 21%. None of this reflects well on how badly the Trump administration has failed the American public during this crisis, in no small part due to intentionally lying to downplay the virus while holding open air rallies around the country and encouraging people to take to arms in opposition to lockdown measures imposed in certain states.

We could also compare with Ireland or Europe, which Trump supporters were frequently citing earlier in the year to show how he was supposedly doing a good job with the virus. Looking at them now in September, the deaths per million count is:
- USA - 573/mn
- Ireland - 360/mn
- EU - 318/mn
- Europe - 281/mn

Given the head start that the US had on this front, with it barely hitting any of the nation outside of NY & NJ early on, their response cannot be seen as anything other than a resounding failure. And as things stand, with each passing day that gap between Europe/Ireland/the EU and the US just continues to get bigger and bigger. I suppose this is why those comparisons with Ireland stopped being made some time ago.

4068ac1elhodqr

ELM327 wrote: »

Please, please don't flood this thread with that nonsense.

Statistics are not nonsense.
Is the poster comparing 'deaths from wars' not of a similar context?

Bear in mind the US itself had little choice but to intervene into Europe (twice).
I.e. WW1/2 was largely or wholly un-preventable in order to stop Adolf.

4068ac1elhodqr

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Just trying to figure out why someone would possibly want to shoehorn abortion into this debate.

Or US deaths from largely unavoidable wars (WW1&2) ?

ELM327

Davion Curved Frost wrote: »

Statistics are not nonsense.
Is the poster comparing 'deaths from wars' not of a similar context?

Bear in mind the US itself had little choice but to intervene into Europe (twice).
I.e. WW1/2 was largely or wholly un-preventable in order to stop Adolf.

Abortions are not deaths and thus it is not relevant to the issue. There's plenty of pro life vs pro choice threads if you want to discuss that. I think the Trump threads are contentious enough without adding that gender reveal firecracker to this kindling :cool:

ELM327

Carfacemandog wrote: »

A better comparison again would be N1H1, as modern medicine, equipment and understanding of viruses from 2009 to now are far more comparable than from 1918 to now.

In the case if we look at the most recent pandemic of 2009, the US had 12,500 deaths compared to 200,000 now - so 16 times less. The global death toll was also lower, though as a percentage of global deaths the US in 2009 accounted for about 4.4% of the total, while in 2020 they account for over 21%. None of this reflects well on how badly the Trump administration has failed the American public during this crisis, in no small part due to intentionally lying to downplay the virus while holding open air rallies around the country and encouraging people to take to arms in opposition to lockdown measures imposed in certain states.

We could also compare with Ireland or Europe, which Trump supporters were frequently citing earlier in the year to show how he was supposedly doing a good job with the virus. Looking at them now in September, the deaths per million count is:
- USA - 573/mn
- Ireland - 360/mn
- EU - 318/mn
- Europe - 281/mn

Given the head start that the US had on this front, with it barely hitting any of the nation outside of NY & NJ early on, their response cannot be seen as anything other than a resounding failure. And as things stand, with each passing day that gap between Europe/Ireland/the EU and the US just continues to get bigger and bigger. I suppose this is why those comparisons with Ireland stopped being made some time ago.

An interesting comparison, but a false fallacy. The reason I suggested the 1919 flu as opposed to the h1n1 was because the latter didnt hit the US in the same way, and we had a lot more knowlege of flu vaccines in 2009 than 1919. We had/have limited to no knowlege of covid prevention medicine now, same as they had in 2019 on flu

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

This isnt a war, it's a pandemic.
The only realistic comparison is pro rata numbers (ie deaths per 100k population) vs the spanish flu

The other comparison would be how global numbers look and the US is performing abysmally.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

The other comparison would be how global numbers look and the US is performing abysmally.

Yes, but there's more anti vax (and now anti mask) morons there than anywhere else.

Danzy

Comparing the Spanish flu to Covid19 is very crass.
1% of the population here died of the Spanish flu.

No one expects 50k to die if Covid here, not now.

We should be thankful that it hasn't been as lethal as it could have been in America and here, rather than picking conflicts past and comparing.

Danzy

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, but there's more anti vax (and now anti mask) morons there than anywhere else.

In the Netherlands there is no debate about masks, very few wear them and the ones who so are often Irish, English or American.

Americans have been lax but they are far from the worst

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

The other comparison would be how global numbers look and the US is performing abysmally.

US (per million) is doing better than most of the countries in S.America, Spain, Italy and the uk (performing abysmally).

It's about the same as Sweden {no masks} for 2020 (578per million).

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, but there's more anti vax (and now anti mask) morons there than anywhere else.

Which he was encouraging, don't you remember him encouraging the militia that was calling for states to be reopen? Or him claiming that mask are pc... Or him having rallies where people prided themselves on not wearing masks(which included Herman Cain who is now dead). And throughout he's praised the great job he's done.

At a federal level, he ****ed up royally. Claiming that this is just because of loons is bs, particularly since many of those loons support him. Forgotten the drive around Hydroxochloruqine? His fans still push it.

Justin Credible Darts

amazing how a thread clearly entitled who thinks trump will win a relatively easy question to decipher and discuss....has turned in to a thread where trump hatred is so strong amongst some they would have you believe a democrat president would have somehow stopped covid.
Or there would be not obese people in the country with the worlds largest population of obese people.

Some of the nonsense spewed on here is hilarious how Trump is an idiot, if true, how did he get in to power, does that not say more about those voting for him ?
How bad was hilary then ?
How bad is Biden if Trump has a chance of winning again ?

If Trump is this stupid, this evil, this idiotic etc, surely he stands no chance in the election, but the democrat party cannot come up with a single decent challenger, and the best they could muster was boring old biden.

So for every biased and blinkered democrat lover, remember the democrat party as as guilty for Trump being office....but I am sure that will be glossed over.

Wanderer78

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

amazing how a thread clearly entitled who thinks trump will win a relatively easy question to decipher and discuss....has turned in to a thread where trump hatred is so strong amongst some they would have you believe a democrat president would have somehow stopped covid.
Or there would be not obese people in the country with the worlds largest population of obese people.

Some of the nonsense spewed on here is hilarious how Trump is an idiot, if true, how did he get in to power, does that not say more about those voting for him ?
How bad was hilary then ?
How bad is Biden if Trump has a chance of winning again ?

If Trump is this stupid, this evil, this idiotic etc, surely he stands no chance in the election, but the democrat party cannot come up with a single decent challenger, and the best they could muster was boring old biden.

So for every biased and blinkered democrat lover, remember the democrat party as as guilty for Trump being office....but I am sure that will be glossed over.

votes are only one element of this election, funding plays a bigger part, and yes, people clearly do vote for those that work against their best interests

Carfacemandog

ELM327 wrote: »

An interesting comparison, but a false fallacy. The reason I suggested the 1919 flu as opposed to the h1n1 was because the latter didnt hit the US in the same way, and we had a lot more knowlege of flu vaccines in 2009 than 1919. We had/have limited to no knowlege of covid prevention medicine now, same as they had in 2019 on flu

It is easy to forget that in 2009, we also had somehwat limited knowledge of N1H1; it is a far more apt comparison than over 100 years ago when the medical and pharmaceutical industries were barely if even comparable with today.

Of course, it did help the US that in 2009, they did not have a President who was actively looking to undermine efforts to control the spread to the extent of organising events that facilitated it moving through the population, who was falsely peddling drugs for other issues as preventative measures, nor did they have a President intentionally downplaying the potential impact or dangers of the virus while claiming it would just go away like a miracle.

If the US were performing at the same level of deaths for Covid as they did for N1H1 (4.4% of global deaths) they would have somewhere around 60,000 dead rather than the 200,000 number they are set to hit in the coming days.

Still, if you wish to apply the same for Spanish Flu which killed 675,000 Americans, the estimates on that globally are typically 17-50mn that died, meaning the US accounted for between 1.35 - 3.9% of the global total. Had they had a similar performance relative to the rest of the planet during Covid, their deaths would be somewhere in the 20,000 - 50,000 range.