Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Valhallapt

Fiery mutant wrote: »

A lockdown worked for Kildare and Offaly. So maybe it’s just the Dubs who don’t give a sh1t about anyone but themselves.

No your mixing correlation with causation. Kildare lockdown was pointless. Track and trace in meat factories brought the pike under control

um7y1h83ge06nx

If more people were following the Level 2 restrictions and guidance would Dublin and Donegal be even at Level 3, much less any talk of Level 5?

It's very frustrating, putting it mildly, to see and hear people not adhering to the relatively mild Level 2 restrictions and guidance.

GarIT

Valhallapt wrote: »

NEPHET Thursday 1st October: "The current epidemiological data does not strongly support a move to Level 3 nationally at this time."


What has changed in 4 days?

As someone else said tony is back, or we had the day with 650 ish cases.

Dempo1

Fiery mutant wrote: »

A lockdown worked for Kildare and Offaly. So maybe it’s just the Dubs who don’t give a sh1t about anyone but themselves.

It absolutely did not work, have you seen the numbers in Kildare over the past few weeks, particularly celbridge albeit I accept its on the Dublin border. I live in Laois and the alleged lock down was a farce, their was absolutely no restrictions I could see and certainly no change in behaviours, indeed I can also mention to bouncing Castle parties not more than 4 doors from each other were stopped by Gardai who happened to be passing, these two parties about to occur 2 days into midland lockdown.

GarIT

Amelie Important Script wrote: »

If more people were following the Level 2 restrictions and guidance would Dublin and Donegal be even at Level 3, much less any talk of Level 5?

It's very frustrating, putting it mildly, to see and hear people not adhering to the relatively mild Level 2 restrictions and guidance.

More enforcement, leagal powers for the Gardaí and fines are needed imo. Along with a robust track and trace system and advertisements encouring people to take responsiblity for following the guidelines.

Fiery mutant

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What do you mean worked?

Last time I checked Kildare had 44 new cases alone on Sat... is that "success"?

Kildare exited lockdown at the start of September, after going into it in early August.

givyjoe

GarIT wrote: »

More enforcement, leagal powers for the Gardaí and fines are needed imo. Along with a robust track and trace system and advertisements encouring people to take responsiblity for following the guidelines.

If they haven't got one in place now, with all the time they had to do so, we'll never have one.

Ginger n Lemon

Dempo1 wrote: »

It absolutely did not work, have you seen the numbers in Kildare over the past few weeks, particularly celbridge albeit I accept its on the Dublin border. I live in Laois and the alleged lock down was a farce, their was absolutely no restrictions I could see and certainly no change in behaviours, indeed I can also mention to bouncing Castle parties not more than 4 doors from each other were stopped by Gardai who happened to be passing, these two parties about to occur 2 days into midland lockdown.

My friends who live in Newbridge, Kildare, told me identical thing.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

I agree but also if we want 100 more beds where do we find 400 nurses and 50 doctors that specialise in infectious deseases at short notice?

Remember Ireland's call back at the start of March?

https://www.thejournal.ie/on-call-for-ireland-workers-5170155-Aug2020/

Be On Call For Ireland: Only 209 workers given role in health service while 1,600 remain in a 'pool'

60000 signed up.

NPHET took over the private hospitals and basically just took them out of commission at huge expense.

Sweden have doubled their ICU capacity in this time. What have we done? Blamed the largely law abiding citizenry - and yes we have been better than the vast majority of European countries in this regard.

Meanwhile if you blatantly flout the rules, there is no punishment, and in the case of meat plants and judges you are actively protected and told you did nothing wrong. A farce of the highest order.

breezy1985

thebaz wrote: »

They also advice everyone to restrict movement and behviour, they should be protecting the at risk much more IMO, it certainly came across that in level 5 that the over 70's wont be as restricted as much as before .

What should we do lock them up? You are talking about the over 70s like they are mentally deficient. If they feel the need to isolate they can or they can take risks if they want

Ginger n Lemon

GarIT wrote: »

More enforcement, leagal powers for the Gardaí and fines are needed imo. Along with a robust track and trace system and advertisements encouring people to take responsiblity for following the guidelines.

I suppose you never heard of "improving healthcare system" phenomenon.

Well there is such.

I ll give you a hint, it works better than "more enforcement". And it can be done. Amazingly.

dunnerc

Fiery mutant wrote: »

A lockdown worked for Kildare and Offaly. So maybe it’s just the Dubs who don’t give a sh1t about anyone but themselves.

More anti Dub nonsense:rolleyes:Jesus wept !!

GarIT

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember Ireland's call back at the start of March?

https://www.thejournal.ie/on-call-for-ireland-workers-5170155-Aug2020/

Be On Call For Ireland: Only 209 workers given role in health service while 1,600 remain in a 'pool'

60000 signed up.

Sweden have doubled their ICU capacity in this time. What have we done? Blamed the largely law abiding citizenry - and yes we have been better than the vast majority of European countries in this regard.

I absolutely agree we need to be increasing capacity faster. But it is possible those people who applied don't have the right skills or training to work in the ICU, I don't know the inside workings of medical hiring.

Magicmatilda

bladespin wrote: »

Couldn't they have widened the brief a little, eg 1 nurse to 2 beds etc, exceptional times and all that they're telling us? From the looks of it they've pretty much done nothing to deal with the outbreak bar putting it on the general public to follow guidelines.

This, we went into lockdown to give HSE time to prepare and get themselves organised. Also to put in place an adequate test and trace system.

So what happened?

Some great opening posts in this thread amply answers the OP question - open the economy and expect figures to rise- any school kid can tell you that- the whole “surprise” act just flabbergasts me- so what have they done to prepare for this moment? And why have our ICU beds not increased? And why was everything OK on Thursday and now we’re facing level 5?

As a person who listened diligently to the reports up to now, I now feel totally alienated.

GarIT

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I suppose you never heard of "improving healthcare system" phenomenon.

Well there is such.

I ll give you a hint, it works better than "more enforcement". And it can be done. Amazingly.

I completely agree. but that won't reduce the number of people getting sick, might save some lives though. but some can't be saved even with the best treatment so prevention is better.

GarIT

Magicmatilda wrote: »

This, we went into lockdown to give HSE time to prepare and get themselves organised. Also to put in place an adequate test and trace system.

So what happened?

They improved things 10% in six months, seems like a failure to me.

Bass Reeves

Problem is most people have no common sense.

The pub owner that thinks it business as usual and tries to organise boozy brunches or do not adhere to 2hour rules etc

Colleges administration that encouraged students back in cities.

Business that started to look for people back into the office

The person that organisers a big birthday or communion bash

People that got out and mix with 2-3different subsets over 3-4 days

The idiots that do not even isolate for a week after a close contact or awaiting a test.

I could go on but continual lockdown is not the answer. We need the guards to have powers. We need people to cop on.

It amazing but common sense is not that common

Vieira82

This is NPHET Pontius Pilate moment. From now on, anything that happens, the government will be fully responsible for it and no one can dare point the finger at NPHET.

Humilde

agoodpunt wrote: »

any anti NPHET marches am in they are scare mongering clowns how dare they put information into the public domain without goverment approval

I think you'd probably find that they did have "unofficial" government approval to leak it first. This allows the politicians to look at the response before saying anything. Its votes that matter, not lives and certainly not the economy (SIC).

John O.Groats

QUOTE=Ginger n Lemon;114828270]I suppose you never heard of "improving healthcare system" phenomenon.

Well there is such.

I ll give you a hint, it works better than "more enforcement". And it can be done. Amazingly. [/QUOTE]

I guess that you, my ginger headed lemon faced old friend, has never head of personal responsibility. You should look it up. You can learn how to do it if you really try. Amazingly.;):)

thebaz

breezy1985 wrote: »

What should we do lock them up? You are talking about the over 70s like they are mentally deficient. If they feel the need to isolate they can or they can take risks if they want

Well it seams the general public, and those not really at risk are being asked to be locked away (almost) - Surley those at risk should be cocooned as much as possible so they dont become infected. I am not young, but should a whole younger generation be locked down for a year , even though they are low risk from virus ?

Oranage2

Vieira82 wrote: »

This is NPHET Pontius Pilate moment. From now on, anything that happens, the government will be fully responsible for it and no one can dare point the finger at NPHET.

Sounds that way, looks like NPHET are getting tired of the hearsay and just put their foot down, anything other than this is the governments decision.

Leaks everywhere, certainly not professional, Leo earlier saying he doesn't agree with strict guidelines with the icu and hospitalizations low, and now that whopper of a leak by NPHET yesterday. Looks like a lot of self interest at stake here.

Red Alert

I no longer have confidence in NPHET. It pains me to say it, but there it is.

The reasoning and methods behind the first lockdown made absolute sense in the acute short-term phase. The opening-up was delayed too long. Certain sectors like DIY stores were ideologically rather than scientifically chosen for closure. But overall the approach worked, but not without great economic and societal fallout.

This time around they met on Thursday and recommended no changes. 3 days later they want a full lockdown. Were they asleep at the wheel and failed to see impending catastrophe? Or, is an ideologically-driven agenda is now guiding their recommendations.

Bass Reeves

John O.Groats wrote: »

that you

I guess that you, my ginger headed lemon faced old friend, has never head of personal responsibility. You should look it up. You can learn how to do it if you really try. Amazingly.;):)

It amazing after all the advice people cannot understand that no matter how good the health service is it cannot cope if we allow the virus to carry on unchecked. It an exponential curve, the time from needing 10 bed to 100beds is 2-3 weeks but a thousand bed need is only another 2-3weeks.

I give up explaining to people who cannot understand that no matter how good the health service is it only 1-2 weeks longer to ammergeddon. It's about people and businesses copping themselves on

Iscreamkone

It's all part of the art of negotiation.
Scare them with Level 5.
Maybe then they will accept Level 3 or 4 without a whimper

copeyhagen

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Problem is most people have no common sense.

The pub owner that thinks it business as usual and tries to organise boozy brunches or do not adhere to 2hour rules etc

Colleges administration that encouraged students back in cities.

Business that started to look for people back into the office

The person that organisers a big birthday or communion bash

People that got out and mix with 2-3different subsets over 3-4 days

The idiots that do not even isolate for a week after a close contact or awaiting a test.

I could go on but continual lockdown is not the answer. We need the guards to have powers. We need people to cop on.

It amazing but common sense is not that common

thats called moving on.

the pub owner faces collapse.
teenagers need education.
businesses ened people in offices (even if its 1 day a week)
didnt hear of any communion or bday bashes personally

i could go on but the point is we were/are facing a huge recession and for the 99% of the public its no worse than a dose of seasona flu, at worse.

bladespin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I give up explaining to people

Finally, thank you.

The vast majority have complied and 'copped on' we did so in the belief that the HSE were working just as hard to be able to deal with the inflated numbers that relaxing restrictions would naturally bring, it's starting to very much look like one side hasn't held up their end of the bargain while the other is gradually loosing faith.

From where I'm sitting it really does feel like a bit of a betrayal tbh, from the essential worker outbreaks that should have/could have been prevented, to the meat factories, the nursing homes etc etc. It's a bit sickening to have it constantly bounced back that the people aren't complying.

Oranage2

Iscreamkone wrote: »

It's all part of the art of negotiation.
Scare them with Level 5.
Maybe then they will accept Level 3 or 4 without a whimper

NPHET : Michael, in order to expedite these negotiations, we are prepared to make you a very generous offer.

Michael: And we are prepared to reject that offer.

Ryan: Michael, you haven't even heard-

Michael: Never accept their first offer. What is your second offer?

NPHET: level 5
.
Michael: Are you kidding me? That is insultingly high. I don't even want to hear what your first offer was.

John O.Groats

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It amazing after all the advice people cannot understand that no matter how good the health service is it cannot cope if we allow the virus to carry on unchecked. It an exponential curve, the time from needing 10 bed to 100beds is 2-3 weeks but a thousand bed need is only another 2-3weeks.

I give up explaining to people who cannot understand that no matter how good the health service is it only 1-2 weeks longer to ammergeddon. It's about people and businesses copping themselves on

Well as I previously stated some peope have no concept of personal responsibility and instead try to deflect blame at everyone but themselves. An unfortunate but quite common character defect among a certain cohort.