Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

facehugger99

Deleted User wrote: »

See, this is an example of when you should not just click on the first link when you get your google search results.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/flu-vaccination/healthcare-workers/

"In 2019/2020 there was an increase in flu vaccine uptake both in hospital staff (58.32% compared to 53.2.8% in 2018/2019) and in staff working in long term care facilities (where there was a slight increase in uptake 43.1% compared to 42.2% in 2018/2019)"

Your figures were relatively correct but from misunderstanding rather than anything else.

The statistics in my hospital are 69% from last year. This information is not available in the public domain for the plebeians unfortunately.

LOL.

An "I was wrong" buried in a sea of nonsense.


My figures were the facts - your 69% figure is just internet made-up claptrap.

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

LOL.

An "I was wrong" buried in a sea of nonsense.


My figures were the facts - your 69% figure is just internet made-up claptrap.

Your figures were correct from the wrong subset of data. So you got lucky. I'm not going to get into an argument about this as well, you extrapolated the data from the wrong subset.

bucketybuck

Vieira82 wrote: »

Nice way to prove me right. Thank you

No problem. To recap, you believe that one leak from government is absolute proof that all leaks come from government.

I guess I can add illogical to naive. Have a nice day.

Vieira82

bucketybuck wrote: »

No problem. To recap, you believe that one leak from government is absolute proof that all leaks come from government.

I guess I can add illogical to naive. Have a nice day.

Thanks for proving me right by only using verbal attacks. Perfect rational and logical arguments from your part. It must suck to be proven wrong that the only thing you can come up is to call someone illogical and naive. What's the next insult you'll use I wonder?

facehugger99

Deleted User wrote: »

Your figures were correct from the wrong subset of data. So you got lucky. I'm not going to get into an argument about this as well, you extrapolated the data from the wrong subset.

You just can't read a spreadsheet and have embarrassed yourself.

You can prattle all you like about "subsets" - do you even know what the phrase means? Because I've a degree in mathematics and can tell you it's totally irrelevant to what you're talking about

I've posted a link to where I got my figures from - it's the HSE's own figures for take-up of the flu vaccine by Nursing staff in 52 hospitals. Anyone who wants can click into the spreadsheet and see I'm correct.

You posted a link to nonsense.


You're not going to get into an argument? - Yeah, good idea.

thebaz

Even the Opposition (Labour leader) is questioning rightly what NPHET did on Sunday - putting unnecceary stress on most of the country , those like me not in secure jobs , and those already suffering from anxiety, a lot of sense spoken by alan Kelly :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGh1JrNiPog

McHardcore

@karlitob, At this stage, I dont think you would accept any source of information that shows that there has been an excess of deaths caused by the pandemic.

• You wont accept the Euromomo figures that excess deaths increased by 14%.
• You wont accept the HIQAs figures that covid caused a 13% increase in deaths in Ireland between March and June.
• Neither will you accept the CSO's estimates based off RIP.ie that there were 1,072 deaths above those likely to be experienced under normal circumstances.

Instead you said that "eumom [?] says we don’t have excess deaths (a complex analysis of all European countries data)". Or that "rip.ie is just a notice board", even though the CSO said that it can be used to accurately indicate trends in mortality.

Id like to hear your next excuse when the CSO release the full year statistics next May.

Vieira82

McHardcore wrote: »

@karlitob, At this stage, I dont think you would accept any source of information that shows that there has been an excess of deaths caused by the pandemic.

• You wont accept the Euromomo figures that excess deaths increased by 14%.
• You wont accept the HIQAs figures that covid caused a 13% increase in deaths in Ireland between March and June.
• Neither will you accept the CSO's estimates based off RIP.ie that there were 1,072 deaths above those likely to be experienced under normal circumstances.

Instead you said that "eumom [?] says we don’t have excess deaths (a complex analysis of all European countries data)". Or that "rip.ie is just a notice board", even though the CSO said that it can be used to accurately indicate trends in mortality.

Id like to hear your next excuse when the CSO release the full year statistics next May.

Perfectly on point! Just like everything from the last few years, actual scientific data, actual facts do not matter. Only what whoever read and thought on that facebook, youtube post or wordpress website... Isn't it great to be alive in an age where reality is equal to what people want to make of it and not based on actual real, fundamented information?

irishblessing

facehugger99 wrote: »

Because I've a degree in mathematics and can tell you it's totally irrelevant to what you're talking about

Questions: is that a diploma or a university undergraduate degree? And are you using or teaching with that maths degree? I've seen your posts on boards- and to a high degree of illogical-ness... I'm intrigued. :pac:

I've a university degree from almost 15 years ago yet never went into that specific industry and I could not claim to be an expert in it either- having been a long while now, not being in use, and not holding a masters or Phd either.

FintanMcluskey

McHardcore wrote: »

@karlitob, At this stage, I dont think you would accept any source of information that shows that there has been an excess of deaths caused by the pandemic.

• You wont accept the Euromomo figures that excess deaths increased by 14%.
• You wont accept the HIQAs figures that covid caused a 13% increase in deaths in Ireland between March and June.
• Neither will you accept the CSO's estimates based off RIP.ie that there were 1,072 deaths above those likely to be experienced under normal circumstances.

Instead you said that "eumom [?] says we don’t have excess deaths (a complex analysis of all European countries data)". Or that "rip.ie is just a notice board", even though the CSO said that it can be used to accurately indicate trends in mortality.

Id like to hear your next excuse when the CSO release the full year statistics next May.

RIP has a hugh drop in postings for July, August and September compared with last year. Approximately 1000.

Q1 2020 had less deaths than Q1 2019, Q2 official figures will be published in late Novemeber.

2020 may well have less deaths than 2019

facehugger99

irishblessing wrote: »

Questions: is that a diploma or a university undergraduate degree? And are you using or teaching with that maths degree? I've seen your posts on boards- and to a high degree of illogical-ness... I'm intrigued. :pac:

I've a university degree from almost 15 years ago yet never went into that specific industry and I could not claim to be an expert in it either- having been a long while now, not being in use, and not holding a masters or Phd either.

Only if you count schooling that particular poster in the facts of the matter.

Maybe another nurse can post some other 'alternative facts' up because we had figures of 69%, 67% and 58% being bandied about.

The actual figure is 43.1% of eligible nurses out of 27,400, got a flu vaccine last year.

I'd love to hear the actual reasons why - perhaps they're all anti-vaxxers or are 'too tired' to get a 30second jab.

Goldengirl

irishblessing wrote: »

My sympathies with those night shift workers, it can't be easy. Would they not just get jabbed while at work though? A few years ago I went to the US for a project with a large, well known company. Over a couple of days their HR staff had organised a flu clinic to come in and people just came down from their offices and desks, got jabbed, went right back to it. They had an evening clinic too, some of the late workaholics went for that option. Never seen anything like it here... but surely it can be done.

Yes indeed that us why some of the big hospital groups have a 78% compliance .
Peer vaccinations and varied vacc clinic times to accomodate have made a huge difference in recent years .
While not an excuse , as all should if able take up the vaccine , it is more difficult historically for those in smaller facilities with less resources available to organise this and in those areas compliance is low and reduces the overall percentage of compliance .
Also night shift are not " late shifts " in nursing . People are leaving work after a 12 hour shift at 8 am . So in reality the best way to vaccinate night staff is a clinic at night or peer vaccination, where a member of staff is trained to vaccinate colleagues .
I would hope that a big push to vaccinate everyone in these sectors this year would see a change in this .

Goldengirl

bucketybuck wrote: »

Enlighten you on how illogical it is to say that one leak from government means that all leaks come from government? Really? You can't see for yourself how clearly wrong that is?

So NPHET could release whatever they wanted to RTE tonight and your response would be "There were leaks from the government previously so that leak could not have come from NPHET."

That sure is some solid reasoning.

It was released from Dept of Health .
Whether that was by SD or one of his staff or NPHET , we may never know .
But given the coordinated spin from our government on this on Monday night , I would think their new spin doctors organised this to try to clip Tony's wings , or do you think the government are such Angel's here?

McHardcore

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

RIP has a hugh drop in postings for July, August and September compared with last year. Approximately 1000.

Q1 2020 had less deaths than Q1 2019, Q2 official figures will be published in late Novemeber.

2020 may well have less deaths than 2019

Sources for these three points?

karlitob

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's a laughable low take-up by nurses.

It’s nothing short of a disgrace. And that goes for all clinical staff groups though nursing are the worst offenders.

It makes no sense that clinical members of staff exhort their science undergraduate training - a professional degree at that, their ongoing professional training and postgraduate training, about how much they care about their patients and yet have a disgracefully low uptake.

Vaccinations - along with Surgical sterilisation - are the two single most important advancements in healthcare in the history of humankind. Yet those who purport to be highly trained professionals who have patient safety at the core of their discipline do not take a vaccine. It is morally bereft. They should lead by example - especially given the support that the state gives clinical members of staff not only in terms and conditions but also on ease of free access to a vaccination each year.

The public should be outraged.

Goldengirl

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So there we have it, genuine reasons to spread a lethal illness to vulnerable people.

Read my post.
Do you think those in office jobs would go in to work to get a vaccine after a 12 hour shift , in their time off , while due back on duty in less than 10 hours for another.?
And glad you finally recognise that Covid 19 is A LETHAL ILLNESS , Fintan , that is a step in the right direction !
Hope you have got your own jab now

Goldengirl

karlitob wrote: »

It’s nothing short of a disgrace. And that goes for all clinical staff groups though nursing are the worst offenders.

It makes no sense that clinical members of staff exhort their science undergraduate training - a professional degree at that, their ongoing professional training and postgraduate training, about how much they care about their patients and yet have a disgracefully low uptake.

Vaccinations - along with Surgical sterilisation - are the two single most important advancements in healthcare in the history of humankind. Yet those who purport to be highly trained professionals who have patient safety at the core of their discipline do not take a vaccine. It is morally bereft. They should lead by example - especially given the support that the state gives clinical members of staff not only in terms and conditions but also on ease of free access to a vaccination each year.

The public should be outraged.

I think the public know that nurses are doing their best , unlike some people posting here .

FintanMcluskey

karlitob wrote: »

It’s nothing short of a disgrace. And that goes for all clinical staff groups though nursing are the worst offenders.

It makes no sense that clinical members of staff exhort their science undergraduate training - a professional degree at that, their ongoing professional training and postgraduate training, about how much they care about their patients and yet have a disgracefully low uptake.

Vaccinations - along with Surgical sterilisation - are the two single most important advancements in healthcare in the history of humankind. Yet those who purport to be highly trained professionals who have patient safety at the core of their discipline do not take a vaccine. It is morally bereft. They should lead by example - especially given the support that the state gives clinical members of staff not only in terms and conditions but also on ease of free access to a vaccination each year.

The public should be outraged.

I highlighted this yesterday as I was shocked and I belived it would correlate to issues with the Covid vaccine if/when it is approved.

Influenza and Covid are both diseases deadly to vulnerable in the care if those people. Luckily Covid appears much less dangerous to children than the flu.

Helath care workers are held to higher standards than general public when it comes to this issue and I think it needs to be highlighted.

karlitob

Goldengirl wrote: »

I think the public know that nurses are doing their best , unlike some people posting here .

And there we have it ladies and gentleman.

No criticism of nursing allowed. No acknowledgement of failures in nursing. No acknowledgment of their responsibility to the tax payer and their patients/service users.

Standard response though
- don’t acknowledge any failures
- see it as a personal attack on the profession (you’ll see from my post that I referenced clinical staff and not nursing)
- trotting out the old line of ‘doing their best’
- general attacking the person for calling out these behaviours.
- using ‘the public’ to support their position.....whoever ‘the public’ are.

Well I’m a member of ‘the public’. Maybe ‘your best’ isn’t good enough. Maybe it’s nothing got to do with the other clinical and work related issues that nurses like to conflate when they’re on the back foot.

I know and work with many many nurses - they don’t want to take the vaccine for a variety of reasons including concerns with receiving a vaccination.

karlitob

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I highlighted this yesterday as I was shocked and I belived it would correlate to issues with the Covid vaccine if/when it is approved.

Influenza and Covid are both diseases deadly to vulnerable in the care if those people. Luckily Covid appears much less dangerous to children than the flu.

Helath care workers are held to higher standards than general public when it comes to this issue and I think it needs to be highlighted.

Agreed. Not all clinical staff are angels/heroes - or heroines/ etx. Like all walks of life - some are excellent, some are neutral, some are brutal. But all have a moral responsibility to protect patients by the very nature of their profession.

karlitob

Goldengirl wrote: »

Read my post.
Do you think those in office jobs would go in to work to get a vaccine after a 12 hour shift , in their time off , while due back on duty in less than 10 hours for another.?
And glad you finally recognise that Covid 19 is A LETHAL ILLNESS , Fintan , that is a step in the right direction !
Hope you have got your own jab now

Yes.

Especially after the following are exhausted
- peers ‘trained’ in administration (funny how some tasks clinical staff want and others they don’t want)
- free vaccinations in your nearest pharmacy

gary550

Goldengirl wrote: »

Read my post.
Do you think those in office jobs would go in to work to get a vaccine after a 12 hour shift , in their time off , while due back on duty in less than 10 hours for another.?
And glad you finally recognise that Covid 19 is A LETHAL ILLNESS , Fintan , that is a step in the right direction !
Hope you have got your own jab now

Literally every illness of planet earth has the potential to be lethal

Divisadero

Goldengirl wrote: »

Those used to cushy 9 to 5 jobs wouldn't understand .
People are so tired after working a 12 hour nightshift to hang around for another hour for the occupational health to come on duty before they go home . Many have long distances to commute.
And some have to go home and get children out to school or creche before they hit the hay for a few hours .
And finally your figures are outdated Fintan. That was 2016 .
The uptake for flu vaccine is closer to 67% now generally.

If someone really wants the flu shot and is too tired to wait around. Just go to your GP or pharmacist in your own time. That's what I do (Boots). Free if you are in an at risk group or living with someone who is or elderly. 20 or 30 Euros otherwise. Boots for example let you book online. No excuse for not getting it if you want to.

Vieira82

karlitob wrote: »

And there we have it ladies and gentleman.

No criticism of nursing allowed. No acknowledgement of failures in nursing. No acknowledgment of their responsibility to the tax payer and their patients/service users.

Standard response though
- don’t acknowledge any failures
- see it as a personal attack on the profession (you’ll see from my post that I referenced clinical staff and not nursing)
- trotting out the old line of ‘doing their best’
- general attacking the person for calling out these behaviours.
- using ‘the public’ to support their position.....whoever ‘the public’ are.

Well I’m a member of ‘the public’. Maybe ‘your best’ isn’t good enough. Maybe it’s nothing got to do with the other clinical and work related issues that nurses like to conflate when they’re on the back foot.

I know and work with many many nurses - they don’t want to take the vaccine for a variety of reasons including concerns with receiving a vaccination.

You clearly have not been admitted to a hospital in recent times or have to use the ER recently to be writing this. Or...

Vieira82

gary550 wrote: »

Literally every illness of planet earth has the potential to be lethal

True, can you show me other diseases with so many dead in... 10 months of existence?

FintanMcluskey

Vieira82 wrote: »

True, can you show me other diseases with so many dead in... 10 months of existence?

Heart disease.

About 18m deaths a year I believe

Captain_Crash

Vieira82 wrote: »

True, can you show me other diseases with so many dead in... 10 months of existence?

Black Death, HIV, Smallpoox, Swine Flu, Spanish Flu, Bubonic Plague (several of them), countless influenza outbreaks!! And these are just the ones off the top of my head.

facehugger99

karlitob wrote: »

And there we have it ladies and gentleman.

No criticism of nursing allowed. No acknowledgement of failures in nursing. No acknowledgment of their responsibility to the tax payer and their patients/service users.

Standard response though
- don’t acknowledge any failures
- see it as a personal attack on the profession (you’ll see from my post that I referenced clinical staff and not nursing)
- trotting out the old line of ‘doing their best’
- general attacking the person for calling out these behaviours.
- using ‘the public’ to support their position.....whoever ‘the public’ are.

Well I’m a member of ‘the public’. Maybe ‘your best’ isn’t good enough. Maybe it’s nothing got to do with the other clinical and work related issues that nurses like to conflate when they’re on the back foot.

I know and work with many many nurses - they don’t want to take the vaccine for a variety of reasons including concerns with receiving a vaccination.

Not to mention outright lies

Goldengirl wrote: »

The uptake for flu vaccine is closer to 67% now generally.

The nurses and their unions are one of the main reasons we have such a terrible health service.

They are one of the reasons we as a country, with on of the youngest populations in Europe and a health spend per head above the EU average have a health system that is so badly equipped to deal with Covid.

facehugger99

Vieira82 wrote: »

True, can you show me other diseases with so many dead in... 10 months of existence?

Malnutrition.

We even have a cure for it - it's called 'food'.

It's killed way more people in the last 10 months than Covid - just not as many white westerners.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The statistics in my hospital are 69% from last year. This information is not available in the public domain for the plebeians unfortunately.

I certanly hope you aren't dealing with patients if this is your attitude.