British to Renege of NI Protocol?

Tokyo

Tinytemper wrote: »

Sure is. You're welcome.

Mod: Your You're sitebanned. Again.

amadangomor

Tiger20 wrote: »

All this reminds me of a sketch in Monty Pythons life of Brian......what have the Roman's ever done for us? Great film. Which is exactly what I was thinking about this situation and the consequences of Britain on our island. As I sit here in my Man Utd top, watching Eastenders, eating my Tesco sourced provisions, I was wishing that if only those f"#cking Brits would just f"#k off, cease to exist, mind their own business or whatever, then all our problems would disappear overnight!

But then I thought about it. Throughout our history with them, the reality of the situation is that we were always the tail, and they were always the dog. But now, for the first time ever, being in the EU means we are on the side of the dog! I think that the physiological slow penny dropping realisation of this and their denial of it is what we are witnessing. The Brits cannot accept they are the tail, the EU is the dog, and they dont know how to cope with it

I

Are the Brexiteers bloody minded fleas then? They want to stay on the tail and have it cut off.

They think a tail on it's own is better off than one attached to the dog even though some have said this won't work.

Damien360

steddyeddy wrote: »

Contrary to what Brexiters think we trade more with Belgium than the UK. Ireland's not dependent on trade with the uk.

Except in agriculture. Overall trade is more with EU but when you get down to small enterprises in ireland, it’s no further than the UK we trade with.

Seems incredible that in all the time Brexit was known to be coming, we haven’t really developed more Agri trade with EU and explored new lines of goods delivery from outside Britain other than via uk land bridge.

declanflynn

Damien360 wrote: »

Except in agriculture. Overall trade is more with EU but when you get down to small enterprises in ireland, it’s no further than the UK we trade with.

Seems incredible that in all the time Brexit was known to be coming, we haven’t really developed more Agri trade with EU and explored new lines of goods delivery from outside Britain other than via uk land bridge.

i have 2 questions which I hope someone can answer
How much longer does it take to transport goods to Europe by direct ferry crossing rather than using the uk landbridge?
And how much more expensive is it?

Tiger20

amadangomor wrote: »

Are the Brexiteers bloody minded fleas then? They want to stay on the tail and have it cut off.

They think a tail on it's own is better off than one attached to the dog even though some have said this won't work.

The Brexiteers might think that, but when the consequences become clear, I suspect the vast majority of the population will see that it is wrong. The problem is they might be too stubborn to admit it. Even though everything they’ve been told by the Brexiteers so far has been either a lie or wrong, they still can’t see it. Easiest negotiations ever. Wrong. Oven ready deal. Wrong. Keep all the benefits without the cost. Wrong. What’s happening now is laying the ground for the blame game. It wasn’t us, it was them. If only people believed, but they won’t. Etc etc

When you look at our relationship with our colonial masters compared to UKs with EU, it’s chalk and cheese. We were attached to a dog that threw us off our lands, reduced us to tenants with no rights, kept us down for 700 years. We all know the history. But being in the EU is completely different....you are a partner with other members in a club....we will see the benefits of this soon enough in negotians

GazzaL

Damien360 wrote: »

Except in agriculture. Overall trade is more with EU but when you get down to small enterprises in ireland, it’s no further than the UK we trade with.

Seems incredible that in all the time Brexit was known to be coming, we haven’t really developed more Agri trade with EU and explored new lines of goods delivery from outside Britain other than via uk land bridge.

You'll find surveys showing Irish business people view Britain as a less important market since this all began. Irish businesses have been working hard to manage Brexit risk. The amount of direct shipping between the continent and Ireland has massively increased.

Junkyard Tom

declanflynn wrote: »

i have 2 questions which I hope someone can answer
How much longer does it take to transport goods to Europe by direct ferry crossing rather than using the uk landbridge?
And how much more expensive is it?

1. On flat seas.
2. Don't know.

steddyeddy

Damien360 wrote: »

Except in agriculture. Overall trade is more with EU but when you get down to small enterprises in ireland, it’s no further than the UK we trade with.

Seems incredible that in all the time Brexit was known to be coming, we haven’t really developed more Agri trade with EU and explored new lines of goods delivery from outside Britain other than via uk land bridge.

That's a good point D. Do you think the Irish government was overly optimistic on a deal being reached?

peasant

declanflynn wrote: »

i have 2 questions which I hope someone can answer
How much longer does it take to transport goods to Europe by direct ferry crossing rather than using the uk landbridge?
And how much more expensive is it?

It takes about a week longer, final price difference not yet known.

It's a bit more complicated than a simple race between one load taking the landbridge and another going all the way by boat.
It depends on capacity and infrastructure. Landbridge traffic is roll-on/roll-off, with specialised vessels going to specialised ports. There aren't that many vessels available and not that many RoRo ports in Europe either. Some traffic will have to be moved to proper container freight, with ports and docks and all that.
Ireland will not have its own fleet of container vessels but will have to fit into existing schedules maybe with one or two extra vessels.
Even if you diverted all current ferries between Ireland and UK to a direct route (with exception of the fast ferries of course), due to the longer route there would be less sailings, so capacity issues again.

I'm not in the shipping industry, so I don't know exact details or figures...but let's just say, where I work (100% export and about 95% further than just the UK) we're currently building a week's worth of customer demand as a Brexit bank to avoid the worst of potential disruption to customer schedules.

But we don't make perishable goods, and we have the comfort of working with reasonably long term forecasts.

Weather, especially during autumn and winter storms, will throw in an extra bit of unpredictability as well.

Edgware

peasant wrote: »

It takes about a week longer, final price difference not yet known.

It's a bit more complicated than a simple race between one load taking the landbridge and another going all the way by boat.
It depends on capacity and infrastructure. Landbridge traffic is roll-on/roll-off, with specialised vessels going to specialised ports. There aren't that many vessels available and not that many RoRo ports in Europe either. Some traffic will have to be moved to proper container freight, with ports and docks and all that.
Ireland will not have its own fleet of container vessels but will have to fit into existing schedules maybe with one or two extra vessels.
Even if you diverted all current ferries between Ireland and UK to a direct route (with exception of the fast ferries of course), due to the longer route there would be less sailings, so capacity issues again.

I'm not in the shipping industry, so I don't know exact details or figures...but let's just say, where I work (100% export and about 95% further than just the UK) we're currently building a week's worth of customer demand as a Brexit bank to avoid the worst of potential disruption to customer schedules.

But we don't make perishable goods, and we have the comfort of working with reasonably long term forecasts.

Weather, especially during autumn and winter storms, will throw in an extra bit of unpredictability as well.

I have seen mushrooms in Sainsbury, North London which states that they were picked the day before in Meath, Ireland. That is very possible as the picking is an ongoing process.
Lorry leaves Meath at 5pm, on the Holyhead ferry at 7 , in Wales for 12 and in the Sainsbury distribution centre London for 6a.m. Then on to the various stores shelves for mid morning.
Landbridge say to BrBrusse/Paris would be another 8 and sea to Le Harvre and then to Brussels/Paris16. Not really an option for mushrooms, lettuce in competition against French, Belgian or Dutch producers

Galwayguy35

Tiger20 wrote: »

All this reminds me of a sketch in Monty Pythons life of Brian......what have the Roman's ever done for us? Great film. Which is exactly what I was thinking about this situation and the consequences of Britain on our island. As I sit here in my Man Utd top, watching Eastenders, eating my Tesco sourced provisions, I was wishing that if only those f"#cking Brits would just f"#k off, cease to exist, mind their own business or whatever, then all our problems would disappear overnight!

But then I thought about it. Throughout our history with them, the reality of the situation is that we were always the tail, and they were always the dog. But now, for the first time ever, being in the EU means we are on the side of the dog! I think that the physiological slow penny dropping realisation of this and their denial of it is what we are witnessing. The Brits cannot accept they are the tail, the EU is the dog, and they dont know how to cope with it

I

We are seen as the annoying small neighbour by the Brits and they could make life very hard for us down the road but don't for a second think the main EU block are too bothered about us either.

They made the Government here their bitch 10 years ago by saddling us with a debt no other country would have accepted so they would throw us under the bus again if it suited.

Fuascailteoir

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We are seen as the annoying small neighbour by the Brits and they could make life very hard for us down the road but don't for a second think the main EU block are too bothered about us either.

They made the Government here their bitch 10 years ago by saddling us with a debt no other country would have accepted so they would throw us under the bus again if it suited.

Any debt taken on in this country was lent into this economy. The main issue was lack of regulation by Irish authorities over a decade or two. The financial regulator, central bank, banks, auditing firms and government are to blame

Tiger20

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Any debt taken on in this country was lent into this economy. The main issue was lack of regulation by Irish authorities over a decade or two. The financial regulator, central bank, banks, auditing firms and government are to blame

Exactly. It's easy to blame others for our situation, but at the end of the day we got ourselves into that mess, it was not a global financial situation(as many other countries did not have need a bailout).

In the current situation re Brexit, I am not naive enough to think that the EU would let the economy of all other countries suffer to help the Irish. But this is not about us, it's about a much bigger picture in which, if the UK did win, would mean the end of the EU in the longer term, so that will not be happening.

Basically, the big dog will win

Junkyard Tom

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

don't for a second think the main EU block are too bothered about us either.

Eurosceptics have been muted by the slow train-wreck of British withdrawal from the EU and Ireland is in the process of providing test-case for EU solidarity.

The EU has to come through on this one.

Galwayguy35

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Eurosceptics have been muted by the slow train-wreck of British withdrawal from the EU and Ireland is in the process of providing test-case for EU solidarity.

The EU has to come through on this one.

I'm happy to be wrong if this continues to be the case.

Physically though we will be cut off from the rest of Europe and more reliant of good relations with the Brits than the main block will be.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Eurosceptics have been muted by the slow train-wreck of British withdrawal from the EU and Ireland is in the process of providing test-case for EU solidarity.

The EU has to come through on this one.

Exactly and we have to be unequivocal on who we stand with. It may be rough for a while but a relationship with 26 other open and forward thinking economies is our future, not some hatdoffing sense of obligation to a fracturing union navel gazing about the long ago end of it's empire

New Era

I watch a keen watcher this morning to the Andrew Marr show on the BBC this morning. If anyone was in any doubt what side the Beeb are on 're the brexit debate then it was as clear as day. The BBC should be renamed as the British Brexit Corporation. Coveney absolutely humiliated Marr despite the presenter constantly interrupting him and not allowing the Cork TD any time to finish his point.

Compared to Tory brexiteer Robert Buckland, the justice secretary, that's the type of character that the EU and Ireland have to deal with. The Boris way.

Worryingly from the British Labour party side, Rachel Reeves....what a waffler. When strong leadership is required for the leading opposition party, it's not forthcoming. Surprised by Starmer though. He worked in NI for 5 years, but is giving the provocative nasty Tories, the benefit of the doubt and may support some elements of the this illegal internal market bill!

I always felt that there was an intelligence deficit between UK politicians compared to Irish TD's. What I saw this morning confirmed that view, but what I was surprised was how big the difference is. We may despise our politicians but at least they have a fair bit more about them, then what we think and certainly puts those politicians across the Irish sea to shame.

Edgware

New Era wrote: »

I watch a keen watcher this morning to the Andrew Marr show on the BBC this morning. If anyone was in any doubt what side the Beeb are on 're the brexit debate then it was as clear as day. The BBC should be renamed as the British Brexit Corporation. Coveney absolutely humiliated Marr despite the presenter constantly interrupting him and not allowing the Cork TD any time to finish his point.

Compared to Tory brexiteer Robert Buckland, the justice secretary, that's the type of character that the EU and Ireland have to deal with. The Boris way.

Worryingly from the British Labour party side, Rachel Reeves....what a waffler. When strong leadership is required for the leading opposition party, it's not forthcoming. Surprised by Starmer though. He worked in NI for 5 years, but is giving the provocative nasty Tories, the benefit of the doubt and may support some elements of the this illegal internal market bill!

I always felt that there was an intelligence deficit between UK politicians compared to Irish TD's. What I saw this morning confirmed that view, but what I was surprised was how big the difference is. We may despise our politicians but at least they have a fair bit more about them, then what we think and certainly puts those politicians across the Irish sea to shame.

Many of the UK. constituencies have such large majorities for either Tory or Labour that the party could run Bozo the Clown and he would be elected. That system has allowed not so bright people to hold down seats for years. Due to Corbyn's incompetence and contempt for ordinary workers the Tories breached the "Red Wall" in the North of England. It wont take much for Boris to buy off these voters especially when its is another gom leading Labour

Dyr

Edgware wrote: »

Many of the UK. constituencies have such large majorities for either Tory or Labour that the party could run Bozo the Clown and he would be elected. That system has allowed not so bright people to hold down seats for years. Due to Corbyn's incompetence and contempt for ordinary workers the Tories breached the "Red Wall" in the North of England. It wont take much for Boris to buy off these voters especially when its is another gom leading Labour

The red wall was crumbling long before corbyn finally took a wrecking ball too

loughside

I see mouthpiece McEntee on the box slabbering profusely....

Dear Helen you have worked in a biased, one sided manner to destroy the rights of Unionists in the North. If we get a trade deal all this melts away. If we dont say goodbye to half your beef and diary industries and about a third of your fishing fleet. Bugger us about enough and you may find it takes a very long time for your freight to pass through UK and EU customs

But if course what you dare not admit is that little Ireland has sold itself into European servitude, how many times have they themselves broken international law and ordered you to vote again??. As Brussels forcibly told you at the start of negotiations its not your border anymore its the EUs border

FrancieBrady

loughside wrote: »

I see mouthpiece McEntee on the box slabbering profusely....

Dear Helen you have worked in a biased, one sided manner to destroy the rights of Unionists in the North. If we get a trade deal all this melts away. If we dont say goodbye to half your beef and diary industries and about a third of your fishing fleet. Bugger us about enough and you may find it takes a very long time for your freight to pass through UK and EU customs

But if course what you dare not admit is that little Ireland has sold itself into European servitude, how many times have they themselves broken international law and ordered you to vote again??. As Brussels forcibly told you at the start of negotiations its not your border anymore its the EUs border

What 'Unionist rights'?
Do they have some right over and above everyone elses?

loughside

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What 'Unionist rights'?
Do they have some right over and above everyone elses?

If the `everyone else` you talk about is a foreign country, ie ROI or some unelected unaccountable cabal in Brussels then Yes of course it does.


Maybe you`ve got too used to the EU telling your country what to do, when to do it and how often?? !!

FrancieBrady

loughside wrote: »

If the `everyone else` you talk about is a foreign country, ie ROI or some unelected unaccountable cabal in Brussels then Yes of course it does.


Maybe you`ve got too used to the EU telling your country what to do, when to do it and how often?? !!

Your government signed the WA...not the EU or us.
Take your grievances up with them

Loyalists will always find a way to shift blame in the face of anything, it's quite impressive really. London could tell them to play in traffic and it would be someone else's fault.

donspeekinglesh

New Era wrote: »

Surprised by Starmer though. He worked in NI for 5 years, but is giving the provocative nasty Tories, the benefit of the doubt and may support some elements of the this illegal internal market bill!

I think Starmer is playing the long game, for himself and his party. What's that saying about not interrupting your enemy while they're making mistakes?

New Era wrote: »

I always felt that there was an intelligence deficit between UK politicians compared to Irish TD's. What I saw this morning confirmed that view, but what I was surprised was how big the difference is. We may despise our politicians but at least they have a fair bit more about them, then what we think and certainly puts those politicians across the Irish sea to shame.

I think it shows that the British public school and Oxbridge education (at least outside of the hard sciences) is not all it's cracked up to be. Some of the Tory MPs are genuinely thick, and know very little about their own country.

FrancieBrady

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Loyalists will always find a way to shift blame in the face of anything, it's quite impressive really. London could tell them to play in traffic and it would be someone else's fault.

They are physically building Irish sea border infrastructure and this guy is blaming Helen McEntee and taunting that the EU is telling us what to do.

MadYaker

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are physically building Irish sea border infrastructure and this guy is blaming Helen McEntee and taunting that the EU is telling us what to do.

It's an interesting take on the situation, ill give him that!

An Claidheamh

loughside wrote: »

I see mouthpiece McEntee on the box slabbering profusely....

Dear Helen you have worked in a biased, one sided manner to destroy the rights of Unionists in the North. If we get a trade deal all this melts away. If we dont say goodbye to half your beef and diary industries and about a third of your fishing fleet. Bugger us about enough and you may find it takes a very long time for your freight to pass through UK and EU customs

Dear Loughside, we are not Helen. This is Boards.ie

Also, there are no such things as Unionist Rights.

An Claidheamh

loughside wrote: »

As Brussels forcibly told you at the start of negotiations its not your border anymore its the EUs border

I'm pretty sure everyone knew that already.

If Brit nationalists didn't know, it was probably said to them in a normal tone of voice, as opposed to forcibly ...

Funny though, your British masters are giving you orders to go into "European servitude", Arlene Foster and Ian Paisley JR and the DUP are organising it, unionists have accepted British orders and servitiude for literally centuries and whose fault is it? .......


...The TD for Meath East

An Claidheamh

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

I think Starmer is playing the long game, for himself and his party. What's that saying about not interrupting your enemy while they're making mistakes?


I think it shows that the British public school and Oxbridge education (at least outside of the hard sciences) is not all it's cracked up to be. Some of the Tory MPs are genuinely thick, and know very little about their own country.

Like saying travel broadens the mind.

But then noticing, the rough "Ex Pats" ex British army types who live in Spain don't seem so cultured after all.


There is a strain of odd behavior around those elite types, sometimes wrongly called "eccentricity", no matter what high end financial hedgefund board investment job they have, you could mistake them for having never left their own village