Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Pretzill

I'll put this here, again. It's not about the aged, the infirm or even the aged & infirm - it's about lessening the spread of a virulent disease which has the potential to close hospitals ICU's - so the very healthy Jude or June who has an unfortunate traffic accident - steps out in front of a car or (and it does happen) get's very ill suddenly will be able to be treated and not left too long past the golden hour. How hard is it for the general public to see our health system is in crisis, and we can't cope with this load on it?

John O.Groats

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Were people drinking at home during a party responsible for the initial wave of deaths in the nursing homes?

If they were in contact with anyone who was present in a nursing home situation at that time be that staff or visitors then indirectly yes they were.

Tenzor07

Pretzill wrote: »

I'll put this here, again. It's not about the aged, the infirm or even the aged & infirm - it's about lessening the spread of a virulent disease which has the potential to close hospitals ICU's - so the very healthy Jude or June who has an unfortunate traffic accident - steps out in front of a car or (and it does happen) get's very ill suddenly will be able to be treated and not left too long past the golden hour. How hard is it for the general public to see our health system is in crisis, and we can't cope with this load on it?

Health system has been "In Crisis" for many years now, through many Governments, despite the fact that at once stage in the last decade we spent as much on healthcare as the best in Europe, such as Sweden.
We were told to lockdown completely for the summer months which we did, yet we seem to be in the same place as back then, as you say "Health system in crisis"...

Tenzor07

John O.Groats wrote: »

If they were in contact with anyone who was present in a nursing home situation at that time be that staff or visitors then indirectly yes they were.

Ok, was there testing of staff for the Virus and the clear instruction and supply of PPE for the Care workers also?

Pretzill

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Health system has been "In Crisis" for many years now, through many Governments, despite the fact that at once stage in the last decade we spent as much on healthcare as the best in Europe, such as Sweden.
We were told to lockdown completely for the summer months which we did, yet we seem to be in the same place as back then, as you say "Health system in crisis"...

I know it has, that's the point. And I think the first full Lockdown may have run on by a few weeks but it did work, at a time when the health system would not be under as much pressure and with help from the private system - another wave could be catastrophic not just for Covid sufferers but for anyone who acutely needs to use the services from babyhood upwards. Locking down again will do one simple thing, it will save lives.

ednwireland

Pretzill wrote: »

I'll put this here, again. It's not about the aged, the infirm or even the aged & infirm - it's about lessening the spread of a virulent disease which has the potential to close hospitals ICU's - so the very healthy Jude or June who has an unfortunate traffic accident - steps out in front of a car or (and it does happen) get's very ill suddenly will be able to be treated and not left too long past the golden hour. How hard is it for the general public to see our health system is in crisis, and we can't cope with this load on it?

there's already talk about a sovereign debt downgrade for ireland, borrowing money is going to get more expensive, crashing our economy even further will mean jude or june wont have a hospital to go to.
how hard is that to understand

unfortunately guess what - cant have both

bladespin

John O.Groats wrote: »

If they were in contact with anyone who was present in a nursing home situation at that time be that staff or visitors then indirectly yes they were.

Not really, unless they themselves entered the home (possible for sure).

Pretzill

ednwireland wrote: »

there's already talk about a sovereign debt downgrade for ireland, borrowing money is going to get more expensive, crashing our economy even further will mean jude or june wont have a hospital to go to.
how hard is that to understand

unfortunately guess what - cant have both

You cross those bridges when they arise. What do you suggest show them to the nearest cliff and say jump, now? We have recovered from worse recessions.

Ginger n Lemon

ednwireland wrote: »

there's already talk about a sovereign debt downgrade for ireland, borrowing money is going to get more expensive, crashing our economy even further will mean jude or june wont have a hospital to go to.
how hard is that to understand

unfortunately guess what - cant have both

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

oh no no no no . please no. please be a rumour.

if cost of borrowing goes up, USC will seem like child's play

Tenzor07

Pretzill wrote: »

I know it has, that's the point. And I think the first full Lockdown may have run on by a few weeks but it did work, at a time when the health system would not be under as much pressure and with help from the private system - another wave could be catastrophic not just for Covid sufferers but for anyone who acutely needs to use the services from babyhood upwards. Locking down again will do one simple thing, it will save lives.

Locking down just pushes the problem down the line, do you have any faith that the HSE can do in 1 month what they failed to do for years now?
Pushing out the problem for a month brings us further into Winter and the height of flu season...

Pretzill

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Locking down just pushes the problem down the line, do you have any faith that the HSE can do in 1 month what they failed to do for years now?
Pushing out the problem for a month brings us further into Winter and the height of flu season...

Yes it pushes it down the line - that's the point. We keep pushing until we get a vaccine, antiviral path to take to at least lessen or eradicate the pandemic.

ETA: When we come out of this, and we will - it's going to be a much different world, and certainly a different country. These things leave indelible marks, I think people have a hard time trying to parse the reality of it.

Tenzor07

Pretzill wrote: »

Yes it pushes it down the line - that's the point. We keep pushing until we get a vaccine, antiviral path to take to at least lessen or eradicate the pandemic.

That Vaccine is at very best estimation a year away... Can you imagine what sort of society we'd be left with in a years time, the constant job losses, having to borrow off international markets at high rates just to pay the welfare bill and all the state workers.... If no ones working and paying tax then that's what happens... No one is spending either, a news article says that savings amount of €10 billion because everyone is saving for the inevitable economic crash... No money is flowing in the economy because of the fact no one is spending, there's nothing to spend it on during a lockdown!
In a years time if all this continues then your Grandchildren's children will be paying for it..

John O.Groats

suicide_circus wrote: »

They can implement level 6, 7 and 8 restrictions but without enforcement it's pointless

Which is why strict enforcement measures need to be introduced and implemented ASAP. The namby pamby kid gloves policy needs to come to an end NOW.

Andrewf20

NIMAN wrote: »

No they aren't.
Show us a link to the figures showing this.

As of yesterday:
There are currently 134 confirmed cases of the virus in Irish hospitals with 21 patients requiring intensive care.

That's a long way from being overrun.

Same in UK. Some healthcare people questioning the draconian response with deaths so low vs March & calling into question the validity of testing.

givyjoe

Pretzill wrote: »

Yes it pushes it down the line - that's the point. We keep pushing until we get a vaccine, antiviral path to take to at least lessen or eradicate the pandemic.

ETA: When we come out of this, and we will - it's going to be a much different world, and certainly a different country. These things leave indelible marks, I think people have a hard time trying to parse the reality of it.

We cannot be sure we will get one soon enough though. While i agreed with lockdown one, we cannot go in and out of national lockdowns. The first one has already massively increased waiting lists, it's counter productive and we're gonna end up playing medical whack a mole. Never mind the catastrophic economic fallout from repeated lockdowns.

givyjoe

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Same in UK. Some healthcare people questioning the response with deaths so low vs March & calling into question the validity of testing.

NPHET seem to be completely missing this point. Case numbers now cannot be compared to case numbers in March/April. It was almost impossible to get a test then and the criteria was incredibly narrow. It's the exact opposite now and the positives being picked up now, were not being picked up then due to the lack of freely available tests.

Edit: I'm not questioning the validity of the testing at all, just that since the criteria for testing has drastically changed, the same conclusions cannot be drawn.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

oh no no no no . please no. please be a rumour.

if cost of borrowing goes up, USC will seem like child's play

We just need to tighten our belts:)

Tenzor07

Deleted User wrote: »

We just need to tighten our belts:)

"As a community we are living away beyond our means...."

Pretzill

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That Vaccine is at very best estimation a year away... Can you imagine what sort of society we'd be left with in a years time, the constant job losses, having to borrow off international markets at high rates just to pay the welfare bill and all the state workers.... If no ones working and paying tax then that's what happens... No one is spending either, a news article says that savings amount of €10 billion because everyone is saving for the inevitable economic crash... No money is flowing in the economy because of the fact no one is spending, there's nothing to spend it on during a lockdown!
In a years time if all this continues then your Grandchildren's children will be paying for it..

I'm not disagreeing with you - this is a pandemic the country, and further afeild is kinda f*cked for the next I don't know how many years - The cholera outbreak in the early 1800's took 20 years to go - and after Ireland had been hammered with that we got a famine which destroyed us. There is no easy path out of this. But time is long for younger people. That's what they have in their favour. Six months, a year? Is a lot better than 20 years and a famine.

I don't know I just think the more lives that are saved, the better.

Tenzor07

Pretzill wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you - this is a pandemic the country, and further afeild is kinda f*cked for the next I don't know how many years - The cholera outbreak in the early 1800's took 20 years to go - and after Ireland had been hammered with that we got a famine which destroyed us. There is no easy path out of this. But time is long for younger people. That's what they have in their favour. Six months, a year? Is a lot better than 20 years and a famine.

I don't know I just think the more lives that are saved, the better.

Of course, we can't save everyone though.

I've spoken with elderly people who would be very vulnerable to dying quicker if they contracted Covid, and many are left sitting in nursing homes now isolated completely from their relatives and loved ones and if given the choice would prefer to spend what time they have left in the company of those they love than being locked away alone until a vaccine arrives or death whichever is first....

Andrewf20

BluePlanet wrote: »

Do you know that the numbers of infected are greater today then they were when we underwent lockdown?

But deaths are nowhere near the same level in pretty much every country in the northern hemisphere. Cases here and with alot of our neighbours have been rising since July.

Pretzill

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Of course, we can't save everyone though.

I've spoken with elderly people who would be very vulnerable to dying quicker if they contracted Covid, and many are left sitting in nursing homes now isolated completely from their relatives and loved ones and if given the choice would prefer to spend what time they have left in the company of those they love than being locked away alone until a vaccine arrives or death whichever is first....

No, not everyone will be saved. But I detest the thought of a person who gets into trouble (sudden illness, accident) and doesn't get the help they needed because the hospitals can't cope. I also detest the fact that many elderly people have imposed cocooning (particularly in the country areas) without a pandemic on top of that - and then again people doing all they can to stay safe, cutting down on social activities etc and catching covid-19 because some numpty believes it's an affront to wear mask.

paw patrol

John O.Groats wrote: »

Which is why strict enforcement measures need to be introduced and implemented ASAP. The namby pamby kid gloves policy needs to come to an end NOW.

nothing better than more erosion of our freedom.
you'd fit in well in north korea

Tenzor07

Pretzill wrote: »

No, not everyone will be saved. But I detest the thought of a person who gets into trouble (sudden illness, accident) and doesn't get the help they needed because the hospitals can't cope. I also detest the fact that many elderly people have imposed cocooning (particularly in the country areas) without a pandemic on top of that - and then again people doing all they can to stay safe, cutting down on social activities etc and catching covid-19 because some numpty believes it's an affront to wear mask.

I agree, it's awful that our health service is so inefficient that we don't have the capacity to deal with an emergency. But as citizens we elect a government to run a service that we all pay for with our taxes, so we all feel very let down.

And we have a group that seem to be calling all the shots and are locking down areas where no Covid is present to any significant level and who even our elected T.D's can't question...

Tenzor07

paw patrol wrote: »

nothing better than more erosion of our freedom.
you'd fit in well in north korea

True..

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty or Safety....."


These words apply to many people in Ireland now...

Iscreamkone

Iscreamkone wrote: »

It's all part of the art of negotiation.
Scare them with Level 5.
Maybe then they will accept Level 3 or 4 without a whimper

Yes - it's only Level 3!!!

d15ude

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Yes - it's only Level 3!!!

Maybe 4 in Dublin...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/lockdown-live-cabinet-rejects-level-5-but-level-3-restrictions-likely-1019843.html

ThunbergsAreGo

d15ude wrote: »

Maybe 4 in Dublin...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/lockdown-live-cabinet-rejects-level-5-but-level-3-restrictions-likely-1019843.html

already more or less is

d15ude

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

already more or less is

i prefer the 'or less' situation

John O.Groats

paw patrol wrote: »

nothing better than more erosion of our freedom.
you'd fit in well in north korea

Freedom is fcukall use to you if you`re lying in a coffin or if you have long term serious health issues as a consequence of contracting the virus. But sure it`s your right to behave like a fcuking moron.