Champions Cup 2020/2021 General Thread

ongarite

Premiership rugby mandate 2 week break in league after the postponement of European rugby.

The Inbetween is mine

ongarite wrote: »

Premiership rugby mandate 2 week break in league after the postponement of European rugby.

Exeter wonder what all the fuss is about as they go off on a spelunking and bat licking team building exercise

Burkie1203

French squad for 6n has been announced. About an hour after their govt forced the HC rounds 3 and 4 to be postponed

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/ioreilly85/status/1348699198418464769?s=19

Straight to last 16 it seems and knockout rugby


Ulster and connacht into Challenge cup.

The Inbetween is mine

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ioreilly85/status/1348699198418464769?s=19

Straight to last 16 it seems and knockout rugby


Ulster and connacht into Challenge cup.

Can't see that happening.... wouldn't be happy if because of the French bowing out..other teams get punished....and it goes straight to knockout... French sides should be excluded completely.
Ulster should be furious if this actually happened


Lost my train of thought.. hopefully you get the idea.

Burkie1203

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Can't see that happening.... wouldn't be happy if because of the French bowing out..other teams get punished...if the French bow out...and it goes straight to knockout... French sides should be excluded completely.
Ulster should be furious if this actually happened

Ulster were likely to get humped in Toulouse so it makes little or no difference

The Inbetween is mine

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Ulster were likely to get humped in Toulouse so it makes little or no difference

That's totally irrelevant

Cookiemunster

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

That's totally irrelevant

Is it? The best Ulster could have hoped for after the first two rounds was dropping into the Challenge Cup and even that wasn't guaranteed.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1349035246310862851

Clegg

The EPCR are deciding how to stage the knockouts. There are two ways to decide who plays who. One way is for the Top 4 sides in Pool A to play the sides who placed 5-8 in Pool B. That would lead to Leinster v Gloucester and Munster v Scarlets.

The other way is to pair sides in the same Pool. So that would be Leinster v Sale and Munster v Clermont. Decision is expected before the end of the month.

In the Challenge Cup we could see Benneton v Connacht and Newcastle v Ulster.

https://twitter.com/guardian_sport/status/1349060111122182145?s=09

Leinstertomas

The first option makes more sense to me. Would produce:

Leinster v Gloucester

Wasps v Exeter

Bordeaux-Bègles v Bristol

La Rochelle v Clermont

Lyon v Sale

Racing 92 v Toulon

Toulouse v Edinburgh

Munster v Scarlets

Digifriendly

To decide who's in knock out rounds after only 2 pool games seems unfair to me. Surely these 2 now upcoming blank weekends could have had at least 1 or 2 rounds of league matches in England/France and Irish/Welsh/Scottish/Italian derbies so free up weekends later to complete pool stages of European competitions.

Eod100

Digifriendly wrote: »

To decide who's in knock out rounds after only 2 pool games seems unfair to me. Surely these 2 now upcoming blank weekends could have had at least 1 or 2 rounds of league matches in England/France and Irish/Welsh/Scottish/Italian derbies so free up weekends later to complete pool stages of European competitions.

Seems especially unfair for teams who couldn't play because they had covid cases but not sure was there much of an appetite from EPCR or leagues to change things around

Lost Ormond

https://twitter.com/chrisjonespress/status/1349765732624723968

Exclamation Marc

From The42.

LEINSTER AND MUNSTER have effectively progressed straight into the last 16 of this season’s European Champions Cup after it was confirmed today that Europe’s final two rounds of group matches will be cancelled.

That means that the Champions and Challenge Cups are almost certain to move straight into the knockout phase.

The French government has blocked the Top 14 clubs from competing in cross-border competition this month due to its fears over the UK strain of coronavirus, which has sent the number of cases in England soaring.

The remaining two pool rounds were initially postponed but English Premier Rugby’s chief executive Darren Childs says they have now been abandoned because of the lack of space in an already full schedule.

Tournament organisers EPCR will decide within the fortnight what format the competitions should take, with a knockout phase launched by a round of 16 the likely option.

If so, Leinster and Munster will both have home ties – Leinster most likely against either Sale or Gloucester; Munster at home to either Scarlets or Clermont. Ulster and Connacht are likely to go into the Challenge Cup at the round of 16 stage.

yerrahbah

Oh wow.

Surely big questions over the 2 legged quarter finals now.

phog

Even with Covid as a driver it's a bit of a shambles to be deciding on who's into knockout rugby after only two rounds.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Even with Covid as a driver it's a bit of a shambles to be deciding on who's into knockout rugby after only two rounds.

It's the best of a bad situation really. The late start to the season meant they had to reduce the pool stages at the outset.

yerrahbah

An Asterix beside this years winners now for sure

Eod100

Was what was expected alright.

mailforkev

yerrahbah wrote: »

An Asterix beside this years winners now for sure

I’m grand with that if we can put it on the jersey. Yay six stars.

Cookiemunster

yerrahbah wrote: »

Oh wow.

Surely big questions over the 2 legged quarter finals now.

There are no questions, they simply won't happen. The top 8 in each pool will go into a one leg last 16 round. Then there'll be a one leg quarter final round.

lawrencesummers

phog wrote: »

Even with Covid as a driver it's a bit of a shambles to be deciding on who's into knockout rugby after only two rounds.

Going by this seasons form in all competitions it’s hard to see any team not in the last 16 that deserves to be there. Maybe some teams could have earned home advantage in the return fixtures but home advantage isn’t what it once was.

I don’t see any team that is being hard done by, Ulster would be in it had they held out in Gloucester (which they should have) but they couldn’t. Bath would be in the last sixteen if they didn’t get turned over by scarlets at home.

irelandrover

The only way that you don't make the last 16 is if you lost both of your opening games. No-one can feel hard done by that they don't make the last 16.

Digifriendly

irelandrover wrote: »

The only way that you don't make the last 16 is if you lost both of your opening games. No-one can feel hard done by that they don't make the last 16.

Point taken but to decide KO phase on just 2 games still seems unfair. Remember it used to be 6 games, then due to Covid it became 4 for this season, now it's down to 2. Add in the fact that some teams only played one game due to Covid and the situation just doesn't seem to be fair.

Cookiemunster

Digifriendly wrote: »

Point taken but to decide KO phase on just 2 games still seems unfair. Remember it used to be 6 games, then due to Covid it became 4 for this season, now it's down to 2. Add in the fact that some teams only played one game due to Covid and the situation just doesn't seem to be fair.

Have you a better suggestion? Everything is screwed up over Covid. Everyone is well aware is not exactly 'fair', but there isn't room to fit it in any other way. So it's either scrap the competition, which isn't going to happen, or get on with it.

Ulster and Connacht should now be looking at it as a very realistic chance of silverware. Lets be honest, neither of them would have any chance of winning the Champions Cup.

Digifriendly

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Have you a better suggestion? Everything is screwed up over Covid. Everyone is well aware is not exactly 'fair', but there isn't room to fit it in any other way. So it's either scrap the competition, which isn't going to happen, or get on with it.

Ulster and Connacht should now be looking at it as a very realistic chance of silverware. Lets be honest, neither of them would have any chance of winning the Champions Cup.

Personally I would have had rescheduled matches in Pro 14 and English Premiership from later in the season for these 2 consecutive weekends now coming up and used 2 saved weekends later on to complete pool stage of European competition. I know there are some matches from Pro 14 being played that were postponed both this and next weekend which seem to put a spanner in the works of my suggestion but where matches are postponed in Pro 14 I would have shared out the points. Unsure of Top 14 situation but I do feel the French have been calling the shots somewhat and European competitions have been devalued as a result. Just my thoughts.

Cookiemunster

Digifriendly wrote: »

Personally I would have had rescheduled matches in Pro 14 and English Premiership from later in the season for these 2 consecutive weekends now coming up and used 2 saved weekends later on to complete pool stage of European competition. I know there are some matches from Pro 14 being played that were postponed both this and next weekend which seem to put a spanner in the works of my suggestion but where matches are postponed in Pro 14 I would have shared out the points. Unsure of Top 14 situation but I do feel the French have been calling the shots somewhat and European competitions have been devalued as a result. Just my thoughts.

Not possible in the Pro14. The remainder of the season will be played during the 6N, so moving matches would leave no spare weekends for Europe. Nothing got to so with rescheduled matches as they were to be played over the 3 free weeks at the during February anyway. After that we're into a completely new competition with the Rainbow Cup. You can't move games from a yet to begin tournament into January.

Downlinz

Digifriendly wrote: »

Point taken but to decide KO phase on just 2 games still seems unfair. Remember it used to be 6 games, then due to Covid it became 4 for this season, now it's down to 2. Add in the fact that some teams only played one game due to Covid and the situation just doesn't seem to be fair.

It's not fair at all and bordering on farcical. There'll be a massive asterisk beside the name of whichever team wins this because it definitely won't have been a fair platform to find the best team in Europe.

thomond2006

Downlinz wrote: »

It's not fair at all and bordering on farcical. There'll be a massive asterisk beside the name of whichever team wins this because it definitely won't have been a fair platform to find the best team in Europe.

If it's so farcical, what was the alternative?

It turns out very little could have been planned for and knockout games is trying to make the best of a bad situation. I'll take whatever massive asterisk there is if it means the provinces can retain who they want to retain for next season. The winner will still have to win four knockout games.

Lost Ormond

Downlinz wrote: »

It's not fair at all and bordering on farcical. There'll be a massive asterisk beside the name of whichever team wins this because it definitely won't have been a fair platform to find the best team in Europe.

With way games have been called off, postponed. Competitions changing format. Everything will have an asterisk which is covid. How many alternatives could you have used and what would you see as better?

thomond2006 wrote: »

If it's so farcical, what was the alternative?

It turns out very little could have been planned for and knockout games is trying to make the best of a bad situation. I'll take whatever massive asterisk there is if it means the provinces can retain who they want to retain for next season. The winner will still have to win four knockout games.

Yep. Knockout games at least brings the competition to some form of conclusion which as you say is trying to make best out of the situation at play.

Former Former Former

yerrahbah wrote: »

An Asterix beside this years winners now for sure

People said the same during the 2019 RWC. And then they forgot about the asterisk.

More than likely, the best team will still win. If its a round of 16, we'll still have Leinster, Exeter, Racing, Toulouse and Munster involved. It's very unlikely the champions would have been anyone else under the old format, new format or this abbreviated format.

So while it's all a bit sh1t, it doesn't lessen the achievement of winning.

lawrencesummers

Downlinz wrote: »

It's not fair at all and bordering on farcical. There'll be a massive asterisk beside the name of whichever team wins this because it definitely won't have been a fair platform to find the best team in Europe.

What team is missing from the last 16 that makes the competition farcical?

Digifriendly

lawrencesummers wrote: »

What team is missing from the last 16 that makes the competition farcical?

I would put it this way. Which team shouldn't be there? Gloucester. They're bottom of the English Premiership and I don't think they would have won either of their 2 remaining pool matches.

Former Former Former

Digifriendly wrote: »

I would put it this way. Which team shouldn't be there? Gloucester. They're bottom of the English Premiership and I don't think they would have won either of their 2 remaining pool matches.

Well, Sale are in line to progress despite zero wins from two so I think they're even less deserving. Both of them will exit in the next round anyway so it will be a short lived problem.

But overall it's about as fair as it can be.

Cookiemunster

Digifriendly wrote: »

I would put it this way. Which team shouldn't be there? Gloucester. They're bottom of the English Premiership and I don't think they would have won either of their 2 remaining pool matches.

There been many teams that have progressed from previous HC groups despite doing poorly in their league. Only last season Toulouse booked a home quarter final despite being 7th or 8th in the Top14.
Edinburgh were the worst team in the Pro12 when the made the semi final.

The simple fact is that there is no easy way to resolve this. The weeks are not there to play the remaining two group games, so you make the best of a shltty situation.

And let's be honest, with the format this season and the cancellations that already happened, there would have been undeserving teams in the last 8 anyway

aloooof

Downlinz wrote: »

It's not fair at all and bordering on farcical. There'll be a massive asterisk beside the name of whichever team wins this because it definitely won't have been a fair platform to find the best team in Europe.

Out of interest, do you think the 6 Nations as farcical? Because that has a pretty unbalanced structure also.

As others have said, it’s trying to make the best out of a bad situation; I don’t really see what the alternative was.

The Inbetween is mine

aloooof wrote: »

Out of interest, do you think the 6 Nations as farcical? Because that has a pretty unbalanced structure also.

As others have said, it’s trying to make the best out of a bad situation; I don’t really see what the alternative was.

The French sports minister still hasn't given the go ahead to the games involving England & Ireland...if there is a surge in cases...the French won't travel, so it may yet turn farcical

Digifriendly

To use a metaphor from sport re Covid - the goalposts keep moving so its anyone's guess if the 6 N will go ahead and if the European competitions will finish. With a new variant now emerging and talk of a spike next winter of Covid cases we are literally in uncharted territory. Rugby has done well to conclude last season's competitions but there is no guarantee that this season's ones will conclude.

lawrencesummers

Digifriendly wrote: »

I would put it this way. Which team shouldn't be there? Gloucester. They're bottom of the English Premiership and I don't think they would have won either of their 2 remaining pool matches.

Don’t worry, they won’t be there for long more.
The best teams in Europe are all still in with a chance of winning the competition.
The only thing that has been reduced is teams ability to gain home advantage.

bilston

Digifriendly wrote: »

I would put it this way. Which team shouldn't be there? Gloucester. They're bottom of the English Premiership and I don't think they would have won either of their 2 remaining pool matches.

I still have no idea how we managed to lose to Gloucester.

bilston

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Don’t worry, they won’t be there for long more.
The best teams in Europe are all still in with a chance of winning the competition.
The only thing that has been reduced is teams ability to gain home advantage.

its a fair point, Leinster, Exeter, Racing and Toulouse are still there...Lyon are an interesting team this year and could cause some problems, but yes the best teams are still in it.

Toulouse get my vote.

lawrencesummers

bilston wrote: »

I still have no idea how we managed to lose to Gloucester.

They had a higher number on the scoreboard when the ref blew the final whistle.

Digifriendly

lawrencesummers wrote: »

They had a higher number on the scoreboard when the ref blew the final whistle.

I think he means how Ulster blew a 10 point lead against Gloucester when the game seemed in the bag. Upside for Ulster is that they are in a cup competition they have a reasonable chance of winning.

bilston

When are the last 16 matches expected to take place? And have they even been confirmed?

Cookiemunster

bilston wrote: »

When are the last 16 matches expected to take place? And have they even been confirmed?

They're due to take place on the weekend that the first leg of the quarter finals were due to be played and then the quarter finals will take place on the weekend the second legs were due to be played.

So last 16 2/3/4 April and quarter finals 9/10/11 April.

No word on fixtures yet though.

Lost Ormond

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2021/02/revised-epcr-tournament-formats-for-2020-21-season-announced/

2020/21 KNOCKOUT STAGE QUALIFIERS 

Heineken Champions Cup: Racing 92, Leinster Rugby, Wasps, Bordeaux-Bégles, Munster Rugby, Lyon, Toulouse, La Rochelle, Scarlets, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Bristol Bears, Exeter Chiefs, Edinburgh Rugby, Gloucester Rugby, RC Toulon, Sale Sharks. 

Challenge Cup: London Irish, Ospreys, Leicester Tigers, Cardiff Blues, Zebre Rugby Club, Agen, Benetton Rugby, Newcastle Falcons, Ulster Rugby, Connacht Rugby, Northampton Saints, Bath Rugby, Montpellier, Dragons, Harlequins, Glasgow Warriors.  

EPCR KEY DATES 

Knockout Stage Draws: Tuesday 9 March  

Rounds of 16: 2/3/4 April 

Quarter-finals: 9/10/11 April  

Semi-finals: 30 April — 1/2 May 

Challenge Cup final: Marseille – Friday, 21 May 

Heineken Champions Cup final: Marseille – Saturday, 22 May 

Eod100

Thats interesting that it will be a draw for last 16.

UAEguy2020

Wonder will Ulster put all their eggs in this basket if they don’t beat Leinster in 2 weeks? Looking at the teams in it surely Ulster would have to be favorites to win it?

Cookiemunster

Looks to be an open draw but clubs form the same league can't meet each other. And Munster, Leinster, Wasps, Bordeaux and Racing 92 are guaranteed a home last 16 tie as they won their two matches. So I suppose they can't meet each other either.
https://www.epcrugby.com/2021/02/24/revised-epcr-tournament-formats-for-2020-21-season-announced/