Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Zebra3

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think any Irish person has voted to lengthen or make healthcare harder to access. In fact they've voted for the opposite: consistently voting for those that promise to improve the health care system

So that's it. Let them get sick. Let's fill our hospitals well beyond breaking point. Let them die.
Old people, who needs them? At least you're honest.

The attitude on this forum would turn your stomach at times.

And that completes today's broadcast from Planet Hysteria.

If you support removing restrictions, you don't care about people and basically revel in their deaths. :rolleyes:

Pretty much everyone who has supported reopening the economy have consistently called for vulnerable to protect themselves.

But ranting and raving about some kind of genocide of old people (that won't happen given we've also seen the percentages) is the norm for so many lunatics on here.

Sardonicat

BoatMad wrote: »

The vulnerable self isolate , which they can effectively do. What’s the problem. This is not “ throwing them to the wolves “ if you have a sensitivity to a pathogen , then clearly the onus falls on you to ensure you mitigate your risks. That’s normal behaviour.

Quite often it actually falls on a carer. Who will also have to self isolate. And with day services gone that means 24hr a day 7 days a week without a break. 7 months now and counting. When you've done something like that come back and tell me how you got on. But I doubt you'd ever put yourself in that position seeing as you think the vulnerable should take care of themselves.

BoatMad

Sardonicat wrote: »

Quite often it actually falls on a carer. Who will also have to self isolate. And with day services gone that means 24hr a day 7 days a week without a break. 7 months now and counting. When you've done something like that come back and tell me how you got on. But I doubt you'd ever put yourself in that position seeing as you think the vulnerable should take care of themselves.

I’m not against any measures that allow the vulnerable to protect themselves if we need to over haul the carer systems let’s do it.

The solution is not to disembowel the rest of the population who are unlikely to be seriously affected in the process.

Ps I’m in the “ vulnerable “ age group

Sardonicat

BoatMad wrote: »

I’m not against any measures that allow the vulnerable to protect themselves if we need to over haul the carer systems let’s do it.

The solution is not to disembowel the rest of the population who are unlikely to be seriously affected in the process.

Ps I’m in the “ vulnerable “ age group

What do you mean 'overhaul the carer systems'?

jd1983

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The economy hasn't been blown to pieces, it had actually proved to be surprisingly resilient. Income tax receipts are only down marginally so far this year. House prices remain steady. GDP declines can generally be associated with the general work stoppage in March which has ended, with most now returning to work.

There's a very large disconnect between our real economy and GDP figures. There's a reason why Nobel prize winning economists described our GDP figures when they rose by over 25% in a year as leprechaun economics.
I can assure you our real economy is taking a bashing and there is very real suffering due to this.

Jackman25

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Points more towards this site being overrun by a handful of moronic and/or selfish ghouls tbh.

Much impact on your livelihood from the restrictions?

Downlinz

Lots of parallels between the anti-NPHET brigade and brexiteers in the UK. The reality is inconvenient so they're both deciding to ignore the experts and facts to suit their magical fantasy reality where everything is how it once was in the past.

They even parrot the same "lets get on with it" mantra.

Jackman25

Downlinz wrote: »

Lots of parallels between the anti-NPHET brigade and brexiteers in the UK. The reality is inconvenient so they're both deciding to ignore the experts and facts to suit their magical fantasy reality where everything is how it once was in the past.

They even parrot the same "lets get on with it" mantra.

How many deaths did we have today?

That reality isn't inconvenient in the slightest.

irishblessing

Jackman25 wrote: »

How many deaths did we have today?

That reality isn't inconvenient in the slightest.

How many are sick, unable to look after themselves or their families, and will be dealing with the effects long term? There are a number of people in hospital now and ICU-who knows the outcomes. But if spread continues at this rate, more people will contract it, more will become very ill, and more will die. Our health system will become overrun and the knock on effect of that is reality too.

MrMusician18

jd1983 wrote: »

There's a very large disconnect between our real economy and GDP figures. There's a reason why Nobel prize winning economists described our GDP figures when they rose by over 25% in a year as leprechaun economics.
I can assure you our real economy is taking a bashing and there is very real suffering due to this.

Explain why income tax receipts are only down 1% then.

The economy is almost fully operational again. It's really only leisure, international travel and recreation that remains suspended.

Royale with Cheese

I stopped listening to NPHET the moment Tony Holohan used his personal Twitter account to scare the public into not leaving the country, in complete contradiction to the plan Leo had just announced to open up to some European travel. You're supposed to advise the government, not run the country. They need to be taken from the forefront of the media and put into the background where they advise and that is all. Some leadership is needed here, but I wouldn't expect that from MM and Leo created this monster by giving them the keys to the country last march in the first place.

HerrKuehn

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Explain why income tax receipts are only down 1% then.

The economy is almost fully operational again. It's really only leisure, international travel and recreation that remains suspended.

a lot of the jobs lost had below average salaries, so they were not really paying much if any income tax. Most of the jobs with higher salaries and higher tax have been able to work from home.

hayoc

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The economy is almost fully operational again. It's really only leisure, international travel and recreation that remains suspended.

Cant say I agree with this.

There are many businesses that are still trying to hold on but are so deep in the red at this stage that they will end up closing or never reopening. They may not have gone bust yet, but there are definitely closures on the way.

The entire hospitality sector has been decimated. This gives a knock on effect to everyone who supplies the sector. So there are logistics companies, delivery companies, suppliers, accounting firms etc that will all suffer as a knock on.

But there are huge knock on effects to people working from home. The town where I work is seeing lots of closures of the businesses that thrived from office workers shopping at lunchtime, petrol stations, retailers, coffee shops, cafes etc - they just dont have the customer volume without the office staff coming into the area.

I can only assume professional drivers (taxis, buses etc) are taking a huge hit with people moving around less and social distancing.

Gyms wont survive under the current restrictions, social distancing means they cannot get the numbers in that they need to survive. Same goes for hairdressers, beauticians etc.. they may be open now, but their books are going to show losses from simply not being able to get through the same numbers of customers as they could without social distancing, plus PPE equipment costs.

The Arts have been decimated. No live theatre, concerts, shows, festivals, fairs etc.. All associated companies such as exhibition contractors etc will be feeling it too. Production was shut down on tv and filming for months too so they will be suffering losses etc.

We wont see the true economic impact for some time. Its still early days.

douglashyde

Downlinz wrote: »

Lots of parallels between the anti-NPHET brigade and brexiteers in the UK. The reality is inconvenient so they're both deciding to ignore the experts and facts to suit their magical fantasy reality where everything is how it once was in the past.

They even parrot the same "lets get on with it" mantra.

I actually think those for "blunt force lockdown" are more akin to brexiteers.

While meaning well, they are stubborn, emotionally charged and ignore changing facts & data (lots of cases but constantly decreasing death rate, comordability etc etc etc).

imo & a sweeping statement from me; but the demographic even seem the same. Older & protectionism at play < "I've had my fun and have my slice of the pie (home, secure job, pension)".

facehugger99

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Explain why income tax receipts are only down 1% then.

The economy is almost fully operational again. It's really only leisure, international travel and recreation that remains suspended.

LOL

The 'economy' has been kept afloat by borrowing billions of euros and artificially pumping it.

It's like sticking a lad on a ventilator and telling us his lungs are 'almost fully operational again'.

If you don't understand the unsustainability of this, and I suspect from your posts you don't, you should really do the research before embarrassing yourself on a public forum.

MrMusician18

hayoc wrote: »

Cant say I agree with this.

There are many businesses that are still trying to hold on but are so deep in the red at this stage that they will end up closing or never reopening. They may not have gone bust yet, but there are definitely closures on the way.

The entire hospitality sector has been decimated. This gives a knock on effect to everyone who supplies the sector. So there are logistics companies, delivery companies, suppliers, accounting firms etc that will all suffer as a knock on.

But there are huge knock on effects to people working from home. The town where I work is seeing lots of closures of the businesses that thrived from office workers shopping at lunchtime, petrol stations, retailers, coffee shops, cafes etc - they just dont have the customer volume without the office staff coming into the area.

I can only assume professional drivers (taxis, buses etc) are taking a huge hit with people moving around less and social distancing.

Gyms wont survive under the current restrictions, social distancing means they cannot get the numbers in that they need to survive. Same goes for hairdressers, beauticians etc.. they may be open now, but their books are going to show losses from simply not being able to get through the same numbers of customers as they could without social distancing, plus PPE equipment costs.

The Arts have been decimated. No live theatre, concerts, shows, festivals, fairs etc.. All associated companies such as exhibition contractors etc will be feeling it too. Production was shut down on tv and filming for months too so they will be suffering losses etc.

We wont see the true economic impact for some time. Its still early days.

I'm not saying they're aren't sectors that have been badly damaged, but in terms of the overall size of the Irish economy, these sectors are relatively small and in general low paid - relatively stable income tax returns are evidence of this.

The complete shut down in March was damaging to the wider economy, and a repeat of that will damage the economy further. Of course there are a handful of clowns here who are advocating for a further relaxation beyond what experts say is safe which will end up with us either having to bare a collapsed healthcare system and widespread suffering or lockdown again and the economic destruction that will entail.

There are no good options here

emo72

Awww lads, If NPHET stay true to form this is only ending one way. Another full nationwide lockdown. The numbers are rising at the same rate as before even with all the protocols and safety measures in place.

I can't see the numbers getting any better in dublin with this level 3 lockdown. There's too much activity with work and schools still open. They keep saying we have to learn to live with covid. But they are actually trying to wipe it out, and I don't think we can avoid a virus that spreads so easily without destroying our way of life.

Learn to live with it. Open everything. And invest a couple of billion in hospitals. The treatment is getting better. This should be considered. No way you will ever get rid of this with open borders. Peace out lads!

hayoc

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm not saying they're aren't sectors that have been badly damaged, but in terms of the overall size of the Irish economy, these sectors are relatively small and in general low paid - relatively stable income tax returns are evidence of this.

Thats NOW. The knock on effects will take time to become apparent. When there is no money left in the coffers to pay the loans that businesses took out to keep afloat during this time. Not to mention the massive losses they experienced and will continue to experience due to social distancing.

These effects wont be visible for months down the line.

Billy Ocean

Can't see public buy in reaching previous levels if measures are introduced.

People are drained from the situation as this stage weather we like it or not.

Oranage2

Definitely at a critical stage but I think NPHET can win over the public again. They just need to show real world evidence that a level 5 is warrented like showing there isn't enough icu beds and that trends are skyrocketing etc.

It's basically a case of lockdown now while we still have control or lockdown later when it's too late, unfortunately the general public just react to current trends and have no foresight so it will be difficult for them to buy into a lockdown now.

Also people want NPHET to come up with another solution but nowhere in the world has shown an alternative way of managing the virus and only Asian countries and isolated island nations have beaten Covid with lockdowns.

But I think a lockdown could be effective and it was effective the first time, we went wrong at the opening up stage and then continued to make mistakes like opening the schools etc to bring us up to the point that we're at currently.

But For people to buy into a second lockdown we need the government to show how we'll open up, we need to monitor food processing plants, we need to monitor direct provision centres and we need some sort of incoming travel restriction.

So in conclusion, for NPHET and the government to win the people back they need proper communication, we need reasons for a lockdown, then we need a plan, then we need what the plan will achieve and finally what they hope to do after the plan.

PommieBast

From the article in the Irish Times they more than hinted that it is 14-18 year olds who are a cause for concern. I read that as meaning the age group who are the worst for discipline.

As for buy-in the government has their work cut out. Another "critical X weeks" is simply not going to cut it, especially when the rest of the government (e.g. INIS) seems to have put their feet up.

The Wordress

No they should not.

Since the middle of last week, I have been hearing of case after case after case locally.

A lot of people I know have beem having a very Blase attitude to this virus. It'll never happen to me, I don't have to take precautions. Basically laughing in the face of it but like I said, people I know with this attitude have caught it and have had a real kick up the backside. Maybe they didn't contract it bad but they had to close their businesses temporarily and passed it to high risk people
etc.

Until we all get back on the same page, we will not kick this Virus' backside.

We all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet. Not one rule for Peter and another for Paul.

agoodpunt

i am in shock NPHET wants full lockdown OMG they will destroy more lives than covid19 can do.

Dublin city is already a waste land it economy is ruined beyond repair.

please disband this bunch of inepts immediately

lawrencesummers

Belt away.
Doesn’t bother me.


The lack of a strategy is the problem. It can be just and and down up and down.

Strict lockdown
Numbers drop.
Open up again people go mad
Numbers increase
Strict lockdown
Numbers drop.
Open up again people go mad
Numbers increase
Strict lockdown
Numbers drop.
Open up again people go mad
Numbers increase
Strict lockdown
Numbers drop.
Open up again people go mad
Numbers increase

Hellrazer

What is the point in having a 5 point plan when they can just jump from 2 to 5 without taking the steps in between?

We were told that the "living with covid plan" was the one they were sticking to.

Now you have these inept bunch of fools throwing that out the window again. The whole of NPHET need to be brought down a peg or two.

This might actually bring the government down and I predicted a pre Christmas election!!

orbital83

The public were duped last time into thinking this was a one off and if we all did some baking and recited we're all in this together it will be grand. So who knows. I'd hope the overwhelming majority who are acting responsibly grow a pair and stand up for their rights and mental health this time. Imposing a 5k radius without criminal proceedings is surely unconstitutional.

In terms of opening the schools being a mistake - is cancelling a year of a child's education and keeping them under effective house arrest and away from their friends not a mistake?

zerosugarbuzz

The Wordress wrote: »

No they should not.

Since the middle of last week, I have been hearing of case after case after case locally.

A lot of people I know have beem having a very Blase attitude to this virus. It'll never happen to me, I don't have to take precautions. Basically laughing in the face of it but like I said, people I know with this attitude have caught it and have had a real kick up the backside. Maybe they didn't contract it bad but they had to close their businesses temporarily and passed it to high risk people
etc.

Until we all get back on the same page, we will not kick this Virus' backside.

We all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet. Not one rule for Peter and another for Paul.

Since the middle of last week I have heard case after case of teenage and young adult severe depression resulting in all attending councillors. Also it makes perfect sense to have different rules for Peter and Paul if Peter is 80 and in poor health and Paul is 25 and fit. I mean seriously of course thy should be treated differently.

GarIT

agoodpunt wrote: »

i am in shock NPHET wants full lockdown OMG they will destroy more lives than covid19 can do.

Dublin city is already a waste land it economy is ruined beyond repair.

please disband this bunch of inepts immediately

Without a lockdown cases double every two weeks. Do you think thousands dying will be good for the economy?

Why does the economy matter more than people's health?

Akesh

GarIT wrote: »

Without a lockdown cases double every two weeks. Do you think thousands dying will be good for the economy?

Why does the economy matter more than people's health?

It doesn't but it's hard to justify a full lockdown when the planning and methodology so far have achieved very little. Ultimately it will get to the point where we will no longer be able to afford to lockdown the country.

I also think the public have very little confidence in the governance of this virus.

zerosugarbuzz

agoodpunt wrote: »

i am in shock NPHET wants full lockdown OMG they will destroy more lives than covid19 can do.

Dublin city is already a waste land it economy is ruined beyond repair.

please disband this bunch of inepts immediately

Have to agree. Disband NPHET and lets just go with the EU regulations. If I’d lost my job Or business through this fiasco I’d be raging.