Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

Dempo1

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's great to see case numbers on the rise. It means people are getting sick of these stupid restrictions over a relatively harmless virus. Number of deaths are tiny once again and no doubt consist of people in their late 80's or 90's.

Let the vulnerable isolate themselves for a few months, the rest of the country needs to get on with their lives.

Hopefully we can see this very positive trend continuing into next week.

Words escape me

karlitob

Dempo1 wrote: »

Words escape me

Except those three.

Dempo1

karlitob wrote: »

Except those three.

I clearly didn't want to make my response to difficult to comprehend (understand), (Grasp) etc etc

karlitob

karlitob wrote: »

Except those three.

So you think these numbers are ok, fellow HCP?:)

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Most people are getting mild or no symptoms.
My 7 month pregnant daughter got Covid , so did her husband , her mother and father in law ,both overweight and 60 . All got mild symptoms, all kept working from home. No doctors, no hospitalization, no side effects. Too much scaremongers and heresay . The fact is very few are getting more than mild symptoms.

Obesity ,old age and heart disease are the underlying conditions that CAN make Covid worse, this has been flagged. The entire country should not be on lockdown . Vulnerable people should shield themselves , there should be an education marketing campaign that spells out what makes people vulnerable.

Over 19,500 test were carried out on Friday, the highest number of tests ever ! OBVIOUSLY cases will rise if we are testing this amount. Expect a huge rise today or tomorrow. It’s only numbers .

Is there a reason we are testing more people I wonder?
Should we stop testing people so the numbers go down?

gary550

kippy wrote: »

Is there a reason we are testing more people I wonder?
Should we stop testing people so the numbers go down?

Better availability of tests, more capacity, better turnarounds

Why they aren't reporting a number of very vital parameters everyday along with cases and deaths is the thing that is bothering me.

kippy

gary550 wrote: »

Better availability of tests, more capacity, better turnarounds

Why they aren't reporting a number of very vital parameters everyday along with cases and deaths is the thing that is bothering me.

It's also down to:
More people with symptoms, more close contacts, generally more people being referred for tests, as well as standard testing before certain activities/in certain environments. People are not just being tested for the craic, there's generally a good reason for it and unfortunately the logic would suggest that current there are far more people who have the virus in Ireland now than there were back in march/April/may. A combination of reduced restrictions and less adherence to restrictions that are in place

What vital parameters are you missing?

Vieira82

McHardcore wrote: »

It is worrying. We had 1068 cases on April 15. That was the highest that we got.

What is very worrying is that the percentage of positive tests has doubled to 6.5%.
I would like this to remove any doubt in the people who say "more cases is because of more testing" but unfortunately I dont think it will. They will find something else to question the health experts on.

like it was said here before, ppl will only take this seriously when there's bodies pilling on the streets which mind me happened already in several countries that body disposal ended up either in huge pits or being handled by the military... but hey we're all the doom and gloom crowd.

gary550

kippy wrote: »

It's also down to:
More people with symptoms, more close contacts, generally more people being referred for tests, as well as standard testing before certain activities/in certain environments. People are not just being tested for the craic, there's generally a good reason for it and unfortunately the logic would suggest that current there are far more people who have the virus in Ireland now than there were back in march/April/may. A combination of reduced restrictions and less adherence to restrictions that are in place

What vital parameters are you missing?

How do you know? testing was in its infancy with a lot lower capacity with tests being prioritised only for those that showed symptoms.

The main vital parameter being the number of tests carried out, an absolutely essential piece of information when looking at the number of people who are positive. How many are negative each day?

gary550

Vieira82 wrote: »

like it was said here before, ppl will only take this seriously when there's bodies pilling on the streets which mind me happened already in several countries that body disposal ended up either in huge pits or being handled by the military... but hey we're all the doom and gloom crowd.

People dead on the streets? It is a respiratory illness with progressively worsening symptoms, not a fall out of your standing sudden dead whilst shopping illness

In the infancy of the pandemic there was photos of dead people in the street in china surrounded by men in white suits & masks that were spread far and wide by the media :rolleyes:

That was happening around the same time that the world's leading heath bodies were telling us that the now essential masks were useless and not the wear them

Donald Trump

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's great to see case numbers on the rise. It means people are getting sick of these stupid restrictions over a relatively harmless virus. Number of deaths are tiny once again and no doubt consist of people in their late 80's or 90's.

Let the vulnerable isolate themselves for a few months, the rest of the country needs to get on with their lives.

Hopefully we can see this very positive trend continuing into next week.

Grand. I see that we've found a volunteer for preliminary clinical trials of the vaccine then?


Although from other things I've read, there seems to be a large overlap between the people shouting about a "relatively harmless virus" and those getting preemptive rants in against imagined mandatory vaccination.




It seems strange to me that the people who aren't afraid of a harmless virus appear to be afraid of a deactivated version of it.

kippy

gary550 wrote: »

How do you know? testing was in its infancy with a lot lower capacity with tests being prioritised only for those that showed symptoms.

The main vital parameter being the number of tests carried out, an absolutely essential piece of information when looking at the number of people who are positive. How many are negative each day?

I told you how I know in the next sentence....

Donald Trump

gary550 wrote: »

People dead on the streets? It is a respiratory illness with progressively worsening symptoms, not a fall out of your standing sudden dead whilst shopping illness

In the infancy of the pandemic there was photos of dead people in the street in china surrounded by men in white suits & masks that were spread far and wide by the media :rolleyes:

That was happening around the same time that the world's leading heath bodies were telling us that the now essential masks were useless and not the wear them

He didn't say that people would be suddenly dropping dead in the streets. He said that it might take bodies piling up in the streets.



Surely you remember the case of the Italian fella who took a video of himself with his sister dead behind him in her bed. She had been there a few days and nobody would come to take the body. I think your man had been some kind of minor celebrity


The masks thing makes sense to me. And I can't quite fathom how some people think they have sussed out some kind of contradiction or scam.

McHardcore

gary550 wrote: »

People dead on the streets? It is a respiratory illness with progressively worsening symptoms, not a fall out of your standing sudden dead whilst shopping illness

I'm pretty sure "bodies piling up on the streets" is a turn of phrase and not to be taken literally.


Well, unless it's Ecuador. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ecuador-bodies-streets-guayaquil-coronavirus-covid-19/

karlitob

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you think these numbers are ok, fellow HCP?:)

Not sure where your getting that from. Between that and your last post to me - seems like you’re purposefully misinterpreting my posts or you’re not the cleverest.

Vieira82

Donald Trump wrote: »

He didn't say that people would be suddenly dropping dead in the streets. He said that it might take bodies piling up in the streets.



Surely you remember the case of the Italian fella who took a video of himself with his sister dead behind him in her bed. She had been there a few days and nobody would come to take the body. I think your man had been some kind of minor celebrity


The masks thing makes sense to me. And I can't quite fathom how some people think they have sussed out some kind of contradiction or scam.

Exactly, actually, if people cared to read WHO press releases. They informed on the 25th of January for all countries to be ready for a health emergency and this means stocking up on PPEs. Guess how many followed suit? Very few! We all thought it was a chinese problem and ignore it. Various govs had at least a full month to actually get ready for this and we all fobbed this as nothing, just like we're doing now. So let's see, I didn't expect cases to go up so quick now, so we'll see who's right in a few weeks

Charles Babbage

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Belgium health professionals as well as Germany now starting to call into question the validity of lockdown measures. Its death profile follows a similar profile to ours. Peak in Spring, deaths low now...

https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/128704/hundreds-of-medical-experts-question-belgiums-coronavirus-policy-in-2-open-letters/

It mentions:

The number of cancer diagnoses has been halved (less than 2,500 diagnoses per month in our country), which is expected to lead to a significant excess mortality.

Whenever anyone mentions cancer you know that they are promoting fake news. An increase in Covid cases has no possible benefit for cancer sufferers and anyone who implies that is does is propograting a dangerous lie. Michael McDowell, someone who shoud know better, was on the radio today on a similar tack.

And as for wife beating and the like, these people should be prosecuted, not other people allowed die to facilitate them.

tom1ie

358 idiots that want a government department that advises the government on health emergencies to be disbanded because they advised the government on a health emergency. Ffs!!

Ginger n Lemon

tom1ie wrote: »

358 idiots that want a government department that advises the government on health emergencies to be disbanded because they advised the government on a health emergency. Ffs!!

Ahhh and you are 1 of those idiots that thinks NPHET are invincible because of the very fact that they advise.

Completely disregarding the fact that they advised indoor dinning ban in Dublin while simultaneously Prof Nolan stated they have no idea where virus transmits.

Bravo.

BTW before you get all hysterical screaming and shouting of a deadly pandemic

"
At the session, Dr Michael Ryan, the WHO’s Head of Emergencies revealed that they believe roughly 10% of the world has been infected with Sars-Cov-2. This is their “best estimate”, and a huge increase over the number of officially recognised cases (around 35 million). [..]

The global population is roughly 7.8 billion people, if 10% have been infected that is 780 million cases. The global death toll currently attributed to Sars-Cov-2 infections is 1,061,539.

That’s an infection fatality rate of roughly 0.14%. Right in line with seasonal flu and the predictions of many experts from all around the world."

https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/08/who-accidentally-confirms-covid-is-no-more-dangerous-than-flu/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=918c8bc93a0491b8b1928e594678a0b1f43fafc3-1602403027-0-AXV_X25ST9ULAjw60KiLvI4iQcTP-CdpnHYqcf0cwjKr-wRFCLrz0QmRmSu8Zcn1XuK37mnziMeI3lDDi49eqj1QY3LhEUS3ed27reBgZQN9sIzNwkH-7m2MWKWVJyhZM_pjBLc47F0yYy5QQksSXDXrXCbBiwpMbzik-S_vo7OGqIY7hNv9nltcV3Rua0lvYCbTSFvyRLPruaTgJRFXDLlT_4ud93pgEHKSh8Bfa_5UyaF7NdLL8cCMbKHi8ZAngPvs-6o8VpAcS7ltmb7vCMXDozlJmXqd9bZ6v-YX3k9NNjJXnOUMwVPy48q0J7zsKP5RkjF4azd4lKg8iCUxWYnuxmAJ3cYsJdUdv7UhWiV23A3kRVwczvGvA82UaJt76g

3xh

tom1ie wrote: »

358 idiots that want a government department that advises the government on health emergencies to be disbanded because they advised the government on a health emergency. Ffs!!

Did they though?

You know NPHET is made up of more than Holohan, Glynn, de Gascun and Nolan, yes? There’s about 50 people on it.

Is it run democratically regarding votes on policy change or does Holohan have the final say? I don’t know. I suspect neither do you.

How did they agree mid week that level 3 was fine but on the Sunday, they (I’m assuming a majority as that is how you’d hope NPHET is run) agreed (so we’re told in the media) to move to level 5.

All because Tony returned and somehow saw something different in the numbers? Give over.

NPHET stopped ‘advising’ the government when the 4 lads above realised they’re household names.

Are you ok with Glynn and Holohan tweeting their guidance etc on their twitter accounts? You see no conflict of interest in that or an ability to confuse/dilute a government message? I’m of the view, NPHET should be hidden (sure, publish their names for transparency).

It was sexy at the start of all this to have a politician stand on stage with the CMO/experts. Made it look all-encompassing, like they had it under control, listening to best guidance. We’ve moved on from that now. We know more about Covid. We don’t need Holohan to say; 1000 cases, 100 hospitalisations, etc. Donnelly can do that.

Dempo1

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ahhh and you are 1 of those idiots that thinks NPHET are invincible because of the very fact that they advise.

Completely disregarding the fact that they advised indoor dinning ban in Dublin while simultaneously Prof Nolan stated they have no idea where virus transmits.

Bravo.

BTW before you get all hysterical screaming and shouting of a deadly pandemic

"
At the session, Dr Michael Ryan, the WHO’s Head of Emergencies revealed that they believe roughly 10% of the world has been infected with Sars-Cov-2. This is their “best estimate”, and a huge increase over the number of officially recognised cases (around 35 million). [..]

The global population is roughly 7.8 billion people, if 10% have been infected that is 780 million cases. The global death toll currently attributed to Sars-Cov-2 infections is 1,061,539.

That’s an infection fatality rate of roughly 0.14%. Right in line with seasonal flu and the predictions of many experts from all around the world."

https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/08/who-accidentally-confirms-covid-is-no-more-dangerous-than-flu/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=918c8bc93a0491b8b1928e594678a0b1f43fafc3-1602403027-0-AXV_X25ST9ULAjw60KiLvI4iQcTP-CdpnHYqcf0cwjKr-wRFCLrz0QmRmSu8Zcn1XuK37mnziMeI3lDDi49eqj1QY3LhEUS3ed27reBgZQN9sIzNwkH-7m2MWKWVJyhZM_pjBLc47F0yYy5QQksSXDXrXCbBiwpMbzik-S_vo7OGqIY7hNv9nltcV3Rua0lvYCbTSFvyRLPruaTgJRFXDLlT_4ud93pgEHKSh8Bfa_5UyaF7NdLL8cCMbKHi8ZAngPvs-6o8VpAcS7ltmb7vCMXDozlJmXqd9bZ6v-YX3k9NNjJXnOUMwVPy48q0J7zsKP5RkjF4azd4lKg8iCUxWYnuxmAJ3cYsJdUdv7UhWiV23A3kRVwczvGvA82UaJt76g

I think you've miss read Professor Nolans comment, Yes he stated they don't know we're the virus transmits but any venue that opporates on the basis of large social gatherings encourage the spread. Indeed Ronan Glynn a few weeks back was also careful when he did not blame Pubs or restaurants. It's a best guess scenario that I don't think unreasonable. I actually belive large retail centre's are more of an issue, shopping centres etc. No hysteria from me, just pointing out yet again NPHET advise, Government act, albeit I see Leo has had a complete turn about this morning in the indo, short sharp lockdowns needed, gosh a week is a long time in the world of hypocrisy.

Ginger n Lemon

Dempo1 wrote: »

I think you've miss read Professor Nolans comment, Yes he stated they don't know we're the virus transmits but any venue that opporates on the basis of large social gatherings encourage the spread. Indeed Ronan Glynn a few weeks back was also careful when he did not blame Pubs or restaurants. It's a best guess scenario that I don't think unreasonable. I actually belive large retail centre's are more of an issue, shopping centres etc. No hysteria from me, just pointing out yet again NPHET advise, Government act, albeit I see Leo has had a complete turn about this morning in the indo, short sharp lockdowns needed, gosh a week is a long time in the world of hypocrisy.

So after 7 months of pandemic we still "guess"?

You are not backing up your argument of "lets keep NPHET" very well.

Also - do you mind telling us if you work in a Dublin restaurant?

Lately I've noticed people are so eager to post "those restrictions are reasonable" "those restrictions probably will save lives" when talking about 50,000 + losing their jobs, these tend to be WFH keyboard warriors..... surely you arent one of them?

Dempo1

3xh wrote: »

Did they though?

You know NPHET is made up of more than Holohan, Glynn, de Gascun and Nolan, yes? There’s about 50 people on it.

Is it run democratically regarding votes on policy change or does Holohan have the final say? I don’t know. I suspect neither do you.

How did they agree mid week that level 3 was fine but on the Sunday, they (I’m assuming a majority as that is how you’d hope NPHET is run) agreed (so we’re told in the media) to move to level 5.

All because Tony returned and somehow saw something different in the numbers? Give over.

NPHET stopped ‘advising’ the government when the 4 lads above realised they’re household names.

Are you ok with Glynn and Holohan tweeting their guidance etc on their twitter accounts? You see no conflict of interest in that or an ability to confuse/dilute a government message? I’m of the view, NPHET should be hidden (sure, publish their names for transparency).

It was sexy at the start of all this to have a politician stand on stage with the CMO/experts. Made it look all-encompassing, like they had it under control, listening to best guidance. We’ve moved on from that now. We know more about Covid. We don’t need Holohan to say; 1000 cases, 100 hospitalisations, etc. Donnelly can do that.

I agree and it's seem to be lost on some that Holohan returned 2 days after the initial advice from NPHET, this has and continues to be an evolving crisis, much can and has changed in two days, and yes Holohan is only one of nearly 50 experts that include public servants and direct HSE employees. You've only got to look at the numbers over a two day period to realise something wrong. Too much is made of Holohans sudden return and alleged solo run. He happens to be the chair and spokesperson for a group of 50 or so.

Dempo1

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So after 7 months of pandemic we still "guess"?

You are not backing up your argument of "lets keep NPHET" very well.

Also - do you mind telling us if you work in a Dublin restaurant?

Lately I've noticed people are so eager to post "those restrictions are reasonable" "those restrictions probably will save lives" when talking about 50,000 + losing their jobs, these tend to be WFH keyboard warriors..... surely you arent one of them?

It is to a large degree guess work, focasting etc and it seems to me, unpalatable as it may be, NPHET have been right to date, in particular Professor Nolans modelling reporting. I've never ever heard of anything Medical that is 100% certain, gosh if it was, wouldn't it be a marvellous world.

Sorry, no, I actually live in Laois, was actually in the hospitality sector for over 30 years, mainly abroad but gave that up about 10 years ago, but am in a sector affected by this crisis.

Ginger n Lemon

Dempo1 wrote: »

It is to a large degree guess work, focasting etc and it seems to me, unpalatable as it may be, NPHET have been right to date, in particular Professor Nolans modelling reporting. I've never ever heard of anything Medical that is 100% certain, gosh if it was, wouldn't it be a marvellous world.

Well its guess work that is NOT working.

has level 3 worked out in Dublin? Donegal?

Sure lets keep NPHET, their "recommendations" along with extra indoor dinning ban have clearly "worked" in those counties :rolleyes:


And you are correct, nothing medical is 100% certain. So I really hope our strategy is not based on finding a vaccine... as last time I checked there was a vaccine against flu and yet 500,000 + still die per year off it .

Beasty

tom1ie wrote: »

358 idiots that want a government department that advises the government on health emergencies to be disbanded because they advised the government on a health emergency. Ffs!!

Abusing 358 posters in a single post

Now threadbanned

Vieira82

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So after 7 months of pandemic we still "guess"?

You are not backing up your argument of "lets keep NPHET" very well.

Also - do you mind telling us if you work in a Dublin restaurant?

Lately I've noticed people are so eager to post "those restrictions are reasonable" "those restrictions probably will save lives" when talking about 50,000 + losing their jobs, these tend to be WFH keyboard warriors..... surely you arent one of them?

How many years it took for AIDS to stop being seen and treated as a homosexuals' disease? How many years it took to clearly understand how it's transmitted ending the stigma it was with HIV positive patients?

7 months is an incredible short time to understand a virus. Even more A Virus. This meaning that it's small genetic code is more prone to many mutations specially when it's spread is not put in check. It could happen it becomes more infectious, more deadly or innocuous like the Spanish Flu. We simply cannot guess where it will go and which strain gets prevalence and even less epidemiologists in 7 months of constant exponential growth.

The more it spreads, the more chances of mutations, the more chances of unpredictability.

Dempo1

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well its guess work that is NOT working.

has level 3 worked out in Dublin? Donegal?

Sure lets keep NPHET, their "recommendations" along with extra indoor dinning ban have clearly "worked" in those counties :rolleyes:


And you are correct, nothing medical is 100% certain. So I really hope our strategy is not based on finding a vaccine... as last time I checked there was a vaccine against flu and yet 500,000 + still die per year off it .

Clearly level 3 hasn't worked in Dublin or Donegal and that's actually the point? Actually in my own county (Laois) albeit I'm originally from Dublin, I saw the farce of level 3 first hand, it was in essence level 2 with occasional checkpoints. The only time anything actually worked was full lockdown. I hate this idea, believe me, but I can only go on what I've seen.

Indeed if you think about it, Dublin on level 3 for four weeks and yet checkpoints only really introduced last Wednesday?? Bit of a joke really.

Ginger n Lemon

Dempo1 wrote: »

Clearly level 3 hasn't worked in Dublin or Donegal and that's actually the point? Actually in my own county (Laois) albeit I'm originally from Dublin, I saw the farce of level 3 first hand, it was in essence level 2 with occasional checkpoints. The only time anything actually worked was full lockdown. I hate this idea, believe me, but I can only go on what I've seen.

Indeed if you think about it, Dublin on level 3 for four weeks and yet checkpoints only really introduced last Wednesday?? Bit of a joke really.

I assume you are asking me whats the point?

I am stating that NPHET made a recommendation that government followed, that actually achieved growth of new cases in Dublin and Donegal.

With Dublin reporting 241 cases alone yesterday.

Am I barking mad here or is it quite obvious that not only what NPHET recommend is not working, its actually doing the opposite.

You know, there is a chance that virus spreads in the households and indeed not restaurants or pubs. In light of this, keeping restaurants opened would actually reduce the spread.

MadYaker

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I assume you are asking me whats the point?

I am stating that NPHET made a recommendation that government followed, that actually achieved growth of new cases in Dublin and Donegal.

With Dublin reporting 241 cases alone yesterday.

Am I barking mad here or is it quite obvious that not only what NPHET recommend is not working, its actually doing the opposite.

You know, there is a chance that virus spreads in the households and indeed not restaurants or pubs. In light of this, keeping restaurants opened would actually reduce the spread.

You don't think it might be because people are ignoring the advice? You seem to be assuming that everyone is following the advice and therefore it's the advice that's the problem. That isn't the most logical explanation as we've seen plenty of evidence that many people are ignoring the advice.

There is no chance that the virus spreads in homes and not in restaurants and pubs. Why would the virus behave differently in either setting? It will spread anywhere that people are close to each other. Restaurant, pub, school, house it doesn't matter.