Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

kowloonkev

dj jarvis wrote: »

you understand how a virus works yea?
It does not care about your rent, or a publicans livelihood, or Van Morrison or anyone, social distance, hand hygiene and face masks, if a event, a social event, gaa or athletic event needs to be canceled then so be it, you really dont understand the world you now live in. this is reality for the next 3/4 years , enjoy !!

It's actually amazing that there are still so many 'wet pub' owners around the place sitting on their hands expecting the world to go back to normal. I reckon if they're so blind and unwilling to adapt or try something else with their premises then their business was probably doing badly to begin with and perhaps the complaining is just a bit of a screen/lobby to keep emergency payments coming in.

Richard Hillman

Donald Trump wrote: »

NPHET have no actual direct power. They issue advice to the government who decide how to interpret and act on that advice.

Here's how a NPHET meeting could go

Ronan Glynn: Hi Meehole, I see your polls are a bit ****. Unlucky
Micheal Martin: Win some, you lose some. Anyway what do need?
RG: Close the pubs. And restaurants too how those sham pubs can't open either
MM: err no.
RG: OK, well the whole board have decided we are going to resign en masse and the blame you for it. That's not going to go well for you in the media. You do know my wife works for RTE. I would imagine FF will probably give you the heave too
MM: the whole country, yes
RG: Nah just Dublin. We'll move in on the rest in a few weeks. We can blame Dubliners for leaving the county. The restrict everyones movements
MM: Anything else your excellency?
RG: lick my balls.

lapua20grain

kowloonkev wrote: »

It's actually amazing that there are still so many 'wet pub' owners around the place sitting on their hands expecting the world to go back to normal. I reckon if they're so blind and unwilling to adapt or try something else with their premises then their business was probably doing badly to begin with and perhaps the complaining is just a bit of a screen/lobby to keep emergency payments coming in.

This is what amazed me, why didn't they go in with a local coffee shop or supplier and have some type of customer coming in diversify in to coffee tea sandwiches etc, I know it doesn't work for everyone but there could have been a lot of them open albeit at a smaller scale but with revenue coming through.

com1

lapua20grain wrote: »

This is what amazed me, why didn't they go in with a local coffee shop or supplier and have some type of customer coming in diversify in to coffee tea sandwiches etc, I know it doesn't work for everyone but there could have been a lot of them open albeit at a smaller scale but with revenue coming through.

Erm, maybe because they are not allowed to open their premises. You know because they are a pub, with a licence

Dempo1

lapua20grain wrote: »

This is what amazed me, why didn't they go in with a local coffee shop or supplier and have some type of customer coming in diversify in to coffee tea sandwiches etc, I know it doesn't work for everyone but there could have been a lot of them open albeit at a smaller scale but with revenue coming through.

Very fair points and I know a few that have. But there is something becoming abundantly clear, the entire wet pub and to an extent dining in business model is becoming precarious to say the least. There's a harsh and sad reality beckoning namely at a minimum its going to be a year or a vaccine discovery before any notion of a return to business as normal returns. I can't see too many surviving till Christmas, let alone mid 2021.

kowloonkev

com1 wrote: »

Erm, maybe because they are not allowed to open their premises. You know because they are a pub, with a licence

So why have other pubs been allowed to change to serving food? Did they lose their licence or change it or what? Is there a law that if you have a beer licence then your property can only be a pub forever and a day?

Dempo1

com1 wrote: »

Erm, maybe because they are not allowed to open their premises. You know because they are a pub, with a licence

3 pubs in my direct rural locality never, ever served food, one operating since 1920, all now serving food, 2 with the help of a local chipper/coffee shop, one with the help of a freezer & Tesco (and I am not kidding). Not a single one has altered their licenses since March.

kippy

douglashyde wrote: »

Ronan Glynn - seems like a nice lad. Studied Physio, decided to do medicine after. Focused on Oncology (cancer) . Married an RTE presenter, a good quality civil servant in the HSE. He knows how to get up the ladder at the HSE. Seems do be doing the what he thinks is right.

Anders Tegnell - Doctor who specialised in infectious diseases all his life - hands on experience with Ebola, Swine Flu and countless infectious diseases. He's Sweden's chief epidemiologist and is calling the shots nationally. More senior role than Dr. Glynn by all counts.

While Sweden has seen slightly elevated death rates vs. their closest neighbours like Norway, their liberties and livelihoods haven't been impacted (directly) and are doing better (as times passes). Like all other countries, those dying come from in the elderly (approx 83 mean age) with comorbidity in practically all cases.

Swedish advice: Maintain hygiene, work from home, practice social distancing when you can, while those over 70 and those high risk should elf-isolate as a precaution.

Irish advice: 5 level system, with .25 increments. decided by an arbitrary list of reasons we will determine along the way.

If you leave Dublin (we advice you don't, but it's not enforceable) then that's OK, but only it it's from these green list countries. However next month we will have a new system. Also you can have 50 in a room for x, 6 in a room for y but only if Charlie knows Nora.

We always worried this virus would evolve into a worse strain. Well it has.... it's now an Irish public sector strain of COVID-19.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thejournal.ie/here-is-who-sits-on-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-and-what-they-do-5086703-Apr2020/%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjLq7K_1PTrAhVRuHEKHbvaB7oQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0JliMM-ruRI3XBroBJ8EJ8&ampcf=1
Listing of NPHET members and their backgrounds there. Hardly a Hodge podge of amateur keyboard warriors.
That's not all that Sweden have done....although there seem to be plenty like you that think it is.

Only an idiot would suggest that things would be grand here if the restrictions we are seeing weren't in place. The evidence of the last few months shows that loosening restrictions causes a rise in cases. The facts show that if nothing changes numbers will be 1000 a day in October and that has major and significant knock on effects.
So either enough of us aren't doing the basics or the basics aren't enough.

zerosugarbuzz

kippy wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thejournal.ie/here-is-who-sits-on-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-and-what-they-do-5086703-Apr2020/%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjLq7K_1PTrAhVRuHEKHbvaB7oQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0JliMM-ruRI3XBroBJ8EJ8&ampcf=1
Listing of NPHET members and their backgrounds there. Hardly a Hodge podge of amateur keyboard warriors.
That's not all that Sweden have done....although there seem to be plenty like you that think it is.

Only an idiot would suggest that things would be grand here if the restrictions we are seeing weren't in place. The evidence of the last few months shows that loosening restrictions causes a rise in cases. The facts show that if nothing changes numbers will be 1000 a day in October and that has major and significant knock on effects.
So either enough of us aren't doing the basics or the basics aren't enough.

The lockdowns are not going to work anymore. Cases will continue to rise, flu is coming, hospitals will be overwhelmed, EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT HAVE HAS SIX MONTHS TO SORT THIS OUT. On top of all this the government are causing an economic Armageddon with all these lockdowns. At this stage I can see nothing but implosion of the country coming our way. It ain’t going to be pretty folks.

kippy

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

The lockdowns are not going to work anymore. Cases will continue to rise, flu is coming, hospitals will be overwhelmed, EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT HAVE HAS SIX MONTHS TO SORT THIS OUT. On top of all this the government are causing an economic Armageddon with all these lockdowns. At this stage I can see nothing but implosion of the country coming our way. It ain’t going to be pretty folks.

The only reason restrictions don't/work is because too many people don't/won't follow them.

Hubertj

NPHET has lost credibility. Policy and systems have failed. Nolan on twitter saying the data they have is essentially useless. Unable to effectively communicate. Utter shambles.

Hubertj

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

The lockdowns are not going to work anymore. Cases will continue to rise, flu is coming, hospitals will be overwhelmed, EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT HAVE HAS SIX MONTHS TO SORT THIS OUT. On top of all this the government are causing an economic Armageddon with all these lockdowns. At this stage I can see nothing but implosion of the country coming our way. It ain’t going to be pretty folks.

I would say it is more dept of health/hse/NPHET has made a mess of it. Government just writes cheques

kippy

Hubertj wrote: »

NPHET has lost credibility. Policy and systems have failed. Nolan on twitter saying the data they have is essentially useless. Unable to effectively communicate. Utter shambles.

Too many people have lost patience, for one reason or another.
The virus hasn't changed - the same things will work to suppress it, if enough people follow the guidelines.
This was always the danger - once the initial few months had passed and no vaccine was on the way.

In fairness putting in place the restrictions in March/April was the easy thing.

zerosugarbuzz

kippy wrote: »

The only reason restrictions don't/work is because too many people don't/won't follow them.

Said like a public servant whose livelihood had not bee effected! Many many people are not so lucky and I don’t thing you have either the imagination or the interest in looking at the impact these restrictions have on them.

PowerToWait

Hubertj wrote: »

NPHET has lost credibility. Policy and systems have failed. Nolan on twitter saying the data they have is essentially useless. Unable to effectively communicate. Utter shambles.

The messages are communicated very clearly. It’s people not understanding the message is the problem.
those that aren’t simply stupid, are feigning confusion to disregard the message.

Irish people will blame everyone else, but at the end of the day, if you were more like Swedish people, you would be in a much better place.

kippy

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Said like a public servant whose livelihood had not bee effected! Many many people are not so lucky and I don’t thing you have either the imagination or the interest in looking at the impact these restrictions have on them.

I know exactly the impact these restrictions have however people need to realise that further restrictions get put in place because the current ones aren't having an impact on the numbers of people getting the virus, generally because not enough people are following them.

It's vicious circle.

I see this impact in my own home and those near to me.

"The only reason restrictions don't/work is because too many people don't/won't follow them."

What's been happening the past few months is an attempt to get as many people back to work/business as possible without having an adverse effect on numbers - hence the more complext and tweaked lists of restrictions, however on current projections the numbers are going up too fast - further restrictions have to be put in place.

PowerToWait

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Said like a public servant whose livelihood had not bee effected! Many many people are not so lucky and I don’t thing you have either the imagination or the interest in looking at the impact these restrictions have on them.

If you think it’s bad now, you won’t like it in 6 months.

There are reasons why they’re imposing these restrictions. None of the reasons have any basis in vengeance, punishment, malice.

If the restrictions are ignored the entire situation gets much worse. The tunnel will be much darker, much longer.

Heroditas

dj jarvis wrote: »

you understand how a virus works yea?
It does not care about your rent, or a publicans livelihood, or Van Morrison or anyone, social distance, hand hygiene and face masks, if a event, a social event, gaa or athletic event needs to be canceled then so be it, you really dont understand the world you now live in. this is reality for the next 3/4 years , enjoy !!

There's a lot of people who were struggling to make ends meet even before the pandemic hit. Many more now are struggling to get by. I'm lucky in that I haven't been affected by the economic downturn but if I was, I'd take my chances with Covid if it meant I was able to continue scratching a living and providing for my family. As callous as it sounds, I'd be saying "to hell with everyone else, my family is my priority"

lapua20grain

com1 wrote: »

Erm, maybe because they are not allowed to open their premises. You know because they are a pub, with a licence

Erm maybe they can serve teas and coffees instead of beer that can be done you know.

kippy

Heroditas wrote: »

There's a lot of people who were struggling to make ends meet even before the pandemic hit. Many more now are struggling to get by. I'm lucky in that I haven't been affected by the economic downturn but if I was, I'd take my chances with Covid if it meant I was able to continue scratching a living and providing for my family. As callous as it sounds, I'd be saying "to hell with everyone else, my family is my priority"

If your family is your priority, you should be seeking as many state supports that are in place and trying to work within the restrictions.
If everyone takes the attitude - feck covid, I am doing my own thing (as many people are/have), it's gonna be a far worse outcome for families everywhere.

Heroditas

kippy wrote: »

If your family is your priority, you should be seeking as many state supports that are in place and trying to work within the restrictions.
If everyone takes the attitude - feck covid, I am doing my own thing (as many people are/have), it's gonna be a far worse outcome for families everywhere.

Again, I'm not affected but for those whose mortgage breaks are now over and the PUP payment ending, I have a huge amount of sympathy for.
I'm not necessarily condoning it but I understand the sentiment

DangerScouse

Think they are doing a wonderful job tbh.

DangerScouse

PowerToWait wrote: »

The messages are communicated very clearly. It’s people not understanding the message is the problem.
those that aren’t simply stupid, are feigning confusion to disregard the message.

Irish people will blame everyone else, but at the end of the day, if you were more like Swedish people, you would be in a much better place.

Absolutely. Unfortunately Irish people have a very much "I'm alright Jack" attitude and love to blame everyone but themselves.

pjohnson

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Said like a public servant whose livelihood had not bee effected! Many many people are not so lucky and I don’t thing you have either the imagination or the interest in looking at the impact these restrictions have on them.

And if those are the eejits protesting/partying they have no right to complain as its their own actions that are causing the rising numbers, which cause the increase in restrictions, which cause the "impact on them".

Patrick2010

DangerScouse wrote: »

Think they are doing a wonderful job tbh.

I could do the same job. Just think of as many restrictions you can and propose them to the government. When challenged about the economic damage they cause just say that’s not my brief.

is_that_so

Patrick2010 wrote: »

I could do the same job. Just think of as many restrictions you can and propose them to the government. When challenged about the economic damage they cause just say that’s not my brief.

It's not one person. NPHET has about 50 members, dissenting voices and all.

DangerScouse

Patrick2010 wrote: »

I could do the same job. Just think of as many restrictions you can and propose them to the government. When challenged about the economic damage they cause just say that’s not my brief.

Eh it's not their brief.

is_that_so

Heroditas wrote: »

There's a lot of people who were struggling to make ends meet even before the pandemic hit. Many more now are struggling to get by. I'm lucky in that I haven't been affected by the economic downturn but if I was, I'd take my chances with Covid if it meant I was able to continue scratching a living and providing for my family. As callous as it sounds, I'd be saying "to hell with everyone else, my family is my priority"

No reason one cannot scratch out that living with the right level of precautions. As others have said, the State is there to bail people out if it can't happen.

Patrick2010

pjohnson wrote: »

And if those are the eejits protesting/partying they have no right to complain as its their own actions that are causing the rising numbers, which cause the increase in restrictions, which cause the "impact on them".

So the rise in cases is due to house parties appears to be the current mantra, nothing at all to do with the schools reopening? Can someone explain how locking down Dublin and putting 1000s out of work will stop these house parties?

Hellrazer

Ive said it earlier in the thread that NPHET haven't a clue what they are doing.
This lockdown of Dublin and blaming it on the pubs / restaurant industry doesn't make any sense.
I don't know one single person that contracted covid from a restaurant or pub.

Howvere theres been 13 out breaks in schools. Here in Kildare yesterday we had a school close. My daughters school has a possible case which god knows how many people its going to spread to.

The decision to keep schools open at all costs which is what is driving these restrictions is whats going to destroy this country.

That decision needs a rethink.