Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

um7y1h83ge06nx

It's so frustrating, why can't some people just be sensible and adhere to the guidelines and we might have some chance of keeping numbers low.

I have been hearing loads of stories recently of teams celebrating match wins, big communion and confirmation parties etc. Closer to home, I live out in the country about 20 mins from UL and last week I've been hearing from colleagues about off licences in the Castletroy area being extremely busy with big queues outside when they drive past, peoples congregating outside the local shops. Lots of house parties there last week. Last Wednesday I did the grocery shop and there was still the odd one or two not wearing masks.

People getting annoyed they can't have house parties or that they have to wear masks. My worries are more basic, I worry my wife might contract the virus as a healthcare worker in UHL or that my parents might pick it up from somewhere.

I agree that the NPHET communication last night was extreme but some of the public were never in the dressing room with NPHET to begin with.

Russman

agoodpunt wrote: »

we are testing more and less hospital addmittions time around but still using the first lockdown comparison dispite better treatment and staff being more experienced rush to lockdown
dublin never got a chance to open proper so their was no promised reward for the first severe lockdown

The reward was the flattening of the curve.

Dublin pretty much did open apart from the wet pubs.

The first lockdown wasn’t severe, look at Spain where you had to show your receipt from the supermarket to police at checkpoints, now that’s severe.

Noo

Orlando2019 wrote: »

But that's exactly the point, whats the point to to bring from 1000 to 6 if you're letting it all go to hell again ?
Another lockdown how long will it take for the cases to drop again and how long for yet another resurgence, for how long will this game be going on for ?
When there will be no more jobs and the coutry will be bankrupt and thousands on the streets will it be worth,
This will all bring just more protests from people, just remember people are people not animals you cannot contain and silence them..
Its like piling up all the leaves from in your front yard just to let the wind blow it all over again

That depends on peoples attitudes. Right now many would probably overlook their neighbours house party thinking that sure things are getting back to normal anyway, but im sure as s*** they wouldnt stand for it (and all other restriction violations) if there was a level 5 lockdown.

Just look at Melbourne, if you want to get down to single figures then itll have to be a lockdown. The question is whether the general public will have the tolerance for rule breakers after this lockdown knowing that further lockdowns are a very real threat. Right now the attitudes is that weve done our lockdown and played our part so we can all go nuts, weh hey its all over lads! This time round people tolerance will wear pretty thin and they wont put up others not doing their part. That is what is needed to keep numbers down after coming out of lockdown.

GarIT

almostover wrote: »

Could you even make an attempt to disguise your utter contempt for those in low paid work? Also as an FYI Ireland's housing market is dysfunctional. My partner and I earn over €100k per year between us and have saved a sizeable deposit and we still can't afford a decent sized family home that isn't more than 40 mins from our workplaces.

What we disagree on then is whether or not 40 mins is an acceptable commute. I'd say an hour is, even an hour and a half if you have to.

is_that_so

Super_Sonic wrote: »

I agree that the NPHET communication last night was extreme but some of the public were never in the dressing room with NPHET to begin with.

But you don't exacerbate that by alienating the rest of the dressing room! You need to keep people onboard.

listermint

GarIT wrote: »

What we disagree on then is whether or not 40 mins is an acceptable commute. I'd say an hour is, even an hour and a half if you have to.

Here's a titbit for you. If everyone put their life on hold living in a ****ty bedsit like you until they could afford a home beside their jobs then the economy would grind to a halt. Our birth rate would be on its arse and there would be less new blood coming into the system to either do jobs your aren't willing to do or look after your arse in the hospital or support your state pension.


Butterfly effect. Often you don't have a notion that your views hold real consequences.


People shouldn't have to live in a ****ty bedsit or rent a room and neither should you.

um7y1h83ge06nx

is_that_so wrote: »

But you don't exacerbate that by alienating the rest of the dressing room! You need to keep people onboard.

Agree but I believe we're stuck now with the consequences of some of the reckless. I think the only solution is to introduce legislation to deal with people that don't adhere to restrictions - fines for hosting house parties etc. That might appease the majority of us.

Hector Savage

Hellrazer wrote: »

But you see this is the problem - theres not "thousands dying"
Weve had 1800 deaths in 7 months and even that figure is debatable and is probably only about 1000 at most.

Back in February we were told we`d have 100k deaths. The lockdown didn't save 98,000 and its not going to save 98,000 this time.

Its this scare mongering crap that has us the way we are.

Isolate the medically vulnerable and let the rest of the country get on with things.
That is the only solution.

Exactly, it's beyond a joke at this stage.

Virus is no where near as lethal as first feared, and a vaccine won't solve this, there has never been a vaccine with more than 50% effectiveness,
So taking that into account plus the long time it will take to globally distribute - thats 4 years to only reduce this by 50% ....


Open the society up ffs , let the vulnerable hide under their beds for the next decade .....

Orlando2019

GarIT wrote: »

I think many things have been mismanaged, but in general we do need a lot tighter restrictions to bring cases down. There may be a viable alternative but yeah in general I agree.

Not sure how it's relevant. I'm employed with no dependants, by choice because I decided I couldn't afford them yet.

Thanks, I know it's not relevant to anything I just wanted to see from what side your view is that's all.

listermint

Hector Savage wrote: »

Exactly, it's beyond a joke at this stage.

Virus is no where near as lethal as first feared, and a vaccine won't solve this, there has never been a vaccine with more than 50% effectiveness,
So taking that into account plus the long time it will take to globally distribute - thats 4 years to only reduce this by 50% ....


Open the society up ffs , let the vulnerable hide under their beds for the next decade .....

Let the vulnerable hide under their beds for the next decade....



Absolutely beautiful. Boards win of the day.

GarIT

Hector Savage wrote: »

Exactly, it's beyond a joke at this stage.

Virus is no where near as lethal as first feared, and a vaccine won't solve this, there has never been a vaccine with more than 50% effectiveness,
So taking that into account plus the long time it will take to globally distribute - thats 4 years to only reduce this by 50% ....


Open the society up ffs , let the vulnerable hide under their beds for the next decade .....

It only takes 60% immunity to complete eliminate a virus.

Chivito550

GarIT wrote: »

Without the last lockdown we could currently be at over 1 million cases and 30,000 dead. We have achieved a lot imo. Now we need another lockdown from that scenario happening around Christmas.

Certainly a lot has been mismanaged. Tourists still being allowed in was never a good look no matter how little affect they were having. I agree the dressing room has been lost.

Bullsh1t.

If lockdown prevents 1 million cases and 30,000 deaths, then how come we haven't seen 2 million cases and 60,000 deaths in Sweden?

Stop spluttering manure and presenting yourself as an expert.

Orlando2019

Noo wrote: »

That depends on peoples attitudes. Right now many would probably overlook their neighbours house party thinking that sure things are getting back to normal anyway, but im sure as s*** they wouldnt stand for it (and all other restriction violations) if there was a level 5 lockdown.

Just look at Melbourne, if you want to get down to single figures then itll have to be a lockdown. The question is whether the general public will have the tolerance for rule breakers after this lockdown knowing that further lockdowns are a very real threat. Right now the attitudes is that weve done our lockdown and played our part so we can all go nuts, weh hey its all over lads! This time round people tolerance will wear pretty thin and they wont put up others not doing their part. That is what is needed to keep numbers down after coming out of lockdown.

That's also a good way to put it.

irishblessing

Oranage2 wrote: »

Definitely at a critical stage but I think NPHET can win over the public again. They just need to show real world evidence that a level 5 is warrented like showing there isn't enough icu beds and that trends are skyrocketing etc.

It's basically a case of lockdown now while we still have control or lockdown later when it's too late, unfortunately the general public just react to current trends and have no foresight so it will be difficult for them to buy into a lockdown now.

Also people want NPHET to come up with another solution but nowhere in the world has shown an alternative way of managing the virus and only Asian countries and isolated island nations have beaten Covid with lockdowns.

But I think a lockdown could be effective and it was effective the first time, we went wrong at the opening up stage and then continued to make mistakes like opening the schools etc to bring us up to the point that we're at currently.

But For people to buy into a second lockdown we need the government to show how we'll open up, we need to monitor food processing plants, we need to monitor direct provision centres and we need some sort of incoming travel restriction.

So in conclusion, for NPHET and the government to win the people back they need proper communication, we need reasons for a lockdown, then we need a plan, then we need what the plan will achieve and finally what they hope to do after the plan.

Excellent post. And I'll add that our schools, like many other countries, should have had a hybrid remote learning plan in place from the start which would have given families the choices they need and in turn made our schools more safe with reduced class sizes. Students and families who are at risk are forced to take risks they shouldn't have to. Teachers, students and families are more at risk in these unsafe, over-crowded conditions. Mike Ryan of WHO has openly stated children 10 years of age and older contract and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. Yet primary students do not wear masks and official HSE guidance is children over 13 are recommended to wear masks.
Class closures and quarantines are happening all over the country at the moment without a national plan in place to continue education. It's absolutely ridiculous.

mohawk

almostover wrote: »

Couldn't believe the story when I heard it. Moronic doesnt even begin to describe. We should have on the spot fines of €100 for non compliance to the public health guidelines.

I have heard similar stories of people either showing symptoms or awaiting test results. Does anyone really believe those types of people will magically start behaving at level 5. I think it needs to be more then €100 fine.

paw patrol

Oranage2 wrote: »

Definitely at a critical stage but I think NPHET can win over the public again. They just need to show real world evidence that a level 5 is warrented like showing there isn't enough icu beds and that trends are skyrocketing etc.

.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Government had six months to sort out the hospitals for this event

This is an interesting point and one of complete failure on the part of the HSE or the state. We flattened to curve to protect the Hospital service initially.
But in the 7 months or so has the state or their agencies planned for a massive outbreak or an un-flattening of the curve? I don't see this myself.

How hard would be it be set up emergency triage in an Army Barracks or commandeer, a airport hanger (or something of that scale) or empty office block (or 5) for covid treatment.

It mighnt be pretty but it would allow the HSE to manage the situation better and massively increase capacity while normal hospital functions can carry on and people can live their lives a lot better.

The only drawback might be staff numbers but we could have planned for it and reallocated non essential work to non medical staff like the army or volunteers or whoever. They have had 7 months to do this.

It won't be perfect but a lot better than the current response to play snakes & ladders with Level 1 to Level 5.
desperate.

But regarding covid and the panic about the disease itself (i.e how deadly it actually is) , I think the lockdowns are unwarranted at all.

agoodpunt

Russman wrote: »

The reward was the flattening of the curve.

Dublin pretty much did open apart from the wet pubs.

The first lockdown wasn’t severe, look at Spain where you had to show your receipt from the supermarket to police at checkpoints, now that’s severe.

comparing spain is a load of bull....
dublin is like a ghost town it never opened templebar opened 10% ask any business owner and that was well delayed.
Hair salons repeatedly delayed why anybody would tolorate same again no way hose

Billgirlylegs

amadangomor wrote: »

The key word is effective investment. Successive governments have invested more than enough but the health system seems to a black hole for money.

The HS unions block reform/changing work practices so the health care staff staff who allow them to represent them and block reform on their behalf should have a look at themselves.

I am fascinated at how the "unions" block reforms.
what unions are you talking about?

Pretzill

I never bought into this level system - I think it was something the government imagined would ease public nervousness but I do believe if NPHET is seeking a lockdown they have a very good reason.

I just keep thinking of Italy in the early days and the horror of a very good health system imploding -

BringBackMick

NPHET got things awfully wrong during the summer.

They were panicking over 10 or 20 cases and kept bars etc shut.

They didn't allow people to have a summer, get away to see family without shaming, forced the covid obsession's to remain during the summer when we had negligible cases- they pretty much wasted 2 months.

Irish people never had a rest from COVID during the trough between waves - elsewhere in Europe they did.

We will regret this in the coming weeks as we face into wave 2- people are wrecked and never had a break.

And now they are panicking on this surge in cases.

I have zero trust in them at all.

Hector Savage

listermint wrote: »

Let the vulnerable hide under their beds for the next decade....



Absolutely beautiful. Boards win of the day.

I mean for them to isolate and protect themselves, this is unsustainable long term.

The govt and NPHET keep saying ... just a few more months etc ... bullsh1t, this will go on for the guts of a decade using this approach - they know this but won't admit it cos people will just revolt.

It won't be only the anti vaxxers and anti 5G crowd that will be marching then ...

whisky_galore

is_that_so wrote: »

But you don't exacerbate that by alienating the rest of the dressing room! You need to keep people onboard.

What will the public accept?

Carry on what you're doing, the numbers are rising but ye are all great, ye should all get a medal, shur twill be grand.

BringBackMick

And to add- if we go into level 5 now, what is the route out?? Will we delay and delay like in the first wave? this is the issue.

People might survive with 3 or 4 weeks of level 5 but they will not survive with the though this is pushed out for 12 weeks.

Assetbacked

Absolutely they have lost the locker room. Even talking to people who disagree with my complete dismissal of the virus as a cause of concern as they have some reservations about it, there is unanimous condemnation of this proposal. Happy clapping out the window and baking bread aren't going to cut it this time.

If a dozen ICU patients and a hundred people in hospital is the justification then maybe the health sector should've got the finger out when hospitals were sitting empty 6 months ago instead of sitting around ordering Deliveroo and making tik toks. The whole situation is a parody.

Hoboo

Since when did people stop listening to professional medical advice, because it doesn't suit them, and they know better, because they read something online and they don't know anyone who contracted Covid.

An opt out policy should be introduced, don't wear a mask, go wherever you like. But not a hospital or doctors surgery, you've opted out, you can treat yourself.

jackal

Yes they have lost the dressing room.

5 level plan - immediately undermined by fudging Dublin to 2.5, now completely out the door by suggesting going from 2 to 5 for all counties.

They have given the government a right kick in the teeth with this blindside recommended leap to the highest level.

It absolutely looks like ass covering on the part of the HSE. Our hospitals, good though they are, Run so close to capacity that they creak at the seams every year with the run of the mill winter viruses.

They know that there are going to be serious questions to answer when they can’t just do the usual fudge of having corridors full of trolleys.

The messaging from the HSE/NPHET has been awful. Constant panic mode, red alert, next two days/weeks crucial. Even back in summer with single digit cases they were constantly berating, warning, being cautious.

It’s just noise now because they have cried wolf too many times and after the 10th time you are told the next few days are crucial it loses its potency.

paw patrol

Hoboo wrote: »

An opt out policy should be introduced, don't wear a mask, go wherever you like. But not a hospital or doctors surgery, you've opted out, you can treat yourself.

refund me all the taxes I paid for these services...and my private health insurance...

Captain_Crash

Hoboo wrote: »

Since when did people stop listening to professional medical advice, because it doesn't suit them

One of the most common things people have done for generations after a medical diagnosis is get a second opinion. So the concept of questioning an expert is the norm.

Whats abnormal to me about NPHET is that there is a sense that they are beyond reproach and wont be questioned. There are literally thousands of examples in history of experts being ultimately wrong.

Richard Hillman

NPHET are playing political games, they are looking for more long term HSE funding.

The letter being leaked to RTE is no coincidence either. Ronan Glynns wife works for RTE. They are treasonous.

Fiery mutant

Hector Savage wrote: »

and protect themselves..

This is the problem In a nutshell. Do you Have any idea how many people in this country have a condition or ailment, or are in an age bracket where this virus could kill them? You think that many people should have to hide away so as they are not in harms way, just so you (just using the phrase, not necessarily meaning you) can go for a few pints, or go to the cinema.

It is the right thing to do, to try protect those who are more vulnerable in society.