Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

BluePlanet

Valhallapt wrote: »

NPHETs remit is too narrow. It is to stop deaths with Covid at all costs. It should be broadened to consider all health and conditions of the wider population.

A young father committing suicide, has huge long term health consequences for the children. You can’t say that one cohort of lives are more valuable than an other.

But none of NPHET's advice prohibits treatment for depression and suicide.

Dravokivich

Tenzor07 wrote: »

New Poll on the Journal: https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-level-5-5223725-Oct2020/

30% support a full L5 lockdown... all seems fairly even enough in the support for the various options.

NPHET need to be expanded to take in more business leaders, more medical experts, they are all locked into a "Groupthink" and Martin Mehole's Government are leaving the decisions up to the NPHET-HSE Oligarchy

Right so Ted.

Tenzor07

BluePlanet wrote: »

We are now at higher infection rates than when we went into Lockdown.
Lockdown works, we opened up too early and too lax.

Lockdown temporarily slows the rate of infections, doesn't stop them. We didn't open up to early NPHET has one of the most cautious approaches to dealing with the virus in Europe.
The Pubs never fully opened in Dublin, International travel was de-facto banned.

You can't eliminate Covid.

Billgirlylegs

Hoboo wrote: »

Since when did people stop listening to professional medical advice, because it doesn't suit them, and they know better, because they read something online and they don't know anyone who contracted Covid.

An opt out policy should be introduced, don't wear a mask, go wherever you like. But not a hospital or doctors surgery, you've opted out, you can treat yourself.

The issue is whether there is any evidence that people giving medical advice know what they are talking about.

For years, they have had access to and spent billions of pounds and and Euro.
Yet we still constantly have overcrowded A&E and trolley crises, constant infections in hospitals, and general disorganisation and / or chaos.

Due to basic medical incompetence, 1500 died in the early weeks of this mess. Since August, barely 100 people have. It appears that the virus has not changed or weakened inany major way.
Suggests that while medical staff are learning on the job, guidance from NPHET was as efficient as applying a sticking plaster.
And bear in mind, these "medical experts" had a "Pandemic Plan" before any of this arrived.

So no - as the whole NPHET / HSE / Department of Health operation is utterly incompetent, and as clueless as they have been over the last 20 years, they would be the last people I would trust with overseeing an emergency

BringBackMick

BluePlanet wrote: »

We are now at higher infection rates than when we went into Lockdown.
Lockdown works, we opened up too early and too lax.

We opened up too early? You joking? Bars never opened in Dublin when we had negligible cases, they opened up after rising appreciably in September! Utter madness..

We should have opened up 90% in June barring high risk areas like nightclubs etc and known that we are in the bottom period of the cycle and that another wave is likely again in autumn.

We seemed to dither on whether we wanted to go to zero for several weeks, starving business and peoples social life during a crucial period.

We had a lost summer due to dithering.

On the continent they had an unrestricted summer- we didnt.

And now we and the continent are all hitting the same wave, indeed our numbers could be worse.

I just hope we dont make the same mistakes

Valhallapt

BluePlanet wrote: »

But none of NPHET's advice prohibits treatment for depression and suicide.

If you think there is a shortage of ICU beds, there is black hole for mental health services

Years of chronically under investing / poor investment decisions of the HSE are at the root of this

irishblessing

Not only did they have time to prepare the HSE, and time to get the track and trace ramped up and sufficient (not to mention an exclusive branch for the schools and a hybrid remote learning plan) and they did not, but I'm after hearing that there are many sick and dying from cancer for example because those services have been reduced or removed. Meanwhile we all hand up a payroll tax for a health service that falls very short especially in terms of preventative care and those who don't want to become sicker and eventually die and can afford it pay extra for private health insurance on top of the tax. The running of this country by some measures is a g-d disgrace.

BluePlanet

Valhallapt wrote: »

If you think there is a shortage of ICU beds, there is black hole for mental health services

Years of chronically under investing / poor investment decisions of the HSE are at the root of this

So that's somehow NPHET's fault, or government?

ThunbergsAreGo

BluePlanet wrote: »

So that's somehow NPHET's fault, or government?

The HSE

arctictree

BringBackMick wrote: »

It is the easiest job in the world to say , cases are going up and hospital numbers rising steadily . Let's go level 5.

Give me a job on NPHET, i wonder how long the meeting lasted.

Lets go for level 5, cover our asses - let government make hard decisions.

Is there anyone on NPHET that isn't being paid by the taxpayer?

Valhallapt

BluePlanet wrote: »

So that's somehow NPHET's fault, or government?

NEPHET is the HSE

Tenzor07

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

The HSE

NPHET's fault for diverting focus from anything other than Covid.

The HSE's fault for mis-managing the provision of other health services

And the Governments fault for not reforming the HSE from the ground up over the past 10 years.

Fiery mutant

Humilde wrote: »

but I go by what I see in front of me, not what someone else is telling me to believe.

Good for you. I’ll go with What the medical experts recommend.

If I wanna know where Jim Corr buys his tinfoil hats, I’ll call you.

BluePlanet

irishblessing wrote: »

Not only did they have time to prepare the HSE, and time to get the track and trace ramped up and sufficient (not to mention an exclusive branch for the schools and a hybrid remote learning plan) and they did not, but I'm after hearing that there are many sick and dying from cancer for example because those services have been reduced or removed. Meanwhile we all hand up a payroll tax for a health service that falls very short especially in terms of preventative care and those who don't want to become sicker and eventually die and can afford it pay extra for private health insurance on top of the tax. The running of this country by some measures is a g-d disgrace.

Bingo.
Mis-management of our public services.
That falls on government, not NPHET.

There are other things governments can do here.
But options aren't being discussed, why?
For example a Universal Basic Income?

It seems to me that people are being squeezed in more ways than one, in part to protect the 'right' of big money to hoard property and hoard wealth.
Let the proles cram onto overcrowded trains and buses to work for their pennies and be damned if they get sick.

lawrencesummers

So NEPHET are recommending a lockdown.

That’s fine, their job is to do what is necessary for the health of the Irish people and the ability of the health system to cope with the demands that are placed on it.

It’s the government that accept it or not and put it into practice.

BUT.

If the government are going to implement it then they need to ensure that they provide the support that is needed.

Banks have already screwed customers over with mortgage breaks that are going to cost extra, the Government need to ensure That banks give proper breaks to people if there is another lockdown.

PUP needs to be weighted in favour of those with bills to pay, not kids living at home.

Nobotty

arctictree wrote: »

Is there anyone on NPHET that isn't being paid by the taxpayer?

yes,the head of the countries GP's for one
Her salary is paid by her practice
Professor Nolan is paid his Maynooth University salary as is de Gascun from UCD
Theres a few more I think

Pete Moss

The problem with the Living with Covid-19 Roadmap and Level system is that it effectively pins the Government to reacting and absolves them of proactive measues. It offers no clarification as to how the country will better itself when it escalates up a level.

The goal of escalation in levels is to get case numbers down in order to avoid hospitals and ICUs from becoming overwhelmed, but we have had seven months now of living with Covid-19 and nothing of note or significance has been put in place to reinforce our health service and make it more robust for dealing with or "Living with Covid-19".

Beasty

Threads merged

Ginger n Lemon

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

The issue is whether there is any evidence that people giving medical advice know what they are talking about.

For years, they have had access to and spent billions of pounds and and Euro.
Yet we still constantly have overcrowded A&E and trolley crises, constant infections in hospitals, and general disorganisation and / or chaos.

Due to basic medical incompetence, 1500 died in the early weeks of this mess. Since August, barely 100 people have. It appears that the virus has not changed or weakened inany major way.
Suggests that while medical staff are learning on the job, guidance from NPHET was as efficient as applying a sticking plaster.
And bear in mind, these "medical experts" had a "Pandemic Plan" before any of this arrived.

So no - as the whole NPHET / HSE / Department of Health operation is utterly incompetent, and as clueless as they have been over the last 20 years, they would be the last people I would trust with overseeing an emergency

Great post and great quote

walshb

MyStubbleItches wrote: »

A lot of people might just be sick of listening to an unelected government wearing blinkers imposing draconian rules on them. Curtailing life and possibly doing more harm than good to the population at this stage. IMO.

Unelected?

Ok......

Dravokivich

walshb wrote: »

Unelected?

Ok......

I've a feeling that's where a lot of the discontent is coming from. A large number of people are incapable of being told no and they are now commencing with the stomping of feet.

Elmer Blooker

walshb wrote: »

Unelected?

Ok......

No one elected those who are running the country.

bladespin

Honestly think they will struggle if they jump to level 5 while most of the country is on level 2, seems a crazy overreaction and makes a bit of a mockery of the whole level system.
Personally I think this is a saber rattling thing, a warning to tighten up but is that their job really or are they there to advise? The boundaries are becoming blurred as to who's in charge, more down to the government's woeful performance than anything else for me.



I'll do my bit, not much will change for me anyway, work will continue and we're not overly social so only real sacrifice is small things like the kids football etc.

walshb

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No one elected those who are running the country.

Have you any idea how elections and democracy and govt forming works here in Ireland?

GarIT

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No one elected those who are running the country.

I voted for them. The lighter Green and the Blue ones at least.

Dravokivich

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No one elected those who are running the country.

I'm pretty sure I remember voting in an election earlier in the year, or is that some sort of implanted memory? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Tenzor07

walshb wrote: »

Have you any idea how elections and democracy and govt forming works here n Ireland?

Yes, if you don't get elected on count 1, 2 , 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14...

Just wait for all the transfers on count 15 and hey presto you're a Government minister without getting enough votes from people to get elected by itself!
Democracy in action!


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30981121.html

arctictree

Nobotty wrote: »

yes,the head of the countries GP's for one
Her salary is paid by her practice
Professor Nolan is paid his Maynooth University salary as is de Gascun from UCD
Theres a few more I think

Which are mostly funded by the taxpayer via either medical cards or third level funding.....

walshb

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yes, if you don't get elected on count 1, 2 , 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14...

Just wait for all the transfers on count 15 and hey presto you're a Government minister without getting enough votes from people to get elected by itself!
Democracy in action!


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30981121.html

And..?

What has this got to do with a claim that this government was not elected?

ednwireland

no one remember these

https://www.emergencyplanning.ie/en/media/5

and
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/emergency-management/pandemicplan.html

pretty much following it as far as i can see