British to Renege of NI Protocol?

steddyeddy

blanch152 wrote: »

A pretty accurate description of the activities of the PIRA.

Both the IRA and the security forces actually. The description covers the activities of both.

Fortunately we had the Good Friday agreement which put an end to all of that.

Unfortunately we are next to a landmass who consists of people so ignorant that they're voting to leave the biggest single market in the world. In doing so they're admitting to breaking international law so they can throw Northern Ireland under the bus.

So all this talk about the IRA or whatever is meaningless now. They're history. It's not them putting peace in Ireland at risk, it's the British government.

forgottenhills

steddyeddy wrote: »

Both the IRA and the security forces actually. The description covers the activities of both.

Fortunately we had the Good Friday agreement which put an end to all of that.

Unfortunately we are next to a landmass who consists of people so ignorant that they're voting to leave the biggest single market in the world. In doing so they're admitting to breaking international law so they can throw Northern Ireland under the bus.

So all this talk about the IRA or whatever is meaningless now. They're history. It's not them putting peace in Ireland at risk, it's the British government.

Why would peace in Ireland now be at risk because NI exporters to the rest of the UK now don't have to fill in as many forms for their exports? Or because NI businesses now may have different state aid rules applied to business in the EU Single Market?

Its only people who secretly like violence or have an all consuming hate for the British who could even imagine that such changes in trade arrangements should or could risk the return of violence.

Tinytemper

forgottenhills wrote: »

Why would peace in Ireland now be at risk because NI exporters to the rest of the UK now don't have to fill in as many forms for their exports? Or because NI businesses now may have different state aid rules applied to business in the EU Single Market?

Its only people who secretly like violence or have an all consuming hate for the British who could even imagine that such changes in trade arrangements should or could risk the return of violence.

Are you opposed to Irish independence?

steddyeddy

forgottenhills wrote: »

Why would peace in Ireland now be at risk because NI exporters to the rest of the UK now don't have to fill in as many forms for their exports? Or because NI businesses now may have different state aid rules applied to business in the EU Single Market?

Its only people who secretly like violence or have an all consuming hate for the British who could even imagine that such changes in trade arrangements should or could risk the return of violence.

Different trade regulations north and south dictate the need for a hard border. Contravening the circumstances that brought about a hard earned peace.

I didn't mention violence is a certainty. I said peace could be threatened. Anything that will change the status quo of the GFA is a bad thing.

People who are against the British government breaking international law and jeopardising peace in Ireland secretly hate the Brits? The current British government and their supporters have the biggest victim complex I have ever encountered. Maybe they should take responsibility for their actions. This latest action will of course will turn people against the British government but that's their problem.

forgottenhills

Tinytemper wrote: »

Are you opposed to Irish independence?

Ireland (ROI) is independent insofar as a country that has pooled its sovereignty to some extent with the other nations in the EU can be regarded as fully independent. I would like to the keep the ROI's independence to this level as I would not like to see any further political integration of the EU to occur.

But I'm guessing that your question wasn't that sophisticated, it is probably coming from the simpleminded "Brits out" school of thought. And the funny thing is that the knuckedraggers of the PIRA/Sinn Fein and their supporters and the ultra Catholic state fanatics we had in power in this country or a long period of time since 1921, who typically wrapped themselves in the green flag of FF. are the very people who have done the most to stop any possibility of reunification between the Irish and the British people who live on this island.

But luckily now we have more liberal politics and a more progressive state and with that over time will come trust that eventually will lead to a reunification built around a proper sharing and respect for identities. We won't become independent of the "Brits", proper unification will mean that we create a state where 1 million British people who share the island won't feel like a beleaguered minority.

Beechwoodspark

Cork_Guest wrote: »

And some Irish people have too long a memory. It’s time to move on and work towards a better tomorrow, not keep harping on about the Brits this and the Brits that as any reason to stoke up hate.
We were no saints and while the Allies were off fighting a war we stayed ‘neutral’ in, we were in cahoots with the Nazis trying to get them in behind them in exchange for weapons.

Cork guest - Any links for your “in cahoots with the Nazis” rubbish???

Tinytemper

forgottenhills wrote: »

Ireland (ROI) is independent insofar as a country that has pooled its sovereignty to some extent with the other nations in the EU can be regarded as fully independent. I would like to the keep the ROI's independence to this level as I would not like to see any further political integration of the EU to occur.

But I'm guessing that your question wasn't that sophisticated, it is probably coming from the simpleminded "Brits out" school of thought. And the funny thing is that the knuckedraggers of the PIRA/Sinn Fein and their supporters and the ultra Catholic state fanatics we had in power in this country or a long period of time since 1921, who typically wrapped themselves in the green flag of FF. are the very people who have done the most to stop any possibility of reunification between the Irish and the British people who live on this island.

But luckily now we have more liberal politics and a more progressive state and with that over time will come trust that eventually will lead to a reunification built around a proper sharing and respect for identities. We won't become independent of the "Brits", proper unification will mean that we create a state where 1 million British people who share the island won't feel like a beleaguered minority.

All you had to do was say yes. :pac: Ya shinner.

There's far fewer than 1 million British people living on this island by the way.

forgottenhills

steddyeddy wrote: »

Different trade regulations north and south dictate the need for a hard border. Contravening the circumstances that brought about a hard earned peace.

I didn't mention violence is a certainty. I said peace could be threatened. Anything that will change the status quo of the GFA is a bad thing.

People who are against the British government breaking international law and jeopardising peace in Ireland secretly hate the Brits? The current British government and their supporters have the biggest victim complex I have ever encountered. Maybe they should take responsibility for their actions. This latest action will of course will turn people against the British government but that's their problem.

Please define this "hard border" you are so afraid of. Custom checks on goods in transit, perhaps electronically carried out at various designated points like they do on the Norway/Sweden border or Swiss/EU border? I haven't seen those countries threaten violence over customs borders or regulatory checks yet. And there is absolutely not one word in the GFA about infrastructure on the border. You should read it. The reality is that if the UK exits with a no deal then it will be the EU (Ireland) who will be imposing these custom checks on the border to protect the Single Market. It won't be the UK but people who don't read beyond trite slogans like "no hard border" don't seem to understand this.

Spanish Eyes

It is all posturing. Feck them, they deserve to be pilloried. Exceptionalist idiots.

They want to be hated by EU AFAIS. Playing to their own gallery. Gammon style.

forgottenhills

Tinytemper wrote: »

.

There's far fewer than 1 million British people living on this island by the way.

Are you sure about that?

NI demographics from Wikipedia

So the last census there shows the following response on nationality. Over 900k state British of one description or another. 513k state Irish and interestingly 533k say Northern Irish. If there was a border poll how many of those 533k "Northern Irish" might decide that in fact they are more British than Irish? And thats without counting the good number of people in the ROI who would still regard themselves as British, 100 years after the creation of the Irish state.

National identity Respondents
British 876,577
Northern Irish 533,085
Irish 513,390
English, Scottish or Welsh 29,187
Other 61,884

Tinytemper

forgottenhills wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Yes, there are far fewer than a million.

forgottenhills

Tinytemper wrote: »

Yes, there are far fewer than a million.

Great argument, completely ignoring my link to the last census showing that there are 900k British and over 500k declaring as "Northern Irish" many of the latter who will also declare British as their preference over Irish for their family in any border poll that will be held anytime soon.

4068ac1elhodqr

forgottenhills wrote: »

National identity Respondents
British 876,577
Northern Irish 533,085
Irish 513,390
English, Scottish or Welsh 29,187
Other 61,884

If there was a border poll how many of those 533k "Northern Irish" might decide that in fact they are more British than Irish?

That is a good question, however the termonology 'N.Irish' is perhaps (i.e. much more likely than not) a type of specific Irishness (like a Corkonian or Galwegian), than anything to do with Britian (if the British option wasn't picked as default when available), indeed it displays a distancing and slight rejection, thereof.

Tinytemper

forgottenhills wrote: »

Great argument, completely ignoring my link to the last census showing that there are 900k British and over 500k declaring as "Northern Irish" many of the latter who will also declare British as their preference over Irish for their family in any border poll that will be held anytime soon.

What argument? It's very simple, no links required. Great Britain is an island, people from there are British. Ireland is an island, people from there are Irish.

So, there are a number of British people who live in Ireland but nowhere near 1 million.

forgottenhills

Leighton Strong Steak wrote: »

That is a good question, however the termonology 'N.Irish' is perhaps (i.e. much more likely than not) a type of specific Irishness (like a Corkonian or Galwegian), than anything to do with Britian (if the British option wasn't picked as default when available), indeed it displays a distancing and slight rejection, thereof.

Well all I think we can read into the preference for "Northern Irish" over "British" or "Irish" is a desire to avoid the dreary tribalism of both extremes. Perhaps the most that can be said would be that they are a type of "floating voter". But they will include Alliance voters and other moderates and indeed many Eastern European immigrants who don't really care abut the Irish question. It would take a great deal for these floating voters to give up the real or perceived benefits of the British state such as the NHS and employment in the NI state sector. I think we can safely state that most of this category will vote to stay with the UK unless things greatly disimprove for them.

forgottenhills

Tinytemper wrote: »

What argument? It's very simple, no links required. Great Britain is an island, people from there are British. Ireland is an island, people from there are Irish.

So, there are a number of British people who live in Ireland but nowhere near 1 million.

I bet that you wouldn't walk down the Shankill Road and spout that pedantry.

Tinytemper

forgottenhills wrote: »

I bet that you wouldn't walk down the Shankill Road and spout that pedantry.

Pedantry? What are you talking about? People born in Britain are British, people born in Ireland are Irish, were you unaware of this?

AMKC

They the British have no honour. How dare they do this. They will pay for it in the long run with there reputation which will be destroyed and that will take a lot longer to recover from than any money can pay for.

forgottenhills

Tinytemper wrote: »

Pedantry? What are you talking about? People born in Britain are British, people born in Ireland are Irish, were you unaware of this?

It must be time for your homework. Start with history. Or you're simply trolling, either way I am not engaging with this nonsense.

forgottenhills

AMKC wrote: »

They the British have no honour. How dare they do this. They will pay for it in the long run with there reputation which will be destroyed and that will take a lot longer to recover from than any money can pay for.

That's arguable. Will the reputation of the US be forever destroyed because of Trump's antics? I think not. Same with the UK. They are the 5th biggest economy in the world and people will have to do deals with them. All is fair in love, war and trade deals.

Interestingly there was a story in today's online Guardian (no friend of Johnson's government) that suggested that the EU have moved somewhat this week to backtrack a little on their demands over the UK's fish and over the sequencing of talks. So maybe the UK's shock tactics have actually worked a bit from their perspective. (By the way for the avoidance of any doubt I don't agree with their Trump-style negotiating antics).

Tinytemper

forgottenhills wrote: »

It must be time for your homework. Start with history. Or you're simply trolling, either way I am not engaging with this nonsense.

I just taught you something very basic, it's you that needs to do some homework. :pac:

indioblack

steddyeddy wrote: »

Both the IRA and the security forces actually. The description covers the activities of both.

Fortunately we had the Good Friday agreement which put an end to all of that.

Unfortunately we are next to a landmass who consists of people so ignorant that they're voting to leave the biggest single market in the world. In doing so they're admitting to breaking international law so they can throw Northern Ireland under the bus.

So all this talk about the IRA or whatever is meaningless now. They're history. It's not them putting peace in Ireland at risk, it's the British government.

That's the way. Insult an entire population.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

That's the way. Insult an entire population.

I suppose it's preferable to wiping out an entire population?

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

I suppose it's preferable to wiping out an entire population?

Maybe - if I knew what you were talking about.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

Maybe - if I knew what you were talking about.

Looks like you should be doing your homework as well. :pac:

Do some research on the Bengal genocide.

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

Looks like you should be doing your homework as well. :pac:

Do some research on the Bengal genocide.

I know something of it. I still don't see the relevance of the poster's last remark.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

I know something of it. I still don't see the relevance of the poster's last remark.

I was making comment on your remark.

steddyeddy

indioblack wrote: »

That's the way. Insult an entire population.

The majority voted to jeopardise peace in Ireland based on ignorance, propoganda and exceptionalism. I could have said a lot worse.

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

I was making comment on your remark.

I was responding to a post. Nothing I could see in it relevant to the poster's reply.

indioblack

steddyeddy wrote: »

The majority voted to jeopardise peace in Ireland based on ignorance, propoganda and exceptionalism. I could have said a lot worse.

"...a landmass who consists of people so ignorant..."
The reason for my initial post.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

I was responding to a post. Nothing I could see in it relevant to the poster's reply.

Just pointing out some facts. No harm in you gaining some knowledge is there?

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

Just pointing out some facts. No harm in you gaining some knowledge is there?

It would be beneficial to everyone. Except you've not pointed out any facts.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

It would be beneficial to everyone. Except you've not pointed out any facts.

Hmmmmm you appear to be confused. Read again:

Tinytemper wrote: »

I suppose it's preferable to wiping out an entire population?

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

Hmmmmm you appear to be confused. Read again:

That's always a possibility. But the sentence you quote does not contain a fact.

FrancieBrady

The British have form for this kind of behaviour. Remains to be seen if their breaking of international law will work this time. Not looking good.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

That's always a possibility. But the sentence you quote does not contain a fact.

It's all flying over your head. Maybe it's time you went to bed.

forgottenhills

The bots have arrived. Time to leave them to their hate.

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

It's all flying over your head. Maybe it's time you went to bed.

Hardly surprising with the vague, elliptical responses I've received. Follow the sequence of posts. No reference to the eradication of populations or famines in the sub continent by me. My initial post was a response to an accusation of ignorance of an entire population.

Tinytemper

forgottenhills wrote: »

The bots have arrived. Time to leave them to their hate.

Oh the armchair republican is back. :pac:

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

Hardly surprising with the vague, elliptical responses I've received. Follow the sequence of posts. No reference to the eradication of populations or famines in the sub continent by me. My initial post was a response to an accusation of ignorance of an entire population.

You're out of your depth, poor thing.

FrancieBrady

indioblack wrote: »

Hardly surprising with the vague, elliptical responses I've received. Follow the sequence of posts. No reference to the eradication of populations or famines in the sub continent by me. My initial post was a response to an accusation of ignorance of an entire population.

The majority who voted for Brexit were completely ignorant of what it meant. That is why almost 5 years down the line the British are breaking international law again.

What is your problem with that statement?

indioblack

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The majority who voted for Brexit were completely ignorant of what it meant. That is why almost 5 years down the line the British are breaking international law again.

What is your problem with that statement?

That wasn't the statement. Read it again.

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

You're out of your depth, poor thing.

Good thing your here to enlighten me then isn't it.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

Good thing your here to enlighten me then isn't it.

Sure is. You're welcome.

FrancieBrady

indioblack wrote: »

That wasn't the statement. Read it again.

I did and i agree with it. The people who voted for Brexit (The majority) were ignorant on many levels. Leaving the biggest single market is a matter of opinion, but not realising the implications of their vote was certainly ignorance. They quickly found out and are almost 5 yrs trying to get what they want. They are now proposing to break international law again making them a rogue nation.

indioblack

Tinytemper wrote: »

Sure is. You're welcome.

Thanks.

Tinytemper

indioblack wrote: »

Thanks.

indioblack

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I did and i agree with it. The people who voted for Brexit (The majority) were ignorant on many levels. Leaving the biggest single market is a matter of opinion, but not realising the implications of their vote was certainly ignorance. They quickly found out and are almost 5 yrs trying to get what they want. They are now proposing to break international law again making them a rogue nation.

I would hope that the principle of adherence to the rule of law is something most people would agree on.
I voted to remain and believe, as you have said, that many who voted leave didn't appreciate the full implications of exiting the EU. I would like to be proven wrong about this, but most indicators so far are not positive.
The poster claimed that the entire population was ignorant. That was what I objected to. I understood the thrust of the post, but this is a forum - and words have meanings.

FrancieBrady

indioblack wrote: »

I would hope that the principle of adherence to the rule of law is something most people would agree on.
I voted to remain and believe, as you have said, that many who voted leave didn't appreciate the full implications of exiting the EU. I would like to be proven wrong about this, but most indicators so far are not positive.
The poster claimed that the entire population was ignorant. That was what I objected to. I understood the thrust of the post, but this is a forum - and words have meanings.

He/she clearly indicated they were talking about 'those who voted to leave.' as you advised yourself...read it again.

Unfortunately we are next to a landmass who consists of people so ignorant that they're voting to leave the biggest single

Tinytemper

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He/she clearly indicated they were talking about 'those who voted to leave.' as you advised yourself...read it again.

:pac: The young lad is having a bad day, leave him alone.