Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Rodney Bathgate

What is NPHED? I was expecting the thread poll to be about NPHET?

All these FLAs are very confusing.

MrMusician18

Zebra3 wrote: »

The stats are there for everyone to read on how "dangerous" the virus is.

Nobody expects any government to ignore any expert medical advice.

What people want is balanced, informed decisions being taken by our elected government.

The government has clearly stated that this is not happening.

You clearly do. You want them to balance medical advice against economic advice. In order to do that they clearly would have to ignore some of the medical advice they've received.

You can't have it both ways.

copeyhagen

irishblessing wrote: »

Why not?

because theyre kids, i dont want them forced to wear a mask. just my opinion.

emo72

The opinion poll is very close now. 2 months ago that would have been 90% in favor of them. I guess they are losing support rapidly.

ArthurDayne

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You clearly do. You want them to balance medical advice against economic advice. In order to do that they clearly would have to ignore some of the medical advice they've received.

You can't have it both ways.

But what we need to weigh up here is the fact that NPHET , in the current circumstances, are not just merely making healthcare recommendations — they are effectively calling the shots as to how the entire economy and society of the State function if their recommendations are more or less followed as a matter of course. This is an extraordinary and unprecedented level of influence for this kind of entity to have. Currently they can, as a body centred purely around healthcare, make recommendations with far-reaching socioeconomic and political consequences that may reverberate in this country for decades to come.

So we have to divorce ourselves from this idea that NPHET is simply making healthcare recommendations — they are effectively also holding the on/off switch for the economy and a raft of civil liberties. That’s not NPHET’s “fault” and it doesn’t make them evil or tyrannical — they are doing what is a bloody tough job and are acting within the remit of making recommendations to halt the spread of the virus. But the problem is that if the government just rolls with whatever they advise, then this body is indirectly wielding tremendous governing influence despite working on a narrow remit of preventing the spread of Covid, and therefore having tremendous influence over the administration of the State and a whole array of important things that are not within their remit or expertise.

NPHET’s role is to stop Covid, they are not going to get too caught up in the moral dilemma of devising socioeconomic policy which might be at odds with some elements of the Covid strategy. They are not going to make calls as to how many extra elderly deaths is a price worth paying to safeguard the future of younger Irish citizens. They are simply going to make calls which tackle the virus — and it is up to the government to weigh this against other important interests.

MrMusician18

emo72 wrote: »

The opinion poll is very close now. 2 months ago that would have been 90% in favor of them. I guess they are losing support rapidly.

Points more towards this site being overrun by a handful of moronic and/or selfish ghouls tbh.

SB71

i take nothing NPHET or indeed the government say seriously anymore, it's just fcuk up after fcuk up with them, if the situation wasnt so grave it would make for a great comedy,i genuinely think the vast majority of the people think the same, you cant take these clowns seriously anymore,anyone ive spoken to said it just beggars belief what they are doing.

SB71

emo72 wrote: »

The opinion poll is very close now. 2 months ago that would have been 90% in favor of them. I guess they are losing support rapidly.

indeed a few months ago the vast majority of people, myself included were all in favour of what they were doing,they seem to have gotten gradually worse since Tony Holohan retired and Ronan Glynn takes over and wants to keep everything locked down without the concrete evidence to back it up, he has to have something against pubs , i'm convinced of it by this stage,absolute and utter lunacy.

Ellie2008

emo72 wrote: »

The opinion poll is very close now. 2 months ago that would have been 90% in favor of them. I guess they are losing support rapidly.

That’s possibly mostly human nature though. If NPHET were 100% correct, people still wouldn’t want to hear it as naturally people are starting to tire of restrictions.

I feel very uncomfortable with any loss of human life. But watching the economy being blown to pieces with all of the human consequences is also awful. So I just don’t know, I wouldn’t want to be in government.

I watched videos of people who don’t agree with the lockdowns but they seem to be very much in the minority. One cancer consultant in Wales said that he estimates 20,000-50,000 cancer deaths due to Covid restrictions. On the other hand the UK government are now saying they are on course for 200 Covid deaths a day.

Some of the restrictions seem unnecessary.
Shutting down Dun-Laoghaire Rathdown seems unnecessary based on the numbers. I wonder if the government are afraid they’d be accused of discriminating against the working class if they didn’t.

SB71

Ellie2008 wrote: »

That’s possibly mostly human nature though. If NPHET were 100% correct, people still wouldn’t want to hear it as naturally people are starting to tire of restrictions.

I feel very uncomfortable with any loss of human life. But watching the economy being blown to pieces with all of the human consequences is also awful. So I just don’t know, I wouldn’t want to be in government.

I watched videos of people who don’t agree with the lockdowns but they seem to be very much in the minority. One cancer consultant in Wales said that he estimates 20,000-50,000 cancer deaths due to Covid restrictions. On the other hand the UK government are now saying they are on course for 200 Covid deaths a day.

Some of the restrictions seem unnecessary.
Shutting down Dun-Laoghaire Rathdown seems unnecessary based on the numbers. I wonder if the government are afraid they’d be accused of discriminating against the working class if they didn’t.

you do know large parts of Dun Laoghaire is working class, they arent all D4 types who speak as if they had a mouth full of marbles.:pac:

MrMusician18

ArthurDayne wrote: »

But what we need to weigh up here is the fact that NPHET , in the current circumstances, are not just merely making healthcare recommendations — they are effectively calling the shots as to how the entire economy and society of the State function if their recommendations are more or less followed as a matter of course. This is an extraordinary and unprecedented level of influence for this kind of entity to have. Currently they can, as a body centred purely around healthcare, make recommendations with far-reaching socioeconomic and political consequences that may reverberate in this country for decades to come.

So we have to divorce ourselves from this idea that NPHET is simply making healthcare recommendations — they are effectively also holding the on/off switch for the economy and a raft of civil liberties. That’s not NPHET’s “fault” and it doesn’t make them evil or tyrannical — they are doing what is a bloody tough job and are acting within the remit of making recommendations to halt the spread of the virus. But the problem is that if the government just rolls with whatever they advise, then this body is indirectly wielding tremendous governing influence despite working on a narrow remit of preventing the spread of Covid, and therefore having tremendous influence over the administration of the State and a whole array of important things that are not within their remit or expertise.

NPHET’s role is to stop Covid, they are not going to get too caught up in the moral dilemma of devising socioeconomic policy which might be at odds with some elements of the Covid strategy. They are not going to make calls as to how many extra elderly deaths is a price worth paying to safeguard the future of younger Irish citizens. They are simply going to make calls which tackle the virus — and it is up to the government to weigh this against other important interests.

Tackling the virus is their remit, it is up to the government whether or not to accept and implement it.

That said, you cannot tell the government to not ignore medical advice while at the same time also tell them to balance it with other priorities. By it's very nature, balancing policy requires some aspects of one side or other to be discarded.

The actual problem is that the people here commenting are saying that the medical advice should be followed but also weighed against other important areas of policy. It's a contradictory position that real policy makers do not have the luxury of having.

I await with interest the policy documents from our resident armchair experts that allow the economy to open fully and prevent our hospitals becoming overwhelmed and prevent needless suffering of the vulnerable.

Any day now...

MrMusician18

Ellie2008 wrote: »

That’s possibly mostly human nature though. If NPHET were 100% correct, people still wouldn’t want to hear it as naturally people are starting to tire of restrictions.

I feel very uncomfortable with any loss of human life. But watching the economy being blown to pieces with all of the human consequences is also awful. So I just don’t know, I wouldn’t want to be in government.

I watched videos of people who don’t agree with the lockdowns but they seem to be very much in the minority. One cancer consultant in Wales said that he estimates 20,000-50,000 cancer deaths due to Covid restrictions. On the other hand the UK government are now saying they are on course for 200 Covid deaths a day.

Some of the restrictions seem unnecessary.
Shutting down Dun-Laoghaire Rathdown seems unnecessary based on the numbers. I wonder if the government are afraid they’d be accused of discriminating against the working class if they didn’t.

The economy hasn't been blown to pieces, it had actually proved to be surprisingly resilient. Income tax receipts are only down marginally so far this year. House prices remain steady. GDP declines can generally be associated with the general work stoppage in March which has ended, with most now returning to work.

Ellie2008

SB71 wrote: »

you do know large parts of Dun Laoghaire is working class, they arent all D4 types who speak as if they had a mouth full of marbles.:pac:

I know, but it’s a perception thing I think. The minute an article on Covid rates in the areas in Dublin appeared on The Journal the comments descended into barbs about areas.

SB71

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I know, but it’s a perception thing I think. The minute an article on Covid rates in the areas in Dublin appeared on The Journal the comments descended into barbs about areas.

thats usually D4 types who think they are a cut above working class.

Ellie2008

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The economy hasn't been blown to pieces, it had actually proved to be surprisingly resilient. Income tax receipts are only down marginally so far this year. House prices remain steady. GDP declines can generally be associated with the general work stoppage in March which has ended, with most now returning to work.

I’m no expert but dies it not take awhile for the effects to materialise? What about the impact on people who haven’t been able to work since March - pubs, artists, some tourism?

niallo27

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Points more towards this site being overrun by a handful of moronic and/or selfish ghouls tbh.

Its spelled gowl.

MrMusician18

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I’m no expert but dies it not take awhile for the effects to materialise? What about the impact on people who haven’t been able to work since March - pubs, artists, some tourism?

All those parts of the economy are actually quite small from a financial perspective with the majority being low paid that they fall under the tax threshold. That's why tax revenues have held up.

The biggest sector to take a hit has been hospitality but that's been very low paid for a long time now.

That's says nothing of the personal impact this has had on those people.

appledrop

NPHET latest catch phrase is cut your contacts in half.

Yet they seem oblivious to fact that no teacher in any school can do this.

Also why are they blaming 'community transmission' on restaurants when no evidence of this whatsoever. They are guessing this but no evidence to back it up. Why are they getting airtime on this + not been challenged?

Strange how all figures have shot up when schools have going back + growing in just about every county but of course there couldn't be any connection!

MrMusician18

appledrop wrote: »

NPHET latest catch phrase is cut your contacts in half.

Yet they seem oblivious to fact that no teacher in any school can do this.

Also why are they blaming 'community transmission' on restaurants when no evidence of this whatsoever. They are guessing this but no evidence to back it up. Why are they getting airtime on this + not been challenged?

Strange how all figures have shot up when schools have going back + growing in just about every county but of course there couldn't be any connection!

Not everyone is a teacher. The guidance is obviously general and is for social contacts - it won't be possible for someone like a teacher or a nurse to cut their contacts in half.

Your ranting just sounds like you just want to have a go at them.

Zebra3

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You clearly do. You want them to balance medical advice against economic advice. In order to do that they clearly would have to ignore some of the medical advice they've received.

You can't have it both ways.

When you take on board advice and weigh it up against other concerns that is not ignoring advice.

If you can’t understand basic English, find somebody else to quote.

HBC08

Zebra3 wrote: »

The government has clearly stated that what NPHET say, goes.

NPHET do not take damage to the economy into their recommendations.

This is the issue,NPHET are doing their job ie giving the government health advise and recommendations.
It's the government's job to take this advice onboard and make decisions based on health,the economy and other factors.They are not upholding their end of the bargain,they are just blindly implenting NPHETs ideas and taking no responsibility
In the early days of this deferring to NPHET was the smart thing to do as we didn't know anything about this virus and
it was better to err on the side of caution,now it's just shows a complete lack of leadership.

Ellie2008

MrMusician18 wrote: »

All those parts of the economy are actually quite small from a financial perspective with the majority being low paid that they fall under the tax threshold. That's why tax revenues have held up.

The biggest sector to take a hit has been hospitality but that's been very low paid for a long time now.

That's says nothing of the personal impact this has had on those people.

I was thinking about the micro impact I suppose, although someone whom I’d expect understand these things told me yesterday that we are in a recession. I get the impression a lot of people think it will be worse than 2008. I’ve no idea if they’re right & I guess there’s still a lot of unknowns but I hope not!

MrMusician18

Zebra3 wrote: »

When you take on board advice and weigh it up against other concerns that is not ignoring advice.

If you can’t understand basic English, find somebody else to quote.

You are not taking their advice when you discard it.

If there is anyone has a problem with comprehension it's you. What you are arguing for is them to ignore or at least discount medical advice in favor of economic - even though the economy isn't suffering as badly as initially feared as shown by income tax receipts. When you have competing interests its one or the other, you can't have all of both. Saying to NPHET that "we hear you but economics is more important" is not taking advice on board - it's ignoring it.

So, what's your plan? Square the circle you have set out.

Zebra3

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You are not taking their advice when you discard it.

If there is anyone has a problem with comprehension it's you. What you are arguing for is them to ignore or at least discount medical advice in favor of economic - even though the economy isn't suffering as badly as initially feared as shown by income tax receipts. When you have competing interests its one or the other, you can't have all of both. Saying to NPHET that "we hear you but economics is more important" is not taking advice on board - it's ignoring it.

So, what's your plan? Square the circle you have set out.

When you listen to somebody's advice, whether you implement it or not, you have taken their advice.

It's time to start removing restrictions and tell people to take responsibility for themselves.

It's also time to start increasing taxes and cut back on dole and pension payments. This all has to be paid for.

BoatMad

hmmm wrote: »

The OP said:

"I've noticed more and more people that I talk to are saying they're taking no more notice of NPHET as they just seem to be repeating the same warnings as before...hygiene...social distancing...etc"

Free Ireland. Fire NPHET

MrMusician18

Zebra3 wrote: »

When you listen to somebody's advice, whether you implement it or not, you have taken their advice.

It's time to start removing restrictions and tell people to take responsibility for themselves.

It's also time to start increasing taxes and cut back on dole and pension payments. This all has to be paid for.

Grand so, you tell me how someone vulnerable, depending on a carer protects themselves from the virus?

Or do you not care if we throw them to the wolves. Because that's exactly what it sounds like you are advocating. All so leisure and discretionary social contact activity can resume?

Compassionate. I suppose you'll volunteer to catch it yeah?

BoatMad

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Grand so, you tell me how someone vulnerable, depending on a carer protects themselves from the virus?

Or do you not care if we throw them to the wolves. Because that's exactly what it sounds like you are advocating. All so leisure and discretionary social contact activity can resume?

Compassionate. I suppose you'll volunteer to catch it yeah?

The vulnerable self isolate , which they can effectively do. What’s the problem. This is not “ throwing them to the wolves “ if you have a sensitivity to a pathogen , then clearly the onus falls on you to ensure you mitigate your risks. That’s normal behaviour.

Zebra3

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Grand so, you tell me how someone vulnerable, depending on a carer protects themselves from the virus?

Or do you not care if we throw them to the wolves. Because that's exactly what it sounds like you are advocating. All so leisure and discretionary social contact activity can resume?

Compassionate. I suppose you'll volunteer to catch it yeah?

Compassion?

Irish people have consistently voted for parties who left people to die on hospital trolleys and homeless on the streets.

And now we have all this concern hysteria.

The fcking utter hypocrisy of it all. :rolleyes:

MrMusician18

Zebra3 wrote: »

Compassion?

Irish people have consistently voted for parties who left people to die on hospital trolleys and homeless on the streets.

And now we have all this concern hysteria.

The fcking utter hypocrisy of it all. :rolleyes:

That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think any Irish person has voted to lengthen or make healthcare harder to access. In fact they've voted for the opposite: consistently voting for those that promise to improve the health care system

So that's it. Let them get sick. Let's fill our hospitals well beyond breaking point. Let them die.
Old people, who needs them? At least you're honest.

The attitude on this forum would turn your stomach at times.

BoatMad

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think any Irish person has voted to lengthen or make healthcare harder to access. In fact they've voted for the opposite: consistently voting for those that promise to improve the health care system

So that's it. Let them get sick. Let's fill our hospitals well beyond breaking point. Let them die.
Old people, who needs them? At least you're honest.


The attitude on this forum would turn your stomach at times.

Where’s the evidence that allowing the vulnerable ( who arnt necessarily the elderly ) to protect themselves results in them dying , quite the opposite, if the vulnerable take these precautions they won’t get sick anyway