Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

GarIT

kippy wrote: »

It's designed for people who have gotten complacent or who aren't following the regulations, following them.
If that means putting fear into them then that has to happen.

That's why I think we should be doing ads like the drink driving ads of the 2000s with the deaths shown that changed the countries opinion on drink driving. Just replace "It only takes one drink" with "It only takes one cough" or "It only takes one touch" as in touching your face.

GarIT

I think RTE should take some responsibility for the way the message was delivered last night. A private letter that was obviously going to need to be discussed by government before being announced was leaked to them and they rushed to publish the details of it. And then they next day they complain about the message being confusing.

kippy

GarIT wrote: »

I think RTE should take some responsibility for the way the message was delivered last night. A private letter that was obviously going to need to be discussed by government before being announced was leaked to them and they rushed to publish the details of it. And then they next day they complain about the message being confusing.

That's the media in general.

There's nothing confusing about the base message. If it were followed by the vast majority we wouldn't be where we are right now.
The reason things may appear confusing is the balancing of economy versus public health in the short term.

jmlad2020

kippy wrote: »

That's the media in general.

There's nothing confusing about the base message. If it were followed by the vast majority we wouldn't be where we are right now.
The reason things may appear confusing is the balancing of economy versus public health in the short term.

RTE jumping on that little snippet of news like a fly on ****e. They are the issue not NPHET

Tenzor07

Vieira82 wrote: »

Sorry, you are correct, my wording was poor. I agree they wouldn't admit anything. What I am asking is if we know it was on the NPHET side that there was the leak?
If you look back at the current gov, it has been common to have a number of leaks occurring on it's side and we even had a few people being dismissed over said leaks.
So with this in mind, if we go by leaks alone it could be the leak came from the gov. side maybe?

Possible of course, there's political game playing going on here in the background as well between Varadkar and his Spin factory on one side and the unpopular leadership of FF by Martin Mehole on the other side, so a Gov. leak would be par for the course..

GarIT

kippy wrote: »

That's the media in general.

There's nothing confusing about the base message. If it were followed by the vast majority we wouldn't be where we are right now.
The reason things may appear confusing is the balancing of economy versus public health in the short term.

I would have hoped for better from RTE. This is one of the few times I think RTE should be controlled by the government.

I do believe the message is confusing. They set out levels and aren't following them. They say Dublin is level 3 but the pubs are closed. The rest of the country is moving to level 3 with the pubs open. We need consistency. There should be no circumnstances where changes are made to a level that ins't permanent and doesn't apply to all places at that level. The level is the level no exceptions, anything else is unclear and confusing to most people.

Rezident

No, sadly they are still getting attention but if they go to Level 5 in Dublin now with such a tiny death rate v everywhere else they will be openly ignored by thousands (millions?) of people and rightly so.

BoatMad

kippy wrote: »

It's designed for people who have gotten complacent or who aren't following the regulations, following them.
If that means putting fear into them then that has to happen.
This isn't rocket science.
Social distancing is the core principle - everything else is on top of that.
Those calling for less restrictions need to show that the populace can do social distancing.
Unfortuantely over the past few weeks we have seen a number of events happen that have led to massive amounts of cases.

Humans are social animals. Denying this for any length of time will be result in a dysfunctional society and the outcomes will be much worse then Covid

Fire NPHET free Ireland

MOH

GarIT wrote: »

I would have hoped for better from RTE. This is one of the few times I think RTE should be controlled by the government.

I do believe the message is confusing. They set out levels and aren't following them. They say Dublin is level 3 but the pubs are closed. The rest of the country is moving to level 3 with the pubs open. We need consistency. There should be no circumnstances where changes are made to a level that ins't permanent and doesn't apply to all places at that level. The level is the level no exceptions, anything else is unclear and confusing to most people.

By the sounds of it the rest of the country is moving to level 3 but with the pubs and restaurants at level 4 restrictions (outside, 15 people only). I mean, it's their plan. If they can't manage to follow it how do they expect everyone else to?

BoatMad

MOH wrote: »

By the sounds of it the rest of the country is moving to level 3 but with the pubs and restaurants at level 4 restrictions (outside, 15 people only). I mean, it's their plan. If they can't manage to follow it how do they expect everyone else to?

And in another plan pubs to remain open as long their customers remain in another county , three bags of tayto only allowed per customers. Hulahoops claimed an article in a German daily redtop said Covoid breeds on potato chips

Teachers drop dead in school yard but schools to remain open as there not a danger to anyone

BoatMad

GarIT wrote: »

I would have hoped for better from RTE. This is one of the few times I think RTE should be controlled by the government.

I do believe the message is confusing. They set out levels and aren't following them. They say Dublin is level 3 but the pubs are closed. The rest of the country is moving to level 3 with the pubs open. We need consistency. There should be no circumnstances where changes are made to a level that ins't permanent and doesn't apply to all places at that level. The level is the level no exceptions, anything else is unclear and confusing to most people.

Sure within hours we had level 2.5 , now we have level 3 minus , NPHET ignored all levels and lockdowns whole economy ,any other functioning democracy would have jailed NPHET along time ago.

All over the world politicians have told these idiots to take a jump

MOH

BoatMad wrote: »

All over the world politicians have told these idiots to take a jump

*citation needed

Vieira82

BoatMad wrote: »

Humans are social animals. Denying this for any length of time will be result in a dysfunctional society and the outcomes will be much worse then Covid

Fire NPHET free Ireland

No one is denying social contacts at all forever. We just need to look at other countries that have controlled the virus by sticking to the same rules NPHET has been on and on for months. Some of those countries are even third world countries. Look at Japan, look at Vietnam. But if you want a probable similar country look at NZ.

If you where to lockdown the country for two weeks, but REALLY locking down including boarders we could be like NZ in a few weeks time and that would mean a FULL return to normal.

Being an Island it makes it even easier for Ireland to do this. Of course there would be needed A LOT of planning to ensure basic needs are met, that supermarkets are supplied and so on and so on. And that's what we should be asking of the government not a band aid glued to a pandemic with spit.

Instead of rushing to open schools why is it not the gov using RTE to provide school classes through RTE? This is done in Portugal, they created a whole channel only for teaching at home. Which means if neede students can have school from home.

Of course a lockdown is bad for the economy, of course it's a last resort scenario, and of course in that case the gov. needs to ensure there's supports there to keep people going until we can say for sure we have it under control. But if other countries with less money than us did it and successfully curbed the virus using this technique why are we so quick to dismiss it?

Where is the proof lockdowns are inefficient?

Is it not better to have a full stop that ensures then the whole country can restart without restrictions than to have a half arsed openning with so many businesses not working at full capacity?

BoatMad

MOH wrote: »

*citation needed

About as much citation as NPHET gives I think

MrMusician18

BoatMad wrote: »

Sure within hours we had level 2.5 , now we have level 3 minus , NPHET ignored all levels and lockdowns whole economy ,any other functioning democracy would have jailed NPHET along time ago.

All over the world politicians have told these idiots to take a jump

I have to say I always suspected you were a crank.

kippy

BoatMad wrote: »

About as much citation as NPHET gives I think

I think you'll find otherwise....

BoatMad

Vieira82 wrote: »

No one is denying social contacts at all forever. We just need to look at other countries that have controlled the virus by sticking to the same rules NPHET has been on and on for months. Some of those countries are even third world countries. Look at Japan, look at Vietnam. But if you want a probable similar country look at NZ.

If you where to lockdown the country for two weeks, but REALLY locking down including boarders we could be like NZ in a few weeks time and that would mean a FULL return to normal.

Being an Island it makes it even easier for Ireland to do this. Of course there would be needed A LOT of planning to ensure basic needs are met, that supermarkets are supplied and so on and so on. And that's what we should be asking of the government not a band aid glued to a pandemic with spit.

Instead of rushing to open schools why is it not the gov using RTE to provide school classes through RTE? This is done in Portugal, they created a whole channel only for teaching at home. Which means if neede students can have school from home.

Of course a lockdown is bad for the economy, of course it's a last resort scenario, and of course in that case the gov. needs to ensure there's supports there to keep people going until we can say for sure we have it under control. But if other countries with less money than us did it and successfully curbed the virus using this technique why are we so quick to dismiss it?

Where is the proof lockdowns are inefficient?

Is it not better to have a full stop that ensures then the whole country can restart without restrictions than to have a half arsed openning with so many businesses not working at full capacity?

NZ is 2500 miles from its nearest neighbour and it’s situated in the middle of nowhere and exports sheep

Ireland shares a land border with 60 million people who are about 60 miles away and we have a dynamic open economy , 500 miles away it’s shares a federal arrangement with 350 million people the like of which doesnt exist elsewhere on the planet

There’s is nothing similar

We need to suppress the virus the foolhardy desire to reduce it to zero will kill the country.

The laugh , is we had a lockdown , the numbers fell , we relaxed , the numbers rocketed up.

Are you seriously suggesting a 12 months or possibly longer ( and how longer ) level 5 style lockdown.

What economy will be left to restart

Mental Health issues , people terrified by stasi style warning. Fear mongering and setting society against itself. That’s what NPHET has done

As the Swedish scientist told the gov commitee , some people have got power they never imagined and it’s a threat to democracy

By the way distance learning simply doesn’t work for many kids. They need the discipline of school or they just never get out of bed

crossman47

BoatMad wrote: »

Humans are social animals. Denying this for any length of time will be result in a dysfunctional society and the outcomes will be much worse then Covid

Fire NPHET free Ireland

So you think the government can handle a medical emergency without medical advice?

kippy

BoatMad wrote: »

NZ is 2500 miles from its nearest neighbour and it’s situated in the middle of nowhere and exports sheep

Ireland shares a land border with 60 million people who are about 60 mikes away and has a dynamic open economy , 500 miles away it’s shares a federal arrangement with 350 million people the like of which doesnt exist elsewhere on the planet

There’s is nothing similar

We need to suppress the virus the foolhardy desire to reduce it to zero will kill the country.

The laugh , is we had a lockdown , the numbers fell , we relaxed , the numbers rocketed up.

Are you seriously suggesting a 12 months or possibly longer ( and how longer ) level 5 style lockdown.

What economy will be left to restart

Mental Health issues , people terrified by stasi style warning. Fear mongering and setting society against itself. That’s what NPHET has done

As the Swedish scientist told the gov commitee , some people have got power they never imagined and it’s a treat to democracy

By the way distance learning simply doesn’t work for many kids. They need the discipline of school or they just never get out of bed

This is a suppression.....

BoatMad

crossman47 wrote: »

So you think the government can handle a medical emergency without medical advice?

Advice is just that advice

BoatMad

kippy wrote: »

This is a suppression.....

It’s a joke of a policy

Cocoon the vulnerable , nationalise all hospitals

Let the rest get on with living

thebaz

kippy wrote: »

It's designed for people who have gotten complacent or who aren't following the regulations, following them.
If that means putting fear into them then that has to happen.
This isn't rocket science.
Social distancing is the core principle - everything else is on top of that.
Those calling for less restrictions need to show that the populace can do social distancing.
Unfortuantely over the past few weeks we have seen a number of events happen that have led to massive amounts of cases.

Unfortunatly those that break the current lockdowns (the party goers and non social distancers) will do so anyway , regardless of what the lockdown level is , the scare mongering talk wont bother them , but the constant FEAR talk will petrify the vulnerable even more so.

GarIT

BoatMad wrote: »

NZ is 2500 miles from its nearest neighbour and it’s situated in the middle of nowhere and exports sheep

Ireland shares a land border with 60 million people who are about 60 mikes away and has a dynamic open economy , 500 miles away it’s shares a federal arrangement with 350 million people the like of which doesnt exist elsewhere on the planet

There’s is nothing similar

We need to suppress the virus the foolhardy desire to reduce it to zero will kill the country.

The laugh , is we had a lockdown , the numbers fell , we relaxed , the numbers rocketed up.

Are you seriously suggesting a 12 months or possibly longer ( and how longer ) level 5 style lockdown.

What economy will be left to restart

Mental Health issues , people terrified by stasi style warning. Fear mongering and setting society against itself. That’s what NPHET has done

As the Swedish scientist told the gov commitee , some people have got power they never imagined and it’s a treat to democracy

By the way distance learning simply doesn’t work for many kids. They need the discipline of school or they just never get out of bed

I believe NZ are still allowing cargo flights and ships. With our closer neighbours we could do that even better. Don't allow the pilots or ship crew off the vehicle, we unload the cargo turn them around and off they go. Contactless delivery.


We can't physically close the border but we can issue life sentences for people caught crossing it, they should be enough to deter people. 15 years in mount joy if you are caught driving a yellow reg car. Fines big enough to bankrupt any company if they are caught with an employee who lives in the north. The same for our lot if we are caught crossing the border. Even a 1-2 year prison sentence or €5,000 - €10,000 fine for individuals and €50,000 for companies should be enough to do it if we don't want to go completely overkill.


And no it's not 12 months of lockdown. 2 months of level 5 could get us to 0 cases. From there we have little to no restrictions anywhere except for level 5 lockdowns for 2 weeks in any county where a case is found.


If we couild get NI on board even better.

I don't know if I support that idea but it is not as impossible as people want to make it seem.

kippy

BoatMad wrote: »

It’s a joke of a policy

Cocoon the vulnerable , nationalise all hospitals

Let the rest get on with living

The vulnerable are all around you.
Not so easy to cocoon when a section of society have no issues with mass social gatherings, lack of caring for social distancing.
I agree re nationalisation of the hospitals and increased capacity generally, maybe ran by a more functional organisation than the HSE however

Vieira82

BoatMad wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting a 12 months or possibly longer ( and how longer ) level 5 style lockdown.

In Absolute no way I mentioned that at all? What is with you about putting words on other peoples posts?

Fact is we where actually on a very good track to curbing it completely until the gov. fell to pressure to speed up the opening up.

Imagine if the original plan was followed and we could now have zero restrictions and me an Asthmatic since I was 6 months old could actually go back to my business? Imagine normality if only people could allow a gov. plan to go through the end?

And you honestly believe NZ is completely isolated? How about South Korea or Vietnam? Look at how the lockdowns worked over there. How many people live on those countries compared to Ireland or NI?

And are you against locking down? Well me too and everyone is! EVEN those at the WHO.

Have a look here: https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?extid=PPlCBraUANDJTJPr&v=613855985950549&ref=watch_permalink

From one hour Dr. Mike Ryan clearly explaining locking down is to be used in the last case scenario and giving perfect examples of countries that avoided locking down at all and where are governments failing

This to say no one is looking to be home scratching their balls, but to do what is necessary to get this minimally under control like it already has hapenned...

kippy

thebaz wrote: »

Unfortunatly those that break the current lockdowns (the party goers and non social distancers) will do so anyway , regardless of what the lockdown level is , the scare mongering talk wont bother them , but the constant FEAR talk will petrify the vulnerable even more so.

I don't think you understand. If people don't obey the regulations you take options away from them. Which is what these additional regulations do.
This effects everyone.
And yes. The vulnerable may be more fearful but that's a result of what these people are doing in the first place and the increasing risk to them, rather than an increase in regulations....

BoatMad

kippy wrote: »

I don't think you understand. If people don't obey the regulations you take options away from them. Which is what these additional regulations do.
This effects everyone.
And yes. The vulnerable may be more fearful but that's a result of what these people are doing in the first place and the increasing risk to them, rather than an increase in regulations....

So how much personal freedoms would u remove

The army brought in , police baton charges

Thank goodness CIE scrapped all their cattle wagons a good few years ago

Those that would trade freedom for a little security , deserve neither

thebaz

kippy wrote: »

I don't think you understand. If people don't obey the regulations you take options away from them. Which is what these additional regulations do.
This effects everyone.
And yes. The vulnerable may be more fearful but that's a result of what these people are doing in the first place and the increasing risk to them, rather than an increase in regulations....

Whats your logic - if a small minority don't obey just add more restrictions on the compliant law abiding majority ? . My experience of that minority that are not complying, is that they will never comply, they will party wherever, they have been doing it since March, secretly - that is the reality of Ireland today.

Donald Trump

BoatMad wrote: »

Ireland shares a land border with 60 million people

GarIT

There's also the option of lockdown Sundays. Close everything, including food shops, execpt emergency services. Fine anyone caught outside their property without it being an emergency.



Gives people an extra day to realise they have it before the chance of spreading it in work on Monday. People can rest at home on a Sunday and socialise the rest of the week a bit easier if they need to socialise. It reduces the spread by up to 1/7th. Gives more time for test results to come back.


It's also the perfect time to switch to 4 day work weeks, and 4 day school weeks. Work capped at 36 hours per week. That would reduce the spread in workplaces and schools up to 20%.