Aoibheann Ni Shuilleabhain Harassment Story

Thomas Hudson

Eric Cartman wrote: »

a massive issue in academia, Id bet he considers himself a male feminist

]

He's a self confessed 'nice guy' no doubt.

Yurt2

Wombatman wrote: »

Not working at the Dublin Institute of Advanced Studies anyway.

https://www.dias.ie/2020/09/06/dias-statement-in-relation-to-professor-hans-benjamin-braun/

This person notes on Twitter that he was listed as a research associate on the DIAS website until 24 hours or so ago.

Speculative, but he has it that it may be the case that UCD farmed him out to the DIAS while keeping him on the UCD payroll.

https://mobile.twitter.com/eastcoast636/status/1302695979678924802

tobefrank321

She has a strong case for financial compensation from UCD from what I can see.

The negligence appears to be off the scale.

But I suspect she'd prefer to draw a line under the whole thing.

Seems to be virtually impossible to sack a professor.

golfball37

NUIG were up to their necks in not treating female employees seriously for years too recently. Is it a problem across the third level sector?

tinpib

The thing is you never know how far somebody like that dude will go, he has always gone crossed the line into criminal action. Ever since Mark Chapman killed John Lennon that type of thing remains a possibility now.

Also to show how far it can go, check out this about BBC's Emily Maitlis, some similarities there:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/03/emily-maitlis-stalker-edward-vines-jailed-breach-restraining-order

Donald Trump

Faint heart never won fair maiden. Sure he was only being romantic.

What's the world coming to atall atall when a dirty oul' fella can't harass and stalk a young wan.




(Serious answer is to go to the guards as soon as something like this kicks off)

Donald Trump

tinpib wrote: »

The thing is you never know how far somebody like that dude will go

Well we know he'd go as far as Cork anyways.



Who in their right mind would go to Cork?

MrStuffins

Donald Trump wrote: »

(Serious answer is to go to the guards as soon as something like this kicks off)

She did everything correctly. It was a workplace harassment issue, she brought it to the attention of HR.

It escalated, she went to the guards.

Luckily for her he stopped at just being a weirdo!

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well we know he'd go as far as Cork anyways.



Who in their right mind would go to Cork?

This is the scariest part of the whole thing. What a deranged man!

Donald Trump

MrStuffins wrote: »

She did everything correctly. It was a workplace harassment issue, she brought it to the attention of HR.

It escalated, she went to the guards.

Luckily for her he stopped at just being a weirdo!

I don't know. It can be difficult to judge these things. These things are unfortunately subjective.



I was on the bus, I overhear a young lady talking about wishing to find a romantic fella. So I get off at her stop, follow her at a distance to her house to find out where she lives and go back the next day with a big bunch of flowers and try to serenade her from outside the window and the next thing you know I have a barring order against me. You just can't win

mariaalice

It's interesting that even posters who know it was a serious and frightening situation and that she was harassed feel the need to qualify their support for her with humor?

Donald Trump

mariaalice wrote: »

It's interesting that even posters who know it was a serious and fighting situation and that she was harassed feel the need to qualify their support for her with humor?

Who are we making fun of though?


Most people who do those kinds of things would snap out of their delusions more quickly if people laughed at their pathetic-ness.

Mongfinder General

Because employment law is so weighted in favour of the employee nowadays, employers know that a trip to the Workplace Relations Commission will cost them big. This is no excuse not to act to protect a staff member if they have reported a serious issue. I have personal experience of reporting my own boss some years ago (Not harassment more being a complete bitch). HR basically told me I was the problem. If you raise a problem in the workplace in this country, you become the problem.
HR and senior management don't want to know. They want solutions, not problems. They do not want to make any real decisions or take any action because individual accountability at upper levels doesn't exist in this country.
In this ladies case, she played a blinder and had shown real nerve. And don't stop with a newspaper article. She knows who fcuked her over.

Eric Cartman

golfball37 wrote: »

NUIG were up to their necks in not treating female employees seriously for years too recently. Is it a problem across the third level sector?

absolutely. Academia is rife with it. Its the same structure as a school only the women are adults so impressionable, vulnerable, as a professor / department head you have power over their progression or grades. Like childrens television its the exact place somebody sick could hide in plain sight and get away with abuse for years if not decades.

It helps with the male feminist / #metoo stuff going on, those voices can shout the loudest and cover their tracks for a long time, also gives them access to a lot of these vulnerable women going to the meetings etc.. and how hard it is to have them sacked.

tobefrank321

There should be some sort of 3 strikes and your out to workplace harrassment.

Verbal warning first, then a written warning. If it happens 3 times, you're out on your ear.

The policies appear to have been lax in UCD so he was able to continue with this for years with no repercussions for him.

TheValeyard

Holy fcuk it sounds like something out of Cape Fear. That poor woman. How she stayed sane in all that ill never know.

chicorytip

The level of harassment involved here is on the lower level of the scale. Many women in the workplace experience far worse including sexual assault.

Mrsmum

In a strange way and not to minimise the fear of it for a second but he almost did her a favour by following her to Cork. Because that was so out of all order that it gave her complaint absolute legitimacy but he was blackguarding her well before that in a way that is often capable of being brushed off as just him being a bit of a nuisance. Unfortunately it can be hard to be taken seriously that someone won't leave you alone without such an off the wall action on his part.

Yurt2

chicorytip wrote: »

The level of harassment involved here is on the lower level of the scale. Many women in the workplace experience far worse including sexual assault.

The psychological element to this is not to be underestimated. If I was female, and some creep from work tracked me down to a hotel at the other end of the country, I'd be reaching for the nearest weapon when he showed up.

Stalking like that is the actions of a man that is capable of dark things IMO.

walshb

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Very pretentious person imo, and now making it public has obviously been done to promote her name even more.

I have to disagree here..

I am usually skeptical in these cases, but more so with these trashy z listers and their embellished tales of nonsense, and their incessant need to be in the spotlight..

This lady is not at all like this, and nor is her story..

Errashareesh

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Very pretentious person imo, and now making it public has obviously been done to promote her name even more.

Yeah and shur she would be delighted with it if he were hot.

Wait til she's an auld one and not so pretty/trim too - she'll be longing for a bit of "harassment" then!

JP Liz V1

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

From the linked article in OP;

At one point, Braun travelled across the country and turned up at a hotel in Cork demanding to see her after Ní Shúilleabháin had mentioned on social media that she was on a weekend break with female friends. The professor was removed by gardaí from the hotel twice, on two consecutive days, and Ní Shúilleabháin received a Garda escort out of Co Cork.

:eek: what a creep should be in prison

ThewhiteJesus

chicorytip wrote: »

The level of harassment involved here is on the lower level of the scale. Many women in the workplace experience far worse including sexual assault.

Many, many men experience workplace bullying from cliques of women too.
It's not right no matter what the sex.

Errashareesh

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Many, many men experience workplace bullying from cliques of women too.
It's not right no matter what the sex.

Good thing you posted that - what with all the people saying men are never harassed, or that if they are, it's grand.

walshb

chicorytip wrote: »

The level of harassment involved here is on the lower level of the scale. Many women in the workplace experience far worse including sexual assault.

What?

Lower level? it went in for two years. She was genuinely fearful..

What would mid and higher level be like, so?

If what she experienced is lower level, then I’d hate to think what higher level is like..

LiquidZeb

hayoc wrote: »

Whats the Rose of Tralee got to do with any of this?

The Rose of Tralee encourages this sort of behaviour. Having young girls dress up and put on a show to appease the dirty old men judging it. I've always disliked the competition for it's shallow nature and this only proves that point.

Thomas Hudson

LiquidZeb wrote: »

The Rose of Tralee encourages this sort of behaviour. Having young girls dress up and put on a show to appease the dirty old men judging it. I've always disliked the competition for it's shallow nature and this only proves that point.

300lb jealous feminist detected.

MrStuffins

chicorytip wrote: »

The level of harassment involved here is on the lower level of the scale.

The chap stalked her social media page, saw that she was on a girls trip across the other side of the country, drove all the way there and rocked up to the hotel, knowing she wanted nothing to do with him.

After he was removed by police, he returned the next day. So fearful was she that the Garda had to escort her not from the premises, but from the county!

If you think this is trivial, you need to take a long hard look a yourself!

LiquidZeb

Thomas Hudson wrote: »

300lb jealous feminist detected.

I'm not a feminist and I'm not 300lb mate. If that's the best counterargument you can make I doubt we'll ever have to worry about you harassing anyone while working as a college professor.

chicorytip

walshb wrote: »

What?

Lower level? it went in for two years. She was genuinely fearful..

What would mid and higher level be like, so?

If what she experienced is lower level, then I’d hate to think what higher level is like..

Well, consistent sexual or physical assault, inappropriate comments or other lewd sort of behaviour, stalking, rumour mongering or outright bullying conducted over a prolonged period.
If the victim in this incident were, say, a cleaner rather than a fairly high profile academic we would not be having this discussion because the matter would not get any publicity.

Thomas Hudson

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I'm not a feminist and I'm not 300lb mate. If that's the best counterargument you can make I doubt we'll ever have to worry about you harassing anyone while working as a college professor.

There is no argument friend because women are happy to enter the Rose of Tralee and they don't need 'nice guys' like you to protect them.

MrStuffins

LiquidZeb wrote: »

The Rose of Tralee encourages this sort of behaviour. Having young girls dress up and put on a show to appease the dirty old men judging it. I've always disliked the competition for it's shallow nature and this only proves that point.

I don't disagree with you. The Rose of Tralee is a completely outdated heap of muck, but this story and the man's actions have nothing to do with the Rose of Tralee.

KaneToad

LiquidZeb wrote: »

The Rose of Tralee encourages this sort of behaviour. Having young girls dress up and put on a show to appease the dirty old men judging it. I've always disliked the competition for it's shallow nature and this only proves that point.

I partly agree with you. The Rose of Tralee is an embarrassment. Despite their efforts to "modernise" it, it's still a lovely girls competition. Linehan & Matthews were spot on.

paw patrol

LiquidZeb wrote: »

The Rose of Tralee encourages this sort of behaviour. Having young girls dress up and put on a show to appease the dirty old men judging it. I've always disliked the competition for it's shallow nature and this only proves that point.

wtf are you talking about.Did you do any research into your rant?
the 2019 panel was 2 women and 2 men.
the men were the chair of kerry council (assume that's a traditional role) and the sponsor.
other years have been similar split

Although complete cringe the Rose of Tralee is anything but a show for the dirty auld lads, it's kinda the complete opposite

LiquidZeb

MrStuffins wrote: »

I don't disagree with you. The Rose of Tralee is a completely outdated heap of muck, but this story and the man's actions have nothing to do with the Rose of Tralee.

What I meant was that stuff like the rose of Tralee encourages lads to view women as bits of skirt to be salivated over. I can see why I went on a tangent though but thanks for making your argument in a mature manner without resorting to alt right speak like some.

walshb

chicorytip wrote: »

Well, consistent sexual or physical assault, inappropriate comments or other lewd sort of behaviour, stalking, rumour mongering or outright bullying conducted over a prolonged period.
If the victim in this incident were, say, a cleaner rather than a fairly high profile academic we would not be having this discussion because the matter would not get any publicity.

Do you think what she went through is no big deal?

Seems pretty tough in my view..

She must have been very frightened..

Two years is a long long time to have a person making you feel uncomfortable and scared..

Thomas Hudson

LiquidZeb wrote: »

What I meant was that stuff like the rose of Tralee encourages lads to view women as bits of skirt to be salivated over. I can see why I went on a tangent though but thanks for making your argument in a mature manner without resorting to alt right speak like some.

100% nice guy.

LiquidZeb

paw patrol wrote: »

wtf are you talking about.Did you do any research into your rant?
the 2019 panel was 2 women and 2 men.
the men were the chair of kerry council (assume that's a traditional role) and the sponsor.
other years have been similar split

Although complete cringe the Rose of Tralee is anything but a show for the dirty auld lads, it's kinda the complete opposite

Why isn't there a men's version of the rose of Tralee then or a male Mary from dungloe?

LiquidZeb

Thomas Hudson wrote: »

100% nice guy.

Thanks I know I'm absolutely delightful

MrStuffins

chicorytip wrote: »

If the victim in this incident were, say, a cleaner rather than a fairly high profile academic we would not be having this discussion because the matter would not get any publicity.

What's your actual point here?

It comes across like what you're saying is what happened to her was ok because:

A) Other people suffer worse

Because other people who suffer what she suffered (or worse) don't have as good a job as her.

Is this what you're saying?

Thomas Hudson

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Thanks I know I'm absolutely delightful

In your rush to 'protect' women you're actually extremely patronising towards them.

strandroad

walshb wrote: »

What?

Lower level? it went in for two years. She was genuinely fearful..

What would mid and higher level be like, so?

If what she experienced is lower level, then I’d hate to think what higher level is like..

Showing up at her house or physically touching her would be another level. Not diminishing what she went through of course but there is a lot more that could have happened, not that the institutions care. My friend was stalked by a fellow student she never willingly spoke to. Apart from accosting and propositioning her he would sneak up on her in the corridor when there were leaving lecture halls just to stroke her back and jump away, or he would make friends and blag his way into their student accommodation to put letters through her door and sit in the lobby for her to see him there early morning and late evening. He was doing it for months but she was completely ignored and told to sort it out between themselves so she endured until she graduated, she had to recruit a few friends to help her get to and from places too.

LiquidZeb

Thomas Hudson wrote: »

In your rush to 'protect' women you're actually extremely patronising towards them.

Whilst making the assumption that I was a jealous 300lb feminist is the height of respect.

MrStuffins

strandroad wrote: »

Not diminishing what she went through of course but there is a lot more that could have happened.

But that's the thing. Saying "Well, at least she wasn't sexually assaulted" IS diminishing what she went through.

Her account of what happened sounds very very like the beginning of a story that could have ended very tragically had she not gone to the police. That should not be used as an excuse to diminish her experience.

ThewhiteJesus

Thomas Hudson wrote: »

In your rush to 'protect' women you're actually extremely patronising towards them.

mmmm 26 posts in and already baiting other posters pointlessly.

LiquidZeb

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

mmmm 26 posts in and already baiting other posters pointlessly.

Must be a slow day on 4chan so he slithered on here for a lark.

strandroad

MrStuffins wrote: »

But that's the thing. Saying "Well, at least she wasn't sexually assaulted" IS diminishing what she went through.

Her account of what happened sounds very very like the beginning of a story that could have ended very tragically had she not gone to the police. That should not be used as an excuse to diminish her experience.

Oh of course. What I meant is that her experience was institutionally ignored and so are others even if they are further on the scale. I witnessed how terrifying it was for my friend and how helpless she was.

Charles Babbage

chicorytip wrote: »

Well, consistent sexual or physical assault, inappropriate comments or other lewd sort of behaviour, stalking, rumour mongering or outright bullying conducted over a prolonged period.
If the victim in this incident were, say, a cleaner rather than a fairly high profile academic we would not be having this discussion because the matter would not get any publicity.

There is some truth in this. Because of her profile Ní Shúilleabháin was not in the most vulnerable position. Normally harassment or abuse is carefully directed at vulnerable people, while avoiding anyone who might stand up to the harasser, which is why these characters get away with it for so long. However, it is also notable that even with the prospect of this adverse publicity UCD did not bother acting.

Thomas Hudson

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Must be a slow day on 4chan so he slithered on here for a lark.

Easy lad, it's just banter.

micosoft

Errashareesh wrote: »

Yeah and shur she would be delighted with it if he were hot.

Wait til she's an auld one and not so pretty/trim too - she'll be longing for a bit of "harassment" then!

No. No she wouldn't. Rise of incel point of view on boards is a bit worrying tbh.

An Ri rua

I'm just surprised that society has gone so soft that there weren't numerous acquaintances and friends, or friends of friends, who would hear of the awful torture she was going through, know of where it happened in their own family or circle but they were too young to remedy it, and simply get on with it and resolve the problem.
People are far too namby pamby these days. Surely someone could have befriended him and taken him for a pint up the Dublin Mountains for a chat? The fauna, the heather,the bogholes, the open space, sure it would clear his head wonderfully and then back for a pint to copper fasten the understanding.

No, no, I'm not suggesting violence. Sure that's reprehensible.